England summer tour of Argentina

First topic message reminder :

Updated prior to Consur XV game:

Forwards (18)
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby, 2 caps)
Rob Buchanan (Harlequins, uncapped)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish, 18 caps)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs, 5 caps)
Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors, uncapped)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 9 caps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 20 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 10 caps)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 10 caps)
David Paice (London Irish, 6 caps)
Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
Billy Vunipola (London Wasps, uncapped)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 26 caps)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, captain, 18 caps)

Backs (14)
Mike Brown (Harlequins, 16 caps)
Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, 7 caps)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints, 30 caps)
Alex Goode (Saracens, 11 caps)
Jonathan Joseph (London Irish, 4 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
David Strettle (Saracens, 13 caps)
Joel Tomkins (Saracens, uncapped)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 4 caps)
Christian Wade (London Wasps, uncapped)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 12 caps)
Marland Yarde (London Irish, uncapped)

With Kearnan Myall and Haydn Thomas added to the squad for the Barbarians game.

Sides for the Consur XV game - KO 19.30

England: Ben Foden (Northampton Saints); Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints), Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby), David Strettle (Saracens); Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens); Joe Marler (Harlequins); David Paice (London Irish); Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks); Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints); Kearnan Myall (Unattached); Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, captain); Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), Billy Vunipola (London Wasps)

Replacements: Rob Buchanan (Harlequins), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints), Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors) 21 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)

CONSUR XV: Tomás Carrió (Argentina); Belisario Agulla (Argentina), Francisco Sansot (Argentina), Juan Socino (Argentina), Leandro Leivas (Uruguay); Benjamín Madero (Argentina), Tomás Cubelli -C- (Argentina), Bruno Postiglioni (Argentina), Arturo Ávalo (Uruguay), Mario Sagario (Uruguay), Cesar Fruttero (Argentina), Pablo Huete (Chile), Tomás de la Vega (Argentina), Javier Ortega Desio (Argentina), Antonio Ahualli (Argentina)

Replacements: Alejo Corral (Uruguay), Óscar Durán (Uruguay), Nicolás Klapenbach (Uruguay), Diego Magno (Uruguay), Juan Gaminara (Uruguay), Agustín Ormaechea(Uruguay), Mosiés Duque (Brasil), Santiago Gbernau (Uruguay)

http://www.espn.co.uk/england/rugby/story/184014.html

The game contains plenty of developing players on both sides who won't have played together much so should be interesting. From an England perspective I can't to see how Foden does back in the 15 shirt and also really looking forward to Jonny May getting a chance on the wing as I've been pushing for him to be selected all season (and before that even!).

To be completely honest I know little about most of the Consur XV players but as a Tigers fan I'm looking forward to seeing Horacio Agulla's younger brother Belisario on the right wing. I always rated Horacio very highly and enjoyed his style of play so I'm hoping for much the same from Belisario!

So, now we know - lets take the strongest team possible to Argentina.

Marler/Corbis-Webber-Wilson
Launchbury-Lawes
Wood-Robshaw-Morgan
Care
F.Burns
Ashton
Twelvetrees
Barritt/Joseph
May
Brown

propdavid_london wrote:So, now we know - lets take the strongest team possible to Argentina.

Marler/Corbis-Webber-Wilson
Launchbury-Lawes
Wood-Robshaw-Morgan
Care
F.Burns
Ashton
Twelvetrees
Barritt/Joseph
May
Brown

Disagree, nows the time we take the chance to blood some players such as Fraser, Kvesic, Slater, Attwood, Garvey, wade and Vunipola. Still a stong side but these are the players which need to be in and around the team and squad for the next 6 nations.

We will probably not face a full strength Argentina team if they do as they did for France's visit last year.

So for me I would rest Launchbury, robshaw and Ashton

Last year argentina put out a strong side in one test and an inexperienced side in the other,maybe we should do the same.

Launchbury is young and needs the experience more than a rest. Besides, want to see him and Lawes as a unit.

Robshaw would tear his hair out if left at home - but perhaps he needs a rest, even if he'll swear he doesn't.

Ashton needs to stay at home and study Zen Buddhism or something like that.

