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World Cup Qualifiers Thread: 16th October

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Post by GSC Sun 14 Oct 2012, 2:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

England head to Warsaw on Tuesday minus Theo Walcott to take on Euro 2012 co-hosts Poland in a Group H encounter. England start the day 3 points above Poland atop the group, having played a game more than their hosts who have managed 4 points from their opening 2 games. Poland are not a threat to be taken lightly boasting the likes of Robert Lewandowski and Jakub Błaszczykowski among their attacking threats in what promises to be a tough game for England.

The Republic of Ireland head to the Faroe Islands, needing to rebound majorly from a 6-1 hammering by Germany on Friday. Theres also an opportunity to gain ground on the leaders as Germany host Sweden.

Scotland face what amounts to a do or die qualifier in Belgium, as having dropped 8 points against the weaker teams in the group, they find themselves 5 points behind Belgium and Croatia. Not too many harder assignments than the 3rd most expensive squad in International football.

A win against Scotland eased some of the pressure off Chris Coleman, and they will look to build on their momentum when they travel to face Croatia. A tough ask minus Aaron Ramsey, but a win would really bring Wales into the mix in their group.

Finally Northern Ireland draw the toughest assignment of each arguably as they travel to Portugal, where a loss would probably push them out of contention altogether.
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Post by mystiroakey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:06 pm

well theres allways hart GSC..

gerrad and milner are away with the fairys today

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Post by GSC Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:08 pm

Playing Milner and Carrick against an energetic team away from home is asking for trouble.
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Post by Crimey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:10 pm

At least if Carrick keeps up performances like this people will stop claiming it's an outrage that he's not involved.

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Post by GSC Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:13 pm

Yeah throw a strop about not getting picked and retire. Get picked and have a 10% pass completion percentage. Of the most overhyped players in England because he gets in a pretty weak CM at United
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Post by Crimey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:16 pm

I'd like to see a bit of pace on the pitch, Poland are pushing people up, but there isn't anybody in the England side with the pace to take advantage of it. Chamberlain or Lennon would be perfect.

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Post by GSC Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:18 pm

Aye, its just far too negative playing Milner on the right because the opposition know hes going to struggle to beat most LBs.
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Post by Crimey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:21 pm

If I was Hodgson, I'd take off Milner and Cleverley for Ox and Lennon. I'd also take off Defoe who is struggling and put on Welbeck or Carroll who can hold the ball up as at the moment it's been cleared straight back to Poland.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:23 pm

fairplay to the polish FA for reimbusing the england fans that couldnt be there today.. We take these things for granted in this country-- but normally expect the worse in others!!

welbeck comes on and makes a great impact.. rooney should have buired that!!!

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Post by Crimey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:25 pm

Hodgson has to react now.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:25 pm

1-1 Sad

well done poland..

come on england- what ya made off!!

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:27 pm

totally deserved equaliser for Poland. England have been dreadful today so far.

Do people still think we're better off without Terry/Capello? Wink

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Post by Crimey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:28 pm

Bold from Hodgson to take off Rooney, still can't believe Milner is on the pitch...

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:31 pm

Welbeck, Milner, Lescott, so dire with the ball.
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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:31 pm

positives:
- Johnson has had a good game
- we're not losing (yet).

that's about it...

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:34 pm

Gerrard and Ashley are too old for international football now. Just retire already.
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Post by Crimey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:38 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Gerrard and Ashley are too old for international football now. Just retire already.

No such thing as too old, Pirlo was arguably the best player of Euro 2012 and he's older than both.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:44 pm

Crimey wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:Gerrard and Ashley are too old for international football now. Just retire already.

No such thing as too old, Pirlo was arguably the best player of Euro 2012 and he's older than both.
pirlo gets better with age but these two get worse.
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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:48 pm

This is Hodgson's sh*te tactics shining through..Glen Johnson used to be good at Portsmouth what happened to him??
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Post by Crimey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:51 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:This is Hodgson's sh*te tactics shining through..Glen Johnson used to be good at Portsmouth what happened to him??

He's been England's best player tonight by a country mile.

It's common knowledge that once a player joins Liverpool, they are no longer any good and are universally disliked. If Johnson moved to say Aston Villa or Everton tomorrow, he'd be praised heavily. Andy Carroll was praised at Newcastle, rubbished at Liverpool, praised with West Ham.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:53 pm

really??

anyway- I wish i didnt bother coming home early from work for that- It was awfull

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Post by Duty281 Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:55 pm

A draw isn't that bad a result. England are still in charge of the group, 6 points in the next double header will ensure plain sailing, the performance today just looked a little tired and there was little tempo to the game.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:56 pm

the result is fine duty- it was that performance!

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Post by Duty281 Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:57 pm

And before all the kneejerking starts, this is surely no worse a display than Germany, who drew 4-4 at home to Sweden, or Portugal, who drew at home to Northern Ireland.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:57 pm

mystiroakey wrote:the result is fine duty- it was that performance!

