New PRGB Welsh rugby board 'stalls'

[pioden gorllewin]

THE Professional Regional Game Board is heading for the rocks – just two months after its establishment was heralded as “a landmark moment in the history of Welsh rugby”.

The Welsh Rugby Union and the four regions formed the PRGB in December to oversee the professional game.

It came in the wake of a report by PriceWaterhouseCoopers that recommended more collaboration between all parties in light of financial struggles.

But any hope of the new board providing swift solutions to rugby’s woes in Wales appear to have been dashed.

The Argus understands that the regions and the Union are unable to agree on an agenda – leaving the PRGB in danger of just slowly disappearing.

There was a list of eight general objectives when its formation was announced yet, predictably, there are now problems when it comes to the big issue of Union control and how much they pay for it.

With everyone coming at the problem from different directions and unable to find common ground, the PRGB appears to be doomed to failure.

At the December announcement WRU chief executive Roger Lewis said: “The formation of the new Professional Regional Game Board is a landmark moment in the history of Welsh rugby.

....“By working together, we will create a unity of purpose for Welsh professional rugby which will be underpinned by collective management, enhanced with greater central resources and structured to ensure effective decision-making.

“The PRGB will play a significant role in helping regional rugby make real progress, both on and off the field, in the years ahead.”

It has, however, failed to get off the ground and is under threat just ten weeks after it was heralded as a bright new dawn.

The Argus put the claims to the WRU who responded with the following statement: “The establishment of the Professional Regional Game Board was announced just nine weeks ago following discussions between the WRU and all four regional organisations. “Mr Justice Wyn Williams has been chosen to chair the PRGB.”

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/10226310.New_PRGB_Welsh_rugby_board_stalls_at_the_outset_as_bickering_continues/?ref=la

[Morgannwg]

I think the word 'predictably' sums it up. Another shambles, well done Welsh rugby.

[LordDowlais]

Why are we always the laughing stock.

[Kingshu]

It was always going to struggle at the start, WRU want more control, regions want more funding from WRU.

Hopefully this is resolved soon, and its a story about nothing.

WRU do need to increase the funding to the regions, to be honeest if they kept the funding the same as now, and introduced central contracts for 20-25 players, then I'd believe that they were supporting the regions to an adaquete level.

The Celtic countries teams need more support from thier Union than England or France, due to the differences in revenue generation, population size etc etc.

WRU and the regions have always sat somewhere between the Union supported model and the private team model, and because this line is blurred, it bit a bit of a mix of each, and each side blames the other.

WRU should be happy to increase funding if it is for central contracts. Hopefully.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I think the acronym is FFS.

If they can't even agree on which biscuits to have, what hope is there?

[LordDowlais]

This has gone on for long enough now. The trouble with Welsh rugby is, that there are too many big money men with big egos involved, the backers of the regions who have generously put money into the regions to massage their egos must find a common ground with the stubborn hierarchy within the WRU. Until they realise that in the long term they are going to have their empires falling down around them then we will keep having this mess, this is why the WRU probably do not want the Dragons to have a serious backer as it would just be another big money man to argue with. This has been the trouble in Welsh rugby for years, make a few million quid, buy a rugby team and walk around like a peacock, and think you are the be all and end all, then moan about the pounds you sink into the club when things do not go their way, lets not forget, the backers are having money off the WRU and they want more, so if they want the money they should either play ball or walk away.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

At the December announcement WRU chief executive Roger Lewis said: “By working together, we will create a unity of purpose for Welsh professional rugby which will be underpinned by collective management, enhanced with greater central resources and structured to ensure effective decision-making."

Is it wrong that I read 'collective management' to mean WRU control?

[Kingshu]

How much would it cost the WRU to buy out a region? Could they inforce a sale by threating the regions Pro 12 license?

Do the WRU own and run RGC1404?

Would it be in the WRU's intrest to buy the other 50% of the Dragons, and try to run them like the IRFU does a Province?

I'd love to know the WRU's long term thinking?

[Casartelli]

“By working together, we will create a unity of purpose for Welsh professional rugby which will be underpinned by collective management, enhanced with greater central resources and structured to ensure effective decision-making...."

Tossbag.

They can't even organise a fake meeting to keep the media quiet.

