Scotland squad for the 6 Nations

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Edit - Original 1000 or so posts on this thread are here https://www.606v2.com/t38845p950-scotland-squad-for-the-6-nations - KiwiPete

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Been browsing some Rugby news sites...

Regarding the delay in announcing the Scotland captain, Johnson can't really be thinking about playing Stroks at 6 instead of brown can he?

No but there may be other players he feels could be better captains, given the strong representation of Glasgow in the squad, Kellock maybe.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I think moving Dunbar to the A squad was an error too.

I wonder how long into the tournament we'll be before everyone starts talking about how, regardless of how much we're being horsed by, at least NDL isn't stuffing things up at 13...

Quite quickly, I would think.

jimbopip wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

jimbopip wrote:GC yet again I find myself agreeing with you.
13 seems to be our one spot where no-one is screaming to be picked.
Schlong has the defensive capabilities but you could replace Maitland and McVisser with me and thee for all the ball that we would see.
Evans is strangely deceptive; he will break the line and beat the first defender more often than most but nothing ever comes from it.
Horne is a big laddie, (bless Bill McLaren) , who has very fast feet and a good sense of when to pass. Is he ready to be thrown into a Calcutta cup match?
I would throw caution to the wind and start Horne, but my job isn't on the line.

That's because you have wisdom beyond your years Jimbo young feller me lad.

George, in our part of Essex people are standing on touchlines on freezing cold Saturday afternoons to see the legendary madmental Scotsman who has come out of retirement to play second team rugby with his son. We make quite a pair of wingers; at 20 years old he is 6'5" and has no body fat (fitness trainer and amateur boxer) whereas I'm 5'9" and cast a shadow that nestles somewhere between Chunk and Alfred Hitchcock, but I am giving him 34 years.

Awesome!

As is usually the case with Scotland, not playing does your reputation no harm at all, and I suspect NDL will benefit. The "anyone but" school of rugby fans, and Scotland has more than its fair share of subscribers, have conveyed knighthoods on all sorts of rugby players who haven't actually done very much!

Rennie and Barclay will probably be world class Lions certainties by the end of the tournament, assuming they stay injured.

Solid8 wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

jimbopip wrote:GC yet again I find myself agreeing with you.
13 seems to be our one spot where no-one is screaming to be picked.
Schlong has the defensive capabilities but you could replace Maitland and McVisser with me and thee for all the ball that we would see.
Evans is strangely deceptive; he will break the line and beat the first defender more often than most but nothing ever comes from it.
Horne is a big laddie, (bless Bill McLaren) , who has very fast feet and a good sense of when to pass. Is he ready to be thrown into a Calcutta cup match?
I would throw caution to the wind and start Horne, but my job isn't on the line.

That's because you have wisdom beyond your years Jimbo young feller me lad.

George, in our part of Essex people are standing on touchlines on freezing cold Saturday afternoons to see the legendary madmental Scotsman who has come out of retirement to play second team rugby with his son. We make quite a pair of wingers; at 20 years old he is 6'5" and has no body fat (fitness trainer and amateur boxer) whereas I'm 5'9" and cast a shadow that nestles somewhere between Chunk and Alfred Hitchcock, but I am giving him 34 years.

Awesome!

Total respect Jimbo. You can say that you taught him everything he knows. And that you used to look like that...

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Rennie and Barclay will probably be world class Lions certainties by the end of the tournament, assuming they stay injured.

In fairness Lydiate is making a lot of Lions XVs despite being injured for nearly a year.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

I don't mean to say he's been playing badly. Not a bad tackler, not a bad passer, not a bad kicker. Nice club player to have.

No-one was even considering Horne until he scored THAT try.

Not a bad passer???, I actually think Horne is one of the best distributors of the ball we have. With regard to the try, look at Horne's pass to Kellock earlier in the move, its those sorts of passes that invite the reciever to run on to them that scotland have been missing for ages. Horne is in the international setup on merit. He's not a 'nice' club player who accidently found himself in the Scotland squad.

Although having said all that, I think he has suffered from being moved around from 15 to 13 and now to 12.

Can you genuinely say that had Horne not scored that try (he wasn't even picked to start that match!), you'd be talking him up to start for Scotland?

I'd be very surprised.

Alex Grove is a better player in my opinion, although I suppose that he is more of a 13 than a 12, and it's really at 12 we need cover for Scott.

Personally I had hoped that Dunbar could have continued his development at 12 this season, but he's been shunted to 13 (and hasn't exactly shone this season in that role).

I'll give you this, I'd rather have Horne at 13 than Evans!

funnyExiledScot wrote:Can you genuinely say that had Horne not scored that try (he wasn't even picked to start that match!), you'd be talking him up to start for Scotland?

I'd be very surprised.

