New season, new Edinburgh team

First topic message reminder :

Second of the Scottish team's modest pre-season focus.

As before, incumbent or probably first choice in bold, other options in brackets:

1. Jacobson (Yapp, Walker, Allan, Cringle)
2. Ford (Titterell, Turner)
3. Nel (Cross, Niven, Hislop)
4. van der Westhuizen (Parker, Gilchrist)
5. Cox (Turnbull, McAlpine)
6. Denton (McInally)
7. Rennie (Grant)
8. Talei (Basilaia, McInally)

9. Rees (Leck, Laidlaw, Black)
10. Laidlaw (Leonard, Hunter, Tonks)
11. T. Visser (Penn, Farndale)
12. Scott (King, Houston)
13. De Luca (Atiga, Tonks, Cairns)
14. Jones (Fife)
15. Brown (Atiga, Tonks, S. Visser, Cairns)

7s players not included (e.g. Clyne) and not all EDPs may be there. As with Glasgow, lots of known unknowns.

Potential problems are obvious - real lack of potential grunt in the boiler room, real drop in quality between first XV and their replacements and 9 may be a weakness.

The backs have an unbelievable amount of potential - the sheer speed of Visser, Brown, Jones, Fife and Farndale is extraordinary. Can Back bring the forwards up to speed and can the backs learn to tackle once in a while? Can potentially the best back row in the Robocop get even better?

Players to watch: Nel, Atiga, Leonard, Farndale and Basilaia.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:On ticketing, no more discounts for students. Young/ middle aged professionals are the squeezed middle here, the forgotten class. Discounts for us please!!

Good job you remembered to include yourself there, fES!

I consider myself to fall within the "/". "/"

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm just comparing last year with this year - we rode out luck against Racing Metro, and Munster and Saracans are tougher prospects than Cardiff and London Irish were - especially away.

I also think we've lost the surprise factor too - teams won't be taking us lightly.

I don't think we'll top the group, judging by some of the other groups we won't be the best runners up, and would be delighted with Amlin qualification

Agreed, it'll be an even greater achievement this season to escape that group. The first game is massive, if Edinburgh lose at home first up, I can't see us qualifying.

Hopefully Nel and VDW (if he's about) can tame their mates at Sarries

I really am desperate for us to do well and not jsut scrape a couple of home wins. It would be a disaster for us to not be able to build on last year. For years we've had to put up with scraping the odd big team at home and we should be aiming higher than that.

But you never know - beat Sarries at home and somehow manage to topple Munster away and we're really cooking with gas.

As you say though, lose to Sarries and it's all over....all momentum gone for the season too probably,

Huge game against Sarries. Shame it's on at the same time as all the club rugby games in Scotland. Might have to be 'injured' that weekend!

Damn right, I'd start working on that convincing limp were I you. That's an unmissable game.

I don't think we'll need to beat Munster in Thomond, but a losing bonus point and keeping them away from 4 tries would be a result. That followed by a win in the first game and we'll be doing very well. Anything is possible against Racing as we well know. They certainly won't fancy Murrayfield in December.

And hopefully they will have lost to Sarries and Munster by that point so couldn't be hooped anymore!

Club site saying season tickets in the post today. Looking forward to seeing what these scan jobs look like.

Excellent - I'll look out for mine in the post. I'm expecting it to look like a Wonka Golden Ticket!

Anyone received their season ticket yet? Nada in the post for me!

Think twitter said next week.

Sounds like the open evening was a good night, and 900 people attending is a fantastic number.

I didn't make it myself as I had to work late (if it was an hour later I reckon there would have been more), did anyone go?

Good to see a first interview with WP Nel too. I don't know if it was because he was nervous, or if Afrikaans is his first language, but he didn't seem massively confident with his English!

Watching the video of them all getting their hair cut I was struck that he wasn't actually that tall - at least an inch shorter than Cross. He does look in good shape though and seems to have lost a bit of his belly that made him look like a larger version of Chunk.