Fair point - so take a big sqad out there. select the players that push the most in training sessions.
I dont think that SL can afford to come back from this tour with a 2-0 defeat.

Happy to swap Ashton for Wade - a revolving door that scores trys is better than a revolving door that doesnt.

Many of those players you mentioned No 7&1/2 - would also go.
either dropped in to the starting line up or on the bench.

I like the look of Slater recently - could be a real bonus to England.

I'm undecided on my back up no.9 to Care! Wigglesworth/Simpson/L.Dickson/K.Dickson???

Yeah im in agreeance with edging towards a more development squad...it doesnt mean it ll be redicuoulsy weak, just allows us to view a few of the fringe and upand coming players.

Players like Attwood, Slater etc have been impressing, Wade MUST get a start now.
Likewise Burns etc need to be looked at.

Hooker will be interesting we have all been saying we need to see what else we have...and both get picked for the Lions.
Means we can check out three new guys...Webber probably the obvious first choicer, with the likes of Lindsay and Buchanan great prospects...

Someone said it correctly previously...judge on individual basis. If Care looks fresh as a daisy , but Robshaw looks a bit tired, then take Care and give Robshaw the full summer off. We then have experience at 9 and can look at Kvesic and Fraser at 7.

The Lion's announcement leaves us very exposed at hooker. I must say that I am not entirely convinced by Rob Webber at the moment, I can't remember a particularly standout performance from him. I'd be interested to know what his stats are like regarding the lineout and how many metres he makes in a match.

I’d definitely like to see Lindsay go, but I would prefer it if he was first choice at Wasps. Actually (contradicting myself) our hooker resources aren’t actually looking that bad these days. We’ve got three nuggety carriers (Youngs, Lindsay and Buchanan), one guy who can do the basics extremely well (Joe Gray) and the experienced international (Hartley). There you go, I just cheered myself up!

Tom Youngs, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole, Matt Stevens, Mako Vunipola
Geoff Parling, Tom Croft, Ben Youngs, Owen Farrell, Manu Tuilagi

So with the above away, and the "possibility" of the likes of Robshaw, Launchbury being rested..puts an interesting perspective on the selection.

Certainly Marler will be first choice Loosie...but who now comes as backup?
Both hookers selected...opens the options wide open...

Parling selected and Croft...means we need to identify another lineout guru..Wood may have to travel...or Kitchener etc...

Mullan is the obvious choice as back up loosie,he deserves a chance.

Squad announced next Wednesday I believe, so a week of speculation

Wendy, i completely forgot about him...of course he's the natural option.

Next wednesday...excellent cant wait.

30 man squad apparently,room for 3 hookers,great baptism of fire for them.

Yeah i heard it was a 30 man squad...its going to be interesting...

Come on then lets debate it...

Wood and Robshaw...will they be selected or rested...

.GF
It's a bit bare after mullan,we have wood and catt after that raw players like Harrison or rimmer .

Burns or Flood to play fly-half?

Burns for me...

sickofwendy wrote:.GF
It's a bit bare after mullan,we have wood and catt after that raw players like Harrison or rimmer .

It is...but if you think...when all fit and firing we have...

Corbs - 1st choice
Marler & Vunipola (Now a lion tourist) just coming through at 22 and 21 or something...
Mullan whos still only 25 and a quality player...moving to Wasps next season.
Wood - Who seems to have been around forever...
Then the youngsters coming through...

So really we're not in to bad a shape...just this tour is a bit bare with Corbs and Vunipola now unavailable. Marler and Mullan are quality Loosies though.

Wood will depend on how his foot is. He missed a lot of rugby last season so shouldn't have as much fatigue as Robshaw, so it will come down to his old injury.

Morgan will be frustrated to have missed most of the Six Nations. Based on his form he would probably have beaten Heaslip to Australia if he'd stayed fit, so will want to get on the field. I'd put Care and Foden in the group of players who will just want a chance to get back in the team also.

Marler/Buchanan/Wilson
Launchbury/Lawes
Wood/Morgan/Fraser

Care
Burns
May
Twelvetrees
Tomkins
Wade
Foden

Thomh

I think your probably correct. I would replace Lawes with Attwood or Slater and Kvesic might just edge it at 7...but aside from that id probably have the same team.

