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GAA vote is boost for Ireland's 2023 Rugby World Cup bid

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profitius
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Post by Kingshu Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:56 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/19305676

Could The IRFU with the GAA's help host a successful world cup.

Casement Park will be a 40,000 all seater stadium then, and Ravenhill should be up to 18,000, so should get some good games in the North.

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Post by Duigers Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:53 am

I'd say Casement is the only ground up there which would potentially see a game. 18K is just too small (I think I read in the papers at the weekend that capacity would need to be 30K)...

Clones would be a good shout for an Ulster based game..

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Post by red_stag Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:58 am

Duigers,

In New Zealand they had Palmerstown North (15,000), Nelson (18,000) and Whangarei (18,000). I don't see any problem using Ravenhill for Georgia v Namibia or Fiji v Russia.

Belfast is too large a city to only have 1 stadium.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:03 am

I think England has something like 12 stadiums of varying sizes for the 2015 RWC. They do go from the club stadiums like Saint's Franklins Gardens of 17,000 to the Tigers Welford Rd currently 24,000 (supposedly 30k by 2015). There's some 50k footy stadiums for big games and then Wembley and Twickers (both over 80k) for the massive ones.

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Post by Jenifer McLadyboy Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:08 am

With the GAA we should get close to that.

RDS, Ravenhill. Thomond, Musgrave (may actually get it's upgrade by then), Lansdowne rd.

Obviously Croker, and we're half way there already

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Post by red_stag Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:19 am

Jennifer,

We have the 6 GAA Stadiums (from 35,00 - 85,000) then the Aviva, RDS, Ravenhill and Thomond. I suspect then a developed Sportsgrounds (currently 10,000, Dubarry Park (currently 10,000) or Musgrave Park (currently 10,000) would bring it to 13.

Dublin x 3
Galway x 2
Limerick x 2
Cork x 2
Belfast x 2
Kerry x 1
Athlone x 1

Thats a real mix of locations which is good.
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Post by Jenifer McLadyboy Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:40 am

Yeah. I knew that we had enough. Just not an expert on GAA and not sure which ones were the biggest and in the best condition.

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Post by Mickado Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:02 pm

Do we not HAVE to include the MS in Cardiff no? I thought any 6n team that hosts the WC has to give them a game or two because they moved so many games around to us in 1999?

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Post by red_stag Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:17 pm

Im not sure how definite that is. I believe its a "gentlemans agreement"

From what I understand the only reason France used Wales and Scotland for matches was to get votes to host in 2007.

I would think it ridiculous if we had to use it in 2023 simply because of a loose arrangment made a quarter of a century ago. I'd tell the Welsh to feck off or else make do with Georgia v Namibia.
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Post by Portnoy Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:22 pm

Is the accommodation infrastructure in place?

Just a question.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:23 pm

Does Ireland have the infastructure to deal with 10s of thousands of people flooding to the country for the games as well as putting up all the squads that will be travelling in? Belfast and Dublin will be ok but how well equipped is Cork etc? NZ is supposed to have struggled at the last RWC.

I would think it ridiculous if we had to use it in 2023 simply because of a loose arrangment made a quarter of a century ago. I'd tell the Welsh to feck off or else make do with Georgia v Namibia.

I'm still hoping England do the same in 2015. Wales should not get to play their games in Wales, that's cheating.

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Post by Mickado Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:25 pm

Of all the cities Stag has mentioned I’m sure all bar Athlone would already be well able to accommodate the amount of folks travelling to them.

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Post by red_stag Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:28 pm

Portnoy wrote:Is the accommodation infrastructure in place?

Just a question.

It actually is Portnoy if done in that manner. Its a very recent development.

During the Celtic Tiger we went a bit over board building hotels.

They have been smart in basing the GAA stadiums around the places with good transport and hotels rather than just picking the biggest stadiums.

For example Semple Stadium in Thurles (around 55,000) was not chosen because the town of Thurles would not be able to cope with it.

But because they are mainly Belfast, Dublin, Limerick, Galway and Cork we would be fine. Having one in Killarney, Co. Kerry is great move also.
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Post by Kingshu Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:01 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gaelic_Athletic_Association_stadiums


1 Croke Park 82,300
2 Semple Stadium 55,000 Thurles
3 Gaelic Grounds 50,000 Limerick
4 Páirc Uí Chaoimh 43,500 Cork
5 Fitzgerald Stadium 43,000 Killarney
6 McHale Park 42,000 Castlebar
7 St. Tiernach's Park 36,000 Clones
8 Pearse Stadium 34,000 Galway

Casement in Belfast will be a newly buillt 40,000 all seater stadium, and 5 more GAA stadiums between 25-30,000 capacity, and the rugby grounds, NLR, RDS, Thomond, Ravenhill and maybe the Sportsgrounds(?) and you'd have to say it ould make a very appealing bid.

