New season, new Edinburgh team

by **George Carlin** Wed 18 Jul 2012, 7:48 pm

First topic message reminder :

Second of the Scottish team's modest pre-season focus.

As before, incumbent or probably first choice in bold, other options in brackets:

1. Jacobson (Yapp, Walker, Allan, Cringle)
2. Ford (Titterell, Turner)
3. Nel (Cross, Niven, Hislop)
4. van der Westhuizen (Parker, Gilchrist)
5. Cox (Turnbull, McAlpine)
6. Denton (McInally)
7. Rennie (Grant)
8. Talei (Basilaia, McInally)

9. Rees (Leck, Laidlaw, Black)
10. Laidlaw (Leonard, Hunter, Tonks)
11. T. Visser (Penn, Farndale)
12. Scott (King, Houston)
13. De Luca (Atiga, Tonks, Cairns)
14. Jones (Fife)
15. Brown (Atiga, Tonks, S. Visser, Cairns)

7s players not included (e.g. Clyne) and not all EDPs may be there. As with Glasgow, lots of known unknowns.

Potential problems are obvious - real lack of potential grunt in the boiler room, real drop in quality between first XV and their replacements and 9 may be a weakness.

The backs have an unbelievable amount of potential - the sheer speed of Visser, Brown, Jones, Fife and Farndale is extraordinary. Can Back bring the forwards up to speed and can the backs learn to tackle once in a while? Can potentially the best back row in the Robocop get even better?

Players to watch: Nel, Atiga, Leonard, Farndale and Basilaia.

by **George Carlin** Wed 08 Aug 2012, 12:16 pm

reallybored wrote:Guscott smoked like a chimney and was one of the finest centres the home nations have ever produced.

Can someone give me the skinny on Farndale; doesn't look the biggest, doesn't look electric quick and doesn't seem to have a Williams-esque step. Yet he seems to score plenty of tries?

ReallyBored - start watching this at about 2.10:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr6qSTx5wHk

Farndale runs very smart supporting lines and frequently scores because he pops up in the right place at the right time a lot.

Whenever I've seen him, he always reminds me of JD2 - low leg lift, short steps which I think is deceptive - he's quicker than he looks, just like Davies.

by reallybored Wed 08 Aug 2012, 12:37 pm

Saw a couple of his tries during the JWC, seemed to be Bennett would make a break then he'd finish in the corner.

Is he better than Jones?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 08 Aug 2012, 12:55 pm

reallybored wrote:Saw a couple of his tries during the JWC, seemed to be Bennett would make a break then he'd finish in the corner.

Is he better than Jones?

rb, OMG, don't tell fES that, he'll have a fit!

by funnyExiledScot Wed 08 Aug 2012, 1:51 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
reallybored wrote:Saw a couple of his tries during the JWC, seemed to be Bennett would make a break then he'd finish in the corner.

Is he better than Jones?
rb, OMG, don't tell fES that, he'll have a fit!

I suppose it was only a matter of time before Mark Bennett was given the credit for Farndale's outstanding finishing. Obviously Bennett didn't actually play in several of the matches in which Farndale was scoring tries, but I've no doubt the mere thought of Bennett's brilliance in the back of Farndale's mind is what inspired him to cross the whitewash in a poor emulation of the great man, sorry boy, himself.

thumbsup

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 08 Aug 2012, 1:52 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
reallybored wrote:Saw a couple of his tries during the JWC, seemed to be Bennett would make a break then he'd finish in the corner.

Is he better than Jones?
rb, OMG, don't tell fES that, he'll have a fit!

I suppose it was only a matter of time before Mark Bennett was given the credit for Farndale's outstanding finishing. Obviously Bennett didn't actually play in several of the matches in which Farndale was scoring tries, but I've no doubt the mere thought of Bennett's brilliance in the back of Farndale's mind is what inspired him to cross the whitewash in a poor emulation of the great man, sorry boy, himself.

by reallybored Wed 08 Aug 2012, 2:17 pm

I only saw his three tries from the Australia and Italy matches with those three tries all featured Bennett making the initial break and Crawley then delivering the scoring pass against Australia.

His second finish against Italy was impressive, didn't look like he had much room to manoeuvre so just bulldozed his way over the Italian fullback.

by **George Carlin** Wed 08 Aug 2012, 3:45 pm

reallybored wrote:Saw a couple of his tries during the JWC, seemed to be Bennett would make a break then he'd finish in the corner.

Is he better than Jones?

