Blues v Munster

First topic message reminder :

Munster: F Jones; D Howlett (capt), K Earls, J Downey, DHurley; R O'Gara, C Murray; D Kilcoyne, M Sherry, S Archer; D Foley, D Ryan; T O'Donnell, S Dougall, J Coughlan.

Replacements: S Henry, W du Preez, BJ Botha, B Holland, CJ Stander, D Williams, I Keatley, C Laulala.

Blues: Jason Tovey; Owen Williams, Richard Smith, Jamie Roberts, Harry Robinson; Rhys Patchell, Lewis Jones; Sam Hobbs, Rhys Williams, Benoit Bourrust, Bradley Davies, Lou Reed, Josh Navidi (capt), Sam Warburton, Robin Copeland.

Replacements: Kritian Dacey, Paetru Tamba, Scott Andrews, James Down, Luke Hamilton, Alex Walker, Ceri Sweeney, Leigh Halfpenny.

Live on S4C and RTE.

Roberts back for the Blues, be nice to see him play well for the us as he is normally lacklustre. Would be interesting to see the Romanian prop Tamba off the bench, a lot of Blues fans have been asking for a gnarly Eastern European Tighthead (I think hes a Tighthead).

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:First game Halfpenny has been on the winning side in fifteen games apparently.

Yep, since he beat France to win the GrandSlam

Got to say that I'm pretty damn happy he got that hoodoo off his back

Credit to Cardiff - Patchell is an exceptional prospect, looks like he has it all. Navidi and Copeland were great too and far more conspicuous than Warburton.

The Ralph Keyes comment about getting back to traditional values sums up Miunster's problems. The problem is changing the Munster mindset (caricatured by the pundits) that 10 man rugby is still a valid option. Munster were dominant in the scrum and still lost the game. They won plenty of turnover from the lineout but couldn't use it. Williams was poor but Murray wouldn't have changed the game. The mindset needs to change for Munster to change. It's obvious to most observers that ROG is not only long past his best, but even his best wouldn't work under the new law interpretations. Until Munster start selecting players with pace and passing skills they can't hope to play with er... pace and distribution!

The Great Aukster wrote:Credit to Cardiff - Patchell is an exceptional prospect, looks like he has it all. Navidi and Copeland were great too and far more conspicuous than Warburton.

The Ralph Keyes comment about getting back to traditional values sums up Miunster's problems. The problem is changing the Munster mindset (caricatured by the pundits) that 10 man rugby is still a valid option. Munster were dominant in the scrum and still lost the game. They won plenty of turnover from the lineout but couldn't use it. Williams was poor but Murray wouldn't have changed the game. The mindset needs to change for Munster to change. It's obvious to most observers that ROG is not only long past his best, but even his best wouldn't work under the new law interpretations. Until Munster start selecting players with pace and passing skills they can't hope to play with er... pace and distribution!

100% agree on all of that. I'd add attacking vision and ability to make decisions

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Credit to Cardiff - Patchell is an exceptional prospect, looks like he has it all. Navidi and Copeland were great too and far more conspicuous than Warburton.

The Ralph Keyes comment about getting back to traditional values sums up Miunster's problems. The problem is changing the Munster mindset (caricatured by the pundits) that 10 man rugby is still a valid option. Munster were dominant in the scrum and still lost the game. They won plenty of turnover from the lineout but couldn't use it. Williams was poor but Murray wouldn't have changed the game. The mindset needs to change for Munster to change. It's obvious to most observers that ROG is not only long past his best, but even his best wouldn't work under the new law interpretations. Until Munster start selecting players with pace and passing skills they can't hope to play with er... pace and distribution!

100% agree on all of that. I'd add attacking vision and ability to make decisions

Disagree with the bolded, the two tries wouldn't have been scored if Murray was playing. Also Munster didn't take any advantage of their dominance in the scrum, their control at the base was poor and not to mention Rog kicking as much as he could.

Most on here know that i am and always have been a massive fan of ROG but the time has come. He has been an amazing for Munster and Ireland over the years but it is time to move on over and let the younger players take the helm.

I do think that he will make a hell of a good coach though, should he go down that road.

Eirebilly I too have been a long time supporter of ROG but the game is up. He looked so out of place last night it was scary.

The east to west west to east rugby that was played last night was just sad to watch. Yes we need to become more expansive but not to be so blinkered thay its out only game.

