Novak cheated a point enroute to winning the title

First topic message reminder :

For all gamesmanship thingy raised in this forum, let me bring a stat, I guess most of the forum members who watched the match between Del Po and Djoko are aware of it, Djoko cheated a point and the momentum from Del Boy.

Del Po was up a set and a break in 2nd set, in the mid of the 2nd set Del Po played a great drop shot, and it double bounced just before it hit the racket of Djoko, Djoko should be clearly aware of it , yet he claimed the point, poor Del Po could do nothing than carry on with the game, a good sportsmanship would be to either concede the point or go to the umpire and explain that he is unsure whether the ball was double bounce or not, but rather he kept the point enroute to win and the title.

In my view it just shows Nole is desperate for win and wanted to win somehow rather than genuinely beat the opponents out with the skill, I remember the same country men Tipsy concede the point several times in his career to the opponent when the point didn't belong to him, hope in the future Djoko learns something from his close friend. At the end of the day Nole know his win is a bit tainted and didn't come 100% genuine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvaAaDVBBa8

Link added above , it clearly shows DP was furious that nobody accounted the double bounce.

LS, as I said earlier:
Nothing changes momentum like not telling the umpire that you had already lost the point after already losing the point in a game you were about to lose

Given Novak has a 7-2 (winning 17 sets out of 22 played) record over Delpo (and those 2 wins were the weird loss in the Olympics and a DC retirement), I dont think he's quaking in his boots at playing him and needing of ways to win other than skill.

lydian wrote:Given Novak has a 7-2 (winning 17 sets out of 22 played) record over Delpo (and those 2 wins were the weird loss in the Olympics and a DC retirement), I dont think he's quaking in his boots at playing him and needing of ways to win other than skill.

Was that not the case for Fed against Djoko rather than stealing the chair and quaking Nole out Lyd

It Must Be Love wrote:LS, as I said earlier:
Nothing changes momentum like not telling the umpire that you had already lost the point after already losing the point in a game you were about to lose

Absolutely brilliant IMBL, yes you have summed up the Kafaesque theme of this weird cheating allegation against Novak. Novak as lydian pointed out doesn't need to "cheat" to beat a guy he has pretty much owned for the most part. Novak must from now reaffirm that he lost a point that he already lost or something is fishy indeed.

LuvSports! wrote:go to 31.15 in this vid
it shows the side on view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDw0z7S28iE&feature=plcp

IC you said it changed the momentum correct?

But novak had already broken back here but you said he was a break up in the second, this is simply not true.

LS it did break Del Po momentum, if you look at the link I posted for the complete video , DP was upset that nobody took notice of the double bounce, and Djoko remained quite to see Dp lose his focus, thats not gamesmanship.

socal1976 wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:LS, as I said earlier:
Nothing changes momentum like not telling the umpire that you had already lost the point after already losing the point in a game you were about to lose

Absolutely brilliant IMBL, yes you have summed up the Kafaesque theme of this weird cheating allegation against Novak. Novak as lydian pointed out doesn't need to "cheat" to beat a guy he has pretty much owned for the most part. Novak must from now reaffirm that he lost a point that he already lost or something is fishy indeed.

good sister acts.

even so, you still put it that he was a break up which would lead one to believe that the momentum had already swung the way of djoker

LuvSports! wrote:even so, you still put it that he was a break up which would lead one to believe that the momentum had already swung the way of djoker

Not only that, the whole premise that Djokovic won the point was mistaken...
And Del Potro went on to comfortably win the game too...

This really is getting embarrassing.

invisiblecoolers wrote: coz when your proven wrong you tend to mix match the issues and divert from the actual thing.

Yeah... I hate it when that happens.

invisiblecoolers wrote:
Anyways IMBL why did Rafa felt Berdych is very bad? coz he beat him on his own soil? so thats the crime Berdych committed? oh yes thats the new definition of sportsmanship

I never said what Nadal did was good/bad.
You said that Nadal swore and didn't shake Berdych's hand; and I have now posted links confirming that both those accusations are false (read my post @7:47 pm on page 1).
Berdych said 'shhh' to the crowd after he won, that's why Nadal got annoyed. I'm not saying Nadal is right/wrong, or his handshake was 'proper', the point is your allegations were simply proven to be untrue.

Good grief. I've not been on since before last nights match and there's a war going on between Novak and Roger fans! How did all this start?