GF

Think Vunipola has to start at least one of the tests as we desperately need to build some strength in depth at 8. Think Morgans injury put paid to his and Wood's chances for the Lions as the replacements aren't fancied anymore.

Oh yeah we have to take Morgan and Vunipola...both need to get plenty of gametime.

1st test:

6 Wood
7 Kvesic
8 Morgan

2nd Test (An All Sarries back row)

6 Kruis
7 Fraser
8 Vunipola

GeordieFalcon wrote:So really we're not in to bad a shape...just this tour is a bit bare with Corbs and Vunipola now unavailable. Marler and Mullan are quality Loosies though.

Is it confirmed that Corbisiero is unavailable to tour? I thought he had returned to the LI 23 in recent weeks? As a Saints fan I would be happy to see him have the summer off to ensure full recovery but I'd imagine that SL will want to take him if he is available.

To be honest i was just assuming that after so long out he wouldnt be available for selection to give more time for recovery.

No midweek games, but 4 consecutive weekends including the Barbarians match, so a couple more additional players might be needed, but these are the core that I want to see feature, with a number of players being left at home to rest or focus on pre-season.


Corbisero, Marler

Webber, Lindsay

Wilson, Thomas

Launchbury, Slater, Kitchener, Lawes

Wood, Kvesic, Fraser, Haskell

Morgan, Vunipola

Care, Simpson

Burns, Flood

Twelvetrees, Eastmond/Allen

Joseph, Tomkins, Daly (covering centre, wing & FB)

May, Wade, Yarde

Brown, Foden

Niwatts, I think thats not far off what the core of most peoples squads would be. We probably all have our own little tweaks to it...mine would be below....

Marler, Mullan

Webber, Lindsay, Buchanan

Wilson, Thomas, PDJ

Launchbury, Slater, Kitchener, Attwood

Wood, Kvesic, Fraser, Kruis

Morgan, Vunipola

Care, Simpson

Burns, Flood

Twelvetrees, Banahan

Tomkins, Daly, Eastmond (both covering centre, wing & FB)

May, Wade, Yarde

Brown, Foden.

Haskell really needs a rest,3 years solid rugby is too much.
I think kruis is taken he should be taken as a lock.I know he has played well at 6 at times but I think after the lawes fiasco we should take a specialist,maybe fearns or Johnson.

So we basically have all our players, we can take whoever we want

We should rest Robshaw (especially as he is currently injured but will probably play in the playoffs only half-fit) and Wood who has been injured all season. I'll put a squad up later

So yet again no Exeter Chiefs players..... Despite being in the box seat for Heineken cup qualification again.... Despite having 5 English props and hookers in the lions squad....... And Exeter being renowned for its forwards beef.... And having 5 English qualified props and hookers....

If he is fit, I reckon Lancaster will take Callum Clarke, he has seemed very keen to get him involved since he took over.

Tiger/Chief wrote:So yet again no Exeter Chiefs players..... Despite being in the box seat for Heineken cup qualification again.... Despite having 5 English props and hookers in the lions squad....... And Exeter being renowned for its forwards beef.... And having 5 English qualified props and hookers....

Which ones would you take? A good portion of those players are over 30 or close to it and have never been capped. Exeter are better than the sum of their parts, they compete without superstars.

Personally I would have liked England to take a look at Jack Nowell, but he (along with a number of other Exeter lads) is going with the England U20s, so no argument there. Give it a couple of years, you'll be wishing England weren't so interested in your youngsters!

The evening standard is reporting that robshaw will be rested and wood will be captain.
Interesting,does this mean robshaw is not even on standby after 2 motm awards in the 6N

My take on things.

Tight Five

Our tight five was reasonably effective in the Six Nations, and this shows with Mako Vunipola, Tom Youngs, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole and Geoff Parling being called up to the Lions. In addition to these 5 missing, I would rest Alex Corbisiero over the summer to make sure he has time for his knee to properly heal. I really rate Corbs, and I think had he been fit he could have been competing for the Lions test jersey.

I'd like to take Joe Marler and Joe Launchbury because they're quite young and this experience should do them good, however they will have never had a season of rugby like the one they've just had, and this may be a tour too far. Mako and Parling should be tired after the Lions tour and we may wish to rest them in the AIs, so it wouldn't do to burn out these two as well.

