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GBP's 140 Tournament. Winner of Tournament gets Khan...wait what?

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Who wins the Tournament?

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Post by themadworldofjb Mon 11 Mar 2013, 1:59 pm

According to Boxing Scene, Richard Schaefer is planning a major tournament at 140lbs. This tournament will include Danny Garcia facing Zab Judah in the first fight with the WBC/WBA belts on the line. Then Lamont Peterson will face Lucas Matthysse in the second semi as it were with Peterson's IBF belt on the line. The winners of those two fights will then face off against each other to establish an undisputed champion with the WBC/WBA/IBF belts.

Sounds good doesn't it? Well this is where it gets silly. Good for British boxing, but silly.

The winner of the tournament will then be forced to defend against Khan. So essentially, accoirding to Schaefer, Khan is the end goal here. The target for the other four names shall we say......

I will finish typing here and leave it up to you guys to debate.

Link: http://www.boxingscene.com/schaefer-outlines-140-tourney-plan-ending-with-khan--63222


Last edited by themadworldofjb on Mon 11 Mar 2013, 2:31 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Adding a poll)
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Post by John Bloody Wayne Mon 11 Mar 2013, 2:04 pm

At least it makes the best fight the best. Garcia/Peterson v Khan are natural rematches. Mathysse would certainly feel confident of getting a name on his record/making some dollar.

The only one that wouldn't make sense is Judah v Khan but he's unlikely to get the prize. I can imagine him upsetting Danny, but Mathysse has the perfect attributes to sap his will and steam roll over him.

Still, odd that the end prize will likely earn the winner less props than the tournament itself...

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Post by John Bloody Wayne Mon 11 Mar 2013, 2:05 pm

Would anybody apart from Ghosty and Alex bet against Lucas taking this one, by the way?

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Post by KingMonkey Mon 11 Mar 2013, 2:07 pm

I'm all for tournaments like this although they rarely go to plan what with drop outs, injuries etc. That said, this is fairly short in duration.

I expect it'll mean Khan in another easy fight after his next one but what they heck. Best vs the best. More please.

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Post by owen10ozzy Mon 11 Mar 2013, 2:21 pm

Strange one really. As others have alluded to though..whilst the end reward may be perplexing if it goes ahead it will result in 3 big fights at 140 and a Unified Champion so in that sense I don't think we as fans can be to critical.

With regards to Khan being the reward for the winner I can actually see why this would be the case.

I actually don't think GBP are to hot on Khan at this moment in time but still realise that out of the 4 names lined up for this mini-series he is still probably the bigger draw.

The problem is putting him into the tournament wouldn't really be feasible in the sense that he dismissed Judah with relative ease..so who wants to see that again? He was wiped out in 4 by Garcia, on the back of 1 win over Molina does he deserve a rematch, I would say no. Then of course their is Peterson...yes the first fight is full of controversy and Khan certainly deserves the rematch...but ahead of Matthysse I would argue no.

Of course the other thing to remember here is that the 2 fights mentioned as part of the tournament are already due to go ahead anyway so it is more a case of the 2 winners facing off for the right to fight Khan...

As far as GBP are concerned they will be hoping that Garcia beats Judah and recently signed Peterson beats Matthysse...thus meaning whoever wins the unification fight will essentially be rematching Khan which as a fight then sells itself.

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Post by Lance Mon 11 Mar 2013, 2:24 pm

peterson against garcia should be interesting. i expect those to be the two winners. peterson can win rounds but he can often get hurt early. if garcia hurts him i expect it could be over

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Post by azania Mon 11 Mar 2013, 2:28 pm

The new and improved and stronger Peterson will beat Lucas. Much depends on how heavy Lucas is come fight night.

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Post by themadworldofjb Mon 11 Mar 2013, 2:31 pm

Ok, just added a poll. Included Khan in cause he could realistically win this thing
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Post by Lance Mon 11 Mar 2013, 2:37 pm

is this a tournement or just schaefer being open about his likely match making over the next few months??

of course khan is line to fight these guys, hes better ranked than judah and a former champion. he just has to get in line a little bit for his shot at one of the GB champions. reality check in need

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Post by azania Mon 11 Mar 2013, 2:47 pm

Khan brings in the most money. All roads lead to him.