Jury is out. Mind you, Jones is only down as having scored 2 tries in league time in each of the last 2 seasons which isn't a great strike rate for a winger, especially when his Timness is dotting them down for fun. Wouldn't be all that surprised to see Jones shuffled around a bit.

by Captain_Sensible Wed 08 Aug 2012, 3:58 pm

George Carlin wrote:
reallybored wrote:Saw a couple of his tries during the JWC, seemed to be Bennett would make a break then he'd finish in the corner.

Is he better than Jones?
Jury is out. Mind you, Jones is only down as having scored 2 tries in league time in each of the last 2 seasons which isn't a great strike rate for a winger, especially when his Timness is dotting them down for fun. Wouldn't be all that surprised to see Jones shuffled around a bit.

Jones has scored a fair few in the HC, don’t forget. He’s a good player, and the 14 shirt is certainly his to lose. From what I’ve seen, he often makes the initial break that sets up the score (not unlike Mark ‘The Messiah’ Bennett!). I’d certainly like to see him progress further – his defence needs to tighten up if he’s to play for Scotland consistently. Farndale should push him pretty far, I’d certainly give Farndale the benefit of the doubt over someone like Penn.

Someone I haven’t seen or heard much of is Greig Tonks. Aside from being named after a character in Harry Potter, can anyone spill the beans? Good, bad, decent? Best position, etc etc. I know he’s Scots qualified, but is he a realistic contender for international honours?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 08 Aug 2012, 4:00 pm

Captain_Sensible wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
reallybored wrote:Saw a couple of his tries during the JWC, seemed to be Bennett would make a break then he'd finish in the corner.

Is he better than Jones?
Jury is out. Mind you, Jones is only down as having scored 2 tries in league time in each of the last 2 seasons which isn't a great strike rate for a winger, especially when his Timness is dotting them down for fun. Wouldn't be all that surprised to see Jones shuffled around a bit.

Jones has scored a fair few in the HC, don’t forget. He’s a good player, and the 14 shirt is certainly his to lose. From what I’ve seen, he often makes the initial break that sets up the score (not unlike Mark ‘The Messiah’ Bennett!). I’d certainly like to see him progress further – his defence needs to tighten up if he’s to play for Scotland consistently. Farndale should push him pretty far, I’d certainly give Farndale the benefit of the doubt over someone like Penn.

Someone I haven’t seen or heard much of is Greig Tonks. Aside from being named after a character in Harry Potter, can anyone spill the beans? Good, bad, decent? Best position, etc etc. I know he’s Scots qualified, but is he a realistic contender for international honours?

I am liking this Very Happy

by reallybored Wed 08 Aug 2012, 4:15 pm

Liked the look of Jones but feel like he needs a bit more meat on his bones for International rugby. Has a great work ethic and regularly popped up in the right place at the right time.

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

by **RDW** Wed 08 Aug 2012, 4:40 pm

I remember that when we signed Tonks the Saints fans said he was a decent player but not overly sad to see him go.

Can't see him pushing for Scotland and realistically he will only be squad cover for us, but he isn't that old so you never know.

Jones is another player who has had a good holiday and a full pre season so will be in great shape and hopefully ready to motor on.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 08 Aug 2012, 10:14 pm

I think we'll see a lot more of Jones. He's a small winger making his break through last season. He's got plenty pace and can beat a defender from a standing start. We don't have very many of those so we ought to look after him. He needs to improve his workrate and his tackling technique, and learn to get more involved in games where the ball doesn't come his way, but these are all things he can learn and work on. You can't teach pace. He should start the season as first choice on his wing so will get a chance to progress.

by **RDW** Thu 09 Aug 2012, 8:20 am

Just been reminded we also have visser jnr in the squad! Never been overly excited whenever I've seen him play but he's not really had much of a chance. I expect if he doesnt do much this season they'll just let him go.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 09 Aug 2012, 9:38 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
reallybored wrote:Saw a couple of his tries during the JWC, seemed to be Bennett would make a break then he'd finish in the corner.

Is he better than Jones?
Jury is out. Mind you, Jones is only down as having scored 2 tries in league time in each of the last 2 seasons which isn't a great strike rate for a winger, especially when his Timness is dotting them down for fun. Wouldn't be all that surprised to see Jones shuffled around a bit.