Assuming they are fit though, I would be looking to take 7 front row players and 3/4 locks in a squad of 30. In addition, I think David Wilson and Courtney Lawes are certs. That leaves a requirement of 3 hookers, back-up props and 1 or 2 second rows. I think Gray has been around the squad the most and should probably go, but I am more excited about Lindsay and Buchanan and would take both hookers. At tight-head, I think Doran-Jones has slipped a bit, and I'd take the opportunity to have a look at Kyle Sinckler. I also think Matt Mullan is long overdue a chance for a second (?) cap and would take him. In the second row, I would be looking to take Attwood. My fourth choice lock would be Kruis, who is capable of covering second row and back row. Kruis would get on my test bench as his versatility offers me more options.

Test starters: Marler, Lindsay, Wilson, Launchbury, Lawes
Test bench: Mullan, Buchanan, Sinckler, Kruis
Also tour: Gray, Attwood

Back row

Not a great area of strength for England in the Six Nations, but in my opinion not due to a lack of individual talent. This is reflected by only Tom Croft getting a call-up to the Lions, which is probably based on club form and previous touring experience more than it is on Six Nations form - where he barely featured.

The development here needs to be to let Tom Wood show what a class international 6 he is and to develop real options at 8. In Morgan - who I believe was unlucky not to tour with the Lions - and Vunipola again we have options, but they need more time at International level.

There is a big question as to what to do with Robshaw. He's put in a lot of work as he is heavily relied on by Quins and England, and could probably do with a break. Rowntree's comments also suggest that Robshaw may be first reserve for the Lions tour. If leaving him at home would affect his chances of getting a Lions call-up I'd take him, otherwise I'd let him captain England at home against the Barbarians (other commitments pending) and then let him rest over the summer.

Which leaves me with two flanker spots to fill (as we have Kruis covering 6). I'd pick Kvesic and Fraser to fight it out for the 7 shirt.

Test starters: Wood (C), Kvesic, Morgan
Test bench: Vunipola
Also tour: Fraser

Half backs

Our first choice half backs have been called up for Lions duty, meaning we have to look at some options.

I imagine Danny Care will be absolutely champing at the bit to tour Argentina and try and win back the England 9 shirt and show Gatland what he's missed out on. Couple that with the worrying lack of options behind him and I'd take him. Picking a back-up is more hard, Lee Dickson is a possibility with his recent International experience. I don't see Dickson as a particularly long-term solution, but there isn't really anyone else demanding selection.

At fly-half the situation is worryingly similar. Flood and Burns are the two obvious options with absolutely nothing else to inspire. Question is, which one do you start? With 2 "barbarian" games (against the Barbarians and the South American XV) and 2 tests, do you just give one of each to each? Flood to start against the Barbarians, Burns to start against the South American XV and make your decision for the tests based on that.

Test starters: Care, Flood
Test bench: Dickson, Burns

Centres

Tuilagi has been our stand-out back recently, and deservedly tours with the Lions. Which does force us to look at our options.

Twelvetrees and Barritt will both be vying for the 12 shirt, and neither will want to miss the tour and lose ground. They could even play together as they did against Scotland and Ireland at the start of the Six Nations.

For me Tomkins is the one I'd like to look at. I think he's had a good season at Sarries. Trinder is the 4th centre I'd take.

It's tough to know what the combination to start would be. I was leaning towards Twelvetrees and Tomkins, and I'd probably give that combination the nod at Twickenham for the Barbarians game.

Test starters: Twelvetrees, Tomkins
Also tour: Barritt, Trinder

Back three

Christian Wade.

None of the England back three that played in the Six Nations made it into the Lions squad, but that's hardly surprising. For me, Chris Ashton should be rested/dropped and given a chance to have a rest and a good pre-season and try to get back to his best.

I think it has been a lack of options on the wing that have forced us to play first Ben Foden, then Mike Brown in the 11 shirt, but I don't believe that's an issue now. Along with Wade, Jonny May looks like a very exciting player and I'd take him to play on the other wing to Wade. Our backs have really lacked players who can beat their opposite number with pace and footwork, and May and Wade offer us this. Forget about any perceived defensive deficiencies, let's give the opposition something to worry about.

