Edinburgh being left behind?

Kingshu wrote:I'd say there would have been a relegration clause, or if not Sale may want him off the books if then went into championship, If Glasgow want him back, they should hope Sales form continues.Dlasgow have some depth now even Troy Nathan isn't getting a game!

Glasgow build good squad get some really good Players, move to Scotstoun Stadium, some exciting players as well, just look at the players in this season
Angus Macdonald
Tim Swinson
Viliami Ma'afu
Sean Lamont
Taylor Paris
Nikola Matawalu
Josh Strauss
Sean Maitland

The Lamont's back and Maitland are big pluses, if Glasgow can fill Scotstoun now they will be th ecomplete team, ready to push up to among the best in Europe

13th in Euro table but should break into top 10.
It would be an exciting time to be a Glasgow fan, things are finally being put in place by the SRU

This quote got me thinking.

Now I don't want this to become a Weagie vs. Burgh bashing thread (Schiz Take note please you nutter ). But I can't help but think Edinburgh are now being thouroughly left behind.

I think it's anyones guess how the SRU control funding to the pro clubs. Do they combine thier funds and split it 50-50? Do the Franchises get to keep their profits? Are they autonimous in their own finances?

Anyway to cut a long story short are Edinburgh being left behind? Or have they made a rod for their own back by signing useless guys like Atiga or giving Ford such a lucrative contract or papping Ryan Grant without giving the lad a chance?

All I'm seeing is the likes of Maitland coming to Glasgow, Bennet returning to Glasgow, and thinking, why aren't Edinburgh getting some of these guys? The Glasgow back division now is getting promptly saturated with Talent. Couple that with a glorious new stadium and you can see why us Edinburgh fans are feeling ever so slightly neglected. The Strength in depth in the Glasgow Back division is phenomenal now and compare it to Edinburgh, where a couple of untimely injuries could see Houston and King back in the squad.

I'm genuinly not bitter about it, Jealous would be a better terminology that RDW has used in various threads. I'm not blind to the fact that what's good for Glasgow will also be good for Scottish rugby as a whole, but after the success of last seasons HC for Edinburgh I can't help we are falling behind, and falling behind rapidly.

What happened to all that money we got from doing so well in the HC? If some of it has been used to get Maitland playing for the Warriors would I be ok to say that it has made me a bit ?

Or has Bradley blown it on players he should have avoided like you would avoid a kiss from your great great grand mother?

Or are Glasgow reaping the benefits with their brand new intimate stadium and X-Factor players and creating an enviroment where players want to play for the club?

Compare a packed Scotstoun to 10000 people in Murrayfield..... go figure.

A lot of points to discuss but I'm opening the floor to you guys.

On paper Edinburgh's signings all looked very good. Nel, van der Westhuizen and Atiga were all highly rated. I don't think they are really players you would avoid. Think Edinburghs problems this season are much more psychological.

Artful_Dodger wrote:On paper Edinburgh's signings all looked very good. Nel, van der Westhuizen and Atiga were all highly rated. I don't think they are really players you would avoid. Think Edinburghs problems this season are much more psychological.

I agree there could be psychological reasons.

Glasgow team may feel like the little brother so always want to get one over their East Coast rival. Always striving to get a better league position - Al Kellock epitomises this for me.

Murrayfield as thier training base may feel too cosy. Then the old story of the stadium being too big so makes it feel strange place to play.

Artful_Dodger wrote:On paper Edinburgh's signings all looked very good. Nel, van der Westhuizen and Atiga were all highly rated. I don't think they are really players you would avoid. Think Edinburghs problems this season are much more psychological.

Tend to agree. they simply collapsed in the HC games. Laidlaw in particular looked like arabbit caught in headlights.

I think Ford is complacent and needs to warm the bench for a while but the issues run deep.