Alex Grove is a better player in my opinion, although I suppose that he is more of a 13 than a 12, and it's really at 12 we need cover for Scott.

Personally I had hoped that Dunbar could have continued his development at 12 this season, but he's been shunted to 13 (and hasn't exactly shone this season in that role).

I'll give you this, I'd rather have Horne at 13 than Evans!

I would rather have NDL than Evans at 13
I would rather have a boiled cabbage, resting on the legs of virgins than Evans at 13
I would rather have a left tittie fall from the sky and blind me than have Evans at 13

Actually, thinking again - don't want NDL either

I didn't say he should start. But I have discussed Horne's potential on this forum long before his recent try against Northampton. In fact I think I was discussing him with you FES at the time - memory is not working today, being Monday...

I agree Grove should be in the running, and I would have liked to see a partnership between Scott at 12 and Horne at 13 (had Horne been playing there this season)

Riskysports wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Can you genuinely say that had Horne not scored that try (he wasn't even picked to start that match!), you'd be talking him up to start for Scotland?

I'd be very surprised.

Alex Grove is a better player in my opinion, although I suppose that he is more of a 13 than a 12, and it's really at 12 we need cover for Scott.

Personally I had hoped that Dunbar could have continued his development at 12 this season, but he's been shunted to 13 (and hasn't exactly shone this season in that role).

I'll give you this, I'd rather have Horne at 13 than Evans!

I would rather have NDL than Evans at 13
I would rather have a boiled cabbage, resting on the legs of virgins than Evans at 13
I would rather have a left tittie fall from the sky and blind me than have Evans at 13

Actually, thinking again - don't want NDL either

We'll easily get this thread to 1,000 posts as well if we all start to think about the things we'd rather have happen than see Evans at 13.

I'd rather get an arrow through the neck and then discover there's a council tax demand tied to it than see Evans at 13.

So much of this turns on Scott Johnson and how he sees selection. The off-factor here is that he may well have agreed with Robinson about a lot of players. 10 new caps in the training squad would suggest not, however.

I would actually like someone to explain in no less than 300 words why Max Evans deserves his slot in the Scotland squad.

Is it just so we can justify spending all that money to get his assault charge quashed?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I would actually like someone to explain in no less than 300 words why Max Evans deserves his slot in the Scotland squad.

Is it just so we can justify spending all that money to get his assault charge quashed?

Drunken bet?

I do believe that he had the best stats a couple of 6N's ago for line breaks and defenders beaten, and possibly yards made, but amazingly Scotland scored tries from almost none of these breaks. However, if he has learned to off-load at Castres- the back of the hand pass last week was simply breathtaking- then we could see these half- breaks lead to loads of tries, but then again Nigella Lawson might turn up at my door with some chocolate sauce and a devilish grin!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I would actually like someone to explain in no less than 300 words why Max Evans deserves his slot in the Scotland squad.

Is it just so we can justify spending all that money to get his assault charge quashed?

I've got one!

I'd rather him over Lee Jones....

In fact I'd rather have you on the wing Radge over Lee Jones!

my pace is electric....

jimbopip wrote:I do believe that he had the best stats a couple of 6N's ago for line breaks and defenders beaten, and possibly yards made, but amazingly Scotland scored tries from almost none of these breaks. However, if he has learned to off-load at Castres- the back of the hand pass last week was simply breathtaking- then we could see these half- breaks lead to loads of tries, but then again Nigella Lawson might turn up at my door with some chocolate sauce and a devilish grin!

Evans has good footwork and pretty decent pace, his main issues are a lack of physicality and the fact that most of his "yards made" are in a sideways direction. He isn't direct enough, and doesn't have the bulk to be an international 13 in the contact area.

Other 13s this year are likely to include Tuilagi (if he wasn't injured), Bastereaud, Bennevenuti, BOD and JD2. All are either hugely powerful, or technically excellent in the contact area. Max Evans is neither.

If he is to play anywhere it really should be wing, but then again I'd rather have Visser and Maitland.

He might bring some impact off the bench, but sadly the idea that there are "tired legs" in this day and age is really a myth, especially in the backs.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:my pace is electric....

Did you mean "pace-maker"?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:my pace is electric....

Did you mean "pace-maker"?

The cheap shots are coming in fast now!

In all serious though I did have reasonable pace over say 5-10 yards, beyond that and I was in need of revival.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:my pace is electric....

Did you mean "pace-maker"?

The cheap shots are coming in fast now!

In all serious though I did have reasonable pace over say 5-10 yards, beyond that and I was in need of revival.

So very slow over 1-4 yards :-)

I'm in no position to throw stones. When I played second row I inspected more rucks than Kellock, missed more tackles than Visser, dropped more balls than Chunk and was slower than Steve Borthwick.

In fact that last one probably isn't true.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:my pace is electric....

Did you mean "pace-maker"?

