Regional Rugby, NWQs, Development & The Way Forward

by thespreys Tue 09 Apr 2013, 4:18 pm

First topic message reminder :

Nice to see the DRAGONS continue to supply welsh players of the future,bit of a joke 4 non welsh in one swoop,its time to cut their funding as they do nothing for the welsh cause.

by Allty Tue 23 Apr 2013, 12:54 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Allty wrote:Its just one more nail in Welsh regional rugby's coffin.

The original regional concept is no more

Not sure where you are coming from, surely the worse nail in the coffin would be keeping hold of players and over stocking your squad in one position at the cost of the rest of the squad?

So the 20 or so outsiders in the regional squads dont count?

SS The regional concept was to share our talent across the regions not to see quality players on benches or stacked up in one region

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 23 Apr 2013, 1:35 pm

Allty wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Allty wrote:Its just one more nail in Welsh regional rugby's coffin.

The original regional concept is no more

Not sure where you are coming from, surely the worse nail in the coffin would be keeping hold of players and over stocking your squad in one position at the cost of the rest of the squad?

So the 20 or so outsiders in the regional squads dont count?

SS The regional concept was to share our talent across the regions not to see quality players on benches or stacked up in one region

So what region need a scrum half then? The Ospreys have a full backline made up of them, the Blues have the current international bench warmer, and the Dragons have Richie Rees, Jon & Wayne Evans.

The NWQ limits are being dropped for the coming season, and is not differencating between capped and time-serving players. SO the number of 'outsiders' (as you worded it) will be reduced the coming season, and reduced further the following season.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 23 Apr 2013, 1:39 pm

Allty, every time one of the regions releases a Welsh player, should the other regions try and sign him regardless of whether they need him? In other words, should they sign him just because he's Welsh and in danger of leaving the country to ply his trade?

I really would appreciate an answer on this, and a suggestion of a) where the money's going to come from, and b) how it would benefit the player who's going to be benchwarming all season - albeit on a Welsh bench.

by Allty Tue 23 Apr 2013, 1:55 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Allty, every time one of the regions releases a Welsh player, should the other regions try and sign him regardless of whether they need him? In other words, should they sign him just because he's Welsh and in danger of leaving the country to ply his trade?

I really would appreciate an answer on this, and a suggestion of a) where the money's going to come from, and b) how it would benefit the player who's going to be benchwarming all season - albeit on a Welsh bench.

The talent should be spread out as needed and bench warming will be far less than it has been. The players were supposed to be shared out amongst the Prem clubs but the regional management put an end to that

The money has already been squandered on the NWQ's and I like you have no idea where the new money is to be found.

As I said the nails are going itno the regional coffins at some rate.

Cardiff & Swansea will may be the only survivors.

Sadly Gwent with its childlike club regional arguments will be in trouble first

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 23 Apr 2013, 2:00 pm

With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

by Allty Tue 23 Apr 2013, 2:25 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking

by Jhamer25 Tue 23 Apr 2013, 2:28 pm

It's actually bugging me know how people are taking good signings like talei, barclay and turning it into bad news.
The fact is wales is the smallest country out of all the big rugby nations in europe. We have great acadamies who are creating great talent. Yet some people seem to think that we can pull out great players from the ground in Wales and make htem all internationals.
Can any region make a good signing?
Because wven when blues signed gethin and matthew people had the stupid idea that they were bad signings as they would be blocking the way for up and coming talents in wales. Really it's a joke
Talei even though a shock has been their best signing yet and will be a great player to have in the team. With Lydiate going what other good young played do the dragons have coming through Jevon groves ha. And yes iauen joens but 19 and had years left of devlopment.
And know people say barclay is a waist of time because we all ready have the like of john edwards, josh turnball, dan thomas and richie pugh who can cover. Yea becuase thats been working so well for us all season. Dan is still 19 and when barclay's contract is up after 3 years he will still only be 23. Barclay is going to help bring through dan, can't people see that. I would like john edwards, dan and john barclay on our books for next season to cover 7. I dont think we should renew turnballs contract but it looks like they are not renewing john's who would be our second best option, much better 7 than turnball and it's not like we need turnball to cover 6 with shingler, mccusker,earle,price, barclay.

by Stone Motif Tue 23 Apr 2013, 2:36 pm

Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking

Complete and utter nonsense.

by Guest Tue 23 Apr 2013, 2:46 pm

Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Allty, every time one of the regions releases a Welsh player, should the other regions try and sign him regardless of whether they need him? In other words, should they sign him just because he's Welsh and in danger of leaving the country to ply his trade?