Can't wait to see him play!

Not heard anything of our big Georgian yet - I'm assuming he has arrived? Edinburgh are usually pretty quick at churning out interviews but that was a week before they interviewed Nel and not heard anything of the Georgian yet.

In fact I'll ask Biltonbek about WP Nel's lack of confidence when speaking - if it was nerves or otherwise!

https://www.youtube.com/user/EdinburghRugbyTV

New Edinburgh shirt is awesome. I really like it.

RDW he is a born and bred Afrikaner.

Willem Petrus (WP) Nel
HEIGHT 182 cm
WEIGHT 120 Kg
BIRTH DATE 30 April 1986
BIRTH PLACE Loeriesfontein
MARITIAL STATUS Single
FAVOURITE FILM Notting Hill
FAVOURITE MUSIC Klipwerf
FAVOURITE FOOD Steak,Chips
PRIMARY SCHOOL TNJ van der Walt
SECONDARY SCHOOL Drostdy THS, Worcester

You will find plenty of rugby players from the Free State and even some of the Northern Provinces have a very poor to average command of the english language.

But I am sure you guys will teach him.

Interesting. So do they speak Afrikaans as their first language?

Fairly in depth stats you've pulled off there, although think he said in the interview his wife has come over with him and they're expecting a baby!

Yeah sorry the Springbok website may not be up to date.

Yes, you will find some areas in SA where kids only have English as a second language and then if they grow up in small towns in the country, well, they never get to use it.

As you say - I'm sure he'll learn our own version of the English language!

Better honing his English skills in Edinburgh instead of with the great unwashed through in the West though....

biltongbek wrote:
FAVOURITE MUSIC Klipwerf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAmAIWkzgDg

Scary isn't it.

His favourite film is Notting Hill???! Is that supposed to be a joke?!

That song's been stuck in my head all morning, I think I'm going mad.

Backy making some noise in the Torygraph:

Neil Back promises to add steel to Edinburgh's performances in the RaboDirect PRO12 league

By Alasdair Reid

Forward thinking: Neil Back made it clear that none of the Edinburgh pack will be resting on laurels while he is at the club. Speaking for the first time since his appointment last month, the former Leicester, England and Lions flanker explained that he had been tempted north by Edinburgh's performances in the Heineken Cup last season, but that they also need to make a huge improvement in the RaboDirect PRO12 league.

Under head coach Michael Bradley, Edinburgh became the first Scottish side ever to reach a Heineken Cup semi-final, where they lost narrowly to Ulster. However, their performance in the PRO12 were a stark and depressing contrast to that heady campaign. On the domestic front, the capital side won just six of their 22 games and finished second from bottom in the league table.

“This a fantastic opportunity for all of us as coaches,” said Back. “I watched the Heineken Cup semi-final without knowing I would be coming to Edinburgh and was very impressed by the style of play, the fluidity and the quality of players within the squad. So I'm thrilled to be here and looking forward the challenges we'll face this year.

“But domestically, where we finished is not good enough. Hopefully we can improve and become more consistent throughout the season. There are lots of issues and things to sort out but we have a fantastic management team here and the backroom staff are all top quality people.”

Back won 66 England caps and was a World Cup winner in Sir Clive Woodward's side of 2003. He also played five Tests for the British and Irish Lions. After a distinguished 15-year playing career at Leicester, he spent some time as an assistant coach with the Welford Road club before moving on to take the head coach role at Leeds.

Back stood down at the Yorkshire club after relegation from the Aviva Premiership. He then joined Rugby Lions as head coach, but the experience ended bitterly a few months ago when the historic Warwickshire side's financial difficulties became insurmountable and the club went into relegation.

Back said: “I took an opportunity last year that was meant to last longer than it did. Because it didn't go the way we hoped I thought I was looking for other opportunities and Edinburgh was one of those.