Would Novak have known it bounced twice? Maybe. Would Roger have known he was say in the wrong seat? Probably. Are they the first two players to exhibit a bit of gamesmanship? Certainly not.

I don't know why people on here claim there own player is an angel and others are cheats/dishonest/unsporting. All top players play right at the limit and will do anything to win. Even gamesmanship.

These are two examples against Novak and Roger, and I bet it would be easy to find examples of Murray and Rafa doing similarly unsporting. They are all the same at the very top.

Danny, I'm not quite sure you understand.

As soon as Djokovic got the ball, Del Potro put it away for a winner.
Even in the case Djoko did know the ball bounced twice, why would he randomly tell the umpire, considering he had already lost the point anyway... it would just be weird.

That's not to say any of the Top 4 are perfect... it just happens to be the case here that Djokovic didn't even win the point; who knows, if he had won the point maybe he would have been naughty and not told the umpire anyway?

I see IMBL's point... if the outcome was decided either way then you just move on. If Del Potro was upset about it, even though he won that point... well then he put himself off. The umpire needed to call the double bounce, the player can;t always be sure... you certainly aren't gonna guess it was and then say "it bounced twice i think i'm not sure" thats the umpires call. It didnt matter anyway.

It Must Be Love wrote:coz when your proven wrong you tend to mix match the issues and divert from the actual thing.

Yeah... I hate it when that happens.[/quote]

Its unfortunate it happens always for you thou.

Oh I get it IMBL, and Djokovic does move to chase after Delpo's next shot but quickly realises he's not going to get there.

Not that I think it's that bad, but he didn't stop the point at the time of the double bounce. Had he been able to get to Delpo's next shot he would have carried on by the looks of it.

But again, I reiterate that I don't think Novak has done anything vastly different to a lot of players. Can anyone think of a double bounce that the umpire hasn't seen that the player has stopped the point for? I can't.

Most of them will do anything to win. All of them are guilty of a bit of gamesmanship. Anyone who says this is just a Novak thing is being a bit unfair.

invisiblecoolers wrote:
Its unfortunate it happens always for you thou.

Can you point out when this was the case.
We've had 3 areas of disagreement so far:

1/ Del Potro won the point, whereas you said Djokovic did in the article. Do you think you are right there?
2/ Nadal shakes Berdych's hand, but you said 'Nadal didn't shake Berdych's hand. I showed a link showing the handshake. Do you think you are right there?
3/ Nadal's comment to Berdych- you accused Nadal of swearing, I showed a link where it is clear that Nadal says 'you are a bad'; and showed you a link to Berdych's press interview where he confirms that this is the case. Do you think you are right there?

For the record I have never said the handshake was 'proper'; you changed the premise quickly though after seeing my link. I also never said Nadal's sportsmanship was good/bad vs Berdych... although personally I feel it would have been better for him to stay silent.
And I actually said in 2010 I though Ferrer deserved the SE award more than Nadal.

So, IC where was I proven wrong?

Falzy and Danny, agree with both your sentiments

i don't think you have proven him wrong in the two instances I have seen IC, no offence.

Danny just this year it happened between feds and berdych in madrid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ofNg0y8w60

Danny_1982 wrote:Good grief. I've not been on since before last nights match and there's a war going on between Novak and Roger fans! How did all this start?

Would Novak have known it bounced twice? Maybe. Would Roger have known he was say in the wrong seat? Probably. Are they the first two players to exhibit a bit of gamesmanship? Certainly not.

I don't know why people on here claim there own player is an angel and others are cheats/dishonest/unsporting. All top players play right at the limit and will do anything to win. Even gamesmanship.

These are two examples against Novak and Roger, and I bet it would be easy to find examples of Murray and Rafa doing similarly unsporting. They are all the same at the very top.

Danny, I am delighted atleast somebody here understands the game and what sportsmanship is about.

"They are all the same at the very top" , apt words.

It Must Be Love wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:
Its unfortunate it happens always for you thou.

Can you point out when this was the case.

So, IC where was I proven wrong?

You could rather ask anybody here when wasn't the case? coz I really have to do some analysis and search for it.

LuvSports! wrote:i don't think you have proven him wrong in the two instances I have seen IC, no offence.

Danny just this year it happened between feds and berdych in madrid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ofNg0y8w60

I have proven him wrong multiple times in the past and in this thread as well.

Go on then.. where?

I've already stated the 3 areas where we disagreed recently.. why the need for any search or analysis?
If I was wrong in my claims then the evidence is right in front of you.