I really would appreciate an answer on this, and a suggestion of a) where the money's going to come from, and b) how it would benefit the player who's going to be benchwarming all season - albeit on a Welsh bench.

The talent should be spread out as needed and bench warming will be far less than it has been. The players were supposed to be shared out amongst the Prem clubs but the regional management put an end to that

The money has already been squandered on the NWQ's and I like you have no idea where the new money is to be found.

As I said the nails are going itno the regional coffins at some rate.

Cardiff & Swansea will may be the only survivors.

Sadly Gwent with its childlike club regional arguments will be in trouble first

What club regional arguements. You really are tiresome, old man or not.

by Allty Tue 23 Apr 2013, 2:49 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking
Complete and utter nonsense.

How can a Welsh player block another Welsh player?

Maybe you just do not understand the structure of teams and the development of players. Its not a difficult concept or maybe you never heard of second teams

by Allty Tue 23 Apr 2013, 2:52 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Allty, every time one of the regions releases a Welsh player, should the other regions try and sign him regardless of whether they need him? In other words, should they sign him just because he's Welsh and in danger of leaving the country to ply his trade?

I really would appreciate an answer on this, and a suggestion of a) where the money's going to come from, and b) how it would benefit the player who's going to be benchwarming all season - albeit on a Welsh bench.

The talent should be spread out as needed and bench warming will be far less than it has been. The players were supposed to be shared out amongst the Prem clubs but the regional management put an end to that

The money has already been squandered on the NWQ's and I like you have no idea where the new money is to be found.

As I said the nails are going itno the regional coffins at some rate.

Cardiff & Swansea will may be the only survivors.

Sadly Gwent with its childlike club regional arguments will be in trouble first

What club regional arguements. You really are tiresome, old man or not.

Ebbw v Newport for starters. Maybe you are to young to have seen the fiasco when Ebbw threw Dai Watkins etc out of their ground, The refusal of Gwent to support a team with Newport in its name The refusal of Newport to accept simply The Dragons. Childish beyond belief

by Stone Motif Tue 23 Apr 2013, 2:56 pm

Allty wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking
Complete and utter nonsense.

How can a Welsh player block another Welsh player?

Maybe you just do not understand the structure of teams and the development of players. Its not a difficult concept or maybe you never heard of second teams

What you know about rugby can fit on the back of a postage stamp. Your argument is basically that young players just need to be thrown in en masse to play and they will be alright. Apart from the gulf of difference between running an under 9's team, where this approach works, and running a professional rugby outfit, if this is the case it matters not who does the blocking, only that blocking occurs, which as has been demonstrated to you, will always be a factor with four regional teams. As for your xenephobic and irrational views around imported players, good luck with that one, I'm not going to argue with someone who cannot see sense.

by thebluesmancometh Tue 23 Apr 2013, 2:56 pm

Allty wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Allty, every time one of the regions releases a Welsh player, should the other regions try and sign him regardless of whether they need him? In other words, should they sign him just because he's Welsh and in danger of leaving the country to ply his trade?

I really would appreciate an answer on this, and a suggestion of a) where the money's going to come from, and b) how it would benefit the player who's going to be benchwarming all season - albeit on a Welsh bench.

The talent should be spread out as needed and bench warming will be far less than it has been. The players were supposed to be shared out amongst the Prem clubs but the regional management put an end to that

The money has already been squandered on the NWQ's and I like you have no idea where the new money is to be found.

As I said the nails are going itno the regional coffins at some rate.

Cardiff & Swansea will may be the only survivors.

Sadly Gwent with its childlike club regional arguments will be in trouble first

What club regional arguements. You really are tiresome, old man or not.

Ebbw v Newport for starters. Maybe you are to young to have seen the fiasco when Ebbw threw Dai Watkins etc out of their ground, The refusal of Gwent to support a team with Newport in its name The refusal of Newport to accept simply The Dragons. Childish beyond belief

Allty are you actually a rugby fan???

