Edinburgh vs Racing Metro Heineken Cup return fixture.

Edinburgh Team:

15. Greig Tonks
14. Lee Jones
13. Ben Cairns!
12. Ben Atiga
11. Dougie Fife

10. Piers Francis
9. Chris Leck

1. John Yapp
2. Ross Ford
3. Geoff Cross
4. Robert McAlpine
5. Grant Gilchrist
6. Stuart McInally
7. Roddy Grant
8. Netani Talei

Substitutes
16 Andy Titterrell
17 Allan Jacobsen
18 Willem Nel
19 Perry Parker
20 Dimitri Basilaia
21 Richie Rees
22 Gregor Hunter
23 Sep Visser

Racing Metro:

(1-8) Ben Arous, Szarzewski, Ducalcon, Ghezal, van der Merwe, Battut, Le Roux, Cronjé
(9-15) Descons, Barkley, Imhoff, Dumoulin, Bousses, Bobo, Germain
Subs: Bianchin, Brugnaut, Orlandi, Qovu, Galindo, Belie, Martín Hernández, Estebanez

Nice to see Cairns back but otherwise this team isn't here to win, its an experimental team which confuses me all the more because Bradley really really needs this team to start winning!

Will be good to see how the young lock pairing gets on - those two could be around for many years to come

I admittedly haven't seen much of McApline, however I'm a bit gutted perry parker hasn't had more game time as he had a bit of a blast against the ospreys I thought, was all over the park!

anyone thinking of actually going to the game?

This is a complete joke! I'm sorry, but what on earth is Bradley thinking putting out a reserve outfit in a home HC game. Resting players so we can breath life into our tragic league campaign?? I don't care if there's nothing to play for, if he's given up then the fans should to.

Is there a single Edinburgh player who has played more than two consecutive games this season?? Players like Parker and Hunter, half decent in their last outings, haven't had a sniff since. Yet McAlpine and Francis have somehow stepped ahead in the pecking order. Does Ben Cairns really deserve to start at 13 ahead of Fife, who played well at 13 in his last outing, and is this really the time to start Cairns? Why not the bench, and bring him through gradually?

I was planning to go. Not sure I'll bother now. It's work Christmas drinks plus it's freezing outside. The Edinburgh rugby outfit is not matching the commitment of its fans, which is the least we can expect.

Sorry, but this selection is horrific. Yet more stupid and pointless rotation.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

I was planning to go. Not sure I'll bother now.

Dont worry about it, you wont be missed !

Strange to rest so many players but perhaps unsurprisingly he's seeing the 1872 as his only hope of salvation.

Great to see cairnsy back and this is surely last chance saloon for Atiga.

Also great to have talei back - having been a top player in all of Europe last year he's barely featured this year

Actually don't think this is a bad team despite some of the nonsense being spouted on the Edinburgh fans site. Worry is Atiga, Cairns won't be up to pace and if one has to go off the cover is Fife to centre Viss to wing.

Again its Bradley not letting combinations form in the backline. Not good coaching imho.

What's the Edinburgh fans site saying like?

I don't go on there - does my nut in.

Aach its basically the old field our strongest team in every game v play the youngsters arguement.

Imo its a balance; create a settled team with players who know the gamplan and can execute then introduce the young guys. Evolution not revolution. Something Bradley doesn't seem to grasp.

Don't change the whole team every game.

I'll be there tomorrow and strangely looking forward to it.

In a strange logic kind of way the greater strength in depth this years is a bad thing - last year we only had a good first team so they had to play a lot and ended up gelling as s team.

Now he's got too many players to pick from, especially the front 5 (who'd have guessed it!!) And he's gone to the other extreme and rotated players week in week out - which has clearly backfired.

As has been said, Ive no problem with a bit of change seeing as the so called first choicers havent been delivering, but the constant chopping and changing of the side for the past season and a half stinks of a coach whos run out of ideas. It does nothing for the team, the players or even the supporters.

That being said, ill still be there tommorow supporting the guys on the pitch, just not the guys up in the west stand.

