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The Wales squad - Scotland, Autumn Nations Cup, and beyond

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 22 Sep 2020, 10:06 pm

Wayne Pivac will announce the squad on October 6th, likely to be a Scarlet-heavy selection and rightly so. I would also like to see new players come in so we can see what they have to offer. 

Wales might play France on October 24th in warm-up, but there is currently some doubt on whether this will go ahead. Next up is the re-arranged 6N match with Scotland on October 31st. In the autumn nations cup Wales will face-off against Ireland, England, Georgia and either France, Fiji, Italy or Scotland. 

Venues to be announced.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 7:53 am

Didn't realise halfpenny had suffered another concussion. Probably not a starter but must be quite worrying for those around him as hes had a fair few now.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 8:46 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Didn't realise halfpenny had suffered another concussion. Probably not a starter but must be quite worrying for those around him as hes had a fair few now.

Yes it's been quite a few for him now and that's not good... He sustained this one by putting his head on the wrong side again versus Toulon, brave guy and good player though. I'm not sure when Liam Williams is back either. McNicholl will probably need ankle surgery. I think now we could see some or all in the squad; Holmes, Stef Evans, Hewitt, Rees-Zammit.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 8:55 am

Rees-Zammit has looked ok in his couple of games at full back, not ideal though. Probably less risky for Holmes thereif the others are ruled out.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 9:55 am

I'd like to see LRZ feature at some point, but on the wing. I imagine Holmes will be at 15.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 1:51 pm

Perfect opportunity to cap Phil Dollman.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 2:34 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:Perfect opportunity to cap Phil Dollman.

He’s in great form but I think he’s retiring this season, or is it next season now? I’m not sure.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 2:37 pm

Can anyone clarify if the European games and premiership play-offs clash with some or all of these Wales fixtures? If they’re available and fit, Francis and Rowlands are in the match day 23 for me. Be interesting to see if we plan on phasing out AWJ. Going forward Ball and Rowlands seems like a good 2nd row.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 3:15 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Perfect opportunity to cap Phil Dollman.

He’s in great form but I think he’s retiring this season, or is it next season now? I’m not sure.

It was tongue in cheek but worse things have happened (and worse players have had 1 cap for Wales).

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Post by MichaelT on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 3:18 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Can anyone clarify if the European games and premiership play-offs clash with some or all of these Wales fixtures

Premiership final is 24th Oct. ECC final is 17th Oct. Premiership semi-finals 10th Oct.

Think the premiership final will clash?

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Post by PhilBB on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 4:22 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:I'd like to see LRZ feature at some point, but on the wing. I imagine Holmes will be at 15.

He's presently being kept out of the Gloucester team by Matt Banahan

Does that suggest international quality?
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 4:31 pm

If you've watched him you'll know that Rees-Zammit is indeed international quality.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 7:57 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:If you've watched him you'll know that Rees-Zammit is indeed international quality.

I suspect he hasn’t.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 7:57 pm

Looks like Wales are playing Scotland and Georgia at Parc-y-Scarlets.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 8:04 pm

MichaelT wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Can anyone clarify if the European games and premiership play-offs clash with some or all of these Wales fixtures

Premiership final is 24th Oct. ECC final is 17th Oct. Premiership semi-finals 10th Oct.

Think the premiership final will clash?

Depending on who makes the premiership final, we could be without; John, Francis, Rowlands... don’t think anyone else from the best 5 teams are in with a shout. Sheedy maybe, if we offer him a cap. The most they could miss is just one game, a friendly, which may be cancelled anyway. The trouble is gaining access to said players for training.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 8:58 pm

PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I'd like to see LRZ feature at some point, but on the wing. I imagine Holmes will be at 15.

He's presently being kept out of the Gloucester team by Matt Banahan

Does that suggest international quality?

Someone needs to explain squad rotation to Fillipe.

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Post by PhilBB on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 10:52 am

rugby racing and beer wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I'd like to see LRZ feature at some point, but on the wing. I imagine Holmes will be at 15.

He's presently being kept out of the Gloucester team by Matt Banahan

Does that suggest international quality?

Someone needs to explain squad rotation to Fillipe.

You really are living up to your reputation

Gloucester have played 8 games since the restart. LRZ has started just three of them, not been involved at all in two of them, benched for three of them.

