I can only see Floyd's star declining in 2013

Don't get me wrong, Showtime is a great boxing channel. All round better coverage of the sport and their relationship with GB has seen some excellent match ups made already. Sadly though, I just don't see Floyd doing as well there. And it isn't because of Showtime; it is because of timing. Firstly, his May 4th card lacks a lot of substance. Him and Guerrero are not going to do anywhere near the Cotto PPV numbers and without Canelo on the undercard it will be even more so the case. Also, although a far better channel (for me) than HBO when it comes to boxing, Showtime may struggle to get the same sort of exposure for this card. Say what you want about 24/7 becoming a little stale, it is established, as is their Face Off series. Then there is the fact it looks like Floyd and Canelo won't be facing off in September. This is a huge mistake for Floyd IMO. If he doesn't fight Canelo, I really won't have much interest in seeing him coast out his career against any fighter who just beat Berto.

Timing is everything and sadly I feel that although Floyd has jumped to the right ship, he doesn't have the ambition to take the fights that will make it a successful/spectacular/memorable one. I mean it will always be successful, but Floyd vs Guerrero on Showtime with no big Latino prescence on the undercard and possibly no Broner, is not exactly eye popping.

Its May 4th basically Mexican day. Its Mayweather against one of their own in Guerrero so its a huge deal. After that should Floyd win he will not care who he gets to fight. He has signed the 6 fight deal and will look to cruise off to retirement.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Its May 4th basically Mexican day. Its Mayweather against one of their own in Guerrero so its a huge deal. After that should Floyd win he will not care who he gets to fight. He has signed the 6 fight deal and will look to cruise off to retirement.

I just don't see it being as big a viewing spectacle as usual. Not this time. Think of the Cotto card - had Alvarez on it and that probably contributed to a lot of buys. Also, Cotto is a huge draw in his own right. Guerrero is not considered a draw, becasue he really isn't, and he is not considered a threat to Floyd in this fight

This is a one off tho. Its Mexico's national day of celebration. If you are Mexican and fighting on PPV the whole of LA, Texas and Mexico will be supporting you.

Don't you have faith that showtime will demand that he picks fan credible opponents? They have spent a lot of money on Floyd I am sure they have it written in his contract the expectation of the network. Floyd does not sell record numbers on his own he records big numbers because people would love to see him get knocked out.

Can't see Floyd sticking to his six fight deal............

As for the decline...obviously being at the top for 13 years he's bound to be slower and the reflexes not as sharp..

Not rocket science is it..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Can't see Floyd sticking to his six fight deal............

As for the decline...obviously being at the top for 13 years he's bound to be slower and the reflexes not as sharp..

Not rocket science is it..

I am not really talking about his physical decline, Truss. More the decline of his star

I don't see it declining...He's the one name Boxing has..........

The Klits don't transcend............and who out of Boxing circles has heard of Marquez, Donaire or Martinez????

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I don't see it declining...He's the one name Boxing has..........

The Klits don't transcend............and who out of Boxing circles has heard of Marquez, Donaire or Martinez????

I see it declining. Less exposure, average fights and a non stellar undercard thus far. Let the PPV buys tell the story

I thought by Floyd's star you meant Justin Bieber.....

I reckon he'll get beat. This 6 fight deal reminds me a bit of Eubanks 12 fight stint with Sky.

seanmichaels wrote:I thought by Floyd's star you meant Justin Bieber.....

I reckon he'll get beat. This 6 fight deal reminds me a bit of Eubanks 12 fight stinit with Sky.

he won't have six fights left in him. 2/3 max. I could see Canelo v Trout winner beating him at 154 - that's why he will prob decline them

Like Collins got Eubank I think some average (ish) joe like Guerrero or Bradley will get a close or contentious nod over him.

Harrison Ford signed for 6 Jack Ryan movies.....Only did two or three......

Wouldn't place too much emphasis on the 6 fight deal..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Harrison Ford signed for 6 Jack Ryan movies.....Only did two or three......

Wouldn't place too much emphasis on the 6 fight deal..

HIs missus in those films is high class old school skirt. What's her name?