[Stone Motif]

This has gone on for long enough now. The trouble with Welsh rugby is, that there are too many big money men with big egos involved, the backers of the regions who have generously put money into the regions to massage their egos must find a common ground with the stubborn hierarchy within the WRU. Until they realise that in the long term they are going to have their empires falling down around them then we will keep having this mess, this is why the WRU probably do not want the Dragons to have a serious backer as it would just be another big money man to argue with. This has been the trouble in Welsh rugby for years, make a few million quid, buy a rugby team and walk around like a peacock, and think you are the be all and end all, then moan about the pounds you sink into the club when things do not go their way, lets not forget, the backers are having money off the WRU and they want more, so if they want the money they should either play ball or walk away.

How's the bank balance looking these days Rog, time to ffec off to Westminster or are you not quite done dismantling rugby in Wales?

[pioden gorllewin]

It was never going to be a marriage that was going to work hey!

Roger Lewis is pretty self centred guy and only wants to enhance his CV & future career prospects. There's also the small matter of his ego which he likes to have massaged regulary. Think his ego took a bit of a battering when Mr Justice Wyn Williams reeled him in over his "unhelpful" comments to the media over Christmas. Unfrortuantely what Roger Lewis does not understand is while he continues to neglect our regional game in Wales, it will only serve to wash out the foundations of his empire (eg Team Wales)

[Cardiff Dave]

Pinched this from Scarlet Fever.
It looks as though it's an extract from a newsletter from Paul Rees at the Guardian;

"Talking of Wales, no progress has been made by the professional regional game board, the body that was set up two months ago to find a way to make the four regions successful financially and on the field.

It has only met twice and no date has been set for a third. Meanwhile, Wales will not be represented in the quarter-finals of the Heineken Cup, the last eight of the Amlin Challenge Cup or the semi-finals of the LV=Cup.

So concerned are the regions about the lack of progress and clarity that they have asked to present their case to the full board of the Welsh Rugby Union. They want the opportunity to correct any misconceptions about where they are coming from and where they want to go.

An audience has been granted at the end of this month and it will give the regions the chance to widen the debate and take in the whole of the professional game.

The financial plight of the four regions is well known – they would probably all have folded and, certainly, none of the Wales squad would be home-based – but for the millions of pounds pumped in by benefactors.

But the Welsh Premiership is also haemorrhaging money. The clubs in it only receive £80,000 a year from central funds and their combined losses are more than £500,000.

The contention of the regions is that if Welsh rugby is to be successful in the long-term, there has to be clear progression from the grassroots upwards, not blocked paths. With clubs at all levels struggling and youngsters turning to football, where Cardiff City are on course to join Swansea City in the Premiership, there is no time to fiddle."

[ScarletSpiderman]

.......................With clubs at all levels struggling and youngsters turning to football, where Cardiff City are on course to join Swansea City in the Premiership, there is no time to fiddle."

Problem with gold old Roge is that he is so blind from fiddling with himself that he can't see he is shafting the nation.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

"So concerned are the regions about the lack of progress and clarity that they have asked to present their case to the full board of the Welsh Rugby Union. They want the opportunity to correct any misconceptions about where they are coming from and where they want to go."

Doesn't that speak volumes? Roger Lewis is supposed to be the head of the WRU yet the regions feel they have to go to the full board. The man is an obstacle.

[ScarletSpiderman]

"So concerned are the regions about the lack of progress and clarity that they have asked to present their case to the full board of the Welsh Rugby Union. They want the opportunity to correct any misconceptions about where they are coming from and where they want to go."

Doesn't that speak volumes? Roger Lewis is supposed to be the head of the WRU yet the regions feel they have to go to the full board. The man is an obstacle.

That is probably the most polite thing he has been called by a fan of regional rugby.

[2ndtimeround]

anyone know how a vote of no confidence works, effectively the WRU's bosses are the clubs, surely this means that Roger Lewis can be removed?

[Stone Motif]

anyone know how a vote of no confidence works, effectively the WRU's bosses are the clubs, surely this means that Roger Lewis can be removed?

The Gwent District clubs have already threatened Rog with this, hopefully that threat will materialise and not be swept away by the crack-papering that went on in Paris last week.

[Cardiff Dave]

Why are we always the laughing stock.

Great innit LD. Tis the Welsh way I suppose.
Another ingredient to add to the mix is the possible purchase and development of the Arms Park by the WRU. Will cost around £33m according to the walesonline article. So £50m+ by the time it's finished. All good stuff.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business-in-wales/business-news/2013/02/13/business-editor-sion-barry-reports-on-the-latest-in-plans-to-redevelop-cardiff-arms-park-91466-32797232/

[ScarletSpiderman]

Why are we always the laughing stock.