LuvSports - a very similar incident. I think Berdy would have know too, but didn't point it out.

IC - I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic?

It Must Be Love wrote:Go on then.. where?

Oh you asking me when somebody hasn't proven you wrong here? oh kid I seriously need some time to find it, coz it might have happened in some strange thread

invisiblecoolers wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:Go on then.. where?

Oh you asking me when somebody hasn't proven you wrong here? oh kid I seriously need some time to find it, coz it might have happened in some strange thread

No...
I'm asking you to give me the example where you 'proved' me wrong.

Fortunately the outcome of that did not dictate who won the point. JMDP won it anyway so it was okay. Does not bode well for the worlds best player. That is probably why he has not won the Stefan Edberg sportsmanship award!

That sort of point if Federer had lost it would have put him off his game as he would argued with the umpire and lost his cool and the match!

Where JMDP is concerned he is not exactly the best to go on about sportsmanship. He has a bad habit of challenging long after he ought to. Happened at the USO 09 final which sent Federer off on a rant with the umpire and I believe he threw the set away. Happened again at Wimbledon recently. The set was called, the players sat down and then JMDP asked for a challenge which he won and the umpire restarted the match.

Danny_1982 wrote:LuvSports - a very similar incident. I think Berdy would have know too, but didn't point it out.

IC - I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic?

Danny chill Bud, I am not a guy who call all these players a saint and some a cheat, my point is everybody makes mistake, its just silly to point every single thing what a player does to defame him, so this thread is just an example thread to explain to some fans boy/girls what they posting.

I did seriously like you post and hence posted my appreciation.

FedsFan wrote:That is probably why he has not won the Stefan Edberg sportsmanship award!

I find that highly unlikely, considering the SE award had already been awarded by then!

FedsFan wrote:Fortunately the outcome of that did not dictate who won the point. JMDP won it anyway so it was okay. Does not bode well for the worlds best player. That is probably why he has not won the Stefan Edberg sportsmanship award!

That sort of point if Federer had lost it would have put him off his game as he would argued with the umpire and lost his cool and the match!

Where JMDP is concerned he is not exactly the best to go on about sportsmanship. He has a bad habit of challenging long after he ought to. Happened at the USO 09 final which sent Federer off on a rant with the umpire and I believe he threw the set away. Happened again at Wimbledon recently. The set was called, the players sat down and then JMDP asked for a challenge which he won and the umpire restarted the match.

Oh If Fed would have been on Nole's shoes, Socal and IMBL would have flooded articles on Fed's gamesmanship, we already saw some gr8 article from Nole fans questioning the sportsmanship and integrity of Fed for taking a chair.

invisiblecoolers wrote:
Oh If Fed would have been on Nole's shoes, Socal and IMBL would have flooded articles on Fed's gamesmanship, we already saw some gr8 article from Nole fans questioning the sportsmanship and integrity of Fed for taking a chair.

No I wouldn't have, definitely not.
Federer wouldn't have done anything wrong, as the point was lost anyway, so any intervention would have been pointless.

I have said the top 4 all generally behave really well, they are all great role-models in that way.
I just think Ferrer deserves more recognition
btw IC, still waiting for you to 'prove' me wrong.

It Must Be Love wrote:

FedsFan wrote:That is probably why he has not won the Stefan Edberg sportsmanship award!

I find that highly unlikely, considering the SE award had already been awarded by then!

This is just another simple example of how easy you are proven wrong, sportsmanship award is given to a player through a voting system in which fellow players cast their vote, unfortunately Djokovic hasn't won any so far, but might win some in the future when his gamesmanship improves.

It Must Be Love wrote:

FedsFan wrote:That is probably why he has not won the Stefan Edberg sportsmanship award!

I find that highly unlikely, considering the SE award had already been awarded by then!

I am not talking about the SE award this year, I am talking about previous years.

Does the fact that nadal and feds very very very rarely smash rackets have anything to do with it?
murray and novak do get through a few now and again.

It Must Be Love wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:
Oh If Fed would have been on Nole's shoes, Socal and IMBL would have flooded articles on Fed's gamesmanship, we already saw some gr8 article from Nole fans questioning the sportsmanship and integrity of Fed for taking a chair.

No I wouldn't have, definitely not.
Federer wouldn't have done anything wrong, as the point was lost anyway, so any intervention would have been pointless.