Their poor start to the season seems to have affected the mentality within the camp as everyone continues to mention the HC run, while forgetting that their league form last season was terrible. 6 wins, 1 draw, 15 losses and shipping 65 tries, doesn’t make good reading, with Bradley only surviving because of the HC. When the players were down about the league form they had the HC to bring them back up, which would have made them more determined to succeed. That’s not the case this season. With the exception of Blair there weren’t any significant departures from the squad so it seems to be in the players heads. Couple that with Glasgow’s performance of late and it can’t be easy to take. Ryan grant himself said that Edinburgh was full of cliques whereas Glasgow is one big happy family. Is this one of the problems? Are some egos too big to be in the same room? Its common knowledge that Maitland’s signing was outside Glasgow’s budget but it had been in the works for a long time and the SRU would’ve been crazy to not go through with it. Would it have made more sense to have him at Edinburgh? Perhaps. Did Edinburgh make a mistake by spending too much too early on the likes of Yapp, Reece and Atiga (who will surely be gone after this season)? It seems like a change is needed at Edinburgh, something to get the players motivated and excited again, and we could see that sooner rather than later.

I don't think the quality of players is the problem at Edinburgh, as mentioned they are mostly the same ones who did so well in the Heineken Cup last year, and most of the additions are better than the second choice players they replaced. 7 Edinburgh players also started in the Scotland side that stood toe to toe with the All Blacks for long periods of Saturday's game, under a different set of coaches. That suggests to me that poor coaching or tactics is the problem. It does seem that when you compare with Glasgow, maybe Edinburgh are due a bit of investment, but if so, it should go towards paying off the contracts of the coaching staff and bringing in quality replacements.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

What happened to all that money we got from doing so well in the HC? If some of it has been used to get Maitland playing for the Warriors would I be ok to say that it has made me a bit ?

As I understand it, all bonus revenue received via Rabo/HC finals is split equally between the two teams regardless of who 'earned' it.

...reminds me of the wife

I never rated Bradley as a coach, most Connacht fans of his time they weren't to fond of him, and I think he'd be under a lot of pressure if it wasn't for one game last year (Toulouse).

Glasgow though do seam to be getting the better signings at present, the Lamont bro's back, Barnett (sp) Strauss, Sean Maitland, Macdonald
are all players that would get into most teams first XV and Glasgow got them all

look at Edinburghs signings
John Yapp
WP Nel
Izak van der Westhuizen
Perry-John Parker f
Dimitri Basilaia
Richie Rees
Greig Tonks
Ben Atiga
Mike Penn
Andy Titterrell

and Glasgows
Angus Macdonald
Tim Swinson
Viliami Ma'afu
Sean Lamont
Taylor Paris
Nikola Matawalu
Josh Strauss
Sean Maitland


Glasgow did by far and away better, I don't know if someone from SRU picks these players out and Glasgow and Edindurgh fight over them, are the players given a choice, or do the teams look for them and ask for SRU approvial?

If you swapped this years signings edinburgh may be doing better.

Another thing I thought Edinburghs run to semi final was a bit discieving, they were 2nd bottom in League, but semi final in H-cup, which one was the real Edinburgh? truth was they did well in Hcup, but group was one of the easiest and they had one great game against Toulose.

Glasgow in the meantime went quietly about there buiness and made top 4 in Leauge.

So when this year started, we knew Glasgow would be a decent tough team, and are proving a bit better than this. but there were question marks over Edinburgh.

I think the SRU having got Glasgow a new ground a good first team and depth will shift focus now to Edinburgh, who still have a good team, but need some new ground (training fields with stands anything- I know the options have been explored here but let the new SRU look at it anew, and not with the old penney pinching SRU view) a few good signing and Edinburgh could really be lifted again, after all I said that they did get a decieptive run to semi final, but it still wasn't an easay one and they put in a number of good performances to do it. They just need to be playing at that standard all the time, not just big games. (Connacht had same issues under Bradley, could beat Leinster but then lose to Dragons etc at home), I don't think Bradley is the man for the job, and he'd already be gone if they hadn't beaten Toulouse.

Again I think its time for a new coach for edinburgh. when players play below their potential the buck must stop with the coach. this season is already a write off for them

I think the point about the Glasgow signings seems to be that quite a few were in the works before Lineen left. Maitland was certainly and I'm sure the Strauss one was looked at from the point of view that Ma'afu had arrived and uped and left again. So yes Glasgow can be seen to have gotten the better end of the deal but they also have MacDonald, who is out with a neck injury, Ma'afu who left before he even set foot on the training pitch, Paris who's only 19 and didn't start until two weeks ago...