Great innit LD. Tis the Welsh way I suppose.
Another ingredient to add to the mix is the possible purchase and development of the Arms Park by the WRU. Will cost around £33m according to the walesonline article. So £50m+ by the time it's finished. All good stuff.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business-in-wales/business-news/2013/02/13/business-editor-sion-barry-reports-on-the-latest-in-plans-to-redevelop-cardiff-arms-park-91466-32797232/

That could be good news for the Dragons in a backside about face way. The WRU will want cash to buy and develope CAP, and there are rumours of moneymen wanting in on the Dragons, so it would make sense to seel the 50% of the Dragons (at a slightly inflated price) in order to part fund the CAP deal.

[Stone Motif]

Nice. Trust the WRU to start thinking about building an extension during a house fire.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Nice. Trust the WRU to start thinking about building an extension during a house fire.

Isn't that what the Dragons did with the Bissley stand?

[Casartelli]

SS (or anyone) - have you seen any official/reliable info on who sits on this PRGB?

[Stone Motif]

That could be good news for the Dragons in a backside about face way. The WRU will want cash to buy and develope CAP, and there are rumours of moneymen wanting in on the Dragons, so it would make sense to seel the 50% of the Dragons (at a slightly inflated price) in order to part fund the CAP deal.

A slightly inflated price? The nominal value of the WRU share is a whopping £1.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

SS (or anyone) - have you seen any official/reliable info on who sits on this PRGB?

All I know is that Roger Lewis has requested to be seated opposite a mirror.

[Stone Motif]

Nice. Trust the WRU to start thinking about building an extension during a house fire.

Isn't that what the Dragons did with the Bissley stand?

Not really as the ground is owned by RP ltd and they will own it whether the WRU fold the regions or not. Presumably if the Dragons go they will just chuck the money into County and try and make the site profitable via the gayball route.

[ScarletSpiderman]

SS (or anyone) - have you seen any official/reliable info on who sits on this PRGB?

Stolen from an old Wales online

The new nine-man board, comprising four members of the WRU, four members of the regions and an independent chair, have clear objectives to improve the position and strength of Welsh professional rugby, both on and off the field, supported with additional resource from the WRU.

Read more: Wales Online http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/12/05/professional-regional-game-board-brings-wru-and-regions-into-new-era-91466-32363391/#ixzz2Ky2efeJ0


I believe Andrew Hore is the Ospreys rep, as I remember him saying around Xmas how he couldn't comment about the possible cull/funding of regions, and would assume it is someone in a similar position at the other regions too.

[Casartelli]

That could be good news for the Dragons in a backside about face way. The WRU will want cash to buy and develope CAP, and there are rumours of moneymen wanting in on the Dragons, so it would make sense to seel the 50% of the Dragons (at a slightly inflated price) in order to part fund the CAP deal.

A slightly inflated price? The nominal value of the WRU share is a whopping £1.

Most companies shares have a nominal value of £1, Stone. Do you know who is actually on the PRGB?

[ScarletSpiderman]

Nice. Trust the WRU to start thinking about building an extension during a house fire.

Isn't that what the Dragons did with the Bissley stand?

Not really as the ground is owned by RP ltd and they will own it whether the WRU fold the regions or not. Presumably if the Dragons go they will just chuck the money into County and try and make the site profitable via the gayball route.

Ah fair enough that makes a bit of sense.

As for the nominal price being £1 per share, I am sure the WRU would find some way of making sure that they get a good value for their share (even if they have to claim to have 5,00,000 shares etc)

[Casartelli]

Thanks SS. Again though, nominal value is not the same as market value.

[Cardiff Dave]

Nice. Trust the WRU to start thinking about building an extension during a house fire.

No doubt this lot will be involved in the development process;

http://www.apdplc.com/

[Kingshu]

How come the WRU are thinking of purchasing the Arms park and doing it up?
Did they help Dragons with the new stand?

Surley if they are going to assist one team in this manner they have to be willing to assist them all the same.

Loan Cardiff X amount to but and refurbish CAP, they should be willing to loan Dragons the same to refurbish RP.

[Cardiff Dave]

How come the WRU are thinking of purchasing the Arms park and doing it up?
Did they help Dragons with the new stand?

Surley if they are going to assist one team in this manner they have to be willing to assist them all the same.

Loan Cardiff X amount to but and refurbish CAP, they should be willing to loan Dragons the same to refurbish RP.