“I came up here and met Michael [Bradley], chief exexutive Craig Docherty and other members of staff. We talked through the vision and the future for Edinburgh and it was massively appealing. That's why I'm here now.”

The quality of the Edinburgh forwards was unquestionably an attraction for Back as well. At full-strength, the Murrayfield side can field an almost full-international pack. However, the 43-year-old Back made it clear that none will be resting on laurels while he is at the club.

“I admired some of the players previously and now that I'm working with them and getting to know them I believe there are some truly world-class players here,” Back explained. “They're good players, but they can be great players. If I can be a part of helping them progress then it would be a massive achievement.

“Now, the pressure is truly on us to perform better in domestic competitions because we do have strength in depth and competition for places. If players have to fight for their places at club level it's going to push them that little bit further. Maybe that hasn't happened in the past.”

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Backy making some noise in the Torygraph:

Neil Back promises to add steel to Edinburgh's performances in the RaboDirect PRO12 league

By Alasdair Reid

Forward thinking: Neil Back made it clear that none of the Edinburgh pack will be resting on laurels while he is at the club. Speaking for the first time since his appointment last month, the former Leicester, England and Lions flanker explained that he had been tempted north by Edinburgh's performances in the Heineken Cup last season, but that they also need to make a huge improvement in the RaboDirect PRO12 league.

Under head coach Michael Bradley, Edinburgh became the first Scottish side ever to reach a Heineken Cup semi-final, where they lost narrowly to Ulster. However, their performance in the PRO12 were a stark and depressing contrast to that heady campaign. On the domestic front, the capital side won just six of their 22 games and finished second from bottom in the league table.

“This a fantastic opportunity for all of us as coaches,” said Back. “I watched the Heineken Cup semi-final without knowing I would be coming to Edinburgh and was very impressed by the style of play, the fluidity and the quality of players within the squad. So I'm thrilled to be here and looking forward the challenges we'll face this year.

“But domestically, where we finished is not good enough. Hopefully we can improve and become more consistent throughout the season. There are lots of issues and things to sort out but we have a fantastic management team here and the backroom staff are all top quality people.”

Back won 66 England caps and was a World Cup winner in Sir Clive Woodward's side of 2003. He also played five Tests for the British and Irish Lions. After a distinguished 15-year playing career at Leicester, he spent some time as an assistant coach with the Welford Road club before moving on to take the head coach role at Leeds.

Back stood down at the Yorkshire club after relegation from the Aviva Premiership. He then joined Rugby Lions as head coach, but the experience ended bitterly a few months ago when the historic Warwickshire side's financial difficulties became insurmountable and the club went into relegation.

Back said: “I took an opportunity last year that was meant to last longer than it did. Because it didn't go the way we hoped I thought I was looking for other opportunities and Edinburgh was one of those.

“I came up here and met Michael [Bradley], chief exexutive Craig Docherty and other members of staff. We talked through the vision and the future for Edinburgh and it was massively appealing. That's why I'm here now.”

The quality of the Edinburgh forwards was unquestionably an attraction for Back as well. At full-strength, the Murrayfield side can field an almost full-international pack. However, the 43-year-old Back made it clear that none will be resting on laurels while he is at the club.

“I admired some of the players previously and now that I'm working with them and getting to know them I believe there are some truly world-class players here,” Back explained. “They're good players, but they can be great players. If I can be a part of helping them progress then it would be a massive achievement.

“Now, the pressure is truly on us to perform better in domestic competitions because we do have strength in depth and competition for places. If players have to fight for their places at club level it's going to push them that little bit further. Maybe that hasn't happened in the past.”

Completely in character for him - spikey and honest.

If even a shred of his small, angry dog can rub off on the pack, that will be tremendous.

Not sure how the likes of Talei will feel about being described as a 'good, not great' player... I suppose NB has earned the right to be a bit of a gobsh!te. He'd better deliver though, in that case.

For the past few years we've had a fairly soft pack with a fairly soft forwards coach (Tom Smith). We have the potential to have some real world class players in the pack so lets hope Neil Back can bring the best out of them.