We need to come back and attack on the inside shoulder to at least keep drift defenses honest. It was so one dimensional that it became embarrassing. Sure we may as well as not have Downey in the team if thats the way we are going to play.

We are rebuidling and patience is required but Im starting to doubt this new brand of Penneyball...

Not taking anything away from the Blues because they deserved to win but Munster just looked like they had no imagination. This is not all ROG's fault but he is really not an inspiration anymore. A fit Keatley is a much better option right now or even JJ.

I hope ROG does bow out gracefully and quit whilst he's ahead. Nothing more sad than seeing a really good lengthy sports career drag on and end badly.

Sadly Cari, he is going to hang in there i feel.

Still think that he will make a hell of a coach.

I have never been a fan of ROG but I thought he had a good game, it was not his fault half the Munster team can't pass or catch. Both line outs were poor as were the scrum halves. ROG has never tackled or made breaks but his kicking and passing was top notch, it was the rest of the team were poor.

Thanks very much, Welsh lads.

Glasgow second in the league table in their own right now.

And that's having set fire to 2 bonus points in consecutive weeks against the diddies of Edinburgh.

glamorganalun wrote:I have never been a fan of ROG but I thought he had a good game, it was not his fault half the Munster team can't pass or catch. Both line outs were poor as were the scrum halves. ROG has never tackled or made breaks but his kicking and passing was top notch, it was the rest of the team were poor.

I agree.

I've lost patience now with this typewriter rugby Munster play. Utterly predictable, goes nowhere except when players get pushed off the sideline.

Even the error count hasn't left me hopeful. If more of the players had hung onto the ball then even more of them would have ended up being shoved over the sidelines.

This match has left me depressed.

i thought the blues would be well beaten. we put out a pretty good team. there were good performances from the more established players and from the new comers.

that win could be the turning point for the blues. it look like we have the makings of a competative team.

dogtooth wrote:i thought the blues would be well beaten. we put out a pretty good team. there were good performances from the more established players and from the new comers.

that win could be the turning point for the blues. it look like we have the makings of a competative team.

I think we were helped that it was probably the strongest forward pack we have put out this season, almost full strength with only Paterson, filise and breeze unavailable (and pretorious would probably have made the 22)

I disagree, that was clearly a game where the weakness of the opposition tight 5 highlighted our own weakness's, that was single handedly the worst munster pack performance I have ever seen, and it meant our weakness's were masked.

One thing I can say for sure, the Romanian prop was a joke, and I know 14 yr old kids with a better scrummaging technique!!!

The big positive I will take from that game was twofold...

The defence was as good and as aggressive Ive seen from the Blues for over a year, and the Navidi, Warbs Copeland combo looked in equal measure dogged and classy, they caused problems all night.

Fantastic result for the Blues, lets hope they can kick on from theis

thebluesmancometh wrote:
One thing I can say for sure, the Romanian prop was a joke, and I know 14 yr old kids with a better scrummaging technique!!!

He was better then Hobbs who is out and out the worst player on the roster. Yes, worst then our scrum halfs.

Hobbs is poor quality don't get me wrong, but he is local, and he won't allocate a NWQ spot! He's only 23 or so isn't he?! He's no Trevett!!!

Tamba is a poor quality desperation signing, and did you see him flayling around in the scrums? At one point he bound on the flanker 8 and lock in the same scrum while being turned in and put into Shery's? pocket!!

I've only seen him scrummage twice/three times. Whereas I’ve had a few seasons of Hobbs being ruined by all comers. I did see him binding on the back row and I thought what you are doing?! But strangely, I still think he did a better job in the scrums he was in then Hobbs did. I would rather we were signing good Welsh players, but they're expensive and they disappear for 2/3 of the season.

I'll agree with you that Trevett is worse than Hobbs, and I’ll retract my statement of Hobbs being the worst player on the roster. But the reason we're making desperation signings is because the local talent that we have access to isn’t up to scratch.

Can't argue there...

the last 2 seasons have really made me miss Dai Young, especially after watching the transformation hes overseeing at wasps.

Aren't the Blues supposed to be looking at some very hefty good quality Welsh forwards for next year ? I am sure I read in the Western Mail, and the Daily Mail that the pie man was admitting that he needed to invest in quality to get the team going forwards again, the names I heard bandied about were Matthew Rees, Rhys Gill, Gethin Jenkings and Craig Mitchell. With these type's of players they could lift the Blues to the next level.

