Mark Boucher

Anyone seen this yet?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-south-africa-2012/content/current/story/571691.html

It's a huge shame to lose such a key player just before a key series, to something so unfortunate. Hopefully he can make a full recovery in time and keep playing for SA.

See discussion in Somerset v SA thread (in county cricket section)

Tsoilekile is the next line as specalist keeper, however AB may take the gloves..

After many eye problems, much surgery and periods of blindness and ongoing struggles I know what messed up vision does to you. I really hope they can sort Boucher out and save his sight in that eye. I wish him all the very best.

trebellbobaggins wrote:After many eye problems, much surgery and periods of blindness and ongoing struggles I know what messed up vision does to you. I really hope they can sort Boucher out and save his sight in that eye. I wish him all the very best.

Absolutely. He's been a fantastic servant to SA cricket. Unfortunately, given that he's 35 now, I imagine that this will end his career. I would imagine that keeping at international level must be incredibly hard with diminished vision in one eye. I hope I'm wrong, but, if not, Boucher can look back on his career with pride.

CF wrote:Tsolekile is the next line as specalist keeper, however AB may take the gloves..

I would prefer Heino Kuhn, he is only 28 and has a first class batting average of 44. Tsolekile is almost 32 and with a batting average of 29 not near as accomplished as Heino.

However it must be said Tsolekile is a gutsy player who has improved his batting over the last few years.

biltongbek wrote:

CF wrote:Tsolekile is the next line as specalist keeper, however AB may take the gloves..

I would prefer Heino Kuhn, he is only 28 and has a first class batting average of 44. Tsolekile is almost 32 and with a batting average of 29 not near as accomplished as Heino.

However it must be said Tsolekile is a gutsy player who has improved his batting over the last few years.

Looking at the stats Kuhn would seem the obvious option. Would SA really want Tsolekile in when 5 down and then a tail of Philander, Steyn, Morkel and Tahir? I do have a feeling that they might go with de Villiers as 'keeper, allowing Duminy to bat 7. Wouldn't be my choice but is definitely possible if they don't want to expose a debutant.

Look to be honest tsolekiles is a nuggety fellow, he has saved the Lions a couple of times with rear guard actions, but his age for me is the big deciding factor, how many years can he play? Max three and then Kuhn is once again too old.

I say go for a youngster.

Apologies if this has already been flagged but I've just read that Mark Boucher has to date taken 999 international (Tests and one dayers) dismissals.

Whilst his sight is clearly the most important thing, it will be disappointing and so frustrating if (as sadly seems likely) he is unable to add one more to that total.

guildfordbat wrote:Apologies if this has already been flagged but I've just read that Mark Boucher has to date taken 999 international (Tests and one dayers) dismissals.

Whilst his sight is clearly the most important thing, it will be disappointing and so frustrating if (as sadly seems likely) he is unable to add one more to that total.

Also adds to the mystique of the number 99 in cricket - Bradman 99.99 average etc. Of course Murali could easily have finished with 799 wickets, and Tendulkar was on 99 100s for a long time.

I think it adds a lot to cricket to end short of a magical number, people are more likely to remember Boucher for having 999 dismissals than 1000.

It is the oddity of the number that attracks attention.

Makes them more human I guess

What about Dane Vilas?

On the mystique of numbers and the cruelty of life / cricket, Malcolm Nash is worth a mention.

He's best known now for being the unfortunate bowler who was hit for six sixes in an over by Garry Sobers. However, he was generally a good county pro who gave Glamorgan reliable and loyal service for seventeen years. He never took 100 first class wickets in a season but nearly always took in excess of 50. Once he had reached 500 after about 8 or 9 years, he set himself the target of capturing 1,000 for his beloved county. He had reached 993 at the end of the 1983 season when Glamorgan chose not to renew his contract and showed him the door.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:What about Dane Vilas?

Yes, I completely forgot about him, he is actually in the extended group already.

I notice Kallis is "rtd hurt" on the scorecard, is that a genuine injury too or just him getting bored?

Hes now been forced to retire from international cricket

It seems Boucher has decided to retire.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I notice Kallis is "rtd hurt" on the scorecard, is that a genuine injury too or just him getting bored?