Your baffling, of all the four regions right now Dragons and Scarlets are most settled, Blues have had real problems with Ponty and the O's were having real issues with Neath, the Ebbw issues were over about 10 years ago, as quickly as they started.

Why you dislike the Dragons so much I do not know!!

Any Barclay to Scarlets... clap

Barcley is an actual openside, something the Scarlets have been missing for a while, with options like Shinglar, Turnbull and Mccusker added to him the Scarlets back row is starting to looke pretty good!! Dan Thomas will find it a very good experience to learn from an int openside too, similarly how Warbs did with Williams.

by Stone Motif Tue 23 Apr 2013, 3:00 pm

Allty wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Allty, every time one of the regions releases a Welsh player, should the other regions try and sign him regardless of whether they need him? In other words, should they sign him just because he's Welsh and in danger of leaving the country to ply his trade?

I really would appreciate an answer on this, and a suggestion of a) where the money's going to come from, and b) how it would benefit the player who's going to be benchwarming all season - albeit on a Welsh bench.

The talent should be spread out as needed and bench warming will be far less than it has been. The players were supposed to be shared out amongst the Prem clubs but the regional management put an end to that

The money has already been squandered on the NWQ's and I like you have no idea where the new money is to be found.

As I said the nails are going itno the regional coffins at some rate.

Cardiff & Swansea will may be the only survivors.

Sadly Gwent with its childlike club regional arguments will be in trouble first

What club regional arguements. You really are tiresome, old man or not.

Ebbw v Newport for starters. Maybe you are to young to have seen the fiasco when Ebbw threw Dai Watkins etc out of their ground, The refusal of Gwent to support a team with Newport in its name The refusal of Newport to accept simply The Dragons. Childish beyond belief

More fantasy. That Bedwas what are in the Prem play-offs, would you say the Dragons fringe/academy players they've had first dibs on all season, would you say they've been a. Instrumental or b. Instrumental in achieving that?

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 23 Apr 2013, 3:36 pm

Allty wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking
Complete and utter nonsense.

How can a Welsh player block another Welsh player?

Maybe you just do not understand the structure of teams and the development of players. Its not a difficult concept or maybe you never heard of second teams

Forgive me, Allty, but perhaps you just don't understand the laws of physics. A Welsh player takes up a squad place in the same way as a Fijian or a Tongan or an Eskimo. Welsh players aren't made of air.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 23 Apr 2013, 3:37 pm

Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking

Total nonesence. If a player is playing in a starting position they are blocking another player playing. SO in the case of the Scarlets the signing of John Barclay is blocking Dan Evans where as the selection of the aging Jon Edwards was not?

I am starting to worry that you have a bit of a thing against anyone who is not a pure blood.

by LordDowlais Tue 23 Apr 2013, 5:09 pm

I think the signing of John Barcley is good for the Scarlets, they have actually signed a player who is better than they have and has a wealth of international experience, I have heared a lot of positive thinsgs about Dan Thomas and it looks as though he is going to be something special, if he has John Barcley to aspire to then watching him week in week out can only do him good. It's these type's of NWQ players that I like to see within our regions. Not players like Tibaldi or Burton or Campese Ma'Afua.

by Cardiff Dave Tue 23 Apr 2013, 5:13 pm

Allty wrote:
How can a Welsh player block another Welsh player?

Maybe you just do not understand the structure of teams and the development of players. Its not a difficult concept or maybe you never heard of second teams

Allty mun, put your teeth in and have a read of this;

“I was with the Cardiff club team and in the Blues Academy,” recalled Rhys Gill.
“I wasn’t really getting much game-time. I was behind Gethin and John Yapp.
“I had a couple of games for the Blues, but they said they didn’t want me. I was looking for a full-time job when Saracens came in for me.
“If I had stayed in Wales I could have still been playing in the Welsh Premiership."