The cheap shots are coming in fast now!

In all serious though I did have reasonable pace over say 5-10 yards, beyond that and I was in need of revival.

I'm sure there's a joke out there to do with tighthead props, running fast, and pies on a fishing line - but it is a Monday and I can't think of one!

On anoother note why is Strokosch in contention to be playing at 6?

Same as Max Evans.... surely not?

Playing Kelly Brown anywhere else except the blind side is another mistake.

Brown at 6 and then let Beattie and Denton fight it out over the 7 and 8 slots.

RR - I agree

Time to stop shoe horning players into the wrong positions. That only happens when there is no possible other option....


.....or the other option is Max Evans

I asked the question about Strokosch as well. Surely you don't need both Harley and Strokosch in the squad, as well as Brown.

I can only assume we're going to see Brown at 7, which I don't like.

Radge, great job on the Scotland-England thread. That hint of unity in the olympics and the suggestion of no WUMing. There's no need for us to say anything, we've got the English posters winding each other up!

Max Evans is good at making half-breaks just in the past we've had no one good enough to follow them up, think Morrison at 12, Walker, Southwell, Danielli etc. now with intelligent rugby players like Maitland, Visser, Hogg and Scott around him he might be able to create problems. I don't want him to start because in general he's not great but I'm not averse to this sort of player playing because he can create something from nothing. Also I've never been aware of him being a bad defender which normally means he's quite good and is capable of decent things. And he has a nice girlfriend and so does his brother.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUJ9Gg7dgjg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aofQt3Nlrao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YRDlgz3yvI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOcXO88BJP0

There's my attempt I hope it does better convincing you than it did me

Scot Abroad wrote:Radge, great job on the Scotland-England thread. That hint of unity in the olympics and the suggestion of no WUMing. There's no need for us to say anything, we've got the English posters winding each other up!

Just had a read of the Daily Fail article that all of the English are getting worked up about on that thread, I'm tempted to start pointing out stats relating to the number of registered adult players in England vs southern hemisphere imports and the number of decent pros that are apparently "English" playing for Us and Wales. Like you say though they are doing a good job of winding each other up so I think that I may leave it until I'm REALLY bored.

Team announced

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) 10 caps, 1 try, 5 points
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors) uncapped
13 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) 71 caps, 8 tries, 40 points
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) 7 caps
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby) 5 caps, 4 tries, 20 points
10 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 15 caps, 2 conversions, 2 penalties, 2 drop-goals, 16 points
9 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) vice-captain 13 caps, 2 tries, 11 conversions and 22 penalties, 98 points

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) vice-captain, 5 caps
2 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors) 39 caps, 1 try, 5 points
3 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors) 49 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
4 Richie Gray (Sale Sharks) 27 caps, 1 try, 5 points
5 Jim Hamilton (Gloucester Rugby) 41 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) 30 caps, 1 try, 5 points
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) captain, 52 caps, 4 tries, 20 points
8 Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier) 16 caps, 3 tries, 15 points


Substitutes:
16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 63 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
17 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors) 15 caps
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby) 17 caps, 1 try, 5 points
19 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors) 47 caps, 1 try, 5 points
20 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) 9 caps
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps, 1 try, 5 points
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps, 1 conversion, 2 points
23 Max Evans (Castres) 32 caps, 3 tries, 15 points


Classic Coaches move by SJ, make Brown captain then play him out of position...

This is already being discussed here, to save any duplicate conversations...

https://www.606v2.com/t39946p150-england-vs-scotland-16h00-2-2-13-6n-build-up-and-match-thread#1818239

So, going to try and run around England are we?

Brown at 7 is a surprise...!

why is he playing brown at 7?!

Otherwise good selection, but I think it's clear from Brown's club form that he's happiest at 6. Once again heaping the pressure on his shoulders, I just hope he can deal with it.

I don't rate Strockosh, don't know why he's on that team sheet over Harley or Wilson.

BUT negatives aside, the back-row is all I have Qualms with, I think the vice captains idea isn't a bad one, good to see Ryan Grant has already got the honour after only a few caps! Excellent to see Beattie back.

OH and max evans on the bench... that moron shouldn't be near the 23

Not a bad XXIII. But no MacArthur,Harley or Horne. Where did Wee Dunkie come from, was he not released for the A squad? If anything happens to Scott we have no 12 cover, unless Schlong goes in one and Max Evans goes 13 in which case the wingers can take their Kindles out of their back pockets and catch up on the latest Hilary Mantel. Or Wee Dunkie ar 10 and Ruaridh at 12 which Toonie has never, ever seemed to consider at Glasgow. Brown at 7, Strokes over Harley and Dozer... looks like a real toe to toe slug out. How long till Big Jim's first yellow card? An hour of two packs battering each other then Kellock and Denton come on to add dynamism to the cause.Do we see Evans then as well?
Well, it could work.
Defensively Schlong will do a job at 13 as long as they run straight at him, but if they try to baffle him with science...
This is a lot more conservative than I had expected from SJ, but it doesn't make me feel all tingly and hopefull, but I don't quite know why

Haha good one Johnson, trolling the fans by pretending to play Hall instead of MacArthur.... ...haha....ha.... ......