So 3/8. He's started one game since August 26th.

In Gloucester's full strength derby against Bath, he was on the bench with Banahan starting.

Facts, eh, Champ? They tend to pee on whatever nonsense you've just thought up.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 11:21 am

But he's been in the 23 on all those occasions though. Going by last season and this season, he seems to be a first team player. I don't recall seeing Banahan's name on the team sheet that often since the season re-started. Glaws have Thorley and May, so if LRZ is in the 23 then he's pretty good. He's shown a bit of versatility by featuring at full-back, but that probably just a bit of experimentation - like it was with Banahan starting at 15.

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Post by PhilBB on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 11:32 am

mikey_dragon wrote:But he's been in the 23 on all those occasions though. Going by last season and this season, he seems to be a first team player. I don't recall seeing Banahan's name on the team sheet that often since the season re-started. Glaws have Thorley and May, so if LRZ is in the 23 then he's pretty good. He's shown a bit of versatility by featuring at full-back, but that probably just a bit of experimentation - like it was with Banahan starting at 15.

If he can't get a first team slot at Gloucester, who have publicly recognised the defensive weaknesses in his game, why should LRZ get selected ahead of North, Williams, Evans, Lane, Holmes, Halfpenny, Adams?
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 11:34 am

Altering the discussion away from Rees-Zammit not being international quality to wider conversation on whether he should start of bench for Wales depending on other players availability: good move. You were onto a loser to start with.

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Post by PhilBB on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 11:35 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Altering the discussion away from Rees-Zammit not being international quality to wider conversation on whether he should start of bench for Wales depending on other players availability: good move. You were onto a loser to start with.

I've just pointed out the list of Welsh back three players who are better selections than LRZ.

I see that you've got a particular bee in your bonnet today with this new game of "deliberately misrepresenting everything written, to the point of complete stupidity". It's pretty childlike and boring, you know.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 11:39 am

Your first point was questioning whether Rees-Zammit was international quality based on Banahan starting. In a response to mikey and myself suggesting there are better options at full back and hes better breaking through as winger. Happy if you agree with us.

I think he should be breaking through this autumn and winter though. The guy is quality.

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Post by PhilBB on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 11:42 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Your first point was questioning whether Rees-Zammit was international quality based on Banahan starting. In a response to mikey and myself suggesting there are better options at full back and hes better breaking through as winger. Happy if you agree with us.

I think he should be breaking through this autumn and winter though. The guy is quality.

How can a point be a question? It's either one or the other.

LRZ is not a better player than any of the back three players I've mentioned.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 11:51 am

So do you think hes international quality or not then as your statement then questions suggested you didn't.

I think hes pushing to be involved this next set of games personally and hes better than some you listed already and has the potential to be better than them all. You also seemed to ignore the original points of some of them not being available. But there we go not often it's a welshman talking down one of the hottest young talents in the game!

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Post by PhilBB on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 11:53 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:So do you think hes international quality or not then as your statement then questions suggested you didn't.

I think hes pushing to be involved this next set of games personally and hes better than some you listed already and has the potential to be better than them all. You also seemed to ignore the original points of some of them not being available. But there we go not often it's a welshman talking down one of the hottest young talents in the game!

International quality for Wales? For that to be the case he'd have to be a better player than those listed. Which players is he better than and which are unavailable?

International quality for other countries? No doubt.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 12:11 pm

PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:But he's been in the 23 on all those occasions though. Going by last season and this season, he seems to be a first team player. I don't recall seeing Banahan's name on the team sheet that often since the season re-started. Glaws have Thorley and May, so if LRZ is in the 23 then he's pretty good. He's shown a bit of versatility by featuring at full-back, but that probably just a bit of experimentation - like it was with Banahan starting at 15.

If he can't get a first team slot at Gloucester, who have publicly recognised the defensive weaknesses in his game, why should LRZ get selected ahead of North, Williams, Evans, Lane, Holmes, Halfpenny, Adams?

He can get a first team slot though.... You just showed that. Did they publicly recognise the supposed defensive weaknesses in his game?

Well he's better than Evans, possibly Holmes and has been in much better form than North since his pro debut so yeah he stands a good chance. Halfpenny is injured.

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Post by PhilBB on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 12:16 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:

He can get a first team slot though.... You just showed that. Did they publicly recognise the supposed defensive weaknesses in his game?