There's also the factor of how happy the Glasgow boys seem to be compared to their Edinburgh counterparts... Even Sean Lamont, a famously dour bar steward is smiling and enjoying his rugby... It's a big family with Al as the grumpy dad!

Manky-Flanker wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

What happened to all that money we got from doing so well in the HC? If some of it has been used to get Maitland playing for the Warriors would I be ok to say that it has made me a bit ?

As I understand it, all bonus revenue received via Rabo/HC finals is split equally between the two teams regardless of who 'earned' it.

...reminds me of the wife

Yours actually lets you spend money does she?

Radge - ya radge - nutter eh !!!!!!

In all seriousness there is certainly a lot of Lineen in the signings. He knows where his loyalties lie after the way he was abysmally treated by Big Bro ! A few seasons ago I thought it was Edinburgh who got all the big names - esp when they seemed to sign any decent centre in the country and we had Morrison with his one dimensional game. It all balances out fella.

Get on a train and come on down to Scotstoun one Friday - cracking night no matter the score. Maybe avoid 21 December as it could get messy IYKWIM

PS Don't bring IBD - he is a baw bag !

Glad you made this a topic radge.

It is tough seeing the weedge doing well and Edinburgh so pish, but as you say I'm genuinely delighted for Glasgow. I shout and scream at the TV supporting Glasgow games as I do Edinburgh ones!

In terms of Edinburgh signings I am pretty happy with most of them, apart from Atiga. I reckon he'll be on decent money and has been absolutely hopeless - must have played around 2% of the possible game time this season. The other one is Mike Penn (who??) - haven't seen him since pre season, although granted he won't be on much money.

I think Edinburgh were caught napping at the start of the season and have not recovered. Bradley's rotation policy was crazy (front row and back row one week on, one week off - no continuity) and it was clear some players just weren't fit.

By this point we had lost several games, all our confidence and it seems all our ability to score and defend.

A lot of this blame should be placed on the Scotland players too - they have not been good all season for Edinburgh, Scott and De Luca aside.

I agree if we don't do well in the 1872 Bradley has to go.

Scot Abroad wrote:

Manky-Flanker wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

What happened to all that money we got from doing so well in the HC? If some of it has been used to get Maitland playing for the Warriors would I be ok to say that it has made me a bit ?

As I understand it, all bonus revenue received via Rabo/HC finals is split equally between the two teams regardless of who 'earned' it.

...reminds me of the wife

Yours actually lets you spend money does she?

You guys still have money?

I also want to make it clear I'm delighted when the Weege do well. I want Glasgow to win every game, save the new year fixtures.

So I am glad that you guys are doing so well. As I said, whats good for Glasgow is good for Scotland. I think that feeling is mutual judging by the ammount of Weegies that I bumped into after the Toulouse game.

I think the main reason for my envy at the moment is Scotstoun. It looks great on the telly, can't wait to visit on Black Friday!

Forgot to say that the rotation of stand offs hasn't been good either - Hunter played in pre-season then wasn't seen again for 6 weeks or so, Leonard got some game time early on but was similarly dropped straight away!

An article in The Hootsman last week suggested that if things don't improve by xmas Bradley will be gone and the SRU will appoint Sean Lineen as caretaker coach.

I'll see if I can find a link.

What do you guys think? Do you want him?

1872 Cup should be good this year.

For Edinburgh its a chance to salvage some pride, (think we can write off Europe and chance of making the play offs for them), for Glasgow its their chance to show they are the number one team in Scotland, (something that could be argued if Edinburgh hold the 1872 cup).

While Glasgow are ahead of Edinburgh at present, Edinburgh still have a good team and a lot of people were predicting that they would kick on and finish in top 6 this year, they are still capable of beating anyone at home, but are also as likley to lose to anyone as well.

I hope the SRU are focasing on them and a move from Murreyfield, I know in 2007 they looked at Meggetland
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/edinburgh-ponder-ground-switch-to-meggetland-1-1350995

Capacity 3500 but wasn't Scotstoun Stadium capacity 5,000, and they can use tempory stand to increase it to 9000, maybe a look again at Meggetland as the new SRU running of the pro teams means they may be willing to invest to bring capacity up. Edinburghs League home games have a crowd average of 4000.
Temporary stands at a back pitch in Murreyfield? Not sure the old SRU would want to invest in this but feel the new SRU may.