THe cricinfo live score card only says retired not out, I assume they want the other batsmen to get time in the middle.

biltongbek wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I notice Kallis is "rtd hurt" on the scorecard, is that a genuine injury too or just him getting bored?

THe cricinfo live score card only says retired not out, I assume they want the other batsmen to get time in the middle.

Thats what Id assumed, but surely retiring means sacrificing your wicket...whereas retiring hurt allows you to return? So if hes "retired not out" that must be for an injury, albeit a ridiculous one like a broken finger nail or needing a long poo.

He retired not out to spend time with his best mate Boucher.

Sad to see him having to retire. Kirsten has said that AB will keep at The Oval - interesting.

I will pen some more words on Boucher when I get an opportunity to do so.

Real shame, however the main focus is that he regains sight in his eye, and makes a full and speedy recovery!

Farewell Mark Boucher, legend of the game.

A bloody shame that Boucher has to retire, no sportsman or woman should ever have to retire due to injury. Hopefully, he'll make a full recovery and his surgery goes well.

yup bloody shame. Not good to have your career ruined by vision problems, i've learned that the hard way.

But in the end you come round to the fact that keeping what's left is far more important ; your health keeps you happier in the end.

Best of luck to him.

What a legend Boucher is.

Hope he gets the send off he deserves

From his twitter:

Ur support for me has brought me to my knees!I can't thank u all enough.Gonna b a tough time 4 me regarding my eye but I will pull through!

Retirement had 2 be called bit early,but thnks 2 EVERYONE 4 all the good times and tough times!U have all contributed and I'm truly blessed!

Last but not least I wanna wish my Protea family an enjoyable tour of UK.Gonna be tough but good skill boys!No options!!Will be watching!

What a terrible shame, I was rather looking forward to his farewell tour. A great service he provided to South African cricket, and I always found him to be one of those mentally tough, nuggety batsman that managed to hang around just when you had the tail in your sights..

However, I actually think South Africa will be stronger for his injury. Yes, they are hoping that AB can maintain his form with the bat whilst having the added burden of keeping, and yes in AB they are losing a terrific fielder, but I've always been an admirer of JP Duminy and, quite frankly, the prospect of him batting at 7 makes the South Africa batting line-up all the more ominous to me.

Yes, it will most definitely improve or batting, obviously dependant on JP showing and maintaining some form.

Jp also offers some bowling to graeme smith as well.

Unbelievable injury. Gutted we won't see him in the forthcoming series, hope to get you back playing soon, Bouch.

shame...

Really sad way to retire

With Duminy almost certainly playing, do we think SA could leave out Tahir and play de Lange if it isn't going to spin? They did so in the last Test in New Zealand.

That way they'd say we're throwing all of our batsmen and seamers at you - how can you cope with that.

Remember that Duminy is Graeme Swann's bunny though

Shelsey I would prefer Tahir not to play. He is supposedly an attacking spinner, yet his strike rate is far from acceptable, I would rather add de Lange. We have won many tests even in seem unfriendly tests with a seem attack.

I'm not sure I'd go with the four seamers myself, but just a thought and a distinct possibility.

Some words on Boucher:

That he played 147 Tests is in itself remarkable, particularly given that he was (often unfairly) questioned for large parts of his career. For the first few years people saw his glovework as a weakness, but the selectors stuck with him. In recent years South Africans have often criticised the continued selection of a batsman averaging in the low 30s at number seven when AB can keep wicket. Every time they lost it seemed to be his place which came under scrutiny though, to their credit, SA stuck with him.

As a 'keeper he wasn't a flawless genius as people say Alan Knott was, or in a modern context James Foster. But by the middle part of his career - ironically when he was bafflingly dropped for a few Tests for AB and Tsolekile (some said quota inspired) - he was an extremely competent gloveman, just as Prior has become for England.

As a batsman his stats are more in line with the 'keepers of the past than those of his generation. At a tad above 30 he is well off the pace set by Gilchrist, Prior, Haddin and Dhoni amongst others. But, again like some of the older 'keepers, that fails to convey that he was actually a very effective batsman, often reserving his best for tight situations. Highlights include getting SA across the line in the 438 game.

