Burns and Warren Split

Just seen this on Boxrec:

"WBO lightweight champion Ricky Burns has become the latest high profile boxer to part company with Frank Warren, according to the Coatbridge fighter's manager Alex Morrison.

The news comes after the postponement on Monday of Burns' unification fight with IBF title holder Miguel Vazquez.

Originally scheduled for March 16, the fight was put back five weeks to April 20 after Mexican Vasquez was ruled out with a viral infection. Speculation over whether the fight would take place has been ongoing.

According to the Scotsman, Morrison has questioned the extent of Vazquez’s illness after claiming that footage on YouTube shows the 26-year-old sparring when he was supposed to be laid up in bed.

Jim Black of the Scotsman quotes Morrison:

“I regret it has come to this because I have known Frank for nearly 40 years, but it has to be for Ricky’s sake. I felt we had to do something to stop Ricky stagnating.

"Two fights have been called off after he has trained hard for them and it was not even certain that the bout with Vazquez would have gone ahead on 20 April.

"In fact, I now doubt very much that fight was ever going to happen.”

Source: Boxrec

Where does Warren go now? I can see Burns joining Matchroom.

When I saw that his fight had been postponed yet again, I thought Burns may take the opportunity to jump ship and certainly when Groves has done the same only a week beforehand.

Warren's had bad runs of luck like this before but still come out smiling. He lost Hatton and Calzaghe etc but like cockroaches after nuclear holocaust, he's still skittering around.

You don't survive in the game as long as Warren without knowing how to battle adversity and, sadly, I think Warren will still come out smelling of roses despite the emergence of Matchroom as serious contenders for his promotor's crown.

All it takes is for Brook and Froch to lose and Warren will be whispering in the ear of fledgling fighters that Matchroom simply don't know what they're doing and would be wise to go with someone like him instead.

Wonder if Burns will get a decent fight anytime soon though. If Burns goes with Hennessey or Maloney, look for Burns to be fight Gavin Rees.

I can see Matchroom snapping Burns up as there's the potential to make some big fights, plus they've already got a relationship with Broners guys so hopefully that fight would be easier to make.

Not surprised by the split, Rickys manager was fuming at this latest delay, especially when he saw footage of Vasquez sparring when he was supposedly ill.

hampo171 wrote:I can see Matchroom snapping Burns up as there's the potential to make some big fights, plus they've already got a relationship with Broners guys so hopefully that fight would be easier to make.

Not surprised by the split, Rickys manager was fuming at this latest delay, especially when he saw footage of Vasquez sparring when he was supposedly ill.

The fact it should be an easy night's work for Broner will have no bearing on this I suppose?

Why would it? Would it surprise you if Warren wasn't asking for huge amounts of money for that fight and that's what stopped it happening? All the stories where about Ricky wanting more money, I think they got the names wrong personally.

Wow, people say that you should never count warren out and he always finds a way to get back in the frame but this may be it. I thought his stable was looking a little thin 12 months ago, now, no groves, Burns, Bellew, Brook etc

Looking at his stable he has Clev (not a big name), Billy Joe Saunders (a prospect) and Chisora (a mad man who may never box again).

Matchroom have pulled off a huge coup these last 2 weeks and Hearns must be licking his lips in satisfaction. He now has all of the top British fighters expect Fury, Degale and the other warren fighters I mentioned. Hopefully it will either allow Hearn to pack the cards stronger or force sky to realise that they can have more shows

hampo171 wrote:Why would it? Would it surprise you if Warren wasn't asking for huge amounts of money for that fight and that's what stopped it happening? All the stories where about Ricky wanting more money, I think they got the names wrong personally.

This is what happens when you get Warren telling fighters like Burns that they are superstars. They start believing it and demanding superstar wages. Burns is a decent enough fighter and a nice enough guy but sadly, he needs a bit of a reality check when it comes to assessing his actual worth.
I'm sure Burns knows that a fight with Broner will be the end of his title reign and wants to makes as much money as he can but the smart thing to do is take a slightly smaller purse for fights you can definitely win but still get a decent wedge as Champion. Once he loses to Broner he goes back to small hall fights at small hall prices.

