Mkaya Ntini front runner in "black selector" appointment

I found this article on Cricinfo

Cricket South Africa is planning to appoint a "black African selector", according to them it is to assist with transformation of cricket in South Africa. It is true that only a handful of black African players have played for South Africa over the past 20 years. But appointing a "black" selector isn't going to solve the problem.

It is the participation numbers that must increase, and that begins at school and local amateur club levels. This is where Government must come into the fold, they MUST provide facilities at schools, also the local municipalities must invest in their communities as far as facilities in townships go.

Once again this is an arse about face method of thinking.

The question is really very straight forward, once Ntini is appointed, who is he going to select. Traditionally the Black Africans don't play cricket, there isn't money in SA private sector to fund facilities, I just take the local cricket club here by us, the members have to fight to hold onto their grounds and clubs as money is really tight. To increase the potential participation has to increase first and foremost, even if it is put in place now, it will still take a number of years to find talent and develop it.

If I was Cricket SA, I would rather appoint Ntini in a development role, the acadamy he wanted to open failed becuase he couldn't find funding, why doesn't Government fund him?

Just makes no sense at all.

A black selector. isn't that a bit ironic?

It is, I would have thought that the current selectors will be focused on selections from any walk of life anyway.

Paul Collingwood is being appointed Englands ginger selector after the scandal of bairstow being left out for Patel and Bell.

hmmmm... makes sense.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Paul Collingwood is being appointed Englands ginger selector after the scandal of bairstow being left out for Patel and Bell.

That means we will have to bring in an Asian and short ar.se selector to level the playing field.

I think we get a very different view on this from foreign observers and South African observers (Biltong obviously excepted).

My view, and the general outsider view, is that any form of quotas/ transformation policies are flawed ways of thinking. The professional game's job should be to provide opportunities to the best players regardless of race, and the national team should consist of the best XI players regardless of race. The selection committee should thus consist of the best peoplw regardless of race too.

Of course, as in every other country, every possible attempt should be made to get the game of cricket out to all communities, and part of that should be a result of CSA funding. I don't get the role model idea - I don't see how a black person should need to see black people in the national team to want to play the sport. Race shouldn't come into things and so you'd hope that SA's excellent national team would inspire black Africans as much as it does everyone else. Of course, you must accept that different social groups will often be attracted to different sports: there is a strong tradition of football in black communities both in SA and in England, and a lack of black people in cricket is an issue here too.

However, I get the impression that quite a lot of South Africans see things differently. There seems to be a paranoia of any inequality at all in the post-Apartheid era. Whilst that might seem natural, it creates its own sets of problems in encouraging political interference.

On a separate note Ntini has never struck me as the selector type. He's not a particularly good speaker, and the idea he's quoted as having espoused in the article: "reserve wicketkeeper Thami Tsolekile would have played for the national team if he was white" is frankly ridiculous. In fact I'd argue he almost certainly wouldn't be in the squad if he was white.

Shelsey it is true that South Africans seem to have different views on transformation of any sort.

But from experience I can tell you that is mostly from a communications point of view. Most South Africans (and I am talking about all walks of life) just want the best team to represent us.

Regardless our culture, we love sport, and we love to win, there is a lot said and done by organisations or public officials in South Africa that "seems the way things should be done", but the man in the street just wants everything to be done fairly and on merit.

Unfortunately there are always those that say the wrong things and it always boils down to the past.

The quota system again?

While the idea of a black selector may not be the most appealing thing that CSA has come up with, I think Ntini's appointment may not be all that bad. But as biltong says, more work need to be done at the foundational level so that there would be a flow of players from the disadvantaged sections of society.
Then again, our idea of merit can be problematic, tallent is not all natural, its also about being nurtured, and that could also be influenced by social factors.

Stella wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Paul Collingwood is being appointed Englands ginger selector after the scandal of bairstow being left out for Patel and Bell.

That means we will have to bring in an Asian and short ar.se selector to level the playing field.

wouldnt mushtaq ahmed fill both of those?

Pakistan should appoint a NON-MOSLEM selector. I can't dare say more.

India must appoint a MANGOLIAN selector so that players in those India-China border states get fair representation.

Sri Lanka must have a TAMIL selector (Hey Murali baby!).

Australia must appoint somebody who is not a White Strine.

New Zealand must appoint Ross Taylor so that their best player will always get selected, i.e., himself.

England must appoint a South African selector so that only the cream of Saffer talent can get in the England side, and not every bedwetter.

ShankyCricket wrote:The quota system again?

The much-maligned quota system is not all bad....

When Amla and Ntini were first picked, there were stories in the media about how they were quota picks, and they ended up serving their country pretty well. We have to remember that South Africa was just coming out of apartheid, and that cricket selectors who had practised racially-motivated policies up to the 1990s might not necessarily be the right people to trust with the transformation of South African cricket.