Both teams were poor, in truth. Joe Hart made the error that cost England 2 points, nothing else really troubled us.

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Post by Guest Wed 17 Oct 2012, 5:58 pm

Crimey wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:This is Hodgson's sh*te tactics shining through..Glen Johnson used to be good at Portsmouth what happened to him??

He's been England's best player tonight by a country mile.

It's common knowledge that once a player joins Liverpool, they are no longer any good and are universally disliked. If Johnson moved to say Aston Villa or Everton tomorrow, he'd be praised heavily. Andy Carroll was praised at Newcastle, rubbished at Liverpool, praised with West Ham.

The truest thing I've read in a while though why is anyone's guess.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 17 Oct 2012, 6:05 pm

what a crazy sentiment.. whos common knowledge is this? I have never ever heard anyone suggest anything of the sort.

If you think that carrol was less rated by other fans than the liverpool manager and board then I think your on the worng page. Carrol was only highly rated by liverpool in the first place- then when he gets his feet settled he gets pushed out- Distugusting behaviour. Johnson is the best we have in that position and he is a great asset to england.. However based on todays performance(as the rest of the team) we cant rate him!

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Post by HERSH Wed 17 Oct 2012, 6:07 pm

Laugh what a bunch of overpaid misfits.

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Post by GSC Wed 17 Oct 2012, 6:18 pm

Crimey wrote:Andy Carroll was praised at Newcastle, rubbished at Liverpool, praised with West Ham.

That might be because he cost 35m and was largely rubbish. Then praised at West Ham, because they actually played to his strengths and surprise, surprise, he plays well.
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Post by GSC Wed 17 Oct 2012, 6:20 pm

Anyway, crap performance from England, Hodgson continues to pick his favorites and England continue to play with the fear of losing. Theres no positivity or adventure.

And Carrick was complete **** tonight. Our answer to Spain's midfield? 26% passing accuracy. Please retire again Michael.
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Post by GSC Wed 17 Oct 2012, 6:21 pm

4 out of 11 Hodgson England games we end up with 1 shot on target. I'm in favour of scrapping the international break just so I don't have to watch England play.
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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed 17 Oct 2012, 6:40 pm

It's common knowledge that once a player joins Liverpool, they are no longer any good and are universally disliked.
Sahin and Joe Allen on the other hand look very good, i notice it's fine for Liverpool fans to criticise likes of Rooney, Welbeck, Cole but they don't like it when you criticise a few of theirs.
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Post by HERSH Wed 17 Oct 2012, 8:10 pm

What I don't get is that when I watch these guys play for their clubs they look quick and full of ideas, when the same players pull on an England shirt they look tired/lethargic and have no idea of how to score.

Is International football really a step up compared to club football?
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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed 17 Oct 2012, 8:48 pm

HERSH wrote:What I don't get is that when I watch these guys play for their clubs they look quick and full of ideas, when the same players pull on an England shirt they look tired/lethargic and have no idea of how to score.

Is International football really a step up compared to club football?
England rarely develops good midfielders.. look at Gerrard at Liverpool constantly carried by Xabi Alonso, then Lucas/Kuyt. Same with Lampard at Chelsea and Carrick at Man U.
The defence has generally been a good position for England but the midfield is so bad and slow off the mark that its not a surprise we get dominated and sit back.
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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 17 Oct 2012, 11:50 pm

as I said with 15 minutes to go or so, positives:

- Johnson played well
- we didn't lose (and a draw in Poland is a decent result)

that's it. we need Terry back (our best player at the Euros) as it's clear Gerrard struggles to inspire England the way he does Liverpool. Carrick was absolutely rubbish tonight, man u fans reckon he's a very fine player but I've very rarely seen him produce anything for England. Rooney was shocking too (his goal was a fluke, and he should have killed the game off just before we conceded). In fact everyone else (apart from Johnson, and maybe Jagielka) was poor.

Also, why does Hodgson think playing without wingers is going to work? Defoe and Rooney has never really clicked as a partnership either, would rather start Wellbeck with Rooney.

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Post by nasisillmatic Thu 18 Oct 2012, 9:33 am

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
HERSH wrote:What I don't get is that when I watch these guys play for their clubs they look quick and full of ideas, when the same players pull on an England shirt they look tired/lethargic and have no idea of how to score.

Is International football really a step up compared to club football?
England rarely develops good midfielders.. look at Gerrard at Liverpool constantly carried by Xabi Alonso, then Lucas/Kuyt. Same with Lampard at Chelsea and Carrick at Man U.
The defence has generally been a good position for England but the midfield is so bad and slow off the mark that its not a surprise we get dominated and sit back.

Funniest comment I've read all week.

Gerrard being carried by Alonso, Lucas & Kuyt? Please explain.

Lampard being carried at Chelsea? All of his career or just lately?

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Post by nasisillmatic Thu 18 Oct 2012, 9:39 am

I think people are finally seeing Hodgons' boring tactics in full flow.