The third winger I'd select would be Tom Varndell. He's worked hard on his game since moving to Wasps and has a hat full of tries this season. His partnership with Wade is also a good way to introduce Wade into the scene, possibly starting the two Wasps boys together against the Barbarians.

Full backs and I haven't been impressed with Goode. I'm not going to say I'd rest him, I would drop him. Brown and Foden (covering wing) would be my first choice two, which would allow me to take Daly as a bit of a wildcard, covering 15 and centre (which could allow Twelvetrees to cover 10 if we had an injury and didn't want to call anyone up). I'd start with Brown over Foden, Brown deserved his shot at 15 and didn't deserve to be shunted to 11. Give Brown a chance at 15 and if he does well he can keep the shirt, if not I'd bring Foden back in for the autumn.

Test starters: May, Wade, Brown.
Test bench: Foden
Also tour: Varndell, Daly

Summary

14 new caps in the squad of 30 represents a lot of fresh blood being added to the squad, but looking at the proposed matchday 15/23, I think it's a strong enough team to deliver a series victory if we play well. I think Lancaster has made some selection mistakes, but he is still quite green as a coach. If he can learn from this and use the opportunity to blood players in a lower pressure environment that the Lions has given him we can really address those issues and be in a better place moving forward.

Test team: Marler, Lindsay, Wilson, Launchbury, Lawes, Wood (C), Kvesic, Morgan, Care, Flood, May, Twelvetrees, Tomkins, Wade, Brown.
Test bench: Buchanan, Mullan, Sinckler, Kruis, Vunipola, Dickson, Burns, Foden
Also tour: Gray, Attwood, Fraser, Barritt, Trinder, Varndell, Daly.

robbo277 wrote:My take on things.

Tight Five

Our tight five was reasonably effective in the Six Nations, and this shows with Mako Vunipola, Tom Youngs, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole and Geoff Parling being called up to the Lions. In addition to these 5 missing, I would rest Alex Corbisiero over the summer to make sure he has time for his knee to properly heal. I really rate Corbs, and I think had he been fit he could have been competing for the Lions test jersey.

I'd like to take Joe Marler and Joe Launchbury because they're quite young and this experience should do them good, however they will have never had a season of rugby like the one they've just had, and this may be a tour too far. Mako and Parling should be tired after the Lions tour and we may wish to rest them in the AIs, so it wouldn't do to burn out these two as well.

Assuming they are fit though, I would be looking to take 7 front row players and 3/4 locks in a squad of 30. In addition, I think David Wilson and Courtney Lawes are certs. That leaves a requirement of 3 hookers, back-up props and 1 or 2 second rows. I think Gray has been around the squad the most and should probably go, but I am more excited about Lindsay and Buchanan and would take both hookers. At tight-head, I think Doran-Jones has slipped a bit, and I'd take the opportunity to have a look at Kyle Sinckler. I also think Matt Mullan is long overdue a chance for a second (?) cap and would take him. In the second row, I would be looking to take Attwood. My fourth choice lock would be Kruis, who is capable of covering second row and back row. Kruis would get on my test bench as his versatility offers me more options.

Test starters: Marler, Lindsay, Wilson, Launchbury, Lawes
Test bench: Mullan, Buchanan, Sinckler, Kruis
Also tour: Gray, Attwood

Back row

Not a great area of strength for England in the Six Nations, but in my opinion not due to a lack of individual talent. This is reflected by only Tom Croft getting a call-up to the Lions, which is probably based on club form and previous touring experience more than it is on Six Nations form - where he barely featured.

The development here needs to be to let Tom Wood show what a class international 6 he is and to develop real options at 8. In Morgan - who I believe was unlucky not to tour with the Lions - and Vunipola again we have options, but they need more time at International level.

There is a big question as to what to do with Robshaw. He's put in a lot of work as he is heavily relied on by Quins and England, and could probably do with a break. Rowntree's comments also suggest that Robshaw may be first reserve for the Lions tour. If leaving him at home would affect his chances of getting a Lions call-up I'd take him, otherwise I'd let him captain England at home against the Barbarians (other commitments pending) and then let him rest over the summer.