Well he's better than Evans, possibly Holmes and has been in much better form than North since his pro debut so yeah he stands a good chance. Halfpenny is injured.

Playing for Gloucester isn't an automatic entry into being the best option for Wales, is it? So playing for Gloucester is pretty irrelevant.

Big calls on Evans and Holmes, especially the form Evans has been in. Big call on North when you consider how Wales could use him as a carrier.

"Stands a good chance" is something we can all agree on, I think. Automatic first team choice? Not for me.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 12:17 pm

I'd have him off the bench personally and by the end of the set of matches he'd have shown enough to start I'm sure. So hes good enough to play internationally phil you just dont think hes a better option. That makes more sense than to suggest hes not good to play at the level which is what you did initially. Class player who is on form. Just a shame he isnt english.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 12:19 pm

PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:

He can get a first team slot though.... You just showed that. Did they publicly recognise the supposed defensive weaknesses in his game?

Well he's better than Evans, possibly Holmes and has been in much better form than North since his pro debut so yeah he stands a good chance. Halfpenny is injured.

Playing for Gloucester isn't an automatic entry into being the best option for Wales, is it? So playing for Gloucester is pretty irrelevant.

Big calls on Evans and Holmes, especially the form Evans has been in. Big call on North when you consider how Wales could use him as a carrier.

"Stands a good chance" is something we can all agree on, I think. Automatic first team choice? Not for me.

After all that you're basically agreeing with us.

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Post by PhilBB on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 12:25 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:

He can get a first team slot though.... You just showed that. Did they publicly recognise the supposed defensive weaknesses in his game?

Well he's better than Evans, possibly Holmes and has been in much better form than North since his pro debut so yeah he stands a good chance. Halfpenny is injured.

Playing for Gloucester isn't an automatic entry into being the best option for Wales, is it? So playing for Gloucester is pretty irrelevant.

Big calls on Evans and Holmes, especially the form Evans has been in. Big call on North when you consider how Wales could use him as a carrier.

"Stands a good chance" is something we can all agree on, I think. Automatic first team choice? Not for me.

After all that you're basically agreeing with us.

Yes, that's right, if you ignore the agreed meanings of words in the English language.
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Post by PhilBB on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 12:26 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'd have him off the bench personally and by the end of the set of matches he'd have shown enough to start I'm sure. So hes good enough to play internationally phil you just dont think hes a better option. That makes more sense than to suggest hes not good to play at the level which is what you did initially. Class player who is on form. Just a shame he isnt english.

He's not good enough if there are others better than him. That's blindingly obvious.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 12:35 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'd have him off the bench personally and by the end of the set of matches he'd have shown enough to start I'm sure. So hes good enough to play internationally phil you just dont think hes a better option. That makes more sense than to suggest hes not good to play at the level which is what you did initially. Class player who is on form. Just a shame he isnt english.

He's not good enough if there are others better than him. That's blindingly obvious.

That's 2 different things. 1 whether you're good enough to play at the highest level. 2. whether there are other options who are good enough to play.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 12:41 pm

PhilBB wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I'd like to see LRZ feature at some point, but on the wing. I imagine Holmes will be at 15.

He's presently being kept out of the Gloucester team by Matt Banahan

Does that suggest international quality?

Someone needs to explain squad rotation to Fillipe.

You really are living up to your reputation

Gloucester have played 8 games since the restart. LRZ has started just three of them, not been involved at all in two of them, benched for three of them.

So 3/8. He's started one game since August 26th.

In Gloucester's full strength derby against Bath, he was on the bench with Banahan starting.

Facts, eh, Champ? They tend to pee on whatever nonsense you've just thought up.

All I see is squad rotation, Phil. How are your 'facts' anything but bullsh1t conjecture?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 1:05 pm

PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:

He can get a first team slot though.... You just showed that. Did they publicly recognise the supposed defensive weaknesses in his game?

Well he's better than Evans, possibly Holmes and has been in much better form than North since his pro debut so yeah he stands a good chance. Halfpenny is injured.

Playing for Gloucester isn't an automatic entry into being the best option for Wales, is it? So playing for Gloucester is pretty irrelevant.

Big calls on Evans and Holmes, especially the form Evans has been in. Big call on North when you consider how Wales could use him as a carrier.