Did everyone see this?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ogara-stakes-lions-claim-with-classy-display-3343851.html

LD, I've heard that the Gethin deal was attempted but fell through so it doesnt look like he's coming back.

Dont see Mitchell leaving Exeter if I'm being honest.

I'd fall to bits if the blues can bring in Rhys Gill and Matthew Rees next year. They're the exactly the type of players the blues need, quality front rowers with a bit of bite who do the dirty work well and are strong in the set piece.

Personally, I'd love to see Richie Rees back at scrumhalf for the blues too....

But agreed, its up front the blues are suffering, Andrews is worth being peservered with at TH, hes been very inconsistent but shown he can cut it at the top when he fancies it.

Comfort, these are the names being talked about down at the Blues, well thats what my old man is telling me anyway, actually the Craig Mitchell rumours seem to be the loudesd as he is only on a meagre wage at Exeter and the Blues could easily double his wages without breaking the bank, even more so now that Jamie Roberts is leaving at the end of the year.

Notch wrote:Did everyone see this?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ogara-stakes-lions-claim-with-classy-display-3343851.html

I think ROG is still stuck in the Munster way where as Penney's Munster are not.

LD, I live in hope your old man is correct, I'd love to see Mitchell at the blues, I was disgusted we didnt go for him before he left for Exeter.

Gill and Mitchell would be unbeleivable as signings for next season.

From what Ive heard though the Geth deal has fallen through, Thomas tried to sign him on a very reduced rate and Geth wasn't willing to drop so low.

Also the Rees signing looks nailed on (from what Ive heard) but I hope that falls through!!

I'd be very happy with front row options of...

Mitchell/Andrews
Breeze/Dacey/Williams
Hobbs/Gill

We'd then be a lock, 9 and centre from a very very strong team!!

Morgannwg wrote:

Notch wrote:Did everyone see this?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ogara-stakes-lions-claim-with-classy-display-3343851.html

I think ROG is still stuck in the Munster way where as Penney's Munster are not.

Conor George is to Munster what Gerry Thornley is to Ireland.

The lad is a dope

Notch wrote:Did everyone see this?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ogara-stakes-lions-claim-with-classy-display-3343851.html

I did enjoy that alright.

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/a-twitter-lesson-for-aspiring-sports-journalists/#sthash.Q528lndG.6rIKs8GF.dpbs

I reckon he's just redressing the perceived imbalance.

Conor George is a legend, used to love reading his columns!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Gill and Mitchell would be unbeleivable as signings for next season.

From what Ive heard though the Geth deal has fallen through, Thomas tried to sign him on a very reduced rate and Geth wasn't willing to drop so low.

Also the Rees signing looks nailed on (from what Ive heard) but I hope that falls through!!

I'd be very happy with front row options of...

Mitchell/Andrews
Breeze/Dacey/Williams
Hobbs/Gill

We'd then be a lock, 9 and centre from a very very strong team!!

I'm surprised you aren't a fan of the Rees signing. I watched the Lions tests on ESPN classic last night and the guy was everywhere. It would be wonderful for all if he played like that again... Blues pack seem to have fronted up from their unbelievable drubbing in Dublin. If the pack play around the park like they did on saturday he would fit into that unit quite well. Breeze is also a good option to bring off the bench. Also considering you could have Pretorious (or Hamilton) and Patterson on the bench you should be quite happy that your team will have a pack capable of getting them back in the mix with Europe's elite. You also have the fly-half.

I'd love to see Mathew Rees at the Blues, but I’ve got an amazing amount of time for Breeze who is a great player around the field. When our scrum isn’t getting annihilated his work rate is very high. The Sale away game is a good case in point. He was immense that game.

Mickado wrote:

Notch wrote:Did everyone see this?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ogara-stakes-lions-claim-with-classy-display-3343851.html

I did enjoy that alright.

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/a-twitter-lesson-for-aspiring-sports-journalists/#sthash.Q528lndG.6rIKs8GF.dpbs

I reckon he's just redressing the perceived imbalance.

The Cork Echo- who would have guessed?

Do people think Kidney is the one who is making Penny play ROG?