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Post by rob-glos Mon 11 Mar 2013, 3:26 pm

I reckon there are 2 reasons GBP would stick Khan at the end...

Firstly, as already said... He is the money name at 140 rightly or wrongly.
Secondly, it gives him the opportunity to rebuild and get some more time working with Virgil Hunter.

Given that if (GIGANTIC IF) they pull this off it would likely be about 12-18 months before the 'final' it allows Khan to probably get 3 more fights in and maybe pick up another bauble...

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Post by themadworldofjb Mon 11 Mar 2013, 3:29 pm

rob-glos wrote:I reckon there are 2 reasons GBP would stick Khan at the end...

Firstly, as already said... He is the money name at 140 rightly or wrongly.
Secondly, it gives him the opportunity to rebuild and get some more time working with Virgil Hunter.

Given that if (GIGANTIC IF) they pull this off it would likely be about 12-18 months before the 'final' it allows Khan to probably get 3 more fights in and maybe pick up another bauble...

Marquez vacated the WBO belt apprently, so Khan could end fighting for that, hopefully win it, and then face the undisputed champ in a fight for all the belts
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Mon 11 Mar 2013, 7:17 pm

I think Garcia is going to shock everyone and win the whole thing, he and Khan would both start as favourites over Matthyse, as long as they box smart they win, big IF in Khans case though.

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Post by manos de piedra Mon 11 Mar 2013, 7:21 pm

Id make Khan small favourite purely because he only has to win the one fight and if it happens to be Peterson or Judah then hes well capable of winning. Would be a fantastic tournament if it happens though.

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Post by Gerry SA Mon 11 Mar 2013, 10:54 pm

themadworldofjb wrote:
rob-glos wrote:I reckon there are 2 reasons GBP would stick Khan at the end...

Firstly, as already said... He is the money name at 140 rightly or wrongly.
Secondly, it gives him the opportunity to rebuild and get some more time working with Virgil Hunter.

Given that if (GIGANTIC IF) they pull this off it would likely be about 12-18 months before the 'final' it allows Khan to probably get 3 more fights in and maybe pick up another bauble...

Marquez vacated the WBO belt apprently, so Khan could end fighting for that, hopefully win it, and then face the undisputed champ in a fight for all the belts
Khan's getting no way near the WBO junior welterweight title.

The Rios-Alvarado rematch is for the WBO interim strap, now that JMM has vacated, the full title will be on the line in that fight.

Khan's more than welcome to have his jaw broken by Bam Bam sometime in September...

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Post by azania Mon 11 Mar 2013, 11:29 pm

Khan schools Rios and Alvarado even if they tag team him.

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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Mon 11 Mar 2013, 11:36 pm

Khan isn't exactly some master boxer, Maidana, Garcia and Peterson haven't exactly found him difficult to tag and they don't exactly possess the most finesse. Even Molina manged to land flush a couple times and Khan legs stiffened once or twice

Hunter is a good trainer but Khan isn't close to Ward in terms of boxing ability and ring IQ and while Ward was a success Hunter hasn't been able to make huge impressions on Angulo (pushed all the way recently by a WW journeyman) and Dallas Jr (knocke doubt in a round by Matthysse) so far

Khan is a decent draw, but he doesn't draw huge numbers and his star status has taken a huge dent recently. Why doenst the winner fight Broner. By that time he should be a welterweight champ, might go back to 135 or 140 to win a belt and will be a much bigger name than Khan (already is) and a GB fighter so it won't be hat dto make (unless Al Haymon gets in the way)

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Post by ShahenshahG Mon 11 Mar 2013, 11:57 pm

ITs the uk theme, If Khan manages to come out on top of this very strong LWW division they are hoping he could be the start of something big for them. Star power attracts more talent towards them. I was hoping gbp could bring over some of their trainers to boost the skills in the uk and Europe. Eastern Europe is crying out for talented trainers who can make their fighters a little more fluid and versatile. It seems though that they are treading a little more cautiously than Schaefer's language indicated when they announced it. Truth is apart from Carl and Audley there is nobody else with enough pulling power and Haye doesn't fight often enough though since he's willing to work with frank it miht be that he ets added down the line. A few stacked cards might go a long way. Khan, Chisora and Clev could pull Frank back from the brink and provide a suitable Launchpad for GBP.