Seanusarrilius wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:I thought by Floyd's star you meant Justin Bieber.....

I reckon he'll get beat. This 6 fight deal reminds me a bit of Eubanks 12 fight stinit with Sky.

he won't have six fights left in him. 2/3 max. I could see Canelo v Trout winner beating him at 154 - that's why he will prob decline them

Sorry have to disagree with this.

Just how many wars has Floyd had in his career. The Cotto fight you could say he got stretched a little and thats the closest I have seen him in anything remotely resembling a war. I think he can cope with 6 fights its what level the opposition that counts.

Anne Archer...Her Son is head of the scientology religion.....and a t**t

I can see no way whatsoever that Flloyd will fight 6 more times, at his rate that would take 5 years and he ain't fighting for that long.

The only reason the Cotto fight was entertaining was because Floyd is slipping slightly.

I think he'll beat Guerrero but it will be close and I think this will worry Floyd. At this point i reckon he'll then fight 1-2 tops over an 18 month period and fight people with a name but zero risk.

I doubt that Showtime will be able to apply too much pressure in terms of guaranteeing that Floyd takes the riskiest fights out there, to be honest. I doubt Mayweather will have gone with them unless he has a hefty say in matters and has plenty of freedom - he's been very much his own boss in recent years and has been vocal on how much he loves it being that way. I appreciate that he's going to have to give a little to get a little but still, I expect he'll be very much in the driving seat and won't fret too much over what Showtime think of his opponents. As long as they're of a good, solid standard I don't anticipate them pulling him up on it.

Let's just say for a second that Floyd gets past Guerrero to retain his WBC Welterweight title and, on the same night (or April 20th as it now looks like being), Alvarez surprises a few people to completely destroy and outclass Trout to unify the WBC and WBA belts at 154 lb. Naturally, we'd all be screaming for a mega fight between Mayweather and Alvarez at Light-Middle in September.

However, in the meantime, let's pretend that Brook also gets past Alexander in a scrappy encounter to take a narrow decision and with it the IBF Welterweight title this summer. Let's then imagine that Floyd, rather than going up to face Alvarez, instead offers Brook a fight.

People would doubltess vent their frustrations, but Mayweather could easily respond by saying that Brook is in his own division and that he shouldn't automatically be expected to move up to eleven stone again, is a young, undefeated and hungry fighter and also point to the fact that it would be a unification fight in one of boxing's classic divisions. And how could Primetime really argue against that? Mayweather has shown in the past that he's not averse to shunning the biggest fight in favour of smaller but still justifiable ones.

Floyd certainly seems to have half an eye on retirement and I fear that, if he doesn't need to, then he won't fully extend himself and / or give us fans the absolute biggest and best fights possible. Many will argue that he doesn't owe us that in any case, of course.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:I thought by Floyd's star you meant Justin Bieber.....

I reckon he'll get beat. This 6 fight deal reminds me a bit of Eubanks 12 fight stinit with Sky.

he won't have six fights left in him. 2/3 max. I could see Canelo v Trout winner beating him at 154 - that's why he will prob decline them

Sorry have to disagree with this.

Just how many wars has Floyd had in his career. The Cotto fight you could say he got stretched a little and thats the closest I have seen him in anything remotely resembling a war. I think he can cope with 6 fights its what level the opposition that counts.

No way does a fighter who has fought about once a year for 4/5 years go on for 6 more fights at this age. Not unless he goes broke, which judging by his betting habbits he probably will. Isn't going to happen and there aren't even the fights there at the moment. He is fighting Guerrero in fight 1 for goodness sake! Who else is there if he is unwilling to fight Canelo or Trout? Martinez, Bradley, Broner in 3/4 years?
Nah

I reckon hes going to win 5 big name but easy fights then lose bravely to boner whose promotional rights he'll own.

ShahenshahG wrote:I reckon hes going to win 5 big name but easy fights then lose bravely to boner whose promotional rights he'll own.

Sounds about right. I just wish he would say what he means for once.

You lot need to appreciate the joy of O

Floyd wants to keep that more then anything. It is what defines him as p4p, PPV champ.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Can't see Floyd sticking to his six fight deal............

