Ryan Jones is out, broken bone in shoulder.

How does this affect Wales' back row balance?

http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/story/178635.html

Quote from espnscrum.com 'Jones faces between six and eight weeks out of action and will now focus his attention on recovering from the injury in time to put himself in the British & Irish Lions mix. But the news will come as a setback for Wales as they prepare for Saturday's game against England.'

Massive loss, top 6 Nations performer and back to his old form- DEVALUED ENGLISH SLAM !!!

But I digress, do we start with Tips Warbs and Faletau ? Put Coombes in and then bring on Tips ?

Coombs, warburton and faletau has the best balence. Bring on tup if we're chasing the game.

Start with Warburton and Tips, 6&7

Gutted for him. Means Howley has to make a massive decision now. I'm certain he will go Tips and Warbs, but the decision on whether to potentially distract Sam by selecting him as captain again is huge. I think he will be given the role though, as I don't think Howley will want to knock his confidence by picking a new captain.

I can see them starting Tips and Warbs. If, and it's a big 'if', Warbs goes missing then that's a big plus in the England column, if he doesn't then England will need to be at every breakdown extremely quickly supporting the ball carrier.

I would go with Coombs initially and give the Capts armband to AWJ - However, if England pick Croft in the backrow, I'd be tempted to go with Tips and Warburton

Wales won't miss him much. Pretty over hyped like most in that team.

Might make life tougher for the Wales scrum. Unless they pick Coombs whoever will be taking his place wont have anything like the same pushing power

I myself highly rate Jones and think he's a massive loss. Captaincy is natural to him and he leads Wales very well. Yes their are better No8, better blindsides etc but any Welsh backrow is weaker without him (just like Robshaw is to England).

He carries well and puts in a lot of tackles. Tipuric is not really a ball carrier, neither is Warburton.... who else will take the game to England forwards bar Faletau in the above scenario (no real big ball carriers in that front 5 esp. with Gethin on the bench)? It looks a little off balance and without front foot ball it won't matter if they have 1 or 2 opensides on the pitch... they won't be able to secure quick possession. I think they need another ball carrier myself, not an expert on Welsh players so don't know who would best fit (assuming Lydiate is still injured etc).

In the end do they trust Warburton to take the captaincy in his full stride? I'm not so sure if they should. AW Jones looks a safe bet and it may bring out the animal in him that Wales will want to compete against this ENG pack.

Free up Warburton and let him concentrate on his game.

Hand it to him and I think that he will take too much on and his own game will suffer... and with that the match IMO.

I would go for King at 6 and Coombes on the bench to cover 6/8 and second row. Tips on the bench. Big loss for experience, power, tackling and line out.

englandglory4ever wrote:Wales won't miss him much. Pretty over hyped like most in that team.

He has only three grand slams and a Lions number 8 excluding playing a big part of this year's championship. What have England got to compare?

Coombs to start at 6.Tips on bench.Coombs has been the outstanding newcomer and he should have a taste of Championship glory in the decider.

With Ryan Jones out now. Will Sam Warburton now be given the Captains arm band? Or will the captain now go to AWJ? or some one else?

I am only asking this because Howely was hoping that with out the captains arm band. Sam Warburton would concentrate on his game and getting back to the form he was 2 years ago.

Fair question Madge. It's a tough one for Howley. I think Sam would be better off without it and I guess I would go for AWJ over somebody else like Jenkins, as most players like Jenkins won't play a full game.

As an Englishman, I am disappointed Ryan's not playing. He is a big loss in the Welsh team, both as a Captain & motivator. Will the Welsh be deeply affected? No, of course not. They will be trying to beat England for themselves as well as their country and for Ryan.

You could go on about numerous slams etc being "devalued" through the loss of various players. England have lost 2 of their most effective pack players in Corbisiero & Morgan, yet we've done ok. We missed Farrell last weekend for sure. If the perceived "weaker" team wins, it's seen as a bonus for them; a bigger achievement.

I am looking forward to a hard fought game of rugby. I of course would like England to win. Can they? Without a doubt. Will they? Unsure.

glamorganalun wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Wales won't miss him much. Pretty over hyped like most in that team.

He has only three grand slams and a Lions number 8 excluding playing a big part of this year's championship. What have England got to compare?

Not much. I think this serial whinger is upset that Big Ryan will be keeping Ben Morgan outta the Lions.

Huge blow for Wals and for Ryan himself who I reckon was pushinh for a Lions spot, 6-8 weeks out will damage that chance now.

As for Saturday I think we will see Warbs and Tips with Warbs back as skipper.