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/saracens-star-rhys-gill-reveals-2036976

by Stone Motif Tue 23 Apr 2013, 5:52 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I think the signing of John Barcley is good for the Scarlets, they have actually signed a player who is better than they have and has a wealth of international experience, I have heared a lot of positive thinsgs about Dan Thomas and it looks as though he is going to be something special, if he has John Barcley to aspire to then watching him week in week out can only do him good. It's these type's of NWQ players that I like to see within our regions. Not players like Tibaldi or Burton or Campese Ma'Afua.

penny or bun, I just can't choose. I know I'll have both.

by Allty Tue 23 Apr 2013, 6:22 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Allty wrote:
How can a Welsh player block another Welsh player?

Maybe you just do not understand the structure of teams and the development of players. Its not a difficult concept or maybe you never heard of second teams

Allty mun, put your teeth in and have a read of this;

“I was with the Cardiff club team and in the Blues Academy,” recalled Rhys Gill.
“I wasn’t really getting much game-time. I was behind Gethin and John Yapp.
“I had a couple of games for the Blues, but they said they didn’t want me. I was looking for a full-time job when Saracens came in for me.
“If I had stayed in Wales I could have still been playing in the Welsh Premiership."

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/saracens-star-rhys-gill-reveals-2036976

I dont have a problem with that whatsoever. He has 2 welsh players in front of him and clearly needed to move on.

The shame is that despite a shortage of good props there was no place for him in another region.

My point is not about displacing Welsh players which has been the case since rugby started it is about importing players.

by Allty Tue 23 Apr 2013, 6:36 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Allty wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking
Complete and utter nonsense.

How can a Welsh player block another Welsh player?

Maybe you just do not understand the structure of teams and the development of players. Its not a difficult concept or maybe you never heard of second teams

What you know about rugby can fit on the back of a postage stamp. Your argument is basically that young players just need to be thrown in en masse to play and they will be alright. Apart from the gulf of difference between running an under 9's team, where this approach works, and running a professional rugby outfit, if this is the case it matters not who does the blocking, only that blocking occurs, which as has been demonstrated to you, will always be a factor with four regional teams. As for your xenephobic and irrational views around imported players, good luck with that one, I'm not going to argue with someone who cannot see sense.

You have a very a sad and immature way of discussing things.

Please do not tell me what my argument is. That you fail to understand my points are your problems and not mine.

by Allty Tue 23 Apr 2013, 6:39 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking

Total nonesence. If a player is playing in a starting position they are blocking another player playing. SO in the case of the Scarlets the signing of John Barclay is blocking Dan Evans where as the selection of the aging Jon Edwards was not?

I am starting to worry that you have a bit of a thing against anyone who is not a pure blood.

Think about it. How can a Welsh player block another who is a lesser player than him.

Your argument seems to suggest that Halfpenny is blocking another Welsh full back who is not as good as him. A very strange view.

by LordDowlais Tue 23 Apr 2013, 7:11 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I think the signing of John Barcley is good for the Scarlets, they have actually signed a player who is better than they have and has a wealth of international experience, I have heared a lot of positive thinsgs about Dan Thomas and it looks as though he is going to be something special, if he has John Barcley to aspire to then watching him week in week out can only do him good. It's these type's of NWQ players that I like to see within our regions. Not players like Tibaldi or Burton or Campese Ma'Afua.
penny or bun, I just can't choose. I know I'll have both.

Stone, seriously, why don,t you just bugger off, I do not need your arrogant, pig headed comments, I really do not like to rant like this but you just keep picking and picking and I am starting to have a complete boobie full of you. Now go away.

by Stone Motif Tue 23 Apr 2013, 7:16 pm

Allty wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Allty wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking
Complete and utter nonsense.

How can a Welsh player block another Welsh player?

Maybe you just do not understand the structure of teams and the development of players. Its not a difficult concept or maybe you never heard of second teams

What you know about rugby can fit on the back of a postage stamp. Your argument is basically that young players just need to be thrown in en masse to play and they will be alright. Apart from the gulf of difference between running an under 9's team, where this approach works, and running a professional rugby outfit, if this is the case it matters not who does the blocking, only that blocking occurs, which as has been demonstrated to you, will always be a factor with four regional teams. As for your xenephobic and irrational views around imported players, good luck with that one, I'm not going to argue with someone who cannot see sense.

You have a very a sad and immature way of discussing things.

