The Lions captaincy

First topic message reminder :

Lions tours are what they ere in long-gone halcyon days of yore.
Concurrent ones are over in the time took from embarkation to arrival on the outward journey.
But the skipper's perk seems unchanged - undroppable.
There isn't a position, let alone an experienced captain who could be confidently predicted to guarantee a match day selection.

I said this before when I was Portnoy, but I'll say it again - give the job to BOD because of his credentials as a player, a social smooocher, a media man and all-round-good-chap.

But don't repeat the mistake of 1983 when they chose FitzGerald and played him in preference to and despite the fact that Colin Deans was far superior on tour.

I don't think BoD did or said anything petulant. he seams to have gotten behind Heaslip as Captain.

Rodders nearly right, "Heaslip was stand in captain in BOD, O'Connells and Best's absence"

RuggerRadge2611 Best did get a yellow card, but that was for going in at the side, he recieved a team yellow card (for a seris of team infringements) and it wasn't his actions themselves that got him yellow carded. If every time someone went in at the side it was a yellow there would be a lot of bin time.

You can say his line outs were off a little, but maybe it was the jumpers, ERC said when he was put on longlist, "Quite simply one of the most complete hookers in rugby. Only two other hookers have delivered more successful lineout throws than Best (64) this season."

rodders wrote:BOD publically backed Heaslip a few weeks ago. Not sure what he said or didn't say in his interview, however the way he was stripped of the captaincy was a pretty shoddy by Kidney and in my opinion this was Kidney getting his own back on BOD publically criticizing Irelands tactics in NZ.

BOD has every right to feel aggrieved imo and has reacted with great professionalism and dignity to this. The fact that he was motm on Saturday shows how professional and committed he is.

I agree with what you say Rodders, but Heaslip hasn't done anything wrong and as I said I couldn't justify taking that honour away from him just beacuse BOD is back.

BOD was excellent against Wales, as I said one of the best players I have ever seen, but that doesn't automatically give him the captains Armband. Healip proved himself to be a capable captain in the Autumn and earned the captaincy in BOD's absence.

Anyway as I said I think the Lions captain will be Robshaw, as a result the Irish captaincy also has no bearing on this thread...


Also, Kingshu Best is the hooker in posession of the lions shirt at the moment, but I wouldn't burden the hooker with the captaincy as well as getting his linout working. Best will have enought to focus on without the distraction of the captaincy.

lads I'll leave this one as I have nothing else to add, would love to see BOD or Bestie get the nod but there are other strong candidates like Robshaw and Warburton.

Don't feel that strongly about it as long is the captain is playing well enough to justify the spot.

To be Honest while I have Best ahead of BoD and heaslip etc etc, there is still plenty of rugby to b played, lets have this discussion after the 6 nations when we have everything we need to make informed decisions.

I just like throwing Best i the mix, as I think everyone forgots about his potentional to be Captain.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

rodders wrote:Heaslip was stand in captain in BOD and O'Connells absence, the question was did he do enough to retain it against a guy who is Irelands greatest ever player and captain? Not in my opinion.

Heaslip had a decent game on Saturday but BOD,Best, Sexton and Donnacha Ryan were the leaders out there imo. Heaslip is not captaincy material imo and I suspect BOD knows this too.

Whether he knows of Heaslips weakness or not is irrelevant. He should be throwing his support behind his captain 100%. BOD was MOTM on Saturday and he deserved it, he was again outstanding. He and Conrad Smith are the best 13s of our generation.

But he did come down a notch or 2 in my estimations by his rather cool dismissal of Heaslip as captain for the 6N. It seemed juvenile and to be honest if I were Heaslip I would be a wee bit wee'd off that BOD was being such a rabble-rouser.

Heaslip is a good player and is a natural successor to Ireland's captiancy. BOD should be guiding guys like Heaslip and or Sexton instead of being petulant.

+1 (normally I despise the plus one response but as this concurs with an observation I made earlier, I'll excuse myself)

Kingshu wrote:To be Honest while I have Best ahead of BoD and heaslip etc etc, there is still plenty of rugby to b played, lets have this discussion after the 6 nations when we have everything we need to make informed decisions.

