He Has Not Earned It So He Shouldn't Get The Fight

by davidemore Mon 07 Jan 2013, 10:24 am

No offence, as the guy is very young and very strong. Bull like strength he has. However, Canelo has not fought an elite or world level fighter yet. So why should he get to fight Mayweather this year?

Also, Mayweather likes to see his opponents in against a genuine threat before he fights them. He's not going to learn much about Canelo if he keeps knocking over bloated welterweights and past it legends like Sugar Shane.

http://www.boxingscene.com/team-canelo-expect-mayweather-jr-fight-2013--61154

Step up or step of, Canelo. That WBC belt of yours is starting to annoy me like Nathan's annoys me. The difference being your Champion status is being exploited on a bigger stage, and making you even more money.

Thoughts?

by Rowley Mon 07 Jan 2013, 10:33 am

So Alvarez gets grief for not fighting decent fighters over the last couple of years but now gets abuse for potentially fighting the best fighter in the world. Wish folk would make their mind up. Personally don’t give a monkey’s whether he has “earned” it or not, it’s a good fight, not sure anything else should matter too much to us as fans.

by **superflyweight** Mon 07 Jan 2013, 10:40 am

Fighters fighting really is quite annoying. Down with this sort of thing.

by manos de piedra Mon 07 Jan 2013, 10:43 am

I don’t really see the problem myself. Its not like there Mayweather has a huge amount of options anyway. Alvarez is pretty highly rated, the fight would be massive, he brings a lot to the title. I wouldn’t criticise him at all if he wanted to test himself against the top guy in boxing. Would people criticise cleverly if he signed to fight Dawson or Pascal? Isnt that what most people have wanted?

I think Alvarez/Mayweather is better than Guerrero.

by Qoxiivi Mon 07 Jan 2013, 10:44 am

Careful now...

by **88Chris05** Mon 07 Jan 2013, 11:04 am

Imploring Alvarez to step up and then bemoaning the fact that he's (seemingly) fighting Mayweather this year doesn't make the most sense in the world I must say, Davide!

Besides, what other fight out there stands out as being significantly better than this one? I don't wish to waste any more time talking about the possibility of Floyd fighting you know who, we've already seen which way the wind blows on Mayweather-Marquez (and let's be frank, Marquez has got a certain re-re-re-rematch in the making for this year in any case), Guerrero offers relatively little in terms of financial clout and a top-notch challenge, ditto Trout, and Cotto is, by the looks of things, simply not a fighter of the elite class anymore.

I'm not convinced that Alvarez is the fighter to beat Mayweather (as captain said, the chances of this being a virtual replica of Whitaker-Vasquez at 154 lb are high, in my book), but at the end of the day you can't really knock a fight between an unbeaten, hard-hitting youngster with a massive fan base and the pound for pound number one who, if nothing else, will be facing a significant weight disadvantage come fight night. On top of that, it'll be a unification fight, too.

You could argue that Alvarez has maybe jumped the queue to some extent, but it's a decent match up when all's said and done. And, unlike a certain Mr Ortiz, I don't think that Alvarez will in any way be happy to just turn up and hope for the win, rather than actually trying to make it happen.

by davidemore Mon 07 Jan 2013, 12:07 pm

Guys,

What upsets me is the name association tactics of Canelo. Mark my words, he will not fight Mayweather this year. Not until Mayweather is shot will he fight him. He will however, use his name and feed off his P4P rep to improve his own staged career.

He must fight Trout next, nothing less will do. And he must stop using Mayweather's name to hype his own.

by davidemore Mon 07 Jan 2013, 12:09 pm

Also, regardless of his age, if Canelo does not step up soon he'll end up getting Lucien Bute'd.

He can't keep fighting sub par opposition and then step up, he'll get mauled.

I think Trout takes Canelo.

At 147 Mayweather murders him.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 07 Jan 2013, 12:41 pm

Shocking................

Fancy a champ fighting a unfancied challenger.............

wepner v ALI
Paychek v LOUIS
Ocasio v HOLMES

by Lumbering_Jack Mon 07 Jan 2013, 12:44 pm

Canelo should earn his shot at Mayweather by fighting 20 more fighters who are vastly inferior to him.

Then boxing fans will be happy.

by milkyboy Mon 07 Jan 2013, 1:10 pm

"Bull like strength he has"... but the force is still strong in young mayweather so it is

It would be good to see canelo fight someone with a pulse, but with the paucity of interesting opponents for floyd, at least his size brings something to the table

by Super D Boon Mon 07 Jan 2013, 1:38 pm

I must confess but somewhat embarissingly I agree with Davidemore here. Canelo and his handlers have no intention of fighting Mayweather and are just hyping their star. Like Chavez Jnr, Canelo will manipulate his large fan base to keep fighting stiffs for a good while longer whilst frequently name dropping. They might target Mayweather if they see visible signs of him being past it. The same thing Chavez Jnr tried with a 37 year old and considerably smaller Martinez yet the talentless middleweight/cruiserweight still got outclassed and battered.