Please do not tell me what my argument is. That you fail to understand my points are your problems and not mine.

I'm not telling you what your argument is, I'm telling you it's tripe.

by Stone Motif Tue 23 Apr 2013, 7:45 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I think the signing of John Barcley is good for the Scarlets, they have actually signed a player who is better than they have and has a wealth of international experience, I have heared a lot of positive thinsgs about Dan Thomas and it looks as though he is going to be something special, if he has John Barcley to aspire to then watching him week in week out can only do him good. It's these type's of NWQ players that I like to see within our regions. Not players like Tibaldi or Burton or Campese Ma'Afua.
penny or bun, I just can't choose. I know I'll have both.

Stone, seriously, why don,t you just bugger off, I do not need your arrogant, pig headed comments, I really do not like to rant like this but you just keep picking and picking and I am starting to have a complete boobie full of you. Now go away.

Get her!

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 23 Apr 2013, 7:47 pm

Allty wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking

Total nonesence. If a player is playing in a starting position they are blocking another player playing. SO in the case of the Scarlets the signing of John Barclay is blocking Dan Evans where as the selection of the aging Jon Edwards was not?

I am starting to worry that you have a bit of a thing against anyone who is not a pure blood.

Think about it. How can a Welsh player block another who is a lesser player than him.

Your argument seems to suggest that Halfpenny is blocking another Welsh full back who is not as good as him. A very strange view.

I can not make my mind up on whether you are genuinely blinkered or just bored and wanting to argue with the world for something to do

There are only so many starting shirts in the regions so whoever js currently the first choice in their region is technically blocking any other player from playing there. It is up to the player being 'blocked' to either displaced the current encumbent or to find another place to ply their trade or to settle for playing second fiddle.

In the context of this thread, player transfers, Tavis Knoyle was in a four man battle for the starting scrum half slot, and has seen very little game time falling to third or fourth choice, so moving makes sense. Dan Newton is also in a similar possition where his path is 'blocked' by fellow welshmen, again fourth or fifth choice in his favoured position.

Then there is the signing of John Barclay who is, at the moment, a better player than Dan Thomas. Seeing as Barclay is likely to be called up during the Autumn and Six Nations, Dan Thomas will get game time in the Rabo during those windows and if he improves he will displace Barclay.

If the regions wish to be competitive in the league they need two decent players, minimum, for each shirt, and IMO to compete in europe they need probably three decent players for each shirt. So stockpiling in one position (scrum half, centre and fly half for the Scarlets) is not good for the region, player, or the national side.

by Cardiff Dave Tue 23 Apr 2013, 7:50 pm

Allty wrote:

I dont have a problem with that whatsoever. He has 2 welsh players in front of him and clearly needed to move on.

The shame is that despite a shortage of good props there was no place for him in another region.

My point is not about displacing Welsh players which has been the case since rugby started it is about importing players.

So in a nutshell, you're not in favour of foreigners playing in Wales, full stop?

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 23 Apr 2013, 7:51 pm

Stone - cut out the needless barbs and pointless jibes at others. They are as entitled to post their views without being insulted or ridiculed as you are.

by Stone Motif Tue 23 Apr 2013, 7:59 pm

Eh? Who've I told to bugger off then?

by LordDowlais Tue 23 Apr 2013, 8:01 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Allty wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking

Total nonesence. If a player is playing in a starting position they are blocking another player playing. SO in the case of the Scarlets the signing of John Barclay is blocking Dan Evans where as the selection of the aging Jon Edwards was not?

I am starting to worry that you have a bit of a thing against anyone who is not a pure blood.

Think about it. How can a Welsh player block another who is a lesser player than him.

Your argument seems to suggest that Halfpenny is blocking another Welsh full back who is not as good as him. A very strange view.

I can not make my mind up on whether you are genuinely blinkered or just bored and wanting to argue with the world for something to do

There are only so many starting shirts in the regions so whoever js currently the first choice in their region is technically blocking any other player from playing there. It is up to the player being 'blocked' to either displaced the current encumbent or to find another place to ply their trade or to settle for playing second fiddle.