I wish they went about it a little more quickly though and gae some indication as to what direction they are going to take.

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Post by Gerry SA Tue 12 Mar 2013, 12:01 am

azania wrote:Khan schools Rios and Alvarado even if they tag team him.
You keep thinking that...

One shot from Bam Bam and Khan's out cold

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Post by azania Tue 12 Mar 2013, 8:26 am

The thing is, bam bam isn't that good.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:07 am

Nor are Prescott, Garcia or Peterson though Az which is the point, he has the ability to outbox Rios but there's also a chance he gets blasted out.

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 12 Mar 2013, 10:21 am

With gifts like this, do you think Khan ever regrets leaving Warren for Golden Boy!? Laugh

Seriously though, it'd be fantastic if this mini tournament comes to fruition and with the two 'semi finals' already set up there's no reason why we can't get a unified, undisputed champion here. Personally, I'd rule out Judah (sorry Zab, believed in you one too many times before and I'm all out of faith now!) and Peterson, who I just don't think is of the highest level. Shut out by Bradley, lucky to get a draw with Ortiz and his 'win' over Khan has more of a foul stench to it than Nottingham's Victoria Centre fish market.

Garcia, Matthysse and Khan have that bit more for me and though he's not part of the 'tournament' so to speak, Khan will fancy his chances of emerging from it all as the top man as he only has one fight to win to potentially do so, and who knows, if a Garcia-Matthysse fight takes place it could well be a war which might even take something out of the winner before they fight Khan.

I'm sticking with Matthysse to win it for now - going with Khan requires a little bit too much of a leap of faith for me because, so far, he's been tagged and tagged heavily against every puncher he's faced and even when he's won been in dire straits at times. Maybe he'll iron this flaw out under Hunter but personally I need to see it before I believe it.

Either way, it'll be a great thing for boxing if it comes off and there should be some superb fights for us all to feast our eyes on. Hats off to Golden Boy if they can get this done.
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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue 12 Mar 2013, 3:43 pm

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Would anybody apart from Ghosty and Alex bet against Lucas taking this one, by the way?

Haha, I'd make him favourite, but think that Garcia, Khan etc. have a good chance against him if they get there gameplans right.

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Post by John Bloody Wayne Tue 12 Mar 2013, 4:10 pm

Laugh In that case he's gonna walk this thing.

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Post by JabMachineMK2 Tue 12 Mar 2013, 4:18 pm

Khan is done in my eyes. He didn't deal with Peterson and although there are questions can be raised, a world class boxer makes Peterson look ordinary. I don't like Bradley - infact I think he's garbage compared to other 140lb greats but fact is he made Peterson look worse. Khan didn't, that was a tough fight.

Then you've got Garcia, who for all intents and purposes isn't as good as Khan in terms of boxing, but what he does have is a good chin and a good punch. Khan got flattened. He peaked around the time he fought Judah/Maidana and lets face it, he nearly went out then. I just don't see it any more. I used to think he was quality, but looking at these names, I think he loses to Peterson, Mathysse and Garcia. He's just not that good any more. Was he ever?

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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue 12 Mar 2013, 5:51 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Khan is done in my eyes. He didn't deal with Peterson and although there are questions can be raised, a world class boxer makes Peterson look ordinary. I don't like Bradley - infact I think he's garbage compared to other 140lb greats but fact is he made Peterson look worse. Khan didn't, that was a tough fight.

Then you've got Garcia, who for all intents and purposes isn't as good as Khan in terms of boxing, but what he does have is a good chin and a good punch. Khan got flattened. He peaked around the time he fought Judah/Maidana and lets face it, he nearly went out then. I just don't see it any more. I used to think he was quality, but looking at these names, I think he loses to Peterson, Mathysse and Garcia. He's just not that good any more. Was he ever?

He just doesn't have a good chin Jab, take out that equation and I think he beats them all with not too much question in my view. Especially now under Hunter.

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Post by Guest Tue 12 Mar 2013, 6:36 pm

Alex, I'm not writing Khan off but it's too early to make sweeping statements like "especially now under Hunter".

I saw nothing different in Khan's fight with Molina. Same old Khan.