Jones has scored a fair few in the HC, don’t forget. He’s a good player, and the 14 shirt is certainly his to lose. From what I’ve seen, he often makes the initial break that sets up the score (not unlike Mark ‘The Messiah’ Bennett!). I’d certainly like to see him progress further – his defence needs to tighten up if he’s to play for Scotland consistently. Farndale should push him pretty far, I’d certainly give Farndale the benefit of the doubt over someone like Penn.

Someone I haven’t seen or heard much of is Greig Tonks. Aside from being named after a character in Harry Potter, can anyone spill the beans? Good, bad, decent? Best position, etc etc. I know he’s Scots qualified, but is he a realistic contender for international honours?
I am liking this

The Messiah hasn't made the squad for the pre-season friendly against the Hairsprays! Sad

Les arrières: Jean-Marcellin Buttin, Lee Byrne, Anthony Floch, Wesley Fofana, Brock James, Regan King, Julien Malzieu, Noa Nakaitaci, Morgan Parra, Ludovic Radosavljevic, Aurélien Rougerie, Sitiveni Sivivatu, David Skrela, Benson Stanley.

Les avants: Julien Bardy, Benoît Cabello, Raphaël Chaume, Damien Chouly, Jamie Cudmore, Vincent Debaty, Nathan Hines, Loïc Jacquet, Benjamin Kayser, Viktor kolelishvili, Daniel Kotze, Alexandre Lapandry, Julien Pierre, Elvis Vermeulen, Davit Zirakashvili.

by reallybored Thu 09 Aug 2012, 9:45 am

FES do you mean first choice for Edinburgh or Scotland?

by funnyExiledScot Thu 09 Aug 2012, 1:39 pm

reallybored wrote:FES do you mean first choice for Edinburgh or Scotland?

I meant Edinburgh.

Difficult to say who the first choice wingers are for Scotland. I'd say Visser is a cert on one wing, but then the other wing could be any of the following: S Lamont, M Evans, J Ansbro, R Lamont or L Jones. We'll have to wait until all are fit to see who Robinson and Johnson would go for.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 09 Aug 2012, 1:41 pm

I'm sure Robinson will be looking at Nikki Walker or begging Danielli out of retirement.

by **RDW** Thu 09 Aug 2012, 1:42 pm

I'm sure Andy Henderson is still playing and could do us a job on the wing...

by funnyExiledScot Thu 09 Aug 2012, 1:42 pm

ASBO - not looking good for Bennett this season if I'm being brutally honest. King and Rougerie are in the same squad, and Fofana could obviously switch to 13 if needed. I fear he'll be limited to more youth rugby and the odd scrap of action this season, possibly covering wing.

I'd like to be wrong, but if he doesn't get much first team rugby this season, he ought to consider a move.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 09 Aug 2012, 1:44 pm

Radge/RDW - you are both wide of the mark. We need Roland Reid back, after all, he's the Jonah Lomu of Scottish rugby.

Just imagine the damage and havoc he'd cause.....to Scotland.

by **George Carlin** Thu 09 Aug 2012, 1:48 pm

Don't worry FES - I hear that Rob Dewey's available.

For pantomime, I mean.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 09 Aug 2012, 1:52 pm

George Carlin wrote:Don't worry FES - I hear that Rob Dewey's available.

For pantomime, I mean.

"Is he rubbish at rugby?"

"Oh no he isn't"

"Oh yes he is"

Not sure that would work, don't think even the kids would be afraid of him.

Perhaps a slapstick widow twanky role.....

by **George Carlin** Thu 09 Aug 2012, 1:54 pm

"Where's that attacking player from the other side, Rob?"

"HE'S BEHIND YOU!" (etc)

by reallybored Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:05 pm

FES even if Bennett doesn't get much first team rugby this season he'd be foolish to leave a club like Clermont. He's only 19 and the French youth system is the strongest in the Northern Hemisphere, Fofana was 24 before he broke through into the French team.

Plus don't forget that Clermont signed Benson Stanley this summer as well.

How'd you think the ex pats are going to get on next season? Particularly excited about Gray at Sale and Beattie at Montpellier.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:11 pm

I'm particularly pleased about Beattie. He needs a fresh start and I think Montpellier is as good a place as any. I actually thought somewhere like Northampton might take him, to replace Roger Wilson, and I'd have liked to see him in the Aviva.

Max Evans needs a big season at Castres to get back on track, not sure he's progressed much in the last couple of years, and I'm concerned about how much game time Joe Ansbro will get at Irish given the emergence of Joseph at 13.