As for the edinburgh forum, if you thought it was bad before, its just gone to pot now. The whole place divided in one big argument about a month ago over the issue of Leonards development, with some posters who i wouldve considered knowledgeable and reasoned advocating getting rid of leonard because hes never shown any potential (what?), writing slagging off articles about Mike Blair and just baiting anyone stupid enough to call them out on the stuff they were saying (myself included). It boiled over, but now the forums split into wee cliches, and now its hard to discuss anything without sarcy remarks getting thrown about everywhere.

Doesn't surprise me. Some of the comments on the facebook page do my nut in. There's usually 2 camps - we're all doomed and 'how dare you say anything bad about our players - they're all amazing and can't do anything wrong'

RDW_Scotland wrote:In a strange logic kind of way the greater strength in depth this years is a bad thing - last year we only had a good first team so they had to play a lot and ended up gelling as s team.

Now he's got too many players to pick from, especially the front 5 (who'd have guessed it!!) And he's gone to the other extreme and rotated players week in week out - which has clearly backfired.

I agree with this. Bradley seems a half decent coach but I don't think he knows how to build a team, and the extent to the chopping and changing this season has made it impossible for any sort of combination to form.

Hopefully we'd reap the dividends towards the end of the season as other sides run out of steam, but I'm not convinced.

Still, great to see Ben Cairns back generally.

Looking at the subs it would appear we are relying on Atiga to last the full 80 - bit of a risk there!!

Piers is maybe covering 12, as he was announced as a 10/12 when he signed, but he looks pretty small to be a 12.

Think Positive. Think Giteau.

Halftime Edinburgh are 6-3 down.
Missed 3 kicks at goal, could come back to bite us.
Also weird to think that 280 minutes of HC action and yet to score a try

Despite being a season ticket holder I judged to watch this one in the pub. We look like the better team, but need to get points on the board.

Piers Francis has missed 5 kicks at goal tonight apparently

I feel I should say something but I really don't know what to say... Edinburgh = Several individual talents with no team play. Something has to change.

This game was very boring to watch, even more so than the Connacht game...

Francis is a real worry too, very weak foot, awkward style off the tea and out of hand, doesn't look comfortable at all, isn't offering much ball in hand either.
But thats the first time Ive seen him!!

80th minute and Embra decide to have a crack, well I see Embra Rees rushes out of the line, nicks the ball, beats one and offloads... more than Phillips has done this season!!

Final score 15-3 to Racing

It's unreal that Edinburgh have gone 4 rounds of HCup without scoring a try.

Any positives?

I think Talei carried very well as did Ford, MacInally...

Tonks played well mostly

Francis looked okay but obviously his penalties were atrocious.

Twitter made it sound like it was a good performance from him and his kicks were far out!

Didn't get to watch it - how did everyone play? Cairnsy do ok?

Cairns very good defensively, but little else shown.

Francis was ok, missed 5 from the tee, a few pens didn't go dead, and a few out of hand very poor.

Well cairnsy has been out for 15 months so wasn't expecting much!

Not really his fault mind, just never saw the ball in a decent position.

I find Embra quite strange, plenty of good individuals, a lot of what each player does is good, it just tends to be under pressure constantly and they never seem to get a platform to attack.

Back 3 were good today, but defensively, under pressure and they were having to get themselves out of trouble they didn't create!!!

Talei is a perfect example, he'll make hard ground over and over, then a good carry, followed by a late hit and a yellow!

Ross Fords lineout was ropy, but he carried and defended very well.

I feel a bit for Francis, but he does not look like a natural kicker, and he didnt take kicks for waikato. Dont do what Lineen did with Jackson and repeatedly try and make him a placekicker. I still want to see him on a dry night with Laidlaw taking the kicks, as I think he could offer something in loose play. I watched a few waikato games, hes pretty decent in better conditions. Unfortunately he'll now be forever ridiculed by supporters.

Were the kicks kickable though? As I said the Twitter feed suggested all of them were pretty difficult apart from one

Also - did Atiga last the full 80??