Very easy travel for most of the 6 nations countries. A few teams based in Dublin, Belfast and others in Limerick etc would create a very good enviroment, eap if the GAA training facilitys are opened up for use as well.

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Post by Portnoy Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:02 pm

That's good Staggy.

It was a serious question as thee's be little point having glam and fab stadia whic fall foul of other IRB criteria for the RWC.
I believe that there was some stretching of those in NZ's bid - ithat I suspect was pretty much their last hurrah.

Maybe also some consideration ought to be given to selecting countries located in tectonic hot-spots - so NY over LA/SF were USA considered for instance.

I'd be in favour of an All-Ireland bid. Few countries are more hospitable.
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Post by red_stag Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:05 pm

Your right Portnoy. It is indeed a massive considerations.

Ireland is much smaller than NZ too which makes it easier.

For example Limerick to Dublin is 2 hours drive.

Limerick to Galway is about 80 minutes.

Belfast to Dublin is around 90 minutes drive.

Its very easy to get from A to B.
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Post by Portnoy Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:12 pm

And now the old distance markers have been superseded by km ones, you can actually have a reasonable guide to how far it is from A to B - especially if you are legging it. I know that from bitter experience. Sad .
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Post by Mickado Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:27 pm

A lot of motorways have been built in the last few years too. Dublin to Belfast, Cork, Limerick, Athlone, Galway is motorway all the way. Killarney, not so much, but there are at least trains to take you there.

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Post by Casartelli Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:30 pm

An Irish RWC would be the best ever - absolutely brilliant!

Croke Park would be a magnificent stadium for a final and there should be no entertaining the idea of farming out games to other 6N countries. RWC 2007 was all the poorer for that sort of nonsense.

Is this a genuine possibility?

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Post by Mickado Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:43 pm

Casartelli wrote:An Irish RWC would be the best ever - absolutely brilliant!

Croke Park would be a magnificent stadium for a final and there should be no entertaining the idea of farming out games to other 6N countries. RWC 2007 was all the poorer for that sort of nonsense.

Is this a genuine possibility?

All we know for now is that there's a genuine possibility that we'll be making a bid.

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Post by red_stag Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:50 pm

My worry is that the IRB will not be keen on 3 Northern Hemisphere tournaments in a row.

2015 - England
2019 - Japan
2023 - Ireland

And should someone like South Africa or Argentina come in and make a bad that could be a factor. IRB is very political.
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Post by Casartelli Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:55 pm

I'm making a down payment on a campervan lease now.

Does Japan count as 'Northern Hemisphere'? I know it is, geographically so, but in rugby terms it's 'lower tier pacific nation'?

Ireland should just get the 2015 gig anyway.

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Post by gowales Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:00 pm

Japan is pretty much in the Souther Hemisphere time zone so i would think that it counts as a SH tournament.

I doubt the IRB are going to keep using that order anyway. The only competitive SH country that hasn't held a world cup is Argentina!

Edit: Why is this in the club section?

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Post by Portnoy Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:04 pm

Mickado wrote:A lot of motorways have been built in the last few years too. Dublin to Belfast, Cork, Limerick, Athlone, Galway is motorway all the way. Killarney, not so much, but there are at least trains to take you there.

I know Mick. A bit different from my first visit in 1974 when my (hichhiking) progress down the A1(?) between Dublin and Cork was impeded by a bloke herding sheep.

Mind you it took nothing away from my love the country.

What's the road from Cork to Cobh like these days? Last time it was like a B-feature cowboy tumble weed trail. Like Spain, the country was put into the fast lane with EU (well EEC then) funding.
The place has been transformed and certainly looks as though it could host a RWC.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:05 pm

I thing a lot will depend on how financially successful the next two RWCs are. The NZ RWC was certainly not a financial triumph and as such the IRB will be looking to make more money from the next two and possibly three so a lot will depend on how well Ireland can market itself, in particular to international sponsors.

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Post by Mickado Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:09 pm

I have no idea, but as it’s between a large(ish) town and a large city I’d imagine it’s decent enough.

I’m hoping that public transport continues on its upwards curve too, we’re probably about 10 years away (in Dublin anyway) from where we need to be in terms of a public transport system.

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Post by Portnoy Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:14 pm

gowales wrote:Japan is pretty much in the Souther Hemisphere time zone so i would think that it counts as a SH tournament.