Which leaves me with two flanker spots to fill (as we have Kruis covering 6). I'd pick Kvesic and Fraser to fight it out for the 7 shirt.

Test starters: Wood (C), Kvesic, Morgan
Test bench: Vunipola
Also tour: Fraser

Half backs

Our first choice half backs have been called up for Lions duty, meaning we have to look at some options.

I imagine Danny Care will be absolutely champing at the bit to tour Argentina and try and win back the England 9 shirt and show Gatland what he's missed out on. Couple that with the worrying lack of options behind him and I'd take him. Picking a back-up is more hard, Lee Dickson is a possibility with his recent International experience. I don't see Dickson as a particularly long-term solution, but there isn't really anyone else demanding selection.

At fly-half the situation is worryingly similar. Flood and Burns are the two obvious options with absolutely nothing else to inspire. Question is, which one do you start? With 2 "barbarian" games (against the Barbarians and the South American XV) and 2 tests, do you just give one of each to each? Flood to start against the Barbarians, Burns to start against the South American XV and make your decision for the tests based on that.

Test starters: Care, Flood
Test bench: Dickson, Burns

Centres

Tuilagi has been our stand-out back recently, and deservedly tours with the Lions. Which does force us to look at our options.

Twelvetrees and Barritt will both be vying for the 12 shirt, and neither will want to miss the tour and lose ground. They could even play together as they did against Scotland and Ireland at the start of the Six Nations.

For me Tomkins is the one I'd like to look at. I think he's had a good season at Sarries. Trinder is the 4th centre I'd take.

It's tough to know what the combination to start would be. I was leaning towards Twelvetrees and Tomkins, and I'd probably give that combination the nod at Twickenham for the Barbarians game.

Test starters: Twelvetrees, Tomkins
Also tour: Barritt, Trinder

Back three

Christian Wade.

None of the England back three that played in the Six Nations made it into the Lions squad, but that's hardly surprising. For me, Chris Ashton should be rested/dropped and given a chance to have a rest and a good pre-season and try to get back to his best.

I think it has been a lack of options on the wing that have forced us to play first Ben Foden, then Mike Brown in the 11 shirt, but I don't believe that's an issue now. Along with Wade, Jonny May looks like a very exciting player and I'd take him to play on the other wing to Wade. Our backs have really lacked players who can beat their opposite number with pace and footwork, and May and Wade offer us this. Forget about any perceived defensive deficiencies, let's give the opposition something to worry about.

The third winger I'd select would be Tom Varndell. He's worked hard on his game since moving to Wasps and has a hat full of tries this season. His partnership with Wade is also a good way to introduce Wade into the scene, possibly starting the two Wasps boys together against the Barbarians.

Full backs and I haven't been impressed with Goode. I'm not going to say I'd rest him, I would drop him. Brown and Foden (covering wing) would be my first choice two, which would allow me to take Daly as a bit of a wildcard, covering 15 and centre (which could allow Twelvetrees to cover 10 if we had an injury and didn't want to call anyone up). I'd start with Brown over Foden, Brown deserved his shot at 15 and didn't deserve to be shunted to 11. Give Brown a chance at 15 and if he does well he can keep the shirt, if not I'd bring Foden back in for the autumn.

Test starters: May, Wade, Brown.
Test bench: Foden
Also tour: Varndell, Daly

Summary

14 new caps in the squad of 30 represents a lot of fresh blood being added to the squad, but looking at the proposed matchday 15/23, I think it's a strong enough team to deliver a series victory if we play well. I think Lancaster has made some selection mistakes, but he is still quite green as a coach. If he can learn from this and use the opportunity to blood players in a lower pressure environment that the Lions has given him we can really address those issues and be in a better place moving forward.

Test team: Marler, Lindsay, Wilson, Launchbury, Lawes, Wood (C), Kvesic, Morgan, Care, Flood, May, Twelvetrees, Tomkins, Wade, Brown.
Test bench: Buchanan, Mullan, Sinckler, Kruis, Vunipola, Dickson, Burns, Foden
Also tour: Gray, Attwood, Fraser, Barritt, Trinder, Varndell, Daly.