RDW_Scotland wrote:Were the kicks kickable though? As I said the Twitter feed suggested all of them were pretty difficult apart from one

Also - did Atiga last the full 80??

I would say all apart from 1 Hunter or Laidlaw would have got

Nope and Cairns looks fitter than Atiga even tho he's just come back from a major injury

RDW_Scotland wrote:Were the kicks kickable though? As I said the Twitter feed suggested all of them were pretty difficult apart from one

Also - did Atiga last the full 80??

They were not gimmies, but at HC level you are looking for your kicker to slot at the very least 3 of them.

I don't think this season could end any quicker for Edinburgh. Nothing to play for, terrible performances, New records broken for poor results - it is so depressing. I'm assuming the pretty decent crowd of 4.5k last night was down to kids going free for every adult ticket? Can't see many newcomerd coming back.

Glasgow promised so much on the league buy they have had a terrible month or so too and can't see them winning today - let's hope all their momentum is not lost.

I reckon we're going to see two horrific 1872 games.

Yes RD its not shaping up well for a free-flowing try fest next week and in a fortnight. Two teams with some good players but very poor coaches. Pro rugby is in a mess in this country.

Is Leonard injured?

Why doesn't Bradley give him a decent chance, did well last season in the Heineken and had a good U20s RWC. He looks like he could have the complete package; attacks the line well, good distribution, creative, decent boot on him and a reliable goal kicker but he needs experience to develop his game management.

And Hunter looks like a good prospect as well, why oh why are we signing non qualified players that aren't any more established than our own youngsters.

He's on the bench for Melrose.

I agree - I think he looks a good prospect and has done well whenever he has played. Problem is he is immediately dropped!!

It is absolutely criminal they signed this Francis guy - yes it is early days but sounds like he didn't cover himself in glory last night.

Ridiculous that he will be playing over Leonard or Hunter, considering he doesn't seem to be any better than them!

It's still early days for Francis, but so far not impressed. I cannot fathom why Hunter hasn't been given more of a chance, given his pretty tidy and efficient performances this season (and pre-season).

Bradley is not rewarding form, and I think that will ultimately do for him. He spoke before the RM game about players "straining and the leash", and there being competition for places. All very well, but you have to reward those players who actually play well and win the competition for places, rather than arrive at selection with your mind made up.

For me these 1872 games are Bradley's last chance. If Edinburgh don't win both, he should go. We seem to have been saving ourselves for something so far this season, and if it isn't the league or the HC, it better be this!

Got my tickets lined-up for the 29th and hugely looking forward it!

If he doesnt win the 1872, theres nothing left this season to win, in which case whats the point in keeping him? Bring someone new in to get to grips with the players before the end of the season, so that they can start the next season with a bit of foundation built.

Obviously the cost of tearing up Bradleys contract is going to factor in to the equation though.

Agreed - sack him after we lose the 1872 then find a replacement during the 6N with a view to starting after the 6N if they are available, to give him time with the team, or just keep temporary coaches for the rest of the season until the new guy becomes available.

He can take Billy Mcginty or whatever his name is with him too - Neil Back can stay for now...

Just to add - like for Scotland I don't want us to jump on the first person that comes available.

If they sack Bradley and have to wait 'til summer to get their man then so be it.

I have to laugh at everyone who immediately shouts "sack the coach" when a team plays badly. Firstly, you should only sack someone if there is someone better lined up to take their place - they may be rubbish but they may be the best rubbish available.
Secondly, why blame Bradley? I am sure his pre-match talk didn't revolve round Talei being a tool and hitting someone late and off the ball and I would also like to think that he didn't instruct Ross Ford to miss his jumper by miles every time we got in the opposition 22.
Jumping on the coach's back is all too easy - the players need to take a very hard look at themselves too

Injured - it's not as if this is only a new thing, we were awful in the league last year and have been awful in the league and HK this year. He's been given a bigger budget and the team isn't delivering. yes you can't blame him for individual mistakes but there's a lot more to blame him for.

For example - can you tell me what Edinburgh's game plan is this year??