The Saffer Test team is number one in the world now, and it includes the likes of Amla and Philander, who are outstanding players, while opening batsman Alviro Petersen is not bad at all, and JP Duminy is competing for the place that another non-white player who served his country well, Ashwell Prince, left open with his retirement. Would these players have got into the side if there was no quota system?

As for comparing the appointment of a black selector with a non-Muslim one in Pakistan, there's one factor that's being completely overlooked. Pakistan is a majority Muslim country, while South Africa is 80% black. I feel the appointment of Ntini might be a good one....

shivfan wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:The quota system again?

The much-maligned quota system is not all bad....

When Amla and Ntini were first picked, there were stories in the media about how they were quota picks, and they ended up serving their country pretty well. We have to remember that South Africa was just coming out of apartheid, and that cricket selectors who had practised racially-motivated policies up to the 1990s might not necessarily be the right people to trust with the transformation of South African cricket.

The Saffer Test team is number one in the world now, and it includes the likes of Amla and Philander, who are outstanding players, while opening batsman Alviro Petersen is not bad at all, and JP Duminy is competing for the place that another non-white player who served his country well, Ashwell Prince, left open with his retirement. Would these players have got into the side if there was no quota system?

As for comparing the appointment of a black selector with a non-Muslim one in Pakistan, there's one factor that's being completely overlooked. Pakistan is a majority Muslim country, while South Africa is 80% black. I feel the appointment of Ntini might be a good one....

South Africa doesn't need a black selector, the proof is already there that selections aren't made based on racial bias.

What they need is for Ntini to be afforded the financial investment to develop more black players. He is an inspiration to kids all over south africa, where will he be most beneficial?

As has been said it's a pretty ironic thought process in many ways but the strange thing to me is that any south africans I know (most from completely different walks of life) disagree with any sort of quota system in sport. They're a very competitive sporting nation who love to win and want the best team for it.

The sad thing in this for me is that I often felt Ntini could do a very good job in coaching or the like. Stating his appointment as that of a 'black selector' suggests he wouldn't have been appointed on his merits in the position, which I think he could do very well in.

king_carlos wrote:As has been said it's a pretty ironic thought process in many ways but the strange thing to me is that any south africans I know (most from completely different walks of life) disagree with any sort of quota system in sport. They're a very competitive sporting nation who love to win and want the best team for it.

The sad thing in this for me is that I often felt Ntini could do a very good job in coaching or the like. Stating his appointment as that of a 'black selector' suggests he wouldn't have been appointed on his merits in the position, which I think he could do very well in.

I am pretty sure Ntini would make a good selector, he has all the credentials.

But the people higher up are just pushing for something our country just can not deliver.

If you look at our current team and the one fielded in the T20s on boxing day you will see that the teams is basically split between the two races that plays the game the most. The same to a lesser degree with the Springboks. There will be no notable black participation in the national squad until there is a large enough black participation in school cricket. Trust me if a black kid stands out enough in bakers mini cricket (Is that the primary school tournament still?), good schools will give full scholarships (schooling and hostel) plus pocket money to have them representing the school.

The only problem is that 'black schools' don't play cricket at all. I don't even think they play soccer or at least not the schools I help out with. The minister of sport and CSA have to go look there to correct this situation.

I know Ntini was convicted and then exonerated for r*** in the criminal courts. Is it true that after this he was found guilty of the offence in a civil hearing and Cricket SA footed the bill?

To be honest I can't remember.

Such a load of garbage this is. Selecting people based on colour will never see an end to South Africa's past problems. Genghis Khan proved many years ago that meritocracy is the most successful means of leadership - why these do gooders need to try anything else is beyond me.

Ntini does seem to have friends in the right places.

Played with a lot of Saffas over the years. One in particular had gone through the system only to be shunned when quotas came in. He was the best spinner in Natal but couldn't even make the back up squad. Not sure the Cricket SA plan has worked given that since it was introduced you only have 4 players of any note come into the side who are of 'colour' - Gibbs, Ntini, Amla and Philander. Mfuneko Ngam was a decent prospect but his body couldn't hold out.

Sean, it depends what criteria you use.

I personally feel that they've done well so far (and not particularly as a result of quotas) - Gibbs, Amla, Ntini, Philander, Duminy, Tsotsobe, Tahir, Peterson, Petersen and many others probably wouldn't have played for SA during Apartheid. However, I guess they would argue that the area they are let down in is in black Africans, with only Ntini having prolonged success from that group. Given that that demographic makes up quite a big portion of the population their worry is understandable.

But as I outlined above I don't think quotas are the way forward. Meritocracy is the way forward and, with no evidence at all (to my knowledge) of black Africans being actively prejudiced against, it seems bizarre to now feel you need to favour them. You could argue that the Black African population need role-models. But somebody parachuted into the team without having earned the place is unlikely to be a role-model. Anybody of Ntini's stature would work their way into the team on merit.

Tahir certainly wouldn't have. He's from Pakistan.

Looks like Victor Mpitsang is going to get the job.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Mpitsang-set-for-selector-role-20130102

Ntini's rant about Thami is probably what cost him