Canelo is still very raw and I think suseptible to hooks and body shots. I think he's got holes that Mayweather would ruthlessly exploit. Can't see it happening.

by davidemore Mon 07 Jan 2013, 1:43 pm

Thank you Super Boon.

The sad thing is, I don't think it will help Canelo in the long run.

He'll end up going in against a genuinely world-class opponent and getting beat. Simply because he's fought lesser opposition for too long.

I'm not saying he isn't talented, and hasn't achieved a lot at his young age. But he needs to stop name dropping fighters he has no intention of facing and no chance of beating.

by TheMackemMawler Mon 07 Jan 2013, 1:56 pm

Out of all the weights Floyd has fought at (outside of Super-feather) has he ever fought the No. 1 rated champion for a title (other than Castillo)?

According to the Ring Anual Ratings in the year in which he won his titles:

He won light-welter from Gatti (ring ranked 7, 2005)

Welter from Judah (ring ranked 4, 2006)

Light Middle from Oscar (ranked 3, 2007)

Welter again from Hatton (unrated, 2008)

etc...

I'm sure the same can be said for Manny.

Both great fighters but worth mentioning anyway.

Canelo's ring ranked No. 2 after Floyyd so why not fight?

by davidemore Mon 07 Jan 2013, 2:42 pm

The Ring can kiss mine. They are the definitive hype job.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 07 Jan 2013, 3:03 pm

He's not really polished enough to beat him, would like to see him face Trout if he gets past him then fair enough go for Floyd, big weight advantage, proven he's the number 2 LMW and a threat to Floyd.

As for this "GoldenBoy has been feeding him stiffs" is overly harsh. Kirkland was clearly the biggest threat after he destroyed Angulo but then he was demanding ridiculous money so the negotiations broke down, where has Kirkland been since? Paul Williams was scheduled to face him who is not a pushover, but then he got paralyzed, so that's two cases of bad luck. So, they ended up going for the fight with the most glamour, money and exposure against Mosley.

Ortiz was meant to cruise past Lopez and face Alvarez, everyone was saying that was a good matchup, Ortiz broke his jaw, there would have been ducker comments left right and centre if he didn't then fight the man that beat Ortiz. Naturally because he takes the fight he is criticised to no end, Lopez outweighed Canelo on the night by the way...

He wanted to face Cotto, who had just pushed Floyd all the way, how many at pre-Trout would have said that was taking the easy route? Cotto then lost to Trout scuppering that, going by what I have read reports suggest Canelo and Trout are in negotiations, Trout being a big threat and looking to take him on is not the signs of a ducker.

Looking at all the evidence fairly Canelo has been unlucky with freak upsets, accidents etc. happening to him, wouldn't shock me if Trout has to get his foot amputated in the buildup.

But it's much easier to sit there and whinge.

by Atila Mon 07 Jan 2013, 3:12 pm

Canelo has not earned a fight with Mayweather, but that type of stuff doesn't matter anymore. He's popular, hyped and sells tickets and that's enough for many fans.

I read somewhere that Canelo has yet to defend his title against a top 10 opponent?

by AlexHuckerby Mon 07 Jan 2013, 3:13 pm

Ryan Rhodes was mandatory I believe.

by Boxtthis Mon 07 Jan 2013, 3:21 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:As for this "GoldenBoy has been feeding him stiffs" is overly harsh. Kirkland was clearly the biggest threat after he destroyed Angulo but then he was demanding ridiculous money so the negotiations broke down, where has Kirkland been since? Paul Williams was scheduled to face him who is not a pushover, but then he got paralyzed, so that's two cases of bad luck. So, they ended up going for the fight with the most glamour, money and exposure against Mosley.

Ortiz was meant to cruise past Lopez and face Alvarez, everyone was saying that was a good matchup, Ortiz broke his jaw, there would have been ducker comments left right and centre if he didn't then fight the man that beat Ortiz. Naturally because he takes the fight he is criticised to no end

Could not agree more. When you actually look at his situation, rather than jumping straight in with criticism, you realise that he's had terrible luck with opponents. Canelo clearly intended to have fought a top guy at 154, then he went for a huge and skilled WW in Ortiz, then Ortiz lost - so what was he supposed to have done? Fight the loser? Canelo gets an unfair shake in this respect.