I doubt the IRB are going to keep using that order anyway. The only competitive SH country that hasn't held a world cup is Argentina!

Edit: Why is this in the club section?

You confuse hemispheres with time zones.

Japan, Oceania and the rest of Asia form one practicable media-friendly time zone
Africa, Europe and the Americas another.

But then you could always chop and change that according to the longitude you base calculation.
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Post by Duigers Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:21 pm

It would be great, but I can't help but think that the best possible RWC would be held in Italy....

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Post by Portnoy Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:28 pm

Better than France's 2007 Duigers?

I think that that'd be hard to top. Just like in in my heart of hearts I don't believe London 2012 didn't better Sydney 2000.
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Post by Duigers Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:30 pm

Hmmm, well France has the pedigree and would be THE location for it, but with the expansion of the game at stake, I think Italy would put on a great show and maybe encourage a bit more uptake in the game...

London were the best Olympics I reckon.. just for the way the public took it to heart..

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Post by red_stag Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:34 pm

Really Portnoy?

Duigers - the problem that Italy has is that it would be reliant on soccer stadiums in a big way. And the RWC runs during the soccer season.

No other country has really had to cope with that. I mean England will use them and France did in 2007 but they are always used in conjuction with the rugby stadiums.

The only rugby stadium in Italy is the Stadio Flaminio. It would be a big problem.

Lucky for us that Gaelic Football and Hurling are summer sports.
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Post by Irish Londoner Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Ireland would be great - no problem with the North West - just turn the Brandywell into a 30,000 all seater Yahoo
The accomodation would not be as big a problem as might be thought, whilst there may be a slight shortage of hotels (particularly of the 5* jobs the alickadoos would want to be in) in some areas, as far as the fans go Ireland has a long tradition of B & B/Guest Houses which would take up a lot of the slack - some basic but all very comfortable and welcoming complete with the full (Ulster) fry to start the day.
Sure what's not to like guinness Leprechaun guinness

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Post by Portnoy Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:20 pm

Really Portnoy?

Is that about London/Sydney Stag?

Well in that case yes. On the Games themselves they are very comparable although the legacy issue may help me form a more considered opinion.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:24 pm

Duigers - the problem that Italy has is that it would be reliant on soccer stadiums in a big way. And the RWC runs during the soccer season

That would be an even bigger problem if the SANZAR lot got their way and pushed the RWC back even more into the NH autumn so they could complete their Southern Hemisphere International Tournament first.

They could work it around the football season if they had a mind to. Play the football on the Saturday and the rugby on the Sunday. Remember that rugby is slowly growing in popularity in Italy, especially among sport stadium organisers who appreciate the low security costs and larger spend on refreshments of rugby as opposed to the football fans in Italy who do their best to have a scrap and can't be trusted to drink in their seats.

Many of the stadiums are owned by Italian clubs who aren't particularly well off and would see the chance to generate an extra revenue as a bonus, Italy has been hit by the Euro crisis and would be just as happy as Ireland to boost their tourism trade so the government may choose to 'make it happen'.

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Post by Feckless Rogue Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:13 pm

A home RWC in 2023 would be the perfect swansong for Brian O'Driscoll before he retires.
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Post by Thomond Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:33 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Does Ireland have the infastructure to deal with 10s of thousands of people flooding to the country for the games as well as putting up all the squads that will be travelling in? Belfast and Dublin will be ok but how well equipped is Cork etc? NZ is supposed to have struggled at the last RWC.

I would think it ridiculous if we had to use it in 2023 simply because of a loose arrangment made a quarter of a century ago. I'd tell the Welsh to feck off or else make do with Georgia v Namibia.

I'm still hoping England do the same in 2015. Wales should not get to play their games in Wales, that's cheating.


Cork City in itself is not massive, but more equipped to deal with this, in the City centre itself you have around 5/6 hotels and a plethora of B&Bs, hostels etc. People seem to forget that Ireland is very small, you can stay in parts of Cork (the largest county) and be within an hour of the city (20 minutes or less from PUC) same with most places in Ireland. Plenty of places to stay, our thousands of empty houses could be rented out for the tournament!

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Post by Guest Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:47 pm

I hope we (Wales) don't get any games at the MS. That would be ridiculous.

And I don't particularly want Wales games in Cardiff for the English world cup either, gentelman's agreement or not. It makes a mockery of the tournament. If they must then maybe some non-Wales games but only because of our proximity to London (compared to Newcastle, for example). Nothing else.