As for the decline...obviously being at the top for 13 years he's bound to be slower and the reflexes not as sharp..

Not rocket science is it..

I am not really talking about his physical decline, Truss. More the decline of his star

I say the decline of his 'star' happened in prison

I sort of agree with the article providing he avoids Canelo and most likely Pacquiao (will be a money spinner but still won't happen) or Martinez (just too big)

Floyd is the man, the money maker in the sport and is still has the star appeal, but his huge HBO numbers have been helped out by packing the card with Mexicans. Guerrero is Mexican-American, he isn't adored by the Mexicans and isn't as big a name as any of floyd's last few opponents like Cotto, Mosley, Marquez or even Ortiz.

On the Cotto card he had Alvarez-Mosley and Cotto Puerto Rican support, the Ortiz fight had Alvarez-Gomez, Morales-Cano (formerly Matthysse) and Vargas-Lopez and Mosley card had Alvarez on it again and Mosley was off the back of marg

Apart from Canelo, Pacquiao (don't care for it much anymore) or Martinez I don't really care about who he fights and defo wouldn't pay $70 like the yanks have to for every floyd fight

Showtime has about 40% less subscribers than HBO and only had 2 fights with over 1 million viewers (Cotto-Trout 1.4mil and Lopez-Canelo with 1.1mil) over 2012 whereas HBO had about 15 shows that got over 1 million viewers

Have showtime ever done PPV boxing?

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:I sort of agree with the article providing he avoids Canelo and most likely Pacquiao (will be a money spinner but still won't happen) or Martinez (just too big)

Floyd is the man, the money maker in the sport and is still has the star appeal, but his huge HBO numbers have been helped out by packing the card with Mexicans. Guerrero is Mexican-American, he isn't adored by the Mexicans and isn't as big a name as any of floyd's last few opponents like Cotto, Mosley, Marquez or even Ortiz.

On the Cotto card he had Alvarez-Mosley and Cotto Puerto Rican support, the Ortiz fight had Alvarez-Gomez, Morales-Cano (formerly Matthysse) and Vargas-Lopez and Mosley card had Alvarez on it again and Mosley was off the back of marg

Apart from Canelo, Pacquiao (don't care for it much anymore) or Martinez I don't really care about who he fights and defo wouldn't pay $70 like the yanks have to for every floyd fight

Showtime has about 40% less subscribers than HBO and only had 2 fights with over 1 million viewers (Cotto-Trout 1.4mil and Lopez-Canelo with 1.1mil) over 2012 whereas HBO had about 15 shows that got over 1 million viewers

Have showtime ever done PPV boxing?

They did Tyson, I think, toward his end. But I agree entirely with your concerns. Floyd has a poor card to support his average headline fight. Not a great start for Showtime

Remember Khans PPV deal with Sky...............PRESCOTT!!!!!!!!!

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Remember Khans PPV deal with Sky...............PRESCOTT!!!!!!!!!

Remember it well reborn....thanks for reminding me laugh out loud.

I had Prescott to win between rounds 1-3 and got 12/1 for it.

Before I gave up gambling I always swore I would never bet on Boxing because its the only sport I really love and didn't wanna ruin it by hating it by losing money on it.

But when Sky Sports News started showing clips of Prescott knocking people out, one after another. Me and half my local area threw the same bet on.

Had £15 on that too!!

Thank you Amir for having the chin of a paper bag

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:I had Prescott to win between rounds 1-3 and got 12/1 for it.

Before I gave up gambling I always swore I would never bet on Boxing because its the only sport I really love and didn't wanna ruin it by hating it by losing money on it.

But when Sky Sports News started showing clips of Prescott knocking people out, one after another. Me and half my local area threw the same bet on.

Had £15 on that too!!

Thank you Amir for having the chin of a paper bag

leave paperbag out of this. He does great sheep quizzes

awwww remember those days.

Why can't somebody carry on that good work.