I just like throwing Best i the mix, as I think everyone forgots about his potentional to be Captain.

I haven't forgotten about him. I just wouldn't give him the captaincy, despite the certainty of him starting the test matches.

Like I said I would rather have him 100% focused on playing HIS game, rather than addtional burden of making some tough calls.

Give the captaincy to a Lock or a Backrower. The hooker has enough on his plate IMO.

despite the certainty of him starting

There we go again.
Counting chickens...

greytiger wrote:

despite the certainty of him starting

There we go again.
Counting chickens...

I reckon he has to grey, no other Hooker is even close at the moment. Not even close.

Sorry to repeat myself but it seemed more dramatic as I was typing it.

greytiger wrote:

despite the certainty of him starting

There we go again.
Counting chickens...

Are you calling Best a chicken?

RuggerRadge2611 just in responce, it seams that you don't like Hookers being captains, as they have enough to do, and you'd prefer a backrower to captain.

But Best took over as Ireland Captain in last years 6 nations (after PoC was injuried) and played fine.

Keith Wood was a great Captain for Ireland at hooker
John Smit of South Africa, captain of the World Cup-winning Springboks in 2007
Sean Fitzpatrick captained the All Blacks

All these Hookers were great Captains, I don't see an issue with Hooker Captaining the side.

Maybe it's you don't think Best can do both roles, but he has with ireland before, in big games, and we really don't know if others would deal with the pressure better.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

greytiger wrote:

despite the certainty of him starting

There we go again.
Counting chickens...

I reckon he has to grey, no other Hooker is even close at the moment. Not even close.

Sorry to repeat myself but it seemed more dramatic as I was typing it.

Peculiarly, the same position and Tour captaincy role as 1983.
In Australia the grounds will be hard. Who's to (hand on heart) say that ex-centre Youngs would not be a latter-day Deans and be sidelined by the tour skipper?

Kingshu wrote:RuggerRadge2611 just in responce, it seams that you don't like Hookers being captains, as they have enough to do, and you'd prefer a backrower to captain.

But Best took over as Ireland Captain in last years 6 nations (after PoC was injuried) and played fine.

Keith Wood was a great Captain for Ireland at hooker
John Smit of South Africa, captain of the World Cup-winning Springboks in 2007
Sean Fitzpatrick captained the All Blacks

All these Hookers were great Captains, I don't see an issue with Hooker Captaining the side.

Maybe it's you don't think Best can do both roles, but he has with ireland before, in big games, and we really don't know if others would deal with the pressure better.

perhaps you are right, there have been notable Hooker captains, Woody being one of my favourite players and a personal inspiration. For me though, Best I don't think would be as good a captain as Robshaw. perhaps if Best had been captain of Ireland I might have thunk differantly. As it stands I think Robshaw has the personality to gel the team and is who my choice would be.

That aside I would still rather est focuses on getting his game 100% right since we'll need his core skills much more than what he could bring as a leader.

I think that not only was Best the stand out player for Ireland on Saturday he was quite possibly the standout player of the weekend. His performance was ridiculously good. he was everywhere.

Other Stellar performances over the weekend:

Orquera. He played the perfect game, line breaks, two assists, no missed kicks, drop goals, brilliant decision making. I was shocked at how good he was.

Tipuric. Great 7. So useful to any team.

Owen Farrell. Dont think he missed any kicks.

greytiger wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

greytiger wrote:

despite the certainty of him starting

There we go again.
Counting chickens...

I reckon he has to grey, no other Hooker is even close at the moment. Not even close.

Sorry to repeat myself but it seemed more dramatic as I was typing it.

Peculiarly, the same position and Tour captaincy role as 1983.
In Australia the grounds will be hard. Who's to (hand on heart) say that ex-centre Youngs would not be a latter-day Deans and be sidelined by the tour skipper?

Youngs has done well recently and if his form continues I expect him to tour. He has a long way to go before convincing me he would be a better choice to start the test matches rather than Best though.