That looks pretty bang on +1

Isn't Tom Johnson still in the EPS?

Ah, but he's old and Exe are a team that is just a bunch of average blokes that play well together ...

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Isn't Tom Johnson still in the EPS?

Ah, but he's old and Exe are a team that is just a bunch of average blokes that play well together ...

We already know what he has to offer so bringing him instead of say Fraser or Kvesic wouldn't teach us much?

ChequeredJersey wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Isn't Tom Johnson still in the EPS?

Ah, but he's old and Exe are a team that is just a bunch of average blokes that play well together ...

We already know what he has to offer so bringing him instead of say Fraser or Kvesic wouldn't teach us much?

Is this tour just about a learning experience then, CJ? Soz, hadn't realised

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Isn't Tom Johnson still in the EPS?

Ah, but he's old and Exe are a team that is just a bunch of average blokes that play well together ...

We already know what he has to offer so bringing him instead of say Fraser or Kvesic wouldn't teach us much?

Is this tour just about a learning experience then, CJ? Soz, hadn't realised

THought that was what we aimed to get traditionally from the Lions-time England Tour. Would be great to have TJ in there as another backrower, but if we wanted to win the tour, we shouldn't rest our captain

I haven't been impressed with Tom Johnson at International level. He's a hard worker, but I don't think he's fully taken his chance. Could call on him in an emergency, but I think we should be looking elsewhere.

I'd be tempted to rest the first choice players so there fresh for next season. Take the players on the fringes and the ones who have had long injury lay offs.

This is the last opportuity SL has before 2015 to take a look at a number of fringe players in a properly competitive environment.

I'd expect to see May on the left wing and Wade on the right. Yarde and Vardell should be the other contenders. At full-back they will probably allow Brown and Foden to fight it out (I don't think Goode is a test class fullback, fine player that he is).

Elsewhere this is a real opportunity for Wilson to stake a claim for a starting berth. Hopefully Thomas will tour as I think the experience will do him good. Plenty of good young Hookers to choose from, and a chance for Mullan to turn his career around.

Both highly promising 7's should be involved, which is excellent, as should Vuniploa unless he needs a rest (he looks knackered to me). In the locks it would be good to have a look at some of Slater, Kitchener and Attwood. I'd take Kruis as the back-up to Wood at 6.

In the centres I'd like Twelvetrees to start every game at 12. At 13 Tompkins and Daly should fight it out. My 4th centre would be Eastmond - I don't see what we are going to learn about Barritt.

I wonder if Ford will tour?

As a wildcard at SH I'd take Robson (or even Fowles, who's been left out of the u20s).

Can understand all those tweaks Geordie, though I think I agree with Wendy that Kruis looks more like a lock to me. I wanted Haskell to go because I feel it's necessary for him to state more of a case to not be overtaken for an EPS position. If he needs a rest however I'd maybe look at Fearns as a more grunty backrow option. I similarily wanted Joseph to go to see if he deserves to keep his place once taken out of what has been a difficult club season. Eastmond looks like more of an OC to me as well, but Bath has been keen on playing him at 12 and Banahan at 13, would you be as interested in that configuration or do you want a more physical 12?

Fearns Robshaw
13 Matches 13
1 Tries 1
5 Points 5
0 Try assist 1
0 Kicks From Hand 0
28 Passes 79
1 Yellow cards 0
0 Red cards 0
111 Carries 142
230 Metres carried 157
2 Clean breaks 1
4 Offloads 9
11 Defenders beaten 11
130 Tackles 137
11 Missed tackles 9
12 Penalties conceded 7
4 Turnovers conceded 4
5 Line outs won own throw 16
0 Lineout steals 3

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Isn't Tom Johnson still in the EPS?

Ah, but he's old and Exe are a team that is just a bunch of average blokes that play well together ...

Aside from Johnson, which Exeter players would you include?

So whether we like the Lions squad or not aside, we can now pick our England squad for the summer!

Lions tourists - Vunipola, Hartley (somehow), Youngs, Cole, Parling, Croft, B Youngs, Farrell, Tuilagi

My rested players - Robshaw (he's played a hell of a lot of rugby lately) and Barritt - Ashton I'd drop so not really rested!