"Stands a good chance" is something we can all agree on, I think. Automatic first team choice? Not for me.

Eh? Nobody is saying that. If you're saying it then you may as well also say, playing for Cardiff isn't an automatic entry into being the best option for Wales. I know I'm certainly not saying any of that. I've been watching the prem and believe LRZ is one of a few players good enough to be in the Wales squad. As it happens, two of the best Wales forwards (possibly 3 if you include Young) play in the English Premiership - both would make my 23 if available.

Well it was equally a big call by you on LRZ, especially given the form he's been in.

I don't recall saying LRZ was an automatic first team choice.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 1:12 pm

Considering the wingers looked at Wales 12 months ago include Steff Evans and Luke Morgan, it's fair to say LRZ is going to be in the next Wales squad. With Liam Williams and Halfpenny likely injured, he's basically guaranteed a start in a few of the games. Josh Adams, North, LRZ. There's a drop off to the rest of the pack after that.

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Post by PhilBB on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 1:24 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:

All I see is squad rotation, Phil. How are your 'facts' anything but bullsh1t conjecture?

I've no doubt that is all you see, yes.
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Post by PhilBB on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 1:25 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:

Eh? Nobody is saying that. If you're saying it then you may as well also say, playing for Cardiff isn't an automatic entry into being the best option for Wales. I know I'm certainly not saying any of that. I've been watching the prem and believe LRZ is one of a few players good enough to be in the Wales squad. As it happens, two of the best Wales forwards (possibly 3 if you include Young) play in the English Premiership - both would make my 23 if available.


In which case, I think that you're vastly over valuing the GP.

Young isn't as good as many flankers within Wales, for example.
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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 1:30 pm

Great news that Jon Davies is available for the Scarlets v Ospreys friendly this weekend. Hope he has a run without injury now.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 1:30 pm

PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:

Eh? Nobody is saying that. If you're saying it then you may as well also say, playing for Cardiff isn't an automatic entry into being the best option for Wales. I know I'm certainly not saying any of that. I've been watching the prem and believe LRZ is one of a few players good enough to be in the Wales squad. As it happens, two of the best Wales forwards (possibly 3 if you include Young) play in the English Premiership - both would make my 23 if available.


In which case, I think that you're vastly over valuing the GP.

Young isn't as good as many flankers within Wales, for example.

It's fine for you to think that, but that isn't what you said in the beginning... For what it's worth, the GP currently looks a lot better than the Pro14 to me.

I would put Young in top 5 open-sides available to Wales, so he isn't far off in what is a position of great depth.

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Post by PhilBB on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 1:32 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:

Eh? Nobody is saying that. If you're saying it then you may as well also say, playing for Cardiff isn't an automatic entry into being the best option for Wales. I know I'm certainly not saying any of that. I've been watching the prem and believe LRZ is one of a few players good enough to be in the Wales squad. As it happens, two of the best Wales forwards (possibly 3 if you include Young) play in the English Premiership - both would make my 23 if available.


In which case, I think that you're vastly over valuing the GP.

Young isn't as good as many flankers within Wales, for example.

It's fine for you to think that, but that isn't what you said in the beginning... For what it's worth, the GP currently looks a lot better than the Pro14 to me.

I would put Young in top 5 open-sides available to Wales, so he isn't far off in what is a position of great depth.

You're right, it's undoubtedly better than the PrO. Hugely superior. Not even close.

Who is your top 5?
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 3:30 pm

Well my top 5 in no particular order are Navidi, Tipuric, Jenkins, Wainwright and Young. I realise that we play Navidi and Wainwright elsewhere nowadays, but each began life as an open-side and then moved around the back-row. Young is probably a like-for-like with Jenkins. Young does look very well suited to an open-game mind, but he's also very strong and physical in the collisions.

Aside from these 5 are a lot of good 7's putting their hands up so it is always going to be debatable. I think the Dragons have another two fantastic options at 7. Guys like Boyde and McLeod are also very good and can probably make the step up.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 3:32 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Great news that Jon Davies is available for the Scarlets v Ospreys friendly this weekend. Hope he has a run without injury now.