If Burns has left then Warren is finished.

http://www.boxingscene.com/ricky-burns-leaves-frank-warren-vazquez-fight-off--63100

Prepare for Nathan to leave next.

Cleverley won't leave Warren and run the risk of having to fight someone with a pulse

As others have said, Warren's hung on in tough times before and you can never totally write off a man who has been at or near the top of his profession for as long as he has. But I will say this - I'm not sure that his situation has ever been quite as precarious as this before, and even he is going to have to go some to get back on equal terms with Hearn and even Hennessey.

He lost Khan, but not to a British rival promoter. He lost Calzaghe, but did so after already guiding him to all of his significant fights and right at the tail end of Joe's career in any case. In any case, back when those things happened (2008 / 2009), Hearn hadn't really planted his flag yet, Hennessey was seen mildly as a joke figure for his inability to get Froch a decent TV deal and Maloney was nowhere to be seen. They were minor setbacks - whereas the past eighteen months have largely been a disaster from his point of view. No absolutely huge blows (although in context, Burns' departure becomes one I think) but a long series of hard ones; Brook, Bellew, DeGale, Groves etc.

I can't see Warren ever being completely off the radar and he'll always have some reasonable fighters under his wing, but I do think he's probably become yesterday's man adn whatever he does from now on will likely be low-key in relation to the grip he had a decade or so ago. Similar to Don King in the past few years, if you will.

Told you......I imagine he couldn't guarantee the purses for the Vazquez fight or he was unwilling to risk one of his last remaining stars in such a 50/50 fight.....

No way back with SKY with Hearn in control......

It's all over..............

I dunno I got a feeling that hes had something up his sleeve for a while now. What happens if he gets signed up to work for goldenboy uk? polus his own tv channel which they can afford to lower the price or offer it as a non subscription channel on sky and use it to build ppv events. I reckon hes going to come out smelling of roses and Hearn is going to overreach himself.

Does Warren look the type to take orders??

Am not convinced Shah, as others have said you’d have to be a fool to completely write him off but a promoter is largely defined by the strength and depth of his stable and he simply does not have it any more. Chisora is not particularly great, is a complete loose cannon and still does not have a licence. Cleverly cannot buy good press at the minute and is probably a step below being good enough to challenge the top dogs and Gavin and Saunders have been blighted by a lack of focus and injuries.

The other problem he has is for as long as he is stuck away on boxnation growing a fanbase/exposure for any young fighters he has is always going to be extremely difficult because they will not be seen outside of that channels subscribers. Personally think the best thing he could do is admit the boxnation experiment has not worked and go cap in hand around whichever broadcaster will take him.

Wont be taking orders I think, probably a partnership with Schaefer rather than whoever shares his business - he'll have less say in it but it will be an equal partnership just in case it goes belly up and goldenboy can mitigate their losses.

Rowley wrote:Am not convinced Shah, as others have said you’d have to be a fool to completely write him off but a promoter is largely defined by the strength and depth of his stable and he simply does not have it any more. Chisora is not particularly great, is a complete loose cannon and still does not have a licence. Cleverly cannot buy good press at the minute and is probably a step below being good enough to challenge the top dogs and Gavin and Saunders have been blighted by a lack of focus and injuries.

The other problem he has is for as long as he is stuck away on boxnation growing a fanbase/exposure for any young fighters he has is always going to be extremely difficult because they will not be seen outside of that channels subscribers. Personally think the best thing he could do is admit the boxnation experiment has not worked and go cap in hand around whichever broadcaster will take him.

More likely yes but Frank has managed to cultivate some excellent ties with GB - I think they are the only bridge he hasn't burnt.

Why would DelaHoya offer Warren a way to get himself back up???

Never murder a man committing suicide....

He's losing fighters left, right and centre why not go after his fighters and keep full control!!

Burns is less of a loss than brook, degale or groves in the long run. they have been milking those belts with good match making but hes hardly a super star in the making. the fact that burns is the latest in a long line of british fighters to leave warren really is bad news though.

maybe warren can still make enough from tv subscriptions for hosting overseas events? ever see some of the international tennis events where the arenas are empty but the players are still pocketing huge sums from tv deals? warren can always put some of his less known fighters up for wbo belts too, thats how burns and cleverly got their exposure

True Shah but you do think if Goldenboy are going to make a genuine go of things over here they will not want to be stuck away on boxnation. They come from a culture where PPV’s are the lifeblood and you have to think they will want similar over here, which long term means Sky.