I have said the top 4 all generally behave really well, they are all great role-models in that way.
I just think Ferrer deserves more recognition
btw IC, still waiting for you to 'prove' me wrong.

IMBL what you rather do is encourage your friend's article and motivate him post gibberish all round the forum.

On the topic of proving wrong, I just quoted an example above, but stubborn characters like you anyways not gonna accept it, so why do you ask others opinion?

No way would Djoker have known it had bounced twice in my view. He has some faults but cheating to try and win a point is not one of them. I've played a match before when my partner was convinced he had got a very similar shot to that back. I was standing directly to the side and could see he scrapped it up precisely as Novak did here. It took some convincing for him to accept it had bounced twice.

The purpose of this article is clearly Holly Wilaboobie for tat with rather article criticising Fed anyway. Odd though that a point DP won, within a game he also won, could be seen as a game changer.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

FedsFan wrote:That is probably why he has not won the Stefan Edberg sportsmanship award!

I find that highly unlikely, considering the SE award had already been awarded by then!

This is just another simple example of how easy you are proven wrong, sportsmanship award is given to a player through a voting system in which fellow players cast their vote, unfortunately Djokovic hasn't won any so far, but might win some in the future when his gamesmanship improves.

What are you on about???

I'm fully aware that voting takes place, I was pointing out that by the time they played the final Federer been awarded the SE prize.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:LuvSports - a very similar incident. I think Berdy would have know too, but didn't point it out.

IC - I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic?

Danny chill Bud, I am not a guy who call all these players a saint and some a cheat, my point is everybody makes mistake, its just silly to point every single thing what a player does to defame him, so this thread is just an example thread to explain to some fans boy/girls what they posting.

I did seriously like you post and hence posted my appreciation.

I've never really understood why fans do this (claim an opponent is the devil in disguise and their fave is angelic). All players make mistakes and a vast majority will take advantage of most things to get the W next to their name.

I tell you what, I'll go as far as saying that I like that Roger sat in the wrong chair. I like that Rafa tried and succeeded to stop the FO final in conditions that suited Novak. I even like that Novak called an MTO against Murray in the final in New York, and I dont mind it when Murray turns the air blue on occasions...

If tennis players didn't do everything they could to win it wouldn't be the ultra competitive wonderful sport that it is. Long may it continue in my opinion. The day players aren't trying to get into their opponents head with a bit of gamesmanship is a day I dread.

Amusing bit of auto swear correct there

Born Slippy wrote:The purpose of this article is clearly Holly Wilaboobie for tat with rather article criticising Fed anyway. Odd though that a point DP won, within a game he also won, could be seen as a game changer.

Born Slippy, I opened a thread on a false act by Djoko in comparison to taking a chair, I can question the integrity of Djoko towards his opponent and the game, he clearly saw his opponent was agitated with umpire for not calling the double bounce, a good sportsman would have said words like "sorry lets move on" or a raise of hands acknowledge his opponents query, Djoko did nothing but enjoyed DP's lapse of concentration.

Holly wilaboobie.

Danny_1982 wrote:Holly wilaboobie.

http://newsthump.com/2012/11/13/abu-qatada-escapes-deportation-as-ryanair-flight-declared-infringement-of-human-rights/

Danny_1982 wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:LuvSports - a very similar incident. I think Berdy would have know too, but didn't point it out.

IC - I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic?

Danny chill Bud, I am not a guy who call all these players a saint and some a cheat, my point is everybody makes mistake, its just silly to point every single thing what a player does to defame him, so this thread is just an example thread to explain to some fans boy/girls what they posting.

I did seriously like you post and hence posted my appreciation.

I've never really understood why fans do this (claim an opponent is the devil in disguise and their fave is angelic). All players make mistakes and a vast majority will take advantage of most things to get the W next to their name.

I tell you what, I'll go as far as saying that I like that Roger sat in the wrong chair. I like that Rafa tried and succeeded to stop the FO final in conditions that suited Novak. I even like that Novak called an MTO against Murray in the final in New York, and I dont mind it when Murray turns the air blue on occasions...

If tennis players didn't do everything they could to win it wouldn't be the ultra competitive wonderful sport that it is. Long may it continue in my opinion. The day players aren't trying to get into their opponents head with a bit of gamesmanship is a day I dread.

Exactly and what matters is after all these moments how much respect they show to each other, Fed clearly do show a lot of respect to his fellow players and thats one of the reason he won the SE award 8 times, I am not saying Djoko don't respect but certainly not to the level of Fed atleast according to the fellow players.