Didn't Best give away the first yellow card?

fa0019 wrote:Didn't Best give away the first yellow card?

Yes but please watch the footage and tell me if you really think it should have been a yellow card. If anything it should have been a penalty for Ireland. In not just saying that, it was a crazy decision. He entered the ruck from the back and won the ball on his feet.

GunsGerms wrote:

Other Stellar performances over the weekend:


Owen Farrell. Dont think he missed any kicks.

Again it is the show pony who get's the credit!

Farrell had an armchair ride from that phenomenal English pack. He barely had to break sweat and aside from his fantastic pass for Parling's try he had a solid if unspectacular performance.

All credit to the English Victory has to go to Cole, Robshaw, Wood and the rest of the pack who ran a riot on Saturday.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Other Stellar performances over the weekend:


Owen Farrell. Dont think he missed any kicks.

Again it is the show pony who get's the credit!

Farrell had an armchair ride from that phenomenal English pack. He barely had to break sweat and aside from his fantastic pass for Parling's try he had a solid if unspectacular performance.

All credit to the English Victory has to go to Cole, Robshaw, Wood and the rest of the pack who ran a riot on Saturday.

I guess if you could give the MOTM award to the pack i would have.

Farrells another guy who shouldn't be considered due to a rediculous hair cut.

What is going on with that quiff? I take it his auld boy doesn't take him back to Wigan much?

rodders wrote:Farrells another guy who shouldn't be considered due to a rediculous hair cut.

What is going on with that quiff? I take it his auld boy doesn't take him back to Wigan much?

I find his slanted kicking face very irritating too.

rodders wrote:Heaslip was stand in captain in BOD and O'Connells absence, the question was did he do enough to retain it against a guy who is Irelands greatest ever player and captain? Not in my opinion.

Heaslip had a decent game on Saturday but BOD,Best, Sexton and Donnacha Ryan were the leaders out there imo. Heaslip is not captaincy material imo and I suspect BOD knows this too.

Heaslip was a good choice to follow BOD as a) he is a Leinster player/friend of BOD and b) he seems to be laid back character and isn't intimidated by BOD and his continued presence in the team.

There would have been blue murder if BOD was replaced by a non-Leinster player.

Best played brilliantly against Wales and was everywhere off the ball as well. He's far and away the front runner for the Lions No.2 shirt but I just don't see him as Lions Captaincy material. He doesn't seem to have that aura you expect of a Lions Captain.

For me I think it has to be a forward and i'd be tempted to go with someone like Warburton (if he recovers some form), Robshaw or even Donnacha Ryan if he was to make the tour.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Kingshu wrote:RuggerRadge2611 just in responce, it seams that you don't like Hookers being captains, as they have enough to do, and you'd prefer a backrower to captain.

But Best took over as Ireland Captain in last years 6 nations (after PoC was injuried) and played fine.

Keith Wood was a great Captain for Ireland at hooker
John Smit of South Africa, captain of the World Cup-winning Springboks in 2007
Sean Fitzpatrick captained the All Blacks

All these Hookers were great Captains, I don't see an issue with Hooker Captaining the side.

Maybe it's you don't think Best can do both roles, but he has with ireland before, in big games, and we really don't know if others would deal with the pressure better.

perhaps you are right, there have been notable Hooker captains, Woody being one of my favourite players and a personal inspiration. For me though, Best I don't think would be as good a captain as Robshaw. perhaps if Best had been captain of Ireland I might have thunk differantly. As it stands I think Robshaw has the personality to gel the team and is who my choice would be.

That aside I would still rather est focuses on getting his game 100% right since we'll need his core skills much more than what he could bring as a leader.

Not having toured with the Lions will be a major factor as the management would need to know how the captain gets on with players that he only knows by playing against. Just supposing BOD does make the Lions, would he be intimidated by his presence on the pitch?

Robshaw has only a few international caps as well. Not really that experienced even touring with England.

BOD alone would have easily more than half of the entire England starting XV if the had the same team as last Saturday.

How much do caps count?