Used to help me cruise through my days at work.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:
I sort of agree with the article providing he avoids Canelo and most likely Pacquiao (will be a money spinner but still won't happen) or Martinez (just too big)

Floyd is the man, the money maker in the sport and is still has the star appeal, but his huge HBO numbers have been helped out by packing the card with Mexicans. Guerrero is Mexican-American, he isn't adored by the Mexicans and isn't as big a name as any of floyd's last few opponents like Cotto, Mosley, Marquez or even Ortiz.

On the Cotto card he had Alvarez-Mosley and Cotto Puerto Rican support, the Ortiz fight had Alvarez-Gomez, Morales-Cano (formerly Matthysse) and Vargas-Lopez and Mosley card had Alvarez on it again and Mosley was off the back of marg

Apart from Canelo, Pacquiao (don't care for it much anymore) or Martinez I don't really care about who he fights and defo wouldn't pay $70 like the yanks have to for every floyd fight

Showtime has about 40% less subscribers than HBO and only had 2 fights with over 1 million viewers (Cotto-Trout 1.4mil and Lopez-Canelo with 1.1mil) over 2012 whereas HBO had about 15 shows that got over 1 million viewers

Have showtime ever done PPV boxing?







Wasn't the pacman Mosley fight on showtime ppv? I think hbo only ha 30million viewers where as showtime has more then treble that!

Possibly made this up but I'm pretty sure

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:I sort of agree with the article providing he avoids Canelo and most likely Pacquiao (will be a money spinner but still won't happen) or Martinez (just too big)

Floyd is the man, the money maker in the sport and is still has the star appeal, but his huge HBO numbers have been helped out by packing the card with Mexicans. Guerrero is Mexican-American, he isn't adored by the Mexicans and isn't as big a name as any of floyd's last few opponents like Cotto, Mosley, Marquez or even Ortiz.

On the Cotto card he had Alvarez-Mosley and Cotto Puerto Rican support, the Ortiz fight had Alvarez-Gomez, Morales-Cano (formerly Matthysse) and Vargas-Lopez and Mosley card had Alvarez on it again and Mosley was off the back of marg

Apart from Canelo, Pacquiao (don't care for it much anymore) or Martinez I don't really care about who he fights and defo wouldn't pay $70 like the yanks have to for every floyd fight

Showtime has about 40% less subscribers than HBO and only had 2 fights with over 1 million viewers (Cotto-Trout 1.4mil and Lopez-Canelo with 1.1mil) over 2012 whereas HBO had about 15 shows that got over 1 million viewers

Have showtime ever done PPV boxing?

Pacquiaou Mosley, it did 1.4 Million viewers, I wouldn't worry if I was Floyd, when there's a big name, it'll sell.

Also, HBO are a subscription channel extra in America, similar to Sky Sports,it's the reason they have no adverts, whereas I'm pretty sure Showtime are a normal Cable channel that most people get in America like an MTV etc.

Essentially as a boxer you're fighting fight by fight. That is motivation, you win you command money, you lose you command less.

Signing a 6 fight deal with a tv station with most of the cash up front is going to effect you're approach whether you want it to or not.

Mayweather should have put aside 18 months. Trained like Rocky each time and fought the fights the world wants to see. He would have earned far more from that and was more than capable of doing it. Unfortunately, he's happy with fighting very good fighters but not dangerous to him, where he's actually more likely to lose his 0 through complacency and a groundswell of hate against him.

I'm almost 100% sure that Showtime is a subscription-only channel much like HBO and I'm pretty sure that HBO has a larger subscription base of about 28mil (approx) subscribers to Showtimes 18mil (approx) subscribers although the gap was quite a bit bigger back in 2005 with HBO having 32mil (approx) to about Showtimes 15mil (approx)

Alex yea you're right about Manny-Mosley, it did well but if Pacquiao/Arum thought that it was better than HBO you would assume that they would stay on showtime instead they jumped to HBO immediately

If he beats Guerrero (which he should easily), not fighting one of Canelo/Trout, Martinez or Pacquiao afterwards will hurt his star status

Martinez is at too big for him to fight! He should fight canelo, pacquiao has lost his last 2 fights if floyd wins he gets zero credit which makes it a high ish risk low reward fight

I agree just as I said in my first post, but as far as his 'star' status, he needs one of Canelo, Pacquiao or Martinez to keep people interested

Bradley, Brook, Garcia, Khan, Alexnder, Ortiz II, Berto, Peterson...... Would any of those get him 1million plus PPV buyers at $70 a purchase.... I don't think so especially with Alvarez looking like he isn't going to be on the undercards anymore

I don't understand how boxing is making so much money though PPV's. There are so many websites which offer perfect link to watch the fight live for free that people don't need to spend the £15 or $50 to watch the fight.