I'd still rather Bennett was playing proper rugby sooner rather than later. We've seen with Stuart Hogg over the last year how beneficial that can be. I'm happy for him to be at Clermont for another year, regardless of the rugby he gets to play, but as he approaches 21, he really should be in a first team somewhere, if he's as good as everyone says he is.

by reallybored Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:27 pm

I really hope the French lifestyle re-vitalises Beattie, on form he's a class number 8 and the prospect of him rampaging around with Denton is exciting.

Really hope Gray makes a big impression in the Aviva with Sale and cements his status as one of the best locks in the World. Would be great to see McKenzie have another big season and be in contention for the Scotland squad come 6 Nations.

Ansbro was playing at 12 to accommodate Joseph last season plus he can play on the wing so will hopefully get game-time but I agree that ideally he'd be starting at 13.

Can imagine Strokosch will be like a pig in muck with the forward dominated, attritional style of play Perpignan favour.

Do you think Murray, Lawson and Blair will be in contention for Scotland next year considering they're all playing 2nd Division rugby?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:30 pm

reallybored wrote:FES even if Bennett doesn't get much first team rugby this season he'd be foolish to leave a club like Clermont. He's only 19 and the French youth system is the strongest in the Northern Hemisphere, Fofana was 24 before he broke through into the French team.

Plus don't forget that Clermont signed Benson Stanley this summer as well.

How'd you think the ex pats are going to get on next season? Particularly excited about Gray at Sale and Beattie at Montpellier.

+1 to that, rb

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:32 pm

reallybored wrote:I really hope the French lifestyle re-vitalises Beattie, on form he's a class number 8 and the prospect of him rampaging around with Denton is exciting.

Really hope Gray makes a big impression in the Aviva with Sale and cements his status as one of the best locks in the World. Would be great to see McKenzie have another big season and be in contention for the Scotland squad come 6 Nations.

Ansbro was playing at 12 to accommodate Joseph last season plus he can play on the wing so will hopefully get game-time but I agree that ideally he'd be starting at 13.

Can imagine Strokosch will be like a pig in muck with the forward dominated, attritional style of play Perpignan favour.

Do you think Murray, Lawson and Blair will be in contention for Scotland next year considering they're all playing 2nd Division rugby?

When was his first? Good in parts in his final season with Embra, and missing with injury for large chunks of his first season with Sale?

by reallybored Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:29 pm

He played a fair amount for Sale last season (17+1) despite being injured for the second half of the season. Watched a couple of his performances; gets stuck into the grunt work but also has the athleticism to get round the park.

by **RDW** Fri 10 Aug 2012, 1:52 pm

I've creeped into the world of the Geordie to ask about our first pre season game down there....feel free to join in!

https://www.606v2.com/t29560p200-newcastle-falcons-thread#1463793

by justified sinner Mon 13 Aug 2012, 9:07 pm

So how many of the Scotland players will miss the Munster game? Posted this on another thread apologies for cross post.

For Edinburgh, Munster first up, I'd expect to see Rennie, Scott, Denton rested and possibly NDL, can't see Laidlaw allowing himself to be rested as Captain, similarly Viss, Brown didn't see much action so should be fine. Gilchrist, Chunk didn't tour so will be fresh. Interesting one will be Ford played all 3 games and may be given more time, particularly as he's AR's captain and he won't want him overplayed.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 13 Aug 2012, 11:24 pm

Munster should have similar issues with their Irish players so hopefully things will even up.

1.Chunk/Yapp 2.Titterall 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Cox 6.Denton/McInally 7.Grant 8.Talei 9.Rees 10.Laidlaw 11.Visser 12.Houston/King 13.Atiga 14.Jones 15.Brown

Something like that first up.

by reallybored Tue 14 Aug 2012, 12:16 am

Doubt any of the Scotland players will be involved, they're a couple weeks behind the rest of the squad with their pre-season. Hope the younger guys like Hislop, Walker, McAlpine, Black, Leonard, Fife and Farndale get a chance to impress over the three games. Excited to see Nel, Basilaia, Rees and Atiga in action.

My guess would be:

1 - Yapp
2 - Walker
3 - Nel
4 - Gilchrist
5 - Cox
6 - McInally
7 - Grany
8 - Talei
9 - Rees
10 - Leonard
11 - Fife
12 - King
13 - Atiga
14 - Penn
15 - Tonks

by funnyExiledScot Tue 14 Aug 2012, 12:52 pm

Why would Denton be rested? Hasn't he just had the summer off? Odd to rest Denton and not Leonard and Farndale, both of whom played lots of JWC rugby over the summer.