1 each.

Anyway, BOD's credentials for the job are unsurpassed.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Heaslip was stand in captain in BOD and O'Connells absence, the question was did he do enough to retain it against a guy who is Irelands greatest ever player and captain? Not in my opinion.

Heaslip had a decent game on Saturday but BOD,Best, Sexton and Donnacha Ryan were the leaders out there imo. Heaslip is not captaincy material imo and I suspect BOD knows this too.

Heaslip was a good choice to follow BOD as a) he is a Leinster player/friend of BOD and b) he seems to be laid back character and isn't intimidated by BOD and his continued presence in the team.

There would have been blue murder if BOD was replaced by a non-Leinster player.

Sin é wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Kingshu wrote:RuggerRadge2611 just in responce, it seams that you don't like Hookers being captains, as they have enough to do, and you'd prefer a backrower to captain.

But Best took over as Ireland Captain in last years 6 nations (after PoC was injuried) and played fine.

Keith Wood was a great Captain for Ireland at hooker
John Smit of South Africa, captain of the World Cup-winning Springboks in 2007
Sean Fitzpatrick captained the All Blacks

All these Hookers were great Captains, I don't see an issue with Hooker Captaining the side.

Maybe it's you don't think Best can do both roles, but he has with ireland before, in big games, and we really don't know if others would deal with the pressure better.

perhaps you are right, there have been notable Hooker captains, Woody being one of my favourite players and a personal inspiration. For me though, Best I don't think would be as good a captain as Robshaw. perhaps if Best had been captain of Ireland I might have thunk differantly. As it stands I think Robshaw has the personality to gel the team and is who my choice would be.

That aside I would still rather est focuses on getting his game 100% right since we'll need his core skills much more than what he could bring as a leader.

Not having toured with the Lions will be a major factor as the management would need to know how the captain gets on with players that he only knows by playing against. Just supposing BOD does make the Lions, would he be intimidated by his presence on the pitch?

Robshaw has only a few international caps as well. Not really that experienced even touring with England.

Robshaw and Warburton haven't toured either, put are still in the running

Best has Captained Ireland more times than Healsip has. (I think he would have been Ireland captain ahead of Heaslip if he was a year or two younger, but DK has 2015 in mind with Healsip. After all When BoD and PoC were out in the last 6 nations it was Best who became Captain, ahead of heaslip, and Healsip only got it in autum when BoD, PoC and best were injured otherwise I recon Best would have stayed captain)

as stated earlier Bests yellowcard at the weekend shouldn't be heald against him, it was just him punished for constast team infringement, (it was a yellow for going in at the side (even that was a tough call), any irish player could have got it.)

Chjw131 Donnacha Ryan a bit too out of no where, I think Best is an outside chance, Donnacha Ryan is still miles from outside chance.

If thats the case then Ieuen Evans should have been the captain in 97... he was the Welsh captain, 2 times traveller with the lions with 6 caps, a top performer and was a 1st choice player on the tour.

and Johnson... had captained England zero times, captained leicester a dozen times only and was a late call up for the last 3 games (inc. 2 tests mind) in 93.

I agree but it was Ryan's character I was alluding to. Whilst Best may have been Captain of Ireland for a while I still don't see him as having that Captain's presence. Nick Easter captained England for a while and was way out of his depth.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Heaslip was stand in captain in BOD and O'Connells absence, the question was did he do enough to retain it against a guy who is Irelands greatest ever player and captain? Not in my opinion.

Heaslip had a decent game on Saturday but BOD,Best, Sexton and Donnacha Ryan were the leaders out there imo. Heaslip is not captaincy material imo and I suspect BOD knows this too.

Heaslip was a good choice to follow BOD as a) he is a Leinster player/friend of BOD and b) he seems to be laid back character and isn't intimidated by BOD and his continued presence in the team.

There would have been blue murder if BOD was replaced by a non-Leinster player.

Sine, why do you always have to make such dull-witted comments? Dont think anyone would have complained if Rory Best was given the captaincy. All the Munster players are too young which only really left the follwing as candidates with enough experience:

Sexton
Best
Heaslip

Glas a du wrote:1 each.