Launchberry you could argue for resting - give him a full preseason to recover plus fill out his frame, but on the other hand I'd love to see him next to Slater as a pairing so would take him even if he only plays one test for instance.

With that in mind I'd take the below squad:

Loosehead - Marler, Mullan - Nick Wood if he was fit
Hooker - Webber, Lindsay, Gray
Tighthead - Wilson, Thomas, PDJ - I'd be tempted to take a punt on Knight over PDJ however
Lock - Launchberry, Slater, Lawes, Attwood, Kitchener
Blindside - Wood, Haskell, Johnson - people can knock TJ but I rate him highly
Openside - Kvesic, Fraser
Number 8 - Morgan, Vunipola

Scrum half - Care, Wigglesworth, Simpson
Fly half - Flood, Burns
Inside centre - Twelvetrees, Allen - Barritt rested
Outside centre - Lowe, Tomkins, Daly - Joseph out of form give him a pre-season with Bath
Wing - Wade, May, Strettle
Full back - Brown, Goode, Foden

1.Marler 2.Webber 3.Wilson 4.Slater 5.Launchberry 6.Wood 7.Kvesic 8.Morgan
9.Care 10.Burns 11.May 12.Twelvetrees 13.Lowe 14.May 15.Brown
16.Lindsay 17.Mullan 18.Thomas 19.Lawes 20.Fraser 21.Wigglesworth 22.Flood 23.Daly

So for what it's worth that is my favoured squad and 23.

To clarify some of the selctions - Lowe over Tomkins is a very close thing and was in my mind decided by pace. I want to see fast running play and for that we need quick players. Brown is the best 15 we've got so let's pick him there! As for FH, even as a Tigers and Flood fan I can't argue he's looked inconsistent at best this season and the prospect of Care/Burns both offering a threat themselves with Lowe, Wade and May's pace outside them and Twelvetrees distribution is something I desperately want to see tested.

How does anyone rate Jack Yeandle, he has looked good since Whitehead has been injured.

I've only seen him play one game, but he seemed quite a lump. I would like to see him play a few more games before I comment any more. I was surprised to see he is only 23, looks like he's had a hard life!

Carlos, I know may is good but he isn't good enough to play both wings at the same time...wade perhaps ?

I like Lowe at 13, he's looked back to near his best as well recently. Sadly I think it's just us two that rate him.

If lancs is only taking a squad of 30 I expect he'll pick 17 forwards and 13 backs. If he's serious about looking at youth and fringe players then there are certain players I'd rest for one reason or another.

Props: Marler, Mullan, Wilson, Thomas
(Corbs to get a full preseason at Northampton. Gives Mullan a chance to prove he can step up.)

Hooker: Gray, Lindsay, Webber
(Gray does the basics very well while Lindsay deserves a chance after recent performances. Unlucky for Buchanan but give him another season and I think he'll be up there)

Lock: Launchbury, Lawes, Attwood, Slater
(Attwood and Slater give us that extra grunt. No lineout specialist but Launchbury and Lawes are adequate)

Backrow: Wood, Fearns/Robshaw, Kvesic, Fraser, Morgan, Vunipola
(Haskell needs a rest after almost 3 years continuous rugby. I'd be tempted to rest Robshaw. If so I think Fearns deserves a shot. Interesting to see the young pretenders fight it out for the 7 jersey)

Scrum half: Care, Dickson

Flyhalf: Burns, Flood

Centres: Twelvetrees, Allen, Tomkins, Daly
(We all know what Barritt can do so give Allen a chance to prove he's good enough for international rugby. Tough to choose between Lowe and Daly but Daly's versatility wins him the spot.)

Wing: May, Wade, Yarde
(Tough on the in form Strettle but he's 29 now and isn't the future. Also Varndell who's scoring tries for fun. Been impressed with Yarde and he's young so will only improve)

Full Back: Foden, Brown
(Foden will be eager to show he's still good enough)

My starting test 15 would be:
Marler
Gray
Wilson
Launchbury
Slater
Wood (c)
Fraser
Morgan

Care
Burns
Wade
Twelvetrees
Tomkins
May
Brown