However I am more confident that the SRU will find a solution, as old SRU looked and found reasons to reject options, new SRU may be more willing to do work and invest to make some options viable.

looks like sean lineen gets all the hard jobs and clearly does the best job of the lot

Would be good to not have this turn into a debate about where Edinburgh can move to, because we have had so many of them on here, but the jist is that the only options are Murrayfield back pitches or Meadowbank refurb.

As for Lineen, would be strange having him as coach but wouldn't be against it. Also makes you wonder how important his new job really is if they're happy for him to take over a pro team for half a season??

RDW_Scotland wrote:Would be good to not have this turn into a debate about where Edinburgh can move to, because we have had so many of them on here, but the jist is that the only options are Murrayfield back pitches or Meadowbank refurb.

As for Lineen, would be strange having him as coach but wouldn't be against it. Also makes you wonder how important his new job really is if they're happy for him to take over a pro team for half a season??

I would say it (his job) is pretty important if he can get Maitland into the Navy Blue of Scotland.

Failure to win the 1872 Cup and Bradley must go. It's as simple as that as far as I'm concerned.

In terms of caretaker coach, Lineen would be an obvious candidate. Better to have a short term caretaker and get the right guy in long term than just settle from within and end up with another Moffatt on your hands.

I think Bradley has done an awful job this season. His team selections, tactics and the organisation of every set pieces and defensive pattern Edinburgh have deployed this season have been woeful. He is ultimately responsible.

I'm not one to ignore players from the blame game either. Where has Talei been this season? Does Grant Gilchrist think he's made it already? Ross Ford's throwing has gone backwards (and sideways)! Laidlaw has been poor. Scott has been average. Jones started the season playing like he wanted to be dropped. Brown has mixed the good, the bad and the ugly. Dave Denton seems to be saving himself for the Lions, forgetting that form is rather important to get picked.

I don't think thought that Edinburgh are being "left behind". There is a lot of talent in the Edinburgh side, and if you were to pick a combined team assuming all are fit and on form, I think there would be a fair few Edinburgh representatives (see below). The issue is really that none of the Edinburgh players are showing form this season, but they don't become bad players overnight.

1. Welsh 2.Ford 3.Cusack 4.Kellock 5.Cox 6.Harley 7.Rennie 8.Denton 9.Cusiter 10.Laidlaw 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.DTH 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

"As I understand it, all bonus revenue received via Rabo/HC finals is split equally between the two teams regardless of who 'earned' it.

...reminds me of the wife "

does this make glasgow our wife?

Where is my tea Glasgow?????????

Back to topic though!
I don't want lineen as the next edinburgh coach. I want him as the scotland coach with robbo going back to edinburgh! Just my opinion but there you go!
Edinburgh are being left behind. But it is not due to glasgow favourtisim its down to edinburgh not getting the finger out and performing like they should be! The players seem to have no confidence in thier team mates. It's almost a case of "I need to bosh up the middle coz if I pass to that eejit he'll knock on/get turned over/get knocked on his backside"

things need to be turned around pronto!

tigertattie wrote:"As I understand it, all bonus revenue received via Rabo/HC finals is split equally between the two teams regardless of who 'earned' it.

...reminds me of the wife "

does this make glasgow our wife?

Where is my tea Glasgow?????????

Back to topic though!
I don't want lineen as the next edinburgh coach. I want him as the scotland coach with robbo going back to edinburgh! Just my opinion but there you go!
Edinburgh are being left behind. But it is not due to glasgow favourtisim its down to edinburgh not getting the finger out and performing like they should be! The players seem to have no confidence in thier team mates. It's almost a case of "I need to bosh up the middle coz if I pass to that eejit he'll knock on/get turned over/get knocked on his backside"

things need to be turned around pronto!

Well said Tattie - Robinson could not be any worse with Edinburgh than with Scotland i.e. we have gone backwards faster that with Williams and Hadden. Sean Lineen deserves it after his heroic efforts at Glasgow.