Anyway, BOD's credentials for the job are unsurpassed.

That can't be denied.
But can (or should) he be guaranteed a test place for every match?

And so the argument goes circular...

greytiger wrote:

Glas a du wrote:1 each.

Anyway, BOD's credentials for the job are unsurpassed.

That can't be denied.
But can (or should) he be guaranteed a test place for every match?

And so the argument goes circular...

Yeah but there are very few players that are guarenteed a a test spot.

Robshaw, Warburton, Heaslip etc. none nailed on starters. By your logic then should it be given to Best?

Kingshu wrote:

Sin é wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Kingshu wrote:RuggerRadge2611 just in responce, it seams that you don't like Hookers being captains, as they have enough to do, and you'd prefer a backrower to captain.

But Best took over as Ireland Captain in last years 6 nations (after PoC was injuried) and played fine.

Keith Wood was a great Captain for Ireland at hooker
John Smit of South Africa, captain of the World Cup-winning Springboks in 2007
Sean Fitzpatrick captained the All Blacks

All these Hookers were great Captains, I don't see an issue with Hooker Captaining the side.

Maybe it's you don't think Best can do both roles, but he has with ireland before, in big games, and we really don't know if others would deal with the pressure better.

perhaps you are right, there have been notable Hooker captains, Woody being one of my favourite players and a personal inspiration. For me though, Best I don't think would be as good a captain as Robshaw. perhaps if Best had been captain of Ireland I might have thunk differantly. As it stands I think Robshaw has the personality to gel the team and is who my choice would be.

That aside I would still rather est focuses on getting his game 100% right since we'll need his core skills much more than what he could bring as a leader.

Not having toured with the Lions will be a major factor as the management would need to know how the captain gets on with players that he only knows by playing against. Just supposing BOD does make the Lions, would he be intimidated by his presence on the pitch?

Robshaw has only a few international caps as well. Not really that experienced even touring with England.

Robshaw and Warburton haven't toured either, put are still in the running

Are they though? Is that not all press speculation? I'd have Heaslip ahead of both of them because he has toured with the Lions in the past and there are no outstanding candidates yet. Warbs will be lucky to tour at this stage.

I think BOD (if he remains fit) is a shoo-in for the captaincy. Last tour there were only two candidates in the end - POC & BOD.

greytiger wrote:

Glas a du wrote:1 each.

Anyway, BOD's credentials for the job are unsurpassed.

That can't be denied.
But can (or should) he be guaranteed a test place for every match?

And so the argument goes circular...

No it doesn't. He's guaranteed his place because you trust him with the captaincy. When you name your captain you have to be pretty sure that it is only injury which will deny him his place, that he will not suffer a drop off in form, that he has the shoulders to carry the team. BOD is that man. Look at his playing record, he's proved it time after time.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Heaslip was stand in captain in BOD and O'Connells absence, the question was did he do enough to retain it against a guy who is Irelands greatest ever player and captain? Not in my opinion.

Heaslip had a decent game on Saturday but BOD,Best, Sexton and Donnacha Ryan were the leaders out there imo. Heaslip is not captaincy material imo and I suspect BOD knows this too.

Heaslip was a good choice to follow BOD as a) he is a Leinster player/friend of BOD and b) he seems to be laid back character and isn't intimidated by BOD and his continued presence in the team.

There would have been blue murder if BOD was replaced by a non-Leinster player.

Sine, why do you always have to make such dull-witted comments? Dont think anyone would have complained if Rory Best was given the captaincy. All the Munster players are too young which only really left the follwing as candidates with enough experience:

Sexton
Best
Heaslip

By choosing a Leinster player as captain stemmed the vitriolic response from some Leinster quarters (not all). Reggie & Shaggy had to contain themselves a bit in criticising BOD being dropped.

His last tour was disappointing. Good in defence sure but what did he do with the ball in hand... precious little and he was well taken care of by the boks.

please note also... his opposite man was Adi Jacobs in the first 2 tests.

and for reference... just ask Biltong on his opinion on Jacobs.