My own view is they are using Warren as a means to an end at the minute but as soon as Agogo gets established they will want him on Sky along with Khan, if I was Frank I would be more worried they will use their overseas fights as a sweetner for them taking their UK stable as and when it grows.

Warren and Matchroom are the only big players in town really and considering Hearn has said during the week that he does not want his stable to grow too big I think there is still room in the market for more than Matchroom.

As is being seen with Warren and Maloney putting on boxing cards these days is precarious from a financial viewpoint. With money being tight there might be a gap in the market for smaller promoters such as Hatton to draw fans back to grass roots boxing.

Clev next.

Aren't Goldenboy quite friendly with matchroom?

GBP are friendly with anyone (other than Arum) who can make them money.

thought warren had done a good job with Burns.

he's won a couple of belts, had a couple of big nights against mitchell and katsidis.

You don't know how much he is being paid though............

Running Boxnation and owning the fighters who are on it is a conflict of interest..

Can't imagine that Warren had ever had a week this bad in his whole career.

Guess we need to see what Warren has to say for himself...

He was giving it the large one on Bunce's show on Monday, suspect this will be hard to take.

I think you can only commend Burns here, he quite clearly doesn't want to be yet another plastic WBO champion and genuinely seems to want to challenge himself against the best something he doesn't think he can do under Warren.

Dear dear dear

Another un loyal fighter dumping the hand that feeds them. Warren is being destroyed by Matchroom. They have tapped up both Groves and Burns.

Clev has little ambition, IMO. Wouldn't be surprised if he stays with Warren.

What loyalty do either of them have to Warren when he's not making the fights either want resulting in them not getting paid?

Very true Ghosty, Burns has already said training camps and sparring has already left him twelve grand out of pocket. Loyalty is admirable enough but when it stops you paying the mortgage or putting food on the table it will only last for so long.

Rowley wrote:Very true Ghosty, Burns has already said training camps and sparring has already left him twelve grand out of pocket. Loyalty is admirable enough but when it stops you paying the mortgage or putting food on the table it will only last for so long.

Couldn't agree more. Boxers cannot afford to have these things continuously happen to them. Burns has 3/4 years to make the sort of money he needs to take care fo his family for the rest of his life. Losing 12 grand in a short space of time with no guarentee of a fight on the horizon is not good enough. Especially when he can join Matchroom and be guarenteed great exposure and, I imagine, a fine pay day for a unification. Life changing money, as Hearn is fond of calling it.

I have spent GRANDS supporting QPR.

I am not about to jump ship because we never win anything.

Patience is a virtue.

That's not your job though is it ONETWO, if my boss cut my hours so I was no longer able to live how I like I too would move on.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:I have spent GRANDS supporting QPR.

I am not about to jump ship because we never win anything.

Patience is a virtue.

Supporting a football team and getting punched in the face for a living are two different things. I support Arsenal, seen our best players sold. I will still support arsenal regardless. If I was getting punched in the face for a living and I'm still losing money, I will go where I can make a living.

another thing, burns is poised to become (one of) scotlands greatest boxers, and stalling at this stage of his career, where the defining fights are starting to come in very unfair to burns.

azania wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:I have spent GRANDS supporting QPR.

I am not about to jump ship because we never win anything.

Patience is a virtue.

Supporting a football team and getting punched in the face for a living are two different things. I support Arsenal, seen our best players sold. I will still support arsenal regardless. If I was getting punched in the face for a living and I'm still losing money, I will go where I can make a living.

Thanks Azania! I was simply going to tell ONETWO that his argument was beyond idiotic, but your rebuttal is far more reasonable.

azania wrote: I support Arsenal,

Explains a lot.

Rowley wrote:

azania wrote: I support Arsenal,

Explains a lot.

Looks like Burns is signing with Matchroom. Both parties must be pretty certain Warren is in breach of contract.

http://sport.stv.tv/boxing/217097-ricky-burns-to-join-eddie-hearns-matchroom-sport-for-next-title-defence/