Need more evidence before Khan v4/5/6 under Hunter is judged a success.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue 12 Mar 2013, 7:38 pm

TumblingDice wrote:Alex, I'm not writing Khan off but it's too early to make sweeping statements like "especially now under Hunter".

I saw nothing different in Khan's fight with Molina. Same old Khan.

Need more evidence before Khan v4/5/6 under Hunter is judged a success.

I did, lots of subtle differences, could see he was thinking a little more at times, also did noone else but me see that he had an inside game?! Seriously when has Khan ever shown that before? Never is the answer, he has already progressed in my view under Hunter and I think he is a good fit for me.


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Post by Guest Tue 12 Mar 2013, 8:39 pm

I'm yet to be convinced chief. Very early days and I hope he does improve but I saw the same Khan against a vastly overmatched opponent. He simply knew he could bully Molina.

Not a criticism as it was a warm up after a brutal ko. Too early for me to jump aboard the Hunter Khan dream team train.

Would like Lucas to win this.

Shame Rios isn't involved. There's a thought, Khan v Rios with the winner to face to the tournament winner.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Tue 12 Mar 2013, 8:40 pm

Top Rank Rios won't be going near any of the top men at 140lbs or 147lbs.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Tue 12 Mar 2013, 8:57 pm

There's a thought, Khan v Rios with the winner to face the tournament winner.



Now that would be a real tournament. Why couldn't Richard Schaeffer think of that?

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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:03 pm

Because of what Ghosty said

As long as Arum refuses to work with GB, Rios (and Bradley) won't go anywhere near the other GB fighters mentioned

GoldenBoy have already asked if they can make Matthysse-Rios (guaranteed FOTY) and Arum wouldn't bite

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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:07 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Top Rank Rios won't be going near any of the top men at 140lbs or 147lbs.

I think he would, he just won't go near any of GBP's men... Oh wait, that is every top fighter at 140 and 147...

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Post by Herman Jaeger Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:14 pm

Arum's got a great fight lined up for Rios with Bradley , and then the winner of that to face Pacquaio or Marquez.


So the one I and plenty of other fans want to see most of all- Rios/Matthysse, is looking less likely than ever. Which is irritating in the extreme.

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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:18 pm

I wrote something on a thread a while ago that I think that the Rios/Bradley situation may just be the thing that forces Arum's hand to put his ego aside and work with GB and DLH

Rios moreso than Bradley has a strong fanbase and an exciting style, matching him up wih the likes of Garcia, Peterson, Broner, Matthysse or even the welterweights like Ortiz, Berto, Guerrero etc will all be money spinners and good exposure and will attract alot of viewers

Manny and Marquez probably won't have a big fight with anyone other than themselves so the original plan of Rios taking on one of them won't come to fruition.

Rios won't like sitting on the sidelines, he has already talked of his disappointment that he has had to rematch Alvarado

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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:26 pm

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:I wrote something on a thread a while ago that I think that the Rios/Bradley situation may just be the thing that forces Arum's hand to put his ego aside and work with GB and DLH

Rios moreso than Bradley has a strong fanbase and an exciting style, matching him up wih the likes of Garcia, Peterson, Broner, Matthysse or even the welterweights like Ortiz, Berto, Guerrero etc will all be money spinners and good exposure and will attract alot of viewers

Manny and Marquez probably won't have a big fight with anyone other than themselves so the original plan of Rios taking on one of them won't come to fruition.

Rios won't like sitting on the sidelines, he has already talked of his disappointment that he has had to rematch Alvarado

Yeah, I'm also hoping for something like that and hopefully it will force his hand, its ridiculous, promoters should at least work together to help there fighters careers, the main two don't even have to worry about being tied to certain channels etc. which makes the whole thing even more of a farce.

Fairplay to Rios also, the man wants to fight the very best and he wants Matthysse, that fight would surely be a FOTY.

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Post by TheMackemMawler Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:39 pm

I wish everyone would stop nibbling Mathhysses nads. He's a mix between Maidana and Ortiz. He packs a whallop and is more skilled than Maidana but not as skilled as Ortiz (.....but has a bigger heart).