He made Roberts look good. Nobody else has managed this.

Glas a du wrote:

greytiger wrote:

Glas a du wrote:1 each.

Anyway, BOD's credentials for the job are unsurpassed.

That can't be denied.
But can (or should) he be guaranteed a test place for every match?

And so the argument goes circular...

No it doesn't. He's guaranteed his place because you trust him with the captaincy. When you name your captain you have to be pretty sure that it is only injury which will deny him his place, that he will not suffer a drop off in form, that he has the shoulders to carry the team. BOD is that man. Look at his playing record, he's proved it time after time.

But clearly the lesson of (I'll say it again) 1983 has no been learnt.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Heaslip was stand in captain in BOD and O'Connells absence, the question was did he do enough to retain it against a guy who is Irelands greatest ever player and captain? Not in my opinion.

Heaslip had a decent game on Saturday but BOD,Best, Sexton and Donnacha Ryan were the leaders out there imo. Heaslip is not captaincy material imo and I suspect BOD knows this too.

Heaslip was a good choice to follow BOD as a) he is a Leinster player/friend of BOD and b) he seems to be laid back character and isn't intimidated by BOD and his continued presence in the team.

There would have been blue murder if BOD was replaced by a non-Leinster player.

Sine, why do you always have to make such dull-witted comments? Dont think anyone would have complained if Rory Best was given the captaincy. All the Munster players are too young which only really left the follwing as candidates with enough experience:

Sexton
Best
Heaslip

By choosing a Leinster player as captain stemmed the vitriolic response from some Leinster quarters (not all). Reggie & Shaggy had to contain themselves a bit in criticising BOD being dropped.

Pardon my ignorance but who's Reggie?

fa0019 wrote:His last tour was disappointing. Good in defence sure but what did he do with the ball in hand... precious little and he was well taken care of by the boks.

please note also... his opposite man was Adi Jacobs in the first 2 tests.

He was outstanding. You obviously missed it.

Sin é wrote:

Sine, why do you always have to make such dull-witted comments? Dont think anyone would have complained if Rory Best was given the captaincy. All the Munster players are too young which only really left the follwing as candidates with enough experience:

Sexton
Best
Heaslip

By choosing a Leinster player as captain stemmed the vitriolic response from some Leinster quarters (not all). Reggie & Shaggy had to contain themselves a bit in criticising BOD being dropped.
[/quote]

You do talk some amount of shoite. Some of the reaction to BOD being relieved of his captaincy was daft but to suggest Heaslip was selected as captain simply to stem some blue tide of vitriol is completly idiotic.

greytiger wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Heaslip was stand in captain in BOD and O'Connells absence, the question was did he do enough to retain it against a guy who is Irelands greatest ever player and captain? Not in my opinion.

Heaslip had a decent game on Saturday but BOD,Best, Sexton and Donnacha Ryan were the leaders out there imo. Heaslip is not captaincy material imo and I suspect BOD knows this too.

Heaslip was a good choice to follow BOD as a) he is a Leinster player/friend of BOD and b) he seems to be laid back character and isn't intimidated by BOD and his continued presence in the team.

There would have been blue murder if BOD was replaced by a non-Leinster player.

Sine, why do you always have to make such dull-witted comments? Dont think anyone would have complained if Rory Best was given the captaincy. All the Munster players are too young which only really left the follwing as candidates with enough experience:

Sexton
Best
Heaslip

By choosing a Leinster player as captain stemmed the vitriolic response from some Leinster quarters (not all). Reggie & Shaggy had to contain themselves a bit in criticising BOD being dropped.

Pardon my ignorance but who's Reggie?

Reggie Corrigan, a fairly average prop that played for Leinster and Ireland.

greytiger wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Heaslip was stand in captain in BOD and O'Connells absence, the question was did he do enough to retain it against a guy who is Irelands greatest ever player and captain? Not in my opinion.

Heaslip had a decent game on Saturday but BOD,Best, Sexton and Donnacha Ryan were the leaders out there imo. Heaslip is not captaincy material imo and I suspect BOD knows this too.