Ryan is a big loss, both as a leader and player on present form. But I'll admit I'm very interested in the idea of Warbs and Tipuric starting together. Both looked terrific at the breakdown when playing side by side against Scotland, played a big part in helping Wales control the later stages.

Ryan is a big loss but tips and warbs worked fine together on saturday, no reason why they shouldn't start together.

RJ's loss cannot be overstated....

Not the right game to start King, I'd go with Shingler or Coombs to start, Tips to come on around 50 min mark. Would fit in with the way Wales approach games these days, stay in it for the first 50/60 wear the oppo down etc.

Shock re-call for Jon Thomas?

JT Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I am not a fan of playing players out of position and Coombs and king play mainly as 2nd row for their Regions.

To that end and given he has experience at highest level I think Warbs and Tips is our best option to start with Commbs and SHingler on the bench.

RDSguru wrote:RJ's loss cannot be overstated....

Not the right game to start King, I'd go with Shingler or Coombs to start, Tips to come on around 50 min mark. Would fit in with the way Wales approach games these days, stay in it for the first 50/60 wear the oppo down etc.

Shock re-call for Jon Thomas?

JT has been in great form this season. Shingler has looked good recently for Scarlett's too. Tough call, is Coombs a good enough blindside...?

King is a ridiculous call, he hasn't played anywhere but lock for at least a year unless a sure emergency has arisen.

I would like us to not select Tips and Warbs to start. But I am unsure who I want at Blindeside. Tips and Warbs have been a very effective combo so far. It may well work.

What's great us the make up massively effects the style of our breakdown and not selecting until late will effect England's selection and tactics.

Maes,

I think Warbs and Tips is the safe choice and maybe if the points difference had been such that we wouldn't have (realistically) been in with chance of winning the championship then maybe I might have been inclined to experiment.

But like you said King hasn't played there all season and Coombs not a lot for us and would rather him be used as 2nd row cover.

Shingler was my call to start for the Ireland game but he disappointed in that game, then again not many did impress so harsh to judge him on that.

For me despite not liking playing players out of position I think the safe bet is the way to start.

Shingler picked up an injury early in that game so it is harsh to judge him.

I would be quite tempted to pick him vs England with Warburton at openside and bring young Tipuric on in the second half.

But Tips and Sam work so well as a combination.

I do think it will be Warbs and Tips with the other interesting decision being who has the armband.

Howley said Ryan Jones kept it for last game to allow Warburton to concentrate on his game alone so does he give it back to him for this game or give it to say AWJ?

For me I think we will see Warburton at 6 and skipper

He did a good job as substitute captain last week. And for a decent amount of the game. Ryan Jones went off early, (49th minute).

I do really like the idea of AWJ taking the helm. Though I have a feeling that higher powers are requesting both Warburtons inclusion and captaincy as an audition regarding other tours.

All the arguments are so strong for each case I haven't a clue what will or should happen.

I think my decision would be Tips Warbs and AwJ Captain... May change my mind before the day is out...!

My only concern with a backrow featuring both Warburton and Tipuric is that it might be slightly lightweight. Our scrum's been a major positive this Six Nations and Ryan Jones's weight has helped there. On top of that, I keep having nightmares that England will kick to the corners and try and maul their way over the line. We still need some bulk to counter that.

On the other hand, I have other dreams where Warburton and Tipuric rule the breakdown and we have a field day!

Howley's had some big calls to make this Six Nations, some have paid off and others haven't. He has another big call to make this week.

Team announcement is Thursday.

As you said LP he has had some big calls to make, I think he has made the right calls too, Warbs and AWJ in, Ryan to Captain, Tips over Warbs... He has done a great job, all away from home.

As the morons on 606 constantly sreech from the rafters Wales have usually lost at least two games following one of our recent Grand Slams.

That's the thing, even if we end up second in the table, it's a major improvement over our usual 4th.

I really can't call this game at all. Another nightmare I have is of Chris Ashton scoring...

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That's the thing, even if we end up second in the table, it's a major improvement over our usual 4th.

I really can't call this game at all. Another nightmare I have is of Chris Ashton scoring...

Ha ha ha, on a positive note Ashton hasn't had much practice scoring in quite some time. From what I read on the English fans poses he is seriously out of favour.

Lancaster's backed himself into a corner with Ashton. He's given him all tournament to find form instead of trying an alternative, and now it would be quite a risk to throw someone in for the final game at the Millennium.

maestegmafia wrote:Shingler picked up an injury early in that game so it is harsh to judge him.