I always thought it was the Munster suits

LordDowlais wrote:Comfort, these are the names being talked about down at the Blues, well thats what my old man is telling me anyway, actually the Craig Mitchell rumours seem to be the loudesd as he is only on a meagre wage at Exeter and the Blues could easily double his wages without breaking the bank, even more so now that Jamie Roberts is leaving at the end of the year.

That would be outstanding, if we managed to get Gill, Rees and Mitchell that would be outstanding, we would have a first choice front row to match the ospreys, and 2 props who still have close to a decade left in them. We would also still have Andrews and Hobbs as backup. Getting Mitchell in for Filise and Campese's contract would be money well spent, as would getting Gill and Rees for Roberts contract.

Now I just need a quality SH to be linked to the Blues...anyone got Will Genia's number?

I have also heared Toby Falatue to the Ospreys rumour, can anybody add any substance to this ?

LordDowlais wrote:I have also heared Toby Falatue to the Ospreys rumour, can anybody add any substance to this ?

They could certainly use him. However, I would doubt they would be willing to by him out of his contract, perhaps next year if he stays at the dragons.

wales606 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have also heared Toby Falatue to the Ospreys rumour, can anybody add any substance to this ?

They could certainly use him. However, I would doubt they would be willing to by him out of his contract, perhaps next year if he stays at the dragons.

These are the sort of noises I have been hearing, I do not think he wants to leave Wales and is just waiting for his contract to run down. With Joe Bearman not getting any younger and Stowers looking as though he is off Falatau will be an ideal signing for them, a big shme for the dragons though.

LordDowlais wrote:

wales606 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have also heared Toby Falatue to the Ospreys rumour, can anybody add any substance to this ?

They could certainly use him. However, I would doubt they would be willing to by him out of his contract, perhaps next year if he stays at the dragons.

These are the sort of noises I have been hearing, I do not think he wants to leave Wales and is just waiting for his contract to run down. With Joe Bearman not getting any younger and Stowers looking as though he is off Falatau will be an ideal signing for them, a big shme for the dragons though.

If they gave back Morgan Allen I guess it wouldn't be such a big loss.

Morgannwg wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

wales606 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have also heared Toby Falatue to the Ospreys rumour, can anybody add any substance to this ?

They could certainly use him. However, I would doubt they would be willing to by him out of his contract, perhaps next year if he stays at the dragons.

These are the sort of noises I have been hearing, I do not think he wants to leave Wales and is just waiting for his contract to run down. With Joe Bearman not getting any younger and Stowers looking as though he is off Falatau will be an ideal signing for them, a big shme for the dragons though.

If they gave back Morgan Allen I guess it wouldn't be such a big loss.

Morgan Allen looks like a fantastic prospect, a real strong ball carrier, i'm sure he will either push Faletau for a place or get a first choice contract at another region in a few years.

Wales:

I suspect Allen will be with the Ospreys for some time, I suspect he will replace Stowers next season. He is much like a Ben Morgan type 8 with a low centre of gravity. I can't see Faletau going to the Ospreys he is more likely to go to the Blues if he stays in Wales (if he leaves the Dragons).

glamorganalun wrote:Wales:

I suspect Allen will be with the Ospreys for some time, I suspect he will replace Stowers next season. He is much like a Ben Morgan type 8 with a low centre of gravity. I can't see Faletau going to the Ospreys he is more likely to go to the Blues if he stays in Wales (if he leaves the Dragons).

Faletau would be a fantastic signing for the blues. If the dan Lydiate rumours come true then we could recreate the entire welsh backrow .

But I suspect that Faletau will go to England if he can't get a good offer from a welsh club

Am I alone in thinking that Toby and Lydiate would be a step too far in regards of money for us, we wouldn’t see a lot of them. I'm starting to really dislike having international players at the region as we don't get our monies worth. Maybe I’m just being cynical.

Coleman wrote:Am I alone in thinking that Toby and Lydiate would be a step too far in regards of money for us, we wouldn’t see a lot of them. I'm starting to really dislike having international players at the region as we don't get our monies worth. Maybe I’m just being cynical.

Faletau is one of the few who play a lot outside of internationals.

I don't really want to see Lydiate at the blues to be honest, although I think his work effort and relationship with Warbs would be good for the team, but we have Paterson and navidi at 6 anyway.

Even if the Blues get the current Welsh back row I still think the Ospreys back row is better the way they are playing.