Mainly because not everyone decides to scrounge and watch a low quality link, the picture is better than it was but it's still not brilliant.

victorgarco wrote:I don't understand how boxing is making so much money though PPV's. There are so many websites which offer perfect link to watch the fight live for free that people don't need to spend the £15 or $50 to watch the fight.

Something to do with the legality of streams.

Just a thought. Plus I'd rather watch a fight without the stream freezing.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Mainly because not everyone decides to scrounge and watch a low quality link, the picture is better than it was but it's still not brilliant.

To the point.

I get the feeling you're not a great fan of vic are you.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Mainly because not everyone decides to scrounge and watch a low quality link, the picture is better than it was but it's still not brilliant.

A lot of people state that Floyd sells a lot of PPV when Canelo is on the undercard because he is Mexican. Mexico is a country which unfortunately has a lot of poverty. It is not a matter of scrounging but a matter of not having the funds available.

It's not mexicans in Mexico who buy the fight, it's the mexicans living in America who do and if you have the funds to buy a computer and to pay for internet access you have no excuse for using an illegal stream.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It's not mexicans in Mexico who buy the fight, it's the mexicans living in America who do and if you have the funds to buy a computer and to pay for internet access you have no excuse for using an illegal stream.

lets be honest 1 PPV event costs the same as a months worth of internet.

Also it is not illegal (to my knowledge unless you have a piece of law to prove otherwise) to watch a stream. I can not be prosecuted because I watched a stream. I think the illegal activity is committed by the people who host the streams but even then they get around it by hosting the streams from countries where it is legal etc.

Just did a little search and only thing I found online was people giving their opinion without quoting law to back them up and this quote which indicates that at the moment streaming is not illegal.

'A law has been passed meaning illegal downloaders could be sent warning letters and even have their broadband cut off.

Ofcom says it's not yet clear how that applies to streaming, and that no letters will be sent out until 2014'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/19272653


But as I said if someone know the law and can quote the law that would be great. As broadband becomes faster and more powerful, streams will inevitably become better in quality. It's only a matter of time before streams are of the same quality as live TV and if it is not illegal to view the stream I don't see what will stop people viewing streams for free instead of paying to watch it on TV if the quality is the same.

You have limited knowledge then.

Showtime is subscription but is it not part of CBS or something which is free tv in the states! So if he goes on a couple of the free shows it will maybe boost up his numbers

azania wrote:You have limited knowledge then.

Ask him about advertising, he reckons that writing "these are beans" on a tin in a supermarket constitutes media manipulation and controls what we buy.

Person taste, hunger and financial constraints apparently play no part in our choices

Diamond in the rough wrote:Showtime is subscription but is it not part of CBS or something which is free tv in the states! So if he goes on a couple of the free shows it will maybe boost up his numbers

Haha, wishful thinking unfortunately as Floyd knows that he can hold a PPV card which will guarantee him more money then a cable channel

Having Mayweather boxing on CBS on free TV would be the kick that boxing needs and given that the (relatively) little known Leo Santa Cruz drew 1.5 million viewers agaisnt the unknown Guevara, you can only imagine how many more people would watch floyd for free when he already gets 1.5million people watching his fights for $70. However, you just can't see it at floyd's stage if his career when he's looking for the big $$$

That being said there was an interview with Richard Shafaer that they will try to get him on CBS

Before this debate continues on its inevitable path can people please remember the forums position on streaming which has been outlined previously in some depth.

cheers

Sorry Jeff, I don't know the forum's position. Could you type it out again please?

No Tina, will just ban you if you transgress. Is not particularly fair but life rarely is.