A very sad way to go for anyone, although in some ways it is better that this happens to somebody who was retiring anyway than ruins the entire career of a younger player.

Tsoikele has been named as replacement, however Kirsten has said that he isnt gurantted to play..

seems to suggest that AB will keep in at least the first test.

Shelsey93 wrote:I'm not sure I'd go with the four seamers myself, but just a thought and a distinct possibility.

Some words on Boucher:

That he played 147 Tests is in itself remarkable, particularly given that he was (often unfairly) questioned for large parts of his career. For the first few years people saw his glovework as a weakness, but the selectors stuck with him. In recent years South Africans have often criticised the continued selection of a batsman averaging in the low 30s at number seven when AB can keep wicket. Every time they lost it seemed to be his place which came under scrutiny though, to their credit, SA stuck with him.

As a 'keeper he wasn't a flawless genius as people say Alan Knott was, or in a modern context James Foster. But by the middle part of his career - ironically when he was bafflingly dropped for a few Tests for AB and Tsolekile (some said quota inspired) - he was an extremely competent gloveman, just as Prior has become for England.

As a batsman his stats are more in line with the 'keepers of the past than those of his generation. At a tad above 30 he is well off the pace set by Gilchrist, Prior, Haddin and Dhoni amongst others. But, again like some of the older 'keepers, that fails to convey that he was actually a very effective batsman, often reserving his best for tight situations. Highlights include getting SA across the line in the 438 game.

A very sad way to go for anyone, although in some ways it is better that this happens to somebody who was retiring anyway than ruins the entire career of a younger player.

Shelsey,

With regards to his stats cricinfo have an article up today which highlights his decline from a peak around 2004 and more dramatically the last couple of years. They also ran a piece a few months back looking at possible replacements for him and why noone has ever really been able to challenge him. It seems SA have failed to really plan for his retirement which was going to have come sooner rather than later anyway, although noone wouldve wanted or predicted this.
Looking at Tsokekiles record theres nothing to suggest hes anything more than a stop gap, and I think the theory that AB will take the gloves is correct. It does give SA formidable batting depth especially as having Kallis means they have no need to play 5 bowlers.
Whilst AB might not be as good a gloveman as Boucher he is competent, and it does make SAs side look quite frightening. In some ways Boucher was a weak link in the current side.

biltongbek wrote:Shelsey I would prefer Tahir not to play. He is supposedly an attacking spinner, yet his strike rate is far from acceptable, I would rather add de Lange. We have won many tests even in seem unfriendly tests with a seem attack.

You definitely need a specialist spinner at The Oval. But if he doesnt do well there, then its pointless to pick him at Headingley, which is a spinners' graveyard.

I think De Lange is a serious talent but a bit raw at the moment. Can tend to bowl short and wide deliveries and shift the momentum. One for the future surely but atm, I'd have Tsotsobe ahead of him. He is not going to rip through our line up but offers good control. The likes of Strauss and to a less extent KP have tended to struggle a bit against left arm seamers in the past.

Sad way for a great career to end. Keeping can be a dangerous business though, especially when up close to the stumps. I was fortunate never to be hit in the eye, but I've got plenty of scar tissue inside my mouth from being hit by both the toe end of a bat and a ball that deflected off the top of the stumps.

Not sure Boucher would be considered subjectively as a true great keeper batsman (especially by comparison with some contemporaries), but he certainly was a very good player (competent keeper and a nuggety batsman who tended to shine in a crisis) and an exceptional servant to South African cricket.

I wonder if in time the 999 dismissals will develop something of the legendary status that Bradman's 99.94 average has - i.e. that it will be remembered more fondly for the 'failure' to pass the landmark number than would have been the case if he'd reached say 1017.

And can I sign off by wishing Boucher good luck for a speedy and full recovery.

To me Boucher was never going to be the best wicket keeper, he never had the flamboyancy of the Gilchrist bat, he never had the nous of Healy behind the wiicket, but his longevity outlasted both.

To me he was a solid reliable gu much in the same mould as his best mate Kallis, their true value will only really been valued by their countrymen.

Although I can say Kallis in the last couple of years has strated gaining some recognition.