The team has no shape and coherent plan at all. You get individuals running into contact on their own to try and make some yard then it seems to just become 'get it to Visser'.

Bradley has been let down by his players but the lack of decent game plan and tactics is very much his fault.

Plus is player rotation, especially after the first few games where Rennie, Cross, Leonard, Hunter etc were one week on, one week off and they couldn't build any momentum and we lost all those early games. That is definitely his fault.

It would be interesting to know who scouted/decided on signing the likes of Atiga, Nel etc. Was it Bradley in which case he should be accountable or was it Lineen in his new role in which case are we trying to fit a (very) round peg like Atiga into a square hole?
The game plan that worked well in the HC with quick off-loading and shifting the point of attach just isn't working - perhaps we need to have a Plan B ready but surely the players can react to things when they are on the pitch. Everyone needs to take more responsibilkity for the collective actions.
Lastly, I think we got off to a bad start with too short a pre-eason (again). The players didn't seem fit and, as you say RDW, a rotation policy breaks any momentum built but it also potentially scunners Bradleys game plans as he may have to go for a more attritional game depending on who he (is told to?) pick.

I think Nel has come good finally - he's been much better than Cross the past few games. I think it took him a while to get match fit at the start of the season but now he looks good.

Agreed though - someone has to take account for Atiga, Mike Penn (who???) and Piers Francis.

Had a big rant with my brother and dad about Francis over the weekend. I'm assuming this is a Lineen call since he was playing in NZ, but it is an awful one. It beggars belief why they've brought in a NSQ young standoff when we have 2 promising SQ young stand offs now not getting game time.

Agreed on pre-season injured - the players just didn't look match fit. Again that has to come down to the head coach IMO.

It depresses me that Lineen got us Atiga and Francis and he gave Glasgow Strauss and Maitland.

RDW - we have spoken about Nel before. He has two extremes of either totally dominating his oppo or, like when Adam Jones came on the other week there, he engaged reverse gear in the next few scrums and had to have his backside handed back to him by AJ at the end of the game.
Slightly off-topic, I read an article about Strauss who said that he thought he was fit when he came here but because of the the heavier grounds, he found he was working totally different leg muscles and he was suffering in his early games as his calves weren't up to it. Maybe that is what happened to WP too but he is now getting up to speed?

Atiga was on the cards long before Lineen took his new role. It seems these days that every single signing is getting attributed to him. When theyre good its "Lineens a saint, with an eye for talent" and when theyre bad its the opposite, but we have no proof either way that Lineen had a hand in half these signings.

Good point Ibg, although with Francis being quite recent and playing in NZ I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to think that Lineen recommended him after his recent trip there. I'm blaming him for that one anyway!

His job is identifying oversees talent so I suspect that most of the latter signings involved him.

Injured - agreed that Nel seems to either do well or get dominated, but Cross has been even more inconsistent. I'm worried what will happen against the Glasgow front row.

The good thing going for Nel is that he is only 26 - teenage years for a prop. If he's pretty decent at that age then hopefully he'll develop into an international tighthead in a few years.

I'm with RDW. I think he is responsible for sanctioning those signings that occurred after he took that new role. If not, then who is!?

It wouldn't be wholly unusual for the SRU to tell us that no-one is responsible for the bad signings, but every good signing is a ringing endorsement of the structures they put in place.

I'll be honest, I was pretty excited about Atiga coming and did not criticise that particular signing at the time. Similarly Nel. The signings that really puzzle me are Penn and Francis. At the time they seemed daft, and still do. I'd far rather we stuck with Laidlaw, Hunter, Leonard and maybe Alex Blair at 10, and used Fife and Farndale more on the wing.

The signing priority next season for Edinburgh must be a new loosehead. Rather than sign 8 hit or miss players, I'd rather they just stretched the budget to one really good player, and promote some of the younger players forward to fill the other positions (assuming one or two players leave).

Will there be any budget left though? The only player I can see leaving is Talei and the only players on 1 year deals are Penn and Atiga....not exactly loads of money to flash about!