In the context of this thread, player transfers, Tavis Knoyle was in a four man battle for the starting scrum half slot, and has seen very little game time falling to third or fourth choice, so moving makes sense. Dan Newton is also in a similar possition where his path is 'blocked' by fellow welshmen, again fourth or fifth choice in his favoured position.

Then there is the signing of John Barclay who is, at the moment, a better player than Dan Thomas. Seeing as Barclay is likely to be called up during the Autumn and Six Nations, Dan Thomas will get game time in the Rabo during those windows and if he improves he will displace Barclay.

If the regions wish to be competitive in the league they need two decent players, minimum, for each shirt, and IMO to compete in europe they need probably three decent players for each shirt. So stockpiling in one position (scrum half, centre and fly half for the Scarlets) is not good for the region, player, or the national side.

If this happens then that is what the triumph of the signing will be, forget if Barcley scores the winning try in the HC final, the best thing that could happen is Dan Thomas emulating him and keeping him out of the side, for this to happen Dan Thomas will be one of the best sevens in the NH and this is what I want us to sign NWQ players for, not for plugging in holes with players who can "do a job". We need to be very selective with our NWQ players and for me John Barcley is in the same mould as Tommy Bowe, Tia Tia, Marty Holah, Regan King,Xavier Rush, Ben Blair or even going back further, Gary Teichmann, Percy Montgommery, these types of players all have done more for Welsh rugby other than just being there when the internationals are away, these players command respect as they have earned it, and they bring more to the game as the youngsters they are training with look at these players and try to emulate them, what young player wants to emulate a NWQ player they are already better than. Ale

by Stone Motif Tue 23 Apr 2013, 8:56 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
If this happens then that is what the triumph of the signing will be, forget if Barcley scores the winning try in the HC final, the best thing that could happen is Dan Thomas emulating him and keeping him out of the side, for this to happen Dan Thomas will be one of the best sevens in the NH and this is what I want us to sign NWQ players for, not for plugging in holes with players who can "do a job".

I'd be interested in your thoughts on squad rotation, injury cover etc given you think competition for places only applies to certain players.

LordDowlais wrote: We need to be very selective with our NWQ players and for me John Barcley is in the same mould as Tommy Bowe, Tia Tia, Marty Holah, Regan King,Xavier Rush, Ben Blair or even going back further, Gary Teichmann, Percy Montgommery, these types of players all have done more for Welsh rugby other than just being there when the internationals are away,

The financial reality the regions operate under has changed considerably, not least due to the money on offer in France and the lack of support for the WRU. In all likelihood the Scarlets only afforded Barclay because they sold North.

LordDowlais wrote: these players command respect as they have earned it, and they bring more to the game as the youngsters they are training with look at these players and try to emulate them, what young player wants to emulate a NWQ player they are already better than.

Is Nathan Buck better than Taz Chaparro? Is Josh Tyler better than Mueller? Is Ieuan Jones better than Talei? Stef may well be better than Burton in time but you'd be much more confident in him than most Dragons fans who've actually watched him play to make that claim at the moment.

by LordDowlais Tue 23 Apr 2013, 9:37 pm

To cover your first point, when have I ever said that competition for places only applies to certain players ? Also squad rotation has bugger all to do with it, Barcley is arguably one of the best sevens in Britain and Ireland, it can only be good for Dan Thomas to learn from him, if he emulates him and gets ahead of him in the pecking order, then that would mean that Dan Thomas could be held in as high regard as Barcley which can only be good for Welsh rugby and the Scarlets, until a French club come sniffing around.

Secondly, weather the Scarlets have sold North or not, the fact is they have improved their back row by signing Barcley, instead of signing somebody none of us know sod all about.

Thirdly, what do we know about Taz Chaparro ? I do not know anything about him, except he was some project in France at tighthead that did not go to plan, at least I know Nathan Buck has potential, what the bloody hell can he learn from Chaparro though ? Mueller has hardley played this season by all accounts, but the same goes for him, what does he bring to the table ? Is he better than Nimmo ? Please do not get me started on Burton, all he brings is a higher kicking percentage with him, Burton will not improve the Dragons and nothing you can say will change my mind on that if they wanted experience they could have signed a better player than him, perhaps Sweeney or even Gavin Henson or anybody, Steven Donald is being released by Bath isnt he.

by Allty Tue 23 Apr 2013, 9:59 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Allty wrote:

I dont have a problem with that whatsoever. He has 2 welsh players in front of him and clearly needed to move on.