We need a tough pack to take on the HK group this year, and if we can start dominating teams in the Rabbo as well then all the better.

He's talking the talk so far anyway!

Who do you think the truly world class players are?

Well Ross Rennie was one of the standout 7s in International rugby last 7 and is still only mid 20s, Ross Ford is about to come into his hooking prime and I think Dave Denton could really become a super star if he continues his progression (he's still only 22/23!).

I don't want this to descend into another "what is world class" debate because it will just invite the Welsh to cause trouble, but I think the 3 mentioned could turn into top International players.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well Ross Rennie was one of the standout 7s in International rugby last 7 and is still only mid 20s, Ross Ford is about to come into his hooking prime and I think Dave Denton could really become a super star if he continues his progression (he's still only 22/23!).

I don't want this to descend into another "what is world class" debate because it will just invite the Welsh to cause trouble, but I think the 3 mentioned could turn into top International players.

+1, we do have the potential to be a real handul this season in the Rabo and the HC. We really have a chance to throw down a marker against Musnter in a few weeks.

I'd be tempted to add Gilchrist to that list, obviously he's not there yet but in 3 or 4 years he could be.

He's only 21 and looked very assured in his first season of pro-rugby, a big lump but has good skills and a calm head.

Any backs in the "World Class" bracket?

Non currently IMO, but Laidlaw, Scott and Visser could become top International performers. I think world class may be a stretch for them, maybe Visser aside, but you never know as they are still all fairly young themselves.

It is going to be a big season for Gilchrist - he has had a full season of rugby under his belt, and should be in great shape having had a decent holiday and has done a full pre-season. He really needs to kick on and push for Scotland. As you said he's a big lump and has good skills, but he needs to develop his hard edge. Hopefully that's where Neil Back comes along!

All in all it is exciting times - almost all of our players are about to come into the playing primes!

It’s the youth of the squad that makes me very optimistic – the ‘senior’ players like Ford, Laidlaw, NDL and Talei are still in their mid to late 20s, and there is a whole host of young guys who have performed very well this season because Bradley has put his trust in them – Gilchrist, Scott, Brown, Denton, to name a few. They’ll continue to develop, and there are even younger guys like Farndale, Leonard and Fife who are looking to break into the squad.

I think both Scottish clubs are building something very special – what they need to do now is deliver on their potential and get people through the gates!

Trying to think of any other players over 30 other thank His Royal Chunkness...

I'm not sure that there are any. RDW, now that Mossy has retired and Blair has flown the nest.

I think the next oldest is maybe Cross, who is 29 I think, which is still teenage years for a prop!

How much meaningful game-time do you see the following getting:

Hislop
Walker
Niven
McAlpine
Leonard
Farndale
Fife

I reckon the backs on that list will get more game time than the forwards. Leonard is the only alternative at 10 to Laidlaw, Farndale looks really, really good and Fife did pretty well in his limited appearances last season.

Agreed. Hislop is 3rd choice loosehead and Walker is 3rd choice hooker so will only really be involved during the internationals. Can't see McAlpine getting much game time at all.

The 14 shirt is very much up for grabs though, and Jones, Farndale and Fife all have a good chance of getting it.

I saw a load of the Edinburgh boys out at the Spiegel tent on George Street on Saturday night - obviously carried on after the team BBQ in the afternoon! They were fairly reekin and Lewis Niven was smoking a fag - obviously taking pre-season seriously! Alex Black even got booted out for being so drunk!

Nice to see that Niven hasn't changed much since I played with him in our younger days.

You play with him too? Who for? I played with him for Royal High under 16s - he was a decent player but didn't think for a minute he'd go on to be a pro.

Got to wonder about his fitness if he's happy to smoke!