Heaslip was a good choice to follow BOD as a) he is a Leinster player/friend of BOD and b) he seems to be laid back character and isn't intimidated by BOD and his continued presence in the team.

There would have been blue murder if BOD was replaced by a non-Leinster player.

Sine, why do you always have to make such dull-witted comments? Dont think anyone would have complained if Rory Best was given the captaincy. All the Munster players are too young which only really left the follwing as candidates with enough experience:

Sexton
Best
Heaslip

javascript:emoticonp('')
By choosing a Leinster player as captain stemmed the vitriolic response from some Leinster quarters (not all). Reggie & Shaggy had to contain themselves a bit in criticising BOD being dropped.

Pardon my ignorance but who's Reggie?

Reggie Corrigan (former Leinster & Ireland Prop) who does a bit of punditry now. He hates Munster so much that he gave a MOTM award to a Clermont player in a loss against Munster.

fa0019 wrote:His last tour was disappointing. Good in defence sure but what did he do with the ball in hand... precious little and he was well taken care of by the boks.

please note also... his opposite man was Adi Jacobs in the first 2 tests.

Well now you are just being rather silly. It's shame you see rugby in such a (one-eyed) simplistic fashion. Is the only marker of a centre's effectiveness what he does with ball in hand? No wonder you like players like Tuilagi. If he and Roberts paired up together I prescribe you about a dozen pairs of under pants to bring to games with you for every time you cream yourself at such displays or uninspired, one dimensional straight line running. Let's put it this way, Roberts has never looked as good at international level as when he played with BOD. That's because BOD offers much, much more than someone like Tuilagi at present. Wasn't it just this autumn when many English fans called for him to be dropped because of his lack of spacial awareness and distribution? My, my, how short the memory seems to be. For all these outstanding skills you and other say he possesses I have only seen them once and that was against New Zealand. Now, credit where credit is due he really was superb that day. The challenge is to back it up. And even if he does (which he probably will- I bet is is praying to be up against Keith 'turnstile defence' Earls) the dearth of quality centres will probably mean he will partner BOD for the Lions. And BOD will be captain.

On the Robshaw front, good player no doubt. As good as Tipuric? Nope. If Ireland had a competent coach and they picked Chris Henry, the outstanding 7 in the Heinkein Cup, then that would be another to the list. What if Warburton suddenly hits form? What about if places are tight and Gatland decides he needs SOB, someone who can play 6, 7 and 8?

Also, weren't many English fans on this board calling for him to be dropped as captain due to his lack of, you know, captaining nouse and skills in the autumn? And now he's a Lions captain. So long my friend, and thanks for all the fish.

BoD and Roberts has been called one of the best center partnerships theres been they were both good in SA.

As a complete left field suggestion... what about Dan Cole as Captain??

GunsGerms wrote:

Sine, why do you always have to make such dull-witted comments? Dont think anyone would have complained if Rory Best was given the captaincy. All the Munster players are too young which only really left the follwing as candidates with enough experience:

Sexton
Best
Heaslip

Sin é wrote:By choosing a Leinster player as captain stemmed the vitriolic response from some Leinster quarters (not all). Reggie & Shaggy had to contain themselves a bit in criticising BOD being dropped.

You do talk some amount of shoite. Some of the reaction to BOD being relieved of his captaincy was daft but to suggest Heaslip was selected as captain simply to stem some blue tide of vitriol is completly idiotic.

Sin must have a pretty poor opinion of Kidney if he thinks he's so weak and cowardly that he'd pick a captain who wasn't the best man for the job but would keep the level of criticism down.

pbuk0 wrote:As a complete left field suggestion... what about Dan Cole as Captain??

Hard to know. Dont think I have ever heard him speak. Does he talk?

GunsGerms wrote:

pbuk0 wrote:As a complete left field suggestion... what about Dan Cole as Captain??

Hard to know. Dont think I have ever heard him speak. Does he talk?

No but he could lead by example and he is worthy of a place in the team..