The shame is that despite a shortage of good props there was no place for him in another region.

My point is not about displacing Welsh players which has been the case since rugby started it is about importing players.

So in a nutshell, you're not in favour of foreigners playing in Wales, full stop?

Cd I'd rather see regions with Welsh players than imports. I have nothing against the individual player and I'm certainly not a person who discriminates by birth.

As much as would like to see the 3 year rule become at least 5 I have no problem with the player becoming WQ

I must add some nay many of the recent imports are poor to say the least.

by mikey_philVIII Tue 23 Apr 2013, 10:08 pm

Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:With four regions, there's only so much spreading out you can do, even if you take out those horrible foreigners. Take it down to three regions, or two, and there'll be even fewer places.

You can't have a conveyor belt and then block off the end of it. Some players have to leave to make way for the players coming through.

Knoyle?? ....... A Welsh player does not really block another Welsh player. Its imports that have caused much of the blocking

Allty I could understand if this was Jonathan Davies we were talking about, but we aren't. We are talking about the worst scrum half in Wales! I'm over the moon because I rate Gareth Davies as a much better player. You're clueless if you think the worst scrum half who has never earned a Wales cap is a nail in the coffin.

With regard to your other post, NZ have Fijian, Tongan and Samoan players in their teams, highlanders even have a Japanese player. South Africa teams have players from neighbouring countries like Namibia, etc. Now I'm not sure what point you were actually trying to make. Yes they're the best models but when you share a continent with France the model isn't much good.

by Allty Tue 23 Apr 2013, 10:12 pm

Knoyle is just an example Mike.

We will never know how many potential journeymen have given up.

I should re-mention I'm not only referring to super stars in the making. I'm referring to all potential pro players.

by LordDowlais Wed 24 Apr 2013, 8:06 am

Stone, you are very anoying. You disect my posts to arrange them to stregnthen your points, Barcley is a proven player, I never said Meuller was crap, I siad he has hardly played, but he is still good enough for the Dragons though, and Burton can only teach the young players to kick it more.

by Stone Motif Wed 24 Apr 2013, 8:45 am

LordDowlais wrote:Stone, you are very anoying. You disect my posts to arrange them to stregnthen your points, Barcley is a proven player, I never said Meuller was crap, I siad he has hardly played, but he is still good enough for the Dragons though, and Burton can only teach the young players to kick it more.

by Stone Motif Wed 24 Apr 2013, 8:46 am

LordDowlais wrote:Stone, you are very anoying. You disect my posts to arrange them to stregnthen your points, Barcley is a proven player, I never said Meuller was crap, I siad he has hardly played, but he is still good enough for the Dragons though, and Burton can only teach the young players to kick it more.

So if you post something that is patently crap and I quote it, that's my fault is it? And you've got the cheek to call others one eyed...

by pioden gorllewin Wed 24 Apr 2013, 8:49 am

think there is an element of risk on whoever any the of the welsh regions sign. in 2008 the scarlets sign 13 capped all black lock simon maling. we were overjoyed we signed a former all black....bad players don't tend to have 13 all black caps hey? however his heart wasn't in it at all, literally refused to leave the physio bench. even when the physio said he was fine to play. compare that to the unknown joe snyman we signed this summer from the kings. think he was hardly known in his own country, let alone wales. but the guy has been a revelation, and quickly become a fans favorite. He's hungry to succeed and embraced west wales and the region.don't think there is any hard or fast rules on what will make a successful signing. only time will tell, and that will probably be after their 1st season of bedding in.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 24 Apr 2013, 8:51 am

I agree with that, Pioden. What I find bizarre is posters declaring a player's rubbish just because they've never heard of him. It reminds me of an episode of 'In it to Win it' when a contestant dismissed the right answer on the grounds that he'd never heard of it.

by LordDowlais Wed 24 Apr 2013, 9:03 am

Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Stone, you are very anoying. You disect my posts to arrange them to stregnthen your points, Barcley is a proven player, I never said Meuller was crap, I siad he has hardly played, but he is