We played Sunday mini-rugby for Stewart Melville’s when we were 11 years old or so (I didn’t go to the school, just had a few mates that did so I tagged along for the Sunday games). Niven obviously wasn’t smoking then, but he was one fat cheeky fecker. Fin Calder came to do a training session once (Jim Calder actually ran the Sunday mini-rugby at Stew Mel), and he made Niven run around the pitch about a dozen times after the boy gave him a few lippy remarks.

Moral of the story – don’t Flip with Fin Calder.

Weird - the auto correct on my computer has changed f*** to Flip.

F***ing censorship, man.

It's very difficult to believe given Scotland's generally appalling tournament that Farndale was top scorer in the U20s RWC. But he was and a couple of them were beauties.

He should be the priority young back to develop because Scotland needs a wing desperately with raw pace that can see and run great angles and Farndale is looking like he could be it.

Oprah forbid that nothing will happen to His Timness or Jones but if it does, then Penn and Farndale should be duking it out for the shirt.

Ironic that once again Glasgow seems to have recruited the more nuggety forwards in Macdonald and Swinson in the pre-season.

It won't be your computer - this site does it automatically! There are some other words too that give entertaining results.

George Carlin wrote:It's very difficult to believe given Scotland's generally appalling tournament that Farndale was top scorer in the U20s RWC. But he was and a couple of them were beauties.

He should be the priority young back to develop because Scotland needs a wing desperately with raw pace that can see and run great angles and Farndale is looking like he could be it.

Oprah forbid that nothing will happen to His Timness or Jones but if it does, then Penn and Farndale should be duking it out for the shirt.

Ironic that once again Glasgow seems to have recruited the more nuggety forwards in Macdonald and Swinson in the pre-season.

Be patient, GC, Maitland is slowly seeing the light!

From watching him at the world cup, Basillia (sp?) is a total nutter, and am quite happy he's come to us!

As I said previously on this thread - Edinburgh haven't really said anything about him yet so am wondering if he's arrive yet.

Remember that Edinburgh have signed ex-Lion Andy Titterrell as cover for Ford and I would think that he must be first choice if Ross takes a few too many to the head.

Guscott smoked like a chimney and was one of the finest centres the home nations have ever produced.

Can someone give me the skinny on Farndale; doesn't look the biggest, doesn't look electric quick and doesn't seem to have a Williams-esque step. Yet he seems to score plenty of tries?

George Carlin wrote:It's very difficult to believe given Scotland's generally appalling tournament that Farndale was top scorer in the U20s RWC. But he was and a couple of them were beauties.

He should be the priority young back to develop because Scotland needs a wing desperately with raw pace that can see and run great angles and Farndale is looking like he could be it.

Oprah forbid that nothing will happen to His Timness or Jones but if it does, then Penn and Farndale should be duking it out for the shirt.

Ironic that once again Glasgow seems to have recruited the more nuggety forwards in Macdonald and Swinson in the pre-season.

I don't think Scotland were that appalling during the JWC - yes, they got humped by the Aussies, but they ran France very close and convincingly beat Italy and Samoa. Not brilliant, but Scotland never are at that age level. Our youngsters don't get exposed to high quality matches early enough.

reallybored wrote:Guscott smoked like a chimney and was one of the finest centres the home nations have ever produced.

Can someone give me the skinny on Farndale; doesn't look the biggest, doesn't look electric quick and doesn't seem to have a Williams-esque step. Yet he seems to score plenty of tries?

From what I've seen, he has a knack for being in the right place at the right time and for running some lovely lines. He is pretty quick, but you're right, he's not a monster by any stretch of the imagination.

He is also only 18!

I liken him to Ashton - not the quickest or biggest but runs good lines and knows how to score. Except he isn't a total !

You say that about Guscott but he probably got away with it cause everyone else had the same lifestyle in those days!

On Farndale, Simon Webster had a good quote when he said that Farndale was lifitng more in the gym than Webster has ever managed in his career. I know Webster wasn't exactly Mr Muscle but the boy is obviously strong and at 18 will develop a lot.