He should probably have a big fight or two before fighting Mayweather, but who? Cotto (no way after losing to Trout)? Angulo (in the rebuilding process after Kirkland loss)? Kirkland (maybe)? Lara/Martirosyan (just drew, not big money at all)? Bundrage (a non name)? Trout (a good fight, but is there any money in it?). If there was a naturally big fight for Canelo other than Maweather then I think we'd be hearing about that. But, when you look at the options for both men - is it really so ridiculous?

by manos de piedra Mon 07 Jan 2013, 4:29 pm

The amount of money and interest alone that Alvarez brings to the table makes him a viable opponent. Its got to be one of the biggest fights out there now, especially with Pacquaio/Mayweather looking like its sailed.

by SharkSoul Mon 07 Jan 2013, 4:36 pm

I find it absolutely ridiculous when people accuse Canelo of being 'undeserving' of a shot at Mayweather because he hasn't fought certain people. It's like you can't win with some of you guys on this forum, it's pre-determined that the kid is going to get stick no matter what he does.

As for the Money fight well as much as I like Alvarez I do believe he loses this one at this stage of his career. He is getting villified for 'Fighting Cotto' which hasn't even been signed yet but I still think this would be a good test for him because whether you think Cotto is 'past it' or not he is still technically sound at what he does and would go the distance with Canelo.

Would I prefer him to fight Trout well yes of course I would but I wouldn't think fighting Cotto would do his career any harm right now.

If you have a dis-liking towards GoldenBoy then that is fine but don't let that dis-colour your opinion of Canelo. I don't doubt for one second he would get in the ring with anyone right now and he definitily wants to fight the very best.

by azania Mon 07 Jan 2013, 5:24 pm

My view of Canelo is consistent. Chinny dude who was gifted a belt for his coming out party and defended against neo corpses.

The Floyd fight will not happen because Trout (if WBC have the gonads to make the match) will annihilate him without much fuss. Over-hyped because of his hair colour.

by Super D Boon Mon 07 Jan 2013, 5:37 pm

That's a nice way of putting it Az but in your case it's not the hair colour that bothers you.

Anyway, I agree on this ocassion. Hype job who throws lots of swinging wild punches and has holes in his defence. A good and still prime boxer will exploit that.

by azania Mon 07 Jan 2013, 5:51 pm

Super D Boon wrote:That's a nice way of putting it Az but in your case it's not the hair colour that bothers you.

Anyway, I agree on this ocassion. Hype job who throws lots of swinging wild punches and has holes in his defence. A good and still prime boxer will exploit that.

Care to elaborate on that?

by Rowley Mon 07 Jan 2013, 5:57 pm

azania wrote:
Super D Boon wrote:That's a nice way of putting it Az but in your case it's not the hair colour that bothers you.

Anyway, I agree on this ocassion. Hype job who throws lots of swinging wild punches and has holes in his defence. A good and still prime boxer will exploit that.

Care to elaborate on that?

No he wouldn't, nor should anyone else, because this whole issue is fast becoming toxic on here, we cleared one thread up the other day that went down this route, we're unlikely to keep doing so.

by azania Mon 07 Jan 2013, 6:04 pm

No worries. But people throwing that card at me should at least be warned. Frankly its annoying.

by Imperial Ghosty Mon 07 Jan 2013, 6:21 pm

TheMackemMawler wrote:Out of all the weights Floyd has fought at (outside of Super-feather) has he ever fought the No. 1 rated champion for a title (other than Castillo)?

According to the Ring Anual Ratings in the year in which he won his titles:

He won light-welter from Gatti (ring ranked 7, 2005)

Welter from Judah (ring ranked 4, 2006)

Light Middle from Oscar (ranked 3, 2007)

Welter again from Hatton (unrated, 2008)

etc...

I'm sure the same can be said for Manny.

Both great fighters but worth mentioning anyway.

Canelo's ring ranked No. 2 after Floyyd so why not fight?

Think you've looked at it the wrong way Mackem, they would have been the year end rankings rather than at the time of the fights.

Hernandez- number 1
Manfredy- number 5
Corales- number 1
Chavez- number 8

Castillo- number 1 *2

Corley- number 6
Gatti- number 4 (not quite sure because Hatton had beaten Tzuyu earlier in the year while Maussa had beaten Harris)

Judah- number 1
Baldomir- champion (Baldomir had beaten Judah for the ring title)

De La Hoya- number 6

Hatton- ???? (was briefly ranked after beating Collazo but lost ranking after Mayweather loss and move back down to 140lbs)
Marquez- unranked but p4p number 3
Mosley- number 2
Ortiz- number 3

Cotto- number 1

Have to remember Mackem that their losses to Mayweather all the fighters would have lost places in the divisional rankings.

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 07 Jan 2013, 7:29 pm

Canelo v Mayweather is a live fight. I look forward to it.

by spencerclarke Mon 07 Jan 2013, 7:46 pm

It's a fight I would love to see. I'd fully expect Mayweather to win but I can't really see anyone around his weight beating him so this is as good as any. I believe canelo gets a little too much stick as Alex has pointed out he has had a lot of live fights fall through for one reason or another.

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