The very best "boxers" in the division beat him as long as they don't get tagged.
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Post by Herman Jaeger Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:41 pm

[quote="WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs"]I wrote something on a thread a while ago that I think that the Rios/Bradley situation may just be the thing that forces Arum's hand to put his ego aside and work with GB and DLH



I must have missed that. Could you lay it out for me again as to why that might be the case? Sorry, I'm not trying to be thick.






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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:42 pm

TheMackemMawler wrote:I wish everyone would stop nibbling Mathhysses nads. He's a mix between Maidana and Ortiz. He packs a whallop and is more skilled than Maidana but not as skilled as Ortiz (.....but has a bigger heart).

The very best "boxers" in the division beat him as long as they don't get tagged.

Agree, I think he is ridiculously overrated, but there's no doubting the man CAN take out anyone in the 140lb division, I give him that much.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:46 pm

[quote="Herman Jaggery"]
WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:I wrote something on a thread a while ago that I think that the Rios/Bradley situation may just be the thing that forces Arum's hand to put his ego aside and work with GB and DLH



I must have missed that. Could you lay it out for me again as to why that might be the case? Sorry, I'm not trying to be thick.






No other good fighters out there apart from the ones that GBP have in the 140 and 147 divisions.

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Post by TheMackemMawler Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:47 pm

Yes it would seem he has the equaliser.... though it'll take a little fortune for it to land it against the best and make it count.
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:48 pm

I'd like to see Matthyse try and take out Rios personally, don't think he has much chance of doing it, he'll be in for a shock when he faces someone who can give it out as well as take it.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:50 pm

I would edge towards Matthysse with those two, just think when it comes down to two big hitters with strong chins it's generally the guy with the slightly better defence that takes it (In most cases I reckon) and I think that Matthysse is just that little bit harder to hit.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Tue 12 Mar 2013, 9:52 pm

Rios is very hittable though. And I'd be surprised if he will ever have been hit as hard.


50/50 fight for me. And what a fight.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Tue 12 Mar 2013, 10:26 pm

matthysse all the way!

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Post by azania Tue 12 Mar 2013, 10:32 pm

Matthysse will go down quicker than Monica Lewinsky.

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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Tue 12 Mar 2013, 10:49 pm

[quote="Herman Jaggery"]
WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:I wrote something on a thread a while ago that I think that the Rios/Bradley situation may just be the thing that forces Arum's hand to put his ego aside and work with GB and DLH



I must have missed that. Could you lay it out for me again as to why that might be the case? Sorry, I'm not trying to be thick.


As Alex said I was pointing that other than Marquez and Pacquiao TopRank's stable from 135 to 147 (weight categories associated with big names in the past decade) is very very thin. GoldenBoy pretty much have all the big sellers like the ones I mentioned and look to have a better crop of younger fighters too. Rios isn't like Bradley, he won't sit aside being quiet he will want to get the big fights and the big paydays. He wanted Matthysse instead of Alvarado and has been calling out Garcia and Broner to death so obviously wants those fights. Rios is also a fighter who can give Arum good figures, so he won't want him to fight overmatched opponents when he could make big $$$ off his name

The thing about Matthysse is that he has been generally overlooked by all of the big names so its easy to get on their side and buy into the hype as the fighters themselves aren't proving us wrong. You summed him up decently by mixing Maidana and Ortiz. He is probably more similar to Maidana but he he is much better boxer. I still look at him as having 1 loss as I can't make a case for Alexander (a very good win if he had got the decision) winning that fight

Rios-Matthysse is a 50/50 fight and it may just come down to who has more steal. Rios has a much better inside game, but he takes shots to get there and struggled with Alvarado's size ad Lucas hits alot harder than Mike

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Post by Herman Jaeger Tue 12 Mar 2013, 11:33 pm

Cheers for the post WHU,


I must say, I do think Rios is often underrated on these boards, I think he's one of the best pressure fighters in the game today, and for a man who literally won't take a backward step, he actually takes far fewer shots than you'd think he might be entitled to. He's got balls of steel too and thus far a seemingly impregnable chin. Said it before and I'll say it again, a Matthysse win is no foregone conclusion.

Must have been someone else though who meshed Miadana and Ortiz about Matthysse.



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Post by azania Tue 12 Mar 2013, 11:35 pm

Garcia, Peterson, Khan all beat Lucas for me. Peterson the most convincingly. Judah already has beaten him.

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