So, all in all - is this team going to beat England at Twickenham?

nobbled wrote:So, all in all - is this team going to beat England at Twickenham?

I don't want to say yes or no right now.

It depends on how our set piece performs.

If we get lineout sorted then I can see Scotland in with a chance.

Likelihood is that Scotland will lose but I don't think it'll be a big margin, especially looking at this weeks weather so far down south. Looking at that teamsheet, head says England, heart says Scotland.

But when does paper ever transfer to pitch anyway?

Surprise me Scotland!

Should England win? Yes.
Can Scotland win? Yes.

Provided:
1. Laidlaw kicks his goals.
2. Everyone plays well.
3. Our back three see some of the ball.
4. Denton replaces the Baldy Heedbanger after three and half minutes.
5. Maxwell 'blind alley' Evans does not get remotely close to the pitch.
6. Ross Ford takes no lineout throws whatsoever.
7. The England team are as generally overconfident as a lot of their fans clearly are.
8. My wife tells me I can't watch the match. That's when we usually win.

George Carlin wrote:Should England win? Yes.
Can Scotland win? Yes.

Provided:
1. Laidlaw kicks his goals.
2. Everyone plays well.
3. Our back three see some of the ball.
4. Denton replaces the Baldy Heedbanger after three and half minutes.
5. Maxwell 'blind alley' Evans does not get remotely close to the pitch.
6. Ross Ford takes no lineout throws whatsoever.
7. The England team are as generally overconfident as a lot of their fans clearly are.
8. My wife tells me I can't watch the match. That's when we usually win.

I think Saturday will be mostly about who's pack can dominate. Although you do make some very true points, your wife better be in a bad mood come this weekend!

NeilyBroon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Should England win? Yes.
Can Scotland win? Yes.

Provided:
1. Laidlaw kicks his goals.
2. Everyone plays well.
3. Our back three see some of the ball.
4. Denton replaces the Baldy Heedbanger after three and half minutes.
5. Maxwell 'blind alley' Evans does not get remotely close to the pitch.
6. Ross Ford takes no lineout throws whatsoever.
7. The England team are as generally overconfident as a lot of their fans clearly are.
8. My wife tells me I can't watch the match. That's when we usually win.

I think Saturday will be mostly about who's pack can dominate. Although you do make some very true points, your wife better be in a bad mood come this weekend!

Not usually a problem, Neily.

If Saturday is decided, as most games are, by the fat boys then I would suggest we are in with a shout.
Front row ; better props, and Hall is an improvement on Ford.
Second Row; certainly bigger and heavier and Hamilton wont let anyone push him around.
Back Row; I think picked to support Schlong- crash ball, direct running,quick clear out hit runners in space (sounds easy).
So why don't I feel all tingly and excited about the prospect of sitting with my English mates beer in hand watching this?
I feel all Private Fraser.
On the bright side Gray the younger and the messiah are playing for the under 20s- should be interesting.

No sign of the A squad announcement yet, but found this little snippet on the pages of media giant "Bedford Today"

http://www.bedfordtoday.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/taylor-gets-scotland-a-call-as-blues-play-on-friday-1-4728617

well that's interesting, anyone seen him play?

I vaguely remember people talking about a Scottish qualified player in the Saracens squad for the last Melrose sevens, think that might be him. That's all I know.

Pretty sure he came on agaisnt Edinburgh in the HC, fairly big lad if I remember correctly

Pat_Mustard wrote:I vaguely remember people talking about a Scottish qualified player in the Saracens squad for the last Melrose sevens, think that might be him. That's all I know.

there was a bunch of them, Ben Ransom too, but hes thrown his lot in with the english.

Couple of very interesting things coming from Kevin Kerrie in the Herald this morning, all of which I think we can assume to be true:

1. Horne ruled himself out of contention by telling the coaching staff that he wasn't 100% and so it wasn't right that he be considered for selection.

2. If Horne hadn't been fit, it wouldn't have been Schlong that he replaced. It would have been Scott.

3. Johnson has been watching Johnnie Beattie play since he was 18.

Scotland A squad to be named this afternoon, duncan taylor of the saracens will be named in the squad,,

he plays centre/wing, is 23, 6ft 3" and 14 and a half stone,

maybe he and max evans should just swap places - cant be any worse than evans,,

Nice one! I hadn't heard of him before. I see he plays for Saracens too, must be alright then.