Born Slippy wrote:
The purpose of this article is clearly Holly Wilaboobie for tat with rather article criticising Fed anyway. Odd though that a point DP won, within a game he also won, could be seen as a game changer.

If taking chair can make Djoko lose his focus even before the game started , yea this will look as a S____ response.

erm, so let's get this straight: Djokovic just fails to reach a Del Po dropshot but doesn't immediately call "not up", taps the ball over just after the second bounce, and Del Po easily dispatches it away for a winner. This all takes less than one second (between the second bounce and the end of the point), and because Djokovic doesn't aknowledge the double bounce (on a point he lost anyway) it's cheating??? and put Del Po off????? and had an influence on the result.

Daft article, yet another poor attempt by a Fed fanatic to take the gloss of Djokovic's excellent win last night...

MFC they are mad that I pointed out the same thing becker did that fed was playing mind games. As you said on the other thread, yeah it was gamesmanship but so what. Instead if you suggest that Roger isn't as pure as white snow in anyway they start going hysterical and hunting for nonexistant instances of Novak's cheating displaying poor sportsmanship. He is the only player ever that is seemingly immune to the most minor of criticisms.

socal1976 wrote:MFC they are mad that I pointed out the same thing becker did that fed was playing mind games. As you said on the other thread, yeah it was gamesmanship but so what. Instead if you suggest that Roger isn't as pure as white snow in anyway they start going hysterical and hunting for nonexistant instances of Novak's cheating displaying poor sportsmanship. He is the only player ever that is seemingly immune to the most minor of criticisms.

Unless you say something bad about Rafa to Wooffie

What does wooffie have to do with it, stop idolizing fed so much, this cult of personality surrounding the guy is bizarre and unhealthy. Not you in particular Julius, I am talking about fans in general. It is going to make it all the much harder to recover from Fed's eventual leaving of the game if we aren't a bit more grounded with how lionized this guy is. And by the way as a Djoko fan I just don't think much of his edberg awards I want a recount and the with Murray and Djoko as the only two voters. Fed is spectacular, but stop trying to sell us the idea that he is bigger than tennis and the greatest at eveything.

Well, that's one thing that shouldn't be forgotten... Forgetting chairs and double bounces, Novak topped off another tremendous year for him by beating his two main rivals in conditions many thought would favour Roger and Andy to take a fully deserved WTF victory.

I have no time for the claims of dishonesty or gamesmanship, for me it has always and will always be part of the game... But I do have time for the tennis both players exhibited. In particular the way Novak underlined he deserves to end the year with number 1 next to his name.

Hopefully at some point the discussion will move towards the fact that we've had 4 great players winning a slam each in a vintage year for men's tennis, rather than the bickering.

socal1976 wrote:What does wooffie have to do with it, stop idolizing fed so much, this cult of personality surrounding the guy is bizarre and unhealthy. Not you in particular Julius, I am talking about fans in general. It is going to make it all the much harder to recover from Fed's eventual leaving of the game if we aren't a bit more grounded with how lionized this guy is. And by the way as a Djoko fan I just don't think much of his edberg awards I want a recount and the with Murray and Djoko as the only two voters. Fed is spectacular, but stop trying to sell us the idea that he is bigger than tennis and the greatest at eveything.

But who is actually trying to sell us that? The media (not Becker presumably, or Wilander)? The ATP? Some fans? I think we can discount the fans as being particularly influential in selling us anything?
Are you sure you're not just attaching too much importance to a minority view? I'm sure the vast majority of people, even fed fans, have a fairly reasonable view of him.

socal1976 wrote:What does wooffie have to do with it, stop idolizing fed so much, this cult of personality surrounding the guy is bizarre and unhealthy. Not you in particular Julius, I am talking about fans in general. It is going to make it all the much harder to recover from Fed's eventual leaving of the game if we aren't a bit more grounded with how lionized this guy is. And by the way as a Djoko fan I just don't think much of his edberg awards I want a recount and the with Murray and Djoko as the only two voters. Fed is spectacular, but stop trying to sell us the idea that he is bigger than tennis and the greatest at eveything.

Rather than pointing fingers at others why not point it yourself and the forum would be a much nicer community.

@ MFC

If your consistent pls explain the same rule to some crazy Nole fans who plague the forums, it would be appreciated.