I enjoyed Boucher's low key personality, I think for him there are great memories, of all SA wicket keepers, he stood behind the stumps of most of our greatest fast bowlers ever and in recent times our new generation.

The list is rather long.
Donald
Pollock
Fanie
Brett Schultz
Dale Steyn
Morne Morkel
Vernon Philander
etc.

Really sorry to see this and hope he makes a good recovery. Maybe not the greatest keeper or batsmen, but a great competitor and servant to SA cricket. Seems to have been around forever, like Kallis.

All the best Bouch, hoping for a full recovery. A true South African sporting legend

biltongbek wrote:To me Boucher was never going to be the best wicket keeper, he never had the flamboyancy of the Gilchrist bat, he never had the nous of Healy behind the wiicket, but his longevity outlasted both.

To me he was a solid reliable gu much in the same mould as his best mate Kallis, their true value will only really been valued by their countrymen.

Although I can say Kallis in the last couple of years has strated gaining some recognition.

I enjoyed Boucher's low key personality, I think for him there are great memories, of all SA wicket keepers, he stood behind the stumps of most of our greatest fast bowlers ever and in recent times our new generation.

The list is rather long.
Donald
Pollock
Fanie
Brett Schultz
Dale Steyn
Morne Morkel
Vernon Philander
etc.

What about that Quentin De Kock youngster ?
Isnt he from your neck of the woods

Mark Boucher actually does have 1000 dismissals in international cricket

Test: 532 catches/23 stumpings = 555
ODI's: 403 catches/22 stumpings = 425
T20's: 18 catches/1 stumping = 19
Total 999 as wicket keeper.

But he has the test wicket of Dwayne Bravo as a bowler, he took this wicket at St Johns in April 2005

So probably the most unique record.

Oddly cricinfo state he has 998. I can only assume their writer is in the "World XI doesnt count" camp.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Oddly cricinfo state he has 998. I can only assume their writer is in the "World XI doesnt count" camp.

The total on his Cricinfo profile comes to 999.

He took two dismissals in that Super Test - Ponting and Watson both caught behind off Flintoff. Sangakkara kept for the World XI in the ODIs.

However, to add to the confusion I reckon Boucher played some official ODIs for an Africa XI against an Asian XI.

Shelsey93 wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Oddly cricinfo state he has 998. I can only assume their writer is in the "World XI doesnt count" camp.

The total on his Cricinfo profile comes to 999.

He took two dismissals in that Super Test - Ponting and Watson both caught behind off Flintoff. Sangakkara kept for the World XI in the ODIs.

However, to add to the confusion I reckon Boucher played some official ODIs for an Africa XI against an Asian XI.

On his profile and articles cricinfo quotes 998 . They have the world XI match on his stats as well as the Afro Asia cup games, so they are all included in the 999 figure you get by adding everything up, adding the bowling wicket makes 1000. Im just not sure where this 998 comes from.

Of course if you include bowling then Murali far surpasses him, and 1000 dismissals is nothing special.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Shelsey93 wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Oddly cricinfo state he has 998. I can only assume their writer is in the "World XI doesnt count" camp.

The total on his Cricinfo profile comes to 999.

He took two dismissals in that Super Test - Ponting and Watson both caught behind off Flintoff. Sangakkara kept for the World XI in the ODIs.

However, to add to the confusion I reckon Boucher played some official ODIs for an Africa XI against an Asian XI.

On his profile and articles cricinfo quotes 998 . They have the world XI match on his stats as well as the Afro Asia cup games, so they are all included in the 999 figure you get by adding everything up, adding the bowling wicket makes 1000. Im just not sure where this 998 comes from.

Of course if you include bowling then Murali far surpasses him, and 1000 dismissals is nothing special.

I guess not.

Boucher took 1 catch in the outfield, hence it being 998 dismissals as keeper, rather than 999.

Fists of Fury wrote:Boucher took 1 catch in the outfield, hence it being 998 dismissals as keeper, rather than 999.

Bingo, well done. Makes sense.

And one wicket as a bowler. So 1000 dismissals

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:And one wicket as a bowler. So 1000 dismissals

Which as we pointed out is well behind the record, so although it sounds better than 998 isnt that great an achievement in the grand scheme of things.