????
Read the full article Kingshu. It'll give you a better idea.

[Stone Motif]

That could be good news for the Dragons in a backside about face way. The WRU will want cash to buy and develope CAP, and there are rumours of moneymen wanting in on the Dragons, so it would make sense to seel the 50% of the Dragons (at a slightly inflated price) in order to part fund the CAP deal.

A slightly inflated price? The nominal value of the WRU share is a whopping £1.

Most companies shares have a nominal value of £1, Stone. Do you know who is actually on the PRGB?

Pretty sure Hazell is our bod. He's certainly had a lot to say in the press recently, including leaking this story to the Argus by the looks.

[Stone Motif]

Thanks SS. Again though, nominal value is not the same as market value.

Except there can be no market value, as the WRU don't own it as such, it is held 'in trust' until the miraculous day one of the non-clart Gwent clubs decide to take it off their hands..

[nathan]

Well at least we're no longer getting threads from meas telling us all how well the WRU is doing.....

[Kingshu]

If the WRU purchased the CAP caould it lead to a names change for Cardiff Blues?

There are some saying Cardiff Blues as a region should drop the Cardiff, the same way as Neath-Swansea and Llanali were dropped, but it was said (don't know if true or not) that th eteam using CAP had to have Cardiff in thier name? If it is owned by the WRU they the rule about Cardiff being in the name would no longer apply, would they Cardiff Blues be looking to change?

just a bit more, if they did change what would it be to? as The Blues would be copyrighted by the NZ team. The bluebirds? (since they are in red now?)

[Cardiff Dave]

If the WRU purchased the CAP caould it lead to a names change for Cardiff Blues?

There are some saying Cardiff Blues as a region should drop the Cardiff, the same way as Neath-Swansea and Llanali were dropped, but it was said (don't know if true or not) that th eteam using CAP had to have Cardiff in thier name? If it is owned by the WRU they the rule about Cardiff being in the name would no longer apply, would they Cardiff Blues be looking to change?

just a bit more, if they did change what would it be to? as The Blues would be copyrighted by the NZ team. The bluebirds? (since they are in red now?)

I very much doubt it.

Aye the covenant supposedly states that Cardiff must be in the name not that it means much at all in my view. I'm sure they could call themselves what they wanted if it suited them.

So Auckland own the copyright on The Blues do they? Didn't realise that. Excellent.
Cardiff City are still known as the bluebirds and a little bluebird appears on their club badge under the big red dragon.

[Casartelli]

Well at least we're no longer getting threads from meas telling us all how well the WRU is doing.....

He's just biding his time. Rommel couldn't break the Double M's enthusiastic spirit, so these trivial committee meeting confusions are not even a bump in the road as far as he's concerned.

[Cardiff Dave]

Latest, Friday, February 15, 2013.
(still not much meat on the bones yet though);

"Welsh rugby regions hope to avert fresh crisis";

Read more: http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Welsh-rugby-regions-hope-avert-fresh-crisis/story-18155423-detail/story.html#ixzz2L0awqUTM
Follow us: @thisisswales on Twitter | thisissouthwales on Facebook

[George Carlin]

Are they ever going to release that PwC report in full and unredacted?

[ScarletSpiderman]

Are they ever going to release that PwC report in full and unredacted?

I think it must be protected by the official secets act.

[Casartelli]

Are they ever going to release that PwC report in full and unredacted?

Officially the WRU now deny all knowledge of its existence. Rumour has it that Roger had all copies burned and the ashes were scattered on the Taff. WRU employees are forbidden from mentioning it.

One laptop analyst mistakenly made reference to it on a blog and as punishment was given the choice of a. tongue removal with rusty dagger or b. being forced to watch Roger Lewis deliver a 20 minute powerpoint on Inspirational Management Techniques.

[Stone Motif]

Are they ever going to release that PwC report in full and unredacted?

Officially the WRU now deny all knowledge of its existence. Rumour has it that Roger had all copies burned and the ashes were scattered on the Taff. WRU employees are forbidden from mentioning it.

One laptop analyst mistakenly made reference to it on a blog and as punishment was given the choice of a. tongue removal with rusty dagger or b. being forced to watch Roger Lewis deliver a 20 minute powerpoint on Inspirational Management Techniques.

It's common knowledge Rog Beaumonts any ex-employees and sells their organs on the black market. All proceeds to Barclays Bank, plc of course.

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