These performances are what we had at Liverpool for nearly 6 months, can people start to see why he wasn't popular with fans and had to go?

He does not like using wingers, and when he does he wants them to not attack but "tuck in" and be more defensive minded. He doesn't like centre backs who can actually bring the out of defense and are comfortable in possesion. He will never change his tactics even when results are very bad because "these tactics have worked for me for 30 years".

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 9:49 am

not being funny but rooney did more in defence than jakeilka!!!!

The fact is hodgsons tactics was horrid last nigh- and rooney shoulntd be spending half the night defending!!

We need to be sweeping teams like this off there feet.. not go back to that positional (defend deep)game we played in the Euros!!

crazy negative tactics- combined with lathargic players


and i am gonna be honest (although i dont share this view that everyone ahs that rooney was that bad)

England have recently play much better without him- i woul,dnt even play him at the moment..

when we have rooney so deep and add carrick and gerrard who are just going for hollywood passes all night!! what the heck is the point!

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Thu 18 Oct 2012, 10:44 am

England have recently play much better without him- i woul,dnt even play him at the moment..
Yep and this is because the players in England are pressured into giving him the ball and forget that every player is just as important than him it is very similar to Cristiano Ronaldo at Portugal who is a level above his team mates and they are pressured to giving him the ball not thinking clearly enough to make a better pass.
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Post by Crimey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 11:54 am

Except Cristiano Ronaldo is genuinely world class, Rooney is just a very good player.

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Post by Crimey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 11:54 am

nasisillmatic wrote:I think people are finally seeing Hodgons' boring tactics in full flow.

These performances are what we had at Liverpool for nearly 6 months, can people start to see why he wasn't popular with fans and had to go?

He does not like using wingers, and when he does he wants them to not attack but "tuck in" and be more defensive minded. He doesn't like centre backs who can actually bring the out of defense and are comfortable in possesion. He will never change his tactics even when results are very bad because "these tactics have worked for me for 30 years".

Which is why he nearly pressured Daniel Agger out of the club.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm

Crimey wrote:Except Cristiano Ronaldo is genuinely world class, Rooney is just a very good player.
not talking about whether he is world class, though he did have spells of it, like the 2010 season where he single handed beat Milan at san siro.

The importance of him as same as Ronaldo for Portugal, but both teams seem to perform just as good without their best player.
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Post by GSC Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:12 pm

Rooney has been world class at times.
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Post by Crimey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:14 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Crimey wrote:Except Cristiano Ronaldo is genuinely world class, Rooney is just a very good player.
not talking about whether he is world class, though he did have spells of it, like the 2010 season where he single handed beat Milan at san siro.

The importance of him as same as Ronaldo for Portugal, but both teams seem to perform just as good without their best player.

My point is when Portugal try to direct things through Ronaldo it is a lot more successful than when England try to direct things through Rooney, because Ronaldo is better than every other player in the world bar Messi, Rooney isn't even close to that level. Portugal would not have got as far in Euro 2012 without Ronaldo, England would have got to the same position without Rooney.

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Post by Crimey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:15 pm

GSC wrote:Rooney has been world class at times.

I think to be called world class, you have to be at that level consistently though, only Ronaldo and Messi really fall into that level. While both of those have the odd off days, Rooney has a world class game as often as they have poor games.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:15 pm

Yep thats true Crimey.

I personaly dont like to blame rooney himself for this though. But he allways becomes the number one target for many..

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Post by GSC Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm

It ended last time after he broke his foot in Munich then was rushed back in about 2 weeks. Was 100% as a result for the WC or the first half of the season when he ended up out of form.

Still scored 27 league goals last season before getting hurt.

As for the England thing, every England player seemingly underperforms while wearing it.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:28 pm

"As for the England thing, every England player seemingly underperforms while wearing it."

ashley cole?
john terry?
joe hart?
defoe?
walcot?
crouch?


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Post by GSC Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:34 pm

ashley cole? An exception, but 1 of England's few genuine world class players
john terry? Meh, don't think hes that good to begin with
joe hart? Mistake last night? Reputation bigger than his talent atm.
defoe? 1 in 3 at international level, 1 in under 2.5 at Spurs against better competition?
walcot? Goal at the Euros was first since hat trick vs Croatia in 2008
crouch? An anomaly in that he actually plays better for England than his club. Quite a lot of his goals vs the bottom feeders of international football also

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:41 pm

Re: Defoe- his record was dire to start with- but over the last couple of years much better- I believe he perfoms these days..

Also i think wellbeck has been playing fine and turning up- Add ox to that as well.

I dont want to just have a pop at england as a whole here- there are a few that really do try

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World Cup Qualifiers Thread: 16th October - Page 2 Empty Re: World Cup Qualifiers Thread: 16th October

Post by GSC Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:58 pm

Surprisingly they aren't the older generation scarred by past failures.

Not particularly expecting much from Welbeck though
GSC
GSC

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World Cup Qualifiers Thread: 16th October - Page 2 Empty Re: World Cup Qualifiers Thread: 16th October

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