I would be quite tempted to pick him vs England with Warburton at openside and bring young Tipuric on in the second half.

But Tips and Sam work so well as a combination.

Why is Warbs just 'Warburton' but Tips is 'young Tipuric'. They are pretty much the same age - were the same age group year etc. Is it because he has more of a baby face?

I'd play them both from the start and run the English pack ragged. That isn't in the gameplan manual though, so Howley may have to find some bulk from somewhere to replace Ryan Jones, who has 'put in a massive shift' for us.

Unless we tweak the tactics though, I don't think Ryan's injury and who replaces him will make any difference.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Lancaster's backed himself into a corner with Ashton. He's given him all tournament to find form instead of trying an alternative, and now it would be quite a risk to throw someone in for the final game at the Millennium.

Poor old Howley was pinpointed for the same reasoning with a few Welsh players. It has worked for Wales.

It has seemed with Ashton that if you give him enough to worry about defencively that he loses focus. Hopefully his petulant nature and dirty play, doesn't result in one of our lads getting in trouble responding to something he's done.

Casartelli wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Shingler picked up an injury early in that game so it is harsh to judge him.

I would be quite tempted to pick him vs England with Warburton at openside and bring young Tipuric on in the second half.

But Tips and Sam work so well as a combination.

Why is Warbs just 'Warburton' but Tips is 'young Tipuric'. They are pretty much the same age - were the same age group year etc. Is it because he has more of a baby face?

I'd play them both from the start and run the English pack ragged. That isn't in the gameplan manual though, so Howley may have to find some bulk from somewhere to replace Ryan Jones, who has 'put in a massive shift' for us.

Unless we tweak the tactics though, I don't think Ryan's injury and who replaces him will make any difference.

That is pathetically pedantic.

maestegmafia wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Shingler picked up an injury early in that game so it is harsh to judge him.

I would be quite tempted to pick him vs England with Warburton at openside and bring young Tipuric on in the second half.

But Tips and Sam work so well as a combination.

Why is Warbs just 'Warburton' but Tips is 'young Tipuric'. They are pretty much the same age - were the same age group year etc. Is it because he has more of a baby face?

I'd play them both from the start and run the English pack ragged. That isn't in the gameplan manual though, so Howley may have to find some bulk from somewhere to replace Ryan Jones, who has 'put in a massive shift' for us.

Unless we tweak the tactics though, I don't think Ryan's injury and who replaces him will make any difference.

That is pathetically pedantic.

I get like that in the run up to big games. It's the tension.

englandglory4ever wrote:Wales won't miss him much. Pretty over hyped like most in that team.

Well Maesteg - it's not as pathetic or pedantic as this insightful contribution.

Surely with Jones gone, England will bang it in the corners and target the welsh lineout ? The two locks who look like being fit with Croft, Wood and Robshaw all lineout specialists will be up against AWJ, Warburton and.....?
Wales have also lost a major ball carrier with Faletau only being marginally successful in that role thus far?
The welsh defensively at the breakdown will be fit for purpose but offensively not sure they have as many options as they should. I would expect Haskell to make an impact at some point, to smash the breakdown defenders too.

Lots for the England mngt to think about.

The and...? Recwatcher is the 6ft 8ins Ian Evans

Offensively we do have 1 or 2 options via North, Cuthbert, JD, Jamie, Iron Mike and Scott Williams

That's exactly what I fear England will do, Recwatcher. They'll already know that we don't challenge on the opponents' throw.

England would love the welsh lineout to throw to the front to Evans, which means slow ball to the midfield....which will be gobbled up by Barritt and co.
Suspect Phillips will need to have a really big game for Wales on the above scenario.

Gutted to see he's out. For me he has been one of the players of the tournament so far, one of his biggest strengths being such a good team player.

Recwatcher wrote:Surely with Jones gone, England will bang it in the corners and target the welsh lineout ? The two locks who look like being fit with Croft, Wood and Robshaw all lineout specialists will be up against AWJ, Warburton and.....?
Wales have also lost a major ball carrier with Faletau only being marginally successful in that role thus far?
The welsh defensively at the breakdown will be fit for purpose but offensively not sure they have as many options as they should. I would expect Haskell to make an impact at some point, to smash the breakdown defenders too.

Lots for the England mngt to think about.

I agree, it is what concerns me, Wales looked much weaker when Jones went off from the driving line out and rolling mauls.

offload wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Wales won't miss him much. Pretty over hyped like most in that team.

Well Maesteg - it's not as pathetic or pedantic as this insightful contribution.

I just keep that guy on the ignore setting...!