Were Lineen's efforts that heroic? In his 8 (?) years at Glasgow they didn't qualify for the quarters, and only twice finished in the top 4 of the league.

Not saying Edinburgh have been any better, just think it's a bit much to call it heroic! In fact if I remember correctly a few years ago people were calling for him to be dropped.

Robinson did do a good job with Edinburgh, so good he got the Scotland job out of it.

but would be accept being demoted, if removed from the Scotland job, he could go to clubs in England, maybe even Wales. Would he want to go back to Edinburgh? I don't hink he would.

Cardiff, Deagons could do with a ne coach but I don't think either will intrest him, Sale on the other hand?!

Robinson is a good club coach and a poor international coach. Lineen is not the man for Scotland either I don't think - but he should have been left with glasgow.

For scotland we need a young ambitious coach from outside.
Todd Blackadder would be my choice

I think blackadder will be a future NZ coach - can't see him coming to Scotland

Agree can't see Blackadder coming back to Scotland, from what i have heard he is definitely being groomed as the future NZ coach probably after the 2015 world cup.

As an Edinburgh fan i am really disappointed with the way things are going at Edinburgh this season and agree Glasgow are streaks ahead of us. It is great for Scottish rugby that Glasgow are really pushing on now but does make me envious.

There was a lot of talk of the great signings being made at Edinburgh during the summer but some of them just don't seem to have worked out for whatever reason and some of the players signed just don't have the quality we need to improve Edinburgh.
Ben Atiga is a great lad but he wasn't fit when we signed him as he has had a long standing hip injury which still isn't clearing. Perry Parker has added nothing to the 2nd row dept and is an area we are still struggling in for depth and experience.
I think a change in coach would do a world of good at Edinburgh as there is a bit of disharmony within the camp in regards to the coaching style and tactics being employed at the moment which the players are not buying into.
I don't think it would take much to sort out the team, a bit more confidence and a couple of additional players with proven talent would get us back on track.

Good on Glasgow though for getting things on track but does it look as if they maybe have too many players now. Some are really going to struggle for game time now.

I really dont see how we can claim Robinson is worse than Hadden or Williams. THis is Matt Williams who led us to what 3 victories in 2 years? Against Samoa, Italy and Japan. Not quite the same as a double over the wallabies, Argies, and Springboks (hopefully).

Hes got his issues, and has probably overstayed his welcome, but anyone who seriously believes we are worse off under him than Hadden or Williams needs their head examined.

oh and schizoid you're a classy guy.

Agreed, we are definitely a lot far better off than we have been in recent years. We still have some fine tuning to do but the strength and depth of the team is far better than it has been. Robinson still may not be the best selector at times but as a coach he is good.
With the additions to the coaching team and selection panel I think some of Robinson issues with being a poor selector will be erased.

I'm not sure about Blackadder being NZ coach though. He hasn't won the Super Rugby in 4 attempts with some wonderful players to choose from. Rennie has got it 1 out of 1. Jamie Joseph is doing a very good job of pulling together a team out of nothing (but not made the semis yet).

He'll have some competition if he doesn't win the bl**dy thing soon.

Majestic83 wrote: Good on Glasgow though for getting things on track but does it look as if they maybe have too many players now. Some are really going to struggle for game time now.

This thought has gone through my head as well. The squad is huge now, and especially crammed in the back-line. Take the centers as an example: Morrison, Horne, Dunbar, McGuigan, Bennett & Nathan all looking for a starting spot; add in Bruce Dick and James Johnstone from the EDP program, and there is going to be a number of dissapointed players each week.

I suppose this brings us onto the 3rd pro team argument - its hard to see how the EDP guys are ever going to get a chance within the current structure.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think blackadder will be a future NZ coach - can't see him coming to Scotland

Scotland would be a good stepping stone for him tho on his way - we could get 2 or 3 good years out of him

as a smaller nation we have a choice in coaches -
patriotic scots - (none good enough around now the there may be in the future)
People who have previously failed - ie Robinson
Second rate coaches - ie Williams.

The only way we will get top talent in coaches is to get the ambitious guys on their way up - hence Blackadder or someone like him who would use it a as stepping stone to a top job. How good would it be for his reputation to take Scotland from 9th in the world to say 5th? Be a good addition to the CV.