Great news indeed. I hope he's still got it, and it will be interesting to see him alongside Johnny Williams. I imagine Williams is line for a Wales cap too, he currently looks like our best 12 option.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 5:38 pm

PhilBB wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:

All I see is squad rotation, Phil. How are your 'facts' anything but bullsh1t conjecture?

I've no doubt that is all you see, yes.

Well, I also saw 2/5 lines of your comments as pointless, petty insults because you're that kind of person, it seems.

Then within your answer I saw all manner of fantasies - like the Gloucester first time is dictated by whoever plays Bath during an end of season, end of covid lockdown dead rubber. Apparently LRZ can't be rested of start from the bench, it means he's been dropped and is now considered...what...a 'lesser' player than Banahan?



Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 25 Sep 2020, 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Removal of personal attack)

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 25 Sep 2020, 9:38 am

Personal attacks are not allowed. I have posted this warning elsewhere, but if they continue posting privileges will be removed. Please note that a number of people have been warned now - and this does apply to everyone.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 25 Sep 2020, 9:38 am

As an aside arguing, debate etc is allowed - and really is teh point of forums like this - but keep it civil.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 25 Sep 2020, 12:44 pm

McNicholl is out for 8 weeks, but Halfpenny is back in training after completing the HIA process.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Oct 2020, 11:08 am

Forwards: Rhys Carre (Cardiff Blues, 8 Caps), Wyn Jones (Scarlets, 25 Caps), Nicky Smith (Ospreys, 35 Caps), Ken Owens (Scarlets, 77 Caps), Ryan Elias (Scarlets, 13 Caps), Sam Parry (Ospreys)*, Samson Lee (Scarlets, 41 Caps), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues, 26 Caps), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs, 48 Caps), Leon Brown (Dragons, 10 Caps), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, 138 Caps), Will Rowlands (Wasps, 1 Cap), Jake Ball (Scarlets, 46 Caps), Seb Davies (Cardiff Blues, 7 Caps), Cory Hill (Cardiff Blues, 25 Caps), Aaron Wainwright (Dragons, 21 Caps), Ross Moriarty (Dragons, 45 Caps), Taulupe Faletau (Bath, 76 Caps), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues, 24 Caps), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys, 76 Caps), Josh Macleod (Scarlets)*.

Backs: Rhys Webb (Ospreys, 33 Caps), Gareth Davies (Scarlets, 53 Caps), Kieran Hardy (Scarlets)*, Dan Biggar (Northampton, 83 Caps), Rhys Patchell (Scarlets, 19 Caps), Callum Sheedy (Bristol)*, Owen Watkin (Ospreys, 22 Caps), Nick Tompkins (Dragons, 4 Caps), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets, 81 Caps), Johnny Williams (Scarlets)*, George North (Ospreys, 95 Caps), Josh Adams (Cardiff Blues, 24 Caps), Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester)*, Jonah Holmes (Dragons, 3 Caps), Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets, 89 Caps), Ioan Lloyd (Bristol)*, Liam Williams (Scarlets, 63 Caps).

There you go chaps. Copied from walesonline so a chance it's not right. No Harry Randall as despite what they say hes not qualified to play!

Sheedy has been playing pretty well but dont think he'll trouble the match day squads. Excited to see Rees-Zammit at this level. He is going to be class. And hopefully we'll see the midfield england could have had at some point! Massively pleased for William's after what he went through.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 06 Oct 2020, 11:21 am

Elliot Dee can't really complain that he's lost his place in the squad. The Dragons' lineout was all over the shop against Leinster, and he had some very good players nipping at his heels.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 06 Oct 2020, 11:29 am

Sam Parry has been worth a shot for a while, form wise too.

Seems a pretty good squad on the whole, including a number of players in form. Be interesting to see what side he selects for Scotland. I assume he will go more or less first choice against France too, but can afford to experiment a bit more in that.


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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 06 Oct 2020, 12:09 pm

Agree that Parry has been in good form for a while, and I do think that Dee has regressed a bit. It's a good squad but a few selections are questionable to say the least. People like Dillon Lews, Seb Davies, and Owen Watkin who I don't believe has done anything of note in 2 years. The most shocking call is including Lewis over WillGriff John. Lloyd is a surprise.

I think Pivac is showing a little bias but McCleod and Hardy are in great form, no doubt about that.

Sheedy is a shock call. If he's in, he'll get capped now.

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