If Lee Jones is fit, surely he'll play as well.

I'll guess we'll find out on Friday who is in shape and who is not. Might try and go to the Saints friendly the following week, assuming my season ticket has arrived by then.....

by **RDW** Tue 14 Aug 2012, 12:54 pm

Wonder if Denton's injury is fully fixed? His pre-season might have started late too if the first month or so was sitting about not able to run.

Plus it is going to be a long season for him - so they might hold him back a bit. Especially if we have Ian the Fijian and our token Georgian.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 14 Aug 2012, 12:59 pm

Personally I'd like to see our mystery Georgian in action, just to confirm that he exists otherwise than on paper. Hopefully his absence is down to the fact that he's been lifting weights in the Olympics (and not the chap who dropped the bar on his neck.........).

by **RDW** Tue 14 Aug 2012, 1:09 pm

Good news on that front - I tweeted the Edinburgh feed asking if he'd arrived yet and they replied with a picture proving his existence!

by funnyExiledScot Tue 14 Aug 2012, 1:23 pm

Hopefully he looked huge and terrifyingly scary, like he wouldn't fall off a tackle in a Rabo12 fixture even if his life depended on it......

by **RDW** Tue 14 Aug 2012, 1:25 pm

He did look quite big, but not the best perspective to find out!

http://twitter.com/EdinburghRugby/status/235345144533094400/photo/1

I'm sure his stats said he was 6ft 3 or something but can never trust those.

by **George Carlin** Tue 14 Aug 2012, 2:46 pm

Great hands for a bigfeller:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N0xB4mOKLc

by reallybored Tue 14 Aug 2012, 3:12 pm

Looks like a bit of a bull, shame he'll probably be behind Talei and Denton.

Anyone else think the fly-half situation is a bit of a worry? We don't have a single player that has played a full season of pro-rugby at fly-half in the squad!

by Captain_Sensible Tue 14 Aug 2012, 3:20 pm

reallybored wrote:Looks like a bit of a bull, shame he'll probably be behind Talei and Denton.

Anyone else think the fly-half situation is a bit of a worry? We don't have a single player that has played a full season of pro-rugby at fly-half in the squad!

Yeah, 'tis a bit concerning, especially as I think Scotland would be best served with Laidlaw at 9, but because he'll have to play 10 for Edinburgh he won't get enough game time in his old position to play it internationally.

by **RDW** Tue 14 Aug 2012, 3:20 pm

Laidlaw pretty much did, and has now played at 10 all 6N, Heineken cup quarter and semi final and a successful summer tour, so he's had a lot of experience now!

by reallybored Wed 15 Aug 2012, 1:00 am

Who's likely to win the 1872 Cup this year?

by **RDW** Wed 15 Aug 2012, 7:18 am

I don't know whose likely, but it's about feckin time Edinburgh got it back!

by justified sinner Wed 15 Aug 2012, 7:51 am

The 1872 kicks off a massive run of 5 matches;

Glasgow (a)
Glasgow (h)
Leinster (h)
Munster (h) HCup
Sarries (a) HCup

There's bound to be some element of squad rotation if only due to minor knocks being rested up. Hopefully the squad depth Edinburgh have been working in will be up to the job.

Can't wait, especially for that run of 3 home games. Either going to be very happy or suffering a horrible New Year hangover. Here's to the former.

by **George Carlin** Wed 15 Aug 2012, 8:50 am

If Glasgow can keep their kevlar defence and if their new look tight five can continue to shore up the set piece, then they should win it.

Does anyone know under what circumstances Glasgow would hold onto the cup as incumbents? Is it if each side win one? Or do they aggregate the scores over two games and give the cup to the aggregate winner?

Or if it's one game apiece do Toonie and Bradley have a pillow fight on a slowly rotating log over a vat of custard whilst Stuart Hall commentates?

by **RDW** Wed 15 Aug 2012, 8:54 am

It comes down to points difference.

Glasgow just seem to have the mental edge over Edinburgh when it comes to these games- last year we had them dead and buried at Murrayfield but they managed to come back and sneak a draw.

Hopefully Neil Back will help change the mental attitude though and get the cup back!

I'm sure when the cup re-started no one was that interested in it....

by **George Carlin** Wed 15 Aug 2012, 9:03 am

I think that my pillow fight idea has merit.

by **RDW** Wed 15 Aug 2012, 1:42 pm

Anyone going to Newcastle? Got tickets for the fringe so won't be myself.

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