On Robinson he is a disaster as a coach. Plunging down the rankings, failure at the WC and a whitewash in the 6N. How is he still in the job? he was directly responsible for both with his crap selections and his treatment of players is disgusting. The way he treated Parks after the England debacle? the refusal to play Weir and then dropping him from the squad without even a minute on the pitch? You could see the confidence and form had gone from him when he went back to Glasgow.

Agreed - the Glasgow backline has massive strength in depth now. Looking at strength in depth:

Edinburgh-Glasgow Better depth?

Scrum half

Rees, Leck, Black Cusiter, Pyrgos, Flying Fijian Winner - Glasgow

Stand off

Laidlaw, Hunter, Leonard Jackson, Weir, Wight Winner - Glasgow

Centre

De Luca, Scott, Atiga, Houston, King, Cairns Morrison, Dunbar, Horne, McGuigan, Nathan Winner - draw

Back 3

Visser, Jones, Fife, Visser jnr, Penn, Farndale, Tonks, Brown DTH, SLamont, Ramont, Seymore, Maitland, Paris, Hogg, Murchie Winner - Glasgow by a long shot

RDW_Scotland wrote:Agreed - the Glasgow backline has massive strength in depth now. Looking at strength in depth:

Edinburgh-Glasgow Better depth?

Scrum half

Rees, Leck, Black Cusiter, Pyrgos, Flying Fijian Winner - Glasgow

Stand off

Laidlaw, Hunter, Leonard Jackson, Weir, Wight Winner - Glasgow

Centre

De Luca, Scott, Atiga, Houston, King, Cairns Morrison, Dunbar, Horne, McGuigan, Nathan Winner - draw

Back 3

Visser, Jones, Fife, Visser jnr, Penn, Farndale, Tonks, Brown DTH, SLamont, Ramont, Seymore, Maitland, Paris, Hogg, Murchie Winner - Glasgow by a long shot

Good summation RDW. I feel that where both teams have struggled (and thus the national team) has been in the inside back department. A 10/12 of real quality, would make a huge difference to both teams. Hopefully in the next few years the likes of Leonard, Dunbar, Horne & Scott can make that progression.

With the squad depth that Edinburgh and Glasgow are now building thier could be an arguement made for a 3rd Pro team again

(this would also help relieve some of the H-cup pressure of Scotlands 2 teams getting automatic entry to H-cup), SRU should seriously be looking at entering a 3rd team again next year, to relieve the pressure that they may lose H-cup spots.

So Border Reivers traditional heartland of Scottish rugby or Caledonia Reds in Aberdeen where the 3rd internation, has shown there is support for Rugby?

Borders rugby won't work all the while rowns like Kelso, Jed, Melrose, Gala and Hawick feel more loyalty to their club as opposed to the province.

A 3rd pro team would be great and most certainly should form in Aberdeen.

Will it happen in the next few years? Doubtful.

I think what is clear is that we have the players to make a 3rd - Connacht like - pro team in Scotland.

However, I think the thing holding it back is that it would not be a viable business option for the SRU. As the borders showed a new 3rd team will have to be made up of young guys and old pros returning home, and so might struggle to attract a fan base and would not receive much external sponsorship.

Look at Glasgow - they're doing really well just now but still don't have a shirt sponsor! And when they do get one it's probably going to be for pennies.

I agree, Aberdeen as a city is prospering; shielded from the financial situation faced by many regions, due to the oil and gas sector. It also has a large and diverse population catchment area, with which to support a pro team.

For the future of Scottish rugby it needs to happen. I am hopeful that with the new SRU regime in place, it will be part of a long term plan.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think what is clear is that we have the players to make a 3rd - Connacht like - pro team in Scotland.

However, I think the thing holding it back is that it would not be a viable business option for the SRU. As the borders showed a new 3rd team will have to be made up of young guys and old pros returning home, and so might struggle to attract a fan base and would not receive much external sponsorship.

Look at Glasgow - they're doing really well just now but still don't have a shirt sponsor! And when they do get one it's probably going to be for pennies.