An Ireland world cup would be great. But, can you afford it (can anyone in the current climate???). Weren't NZ going to sue because of the cost they incurred or something similar??? Will the Irish tax payers mind this sort of expenditure in these harsh financial times? I know it wouldn't be for 20 years, but the bid would have to be started shortly and that would cost a fair bit, and a commitment would have to be made soon to x amount of expenditure in the future.

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Post by Guest Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:54 pm

* 10 years sorry, maths brain not working properly!

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Post by Thomond Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:59 pm

Redevelopment or expansion would be starting around 2017/2018 I would imagine, we will be out of major shoite The British will join Ireland in the financial darkness soon (not as dark, but Britain are in bad state too)

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Post by Portnoy Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:06 pm

Griff makes a good point. I think that an Irish bid, like most (all?) RWC bids, is most likely to have to be underwritten by the state. And although hopefully the western economy will have recovered substantially by then, what will be the end-game of the Euro zone? And when will that be?

When do RWC bids to the IRB have to be lodged by?
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Post by Thomond Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:11 pm

It is an issue Portnoy, but as I said, we will be out of the major trouble we are in now by the time redevelopment and major costs are needed. We will lose money on the tournament, but some will be spent within the country lie construction which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is a problem that could arise you are right on that, I think we can manage it anyway, finance won;t be as big a problem when the serious cash is needed a few years down the line.

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Post by red_stag Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:31 pm

I just read that NZRU called a loss of $31 million "very satisfactory" as they expected to lose over $40 million

Headscratch
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Post by profitius Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:21 pm

The problem with having big stadiums is filling them. The last thing you'd want is empty stadiums. People would go to matches though if a party atmostphere is created for a month. Ireland also have the advantage of being a small country with lots of trasnport to Britain and Europe.

Thomond wrote:
Cork City in itself is not massive, but more equipped to deal with this, in the City centre itself you have around 5/6 hotels and a plethora of B&Bs, hostels etc. People seem to forget that Ireland is very small, you can stay in parts of Cork (the largest county) and be within an hour of the city (20 minutes or less from PUC) same with most places in Ireland. Plenty of places to stay, our thousands of empty houses could be rented out for the tournament!

Try going to Mizen head from Cork city. Its almost 3 hours away.
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Post by Duigers Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:17 am

Not sure the'd be many games in Mizen head...

Finances of the state wont be an issue at all. We would get twice the amount of visitors as NZ.

The Bits could swim here if they wanted.. The French would arrive in their droves (80K French people and as many Italians live here as well)..

No, finances will not be an issue at all.

The issue will be politics and I can see the saffers spitting he dummy and demanding they have another go at it.

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Post by Duigers Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:18 am

*Brits not Bits...

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Post by Kingshu Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:42 am

Duigers wrote:*Brits not Bits...

From French Brittany?

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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:43 am

Hey guys, great to see people discussing this, we have a nice big thread on this in the international section so possibly merge????

https://www.606v2.com/t20096p250-ireland-to-host-rugby-world-cup-in-2023#1487412

Just on what Mick said above that Ireland could possibly be putting in a bid. I can tell you 100% that they are putting in one


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Post by Mickado Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:06 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Hey guys, great to see people discussing this, we have a nice big thread on this in the international section so possibly merge????

https://www.606v2.com/t20096p250-ireland-to-host-rugby-world-cup-in-2023#1487412

Just on what Mick said above that Ireland could possibly be putting in a bid. I can tell you 100% that they are putting in one


Class!

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Post by Thomond Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:40 am

profitius wrote:The problem with having big stadiums is filling them. The last thing you'd want is empty stadiums. People would go to matches though if a party atmostphere is created for a month. Ireland also have the advantage of being a small country with lots of trasnport to Britain and Europe.

Thomond wrote:
Cork City in itself is not massive, but more equipped to deal with this, in the City centre itself you have around 5/6 hotels and a plethora of B&Bs, hostels etc. People seem to forget that Ireland is very small, you can stay in parts of Cork (the largest county) and be within an hour of the city (20 minutes or less from PUC) same with most places in Ireland. Plenty of places to stay, our thousands of empty houses could be rented out for the tournament!

Try going to Mizen head from Cork city. Its almost 3 hours away.



Well yeah of course, Cork is a big county, I should have said not every place is close but you can travel from North to South in Ireland in 6 hours by car, if you do it right. Besides no one is staying in Mizen head for the World Cup!

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Post by Portnoy Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:09 pm

Look guys, if Ryanair took over the bid for the Irish RWC there'd be no problem with with finance.

After all their terms are clear and unequivocal (more or less) and a profit would be guaranteed.
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