I think a well marketed team, based in Aberdeen, would succeed/wash its face as an entity. Reasons below:

Relatively large population base.
Two Universities and a couple of colleges.
Vibrant local economy.
Geographically separate from Glasgow and Edinburgh.

It would undoubtedly be a challenge, but if done right I think it could work.

Sigh

not the "3rd pro team" debate again.

earlier in this thread we were dicussing the lack of depth at Edinburgh which could result in the likes of King coming back into the sqaud. Now we are saying there is plenty depth andwe should take some players and put them into a 3rd pro team?

The only way we will get a 3rd pro team is if the two we currently have become financially sustainable and sucessful in the competitions they enter.

The problem is that a 3rd pro team would probably have to result in Glasgow and Edinburgh having reduced budgets, which might undo all the good work done in the past few years.

For me a new pro team would have to be privately funded - but we know what happened last time!

tigertattie wrote:Sigh

not the "3rd pro team" debate again.

earlier in this thread we were dicussing the lack of depth at Edinburgh which could result in the likes of King coming back into the sqaud. Now we are saying there is plenty depth andwe should take some players and put them into a 3rd pro team?

The only way we will get a 3rd pro team is if the two we currently have become financially sustainable and sucessful in the competitions they enter.

Aye, it has been done to death. And I take the point that the other two have to be on a firm footing before a 3rd team is looked at. In my opinion through, the long term success of Scottish rugby lies in creating increased playing opportunities in the pro ranks.

"SCOTLAND coach Andy Robinson has revealed that he tried to sign the Springbok star Ruan Pienaar for Edinburgh long before the scrum-half opted for a move to Ulster." http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/andy-robinson-i-tried-to-sign-boks-star-ruan-pienaar-1-2633660 Now that's a kick in the teeth.

GLove39 wrote:"SCOTLAND coach Andy Robinson has revealed that he tried to sign the Springbok star Ruan Pienaar for Edinburgh long before the scrum-half opted for a move to Ulster." http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/andy-robinson-i-tried-to-sign-boks-star-ruan-pienaar-1-2633660 Now that's a kick in the teeth.

If only,,,,

Ulster were trying to get Peel at the time, but he was just using them to get a better deal with Sale, it fell through and we got Pienaar, very happy with that result, tries to get Rush but we know what happened there, got Wannenburg instead, happy again.
Seams that emergency signings work out well, Panye injured for season, get Terblanche at last minute on short term deal.

In hindsight I'm actually pretty disappointed Edinburgh didn't get a big name signing this summer. When I found out we had money to spend I was so excited that we'd get a big name in but it never happened. W P Nel is probably the biggest signing but he is not exactly in the marquee category.

We seem to have gone for 8 average squad players and 2 good player, as opposed to 1 or 2 big signings and 6 average squad players. Would happily sacrifice Atiga, Penn and PJP for one stand out player!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

GLove39 wrote:"SCOTLAND coach Andy Robinson has revealed that he tried to sign the Springbok star Ruan Pienaar for Edinburgh long before the scrum-half opted for a move to Ulster." http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/andy-robinson-i-tried-to-sign-boks-star-ruan-pienaar-1-2633660 Now that's a kick in the teeth.

If only,,,,

Well, Pienaar came to Ulster despite getting several much more lucrative offers from clubs in England and France. He came for various reasons (his friend Muller spoke highly of the club and the city, guaranteed rugby at 9 etc.) but one of the big ones was because David Humphreys was able to sell his vision of an Ulster side climbing the standings to become the best in Europe and he wanted to be a part of that.

From before Muller and Pienaar signed, Shane Logan and David Humphreys were targeting being the best side in Europe, a goal we're still working towards. Bear in mind the season immediately before those signings were made Edinburgh finished higher than Ulster in the league.

Once Edinburgh have upper management and a coach with the same drive to make the team one of the powerhouses of European Rugby and the cash to back it up, thats when you'll get the marquee signings.

Kingshu wrote:With the squad depth that Edinburgh and Glasgow are now building thier could be an arguement made for a 3rd Pro team again

Depth??? Edinburgh haven't scored a point in the HC yet and are getting humped in the Rabo, and you're talking about depth!!

Simply bringing in players and having a bigger squad has nothing to do with depth.

We have a long way to go before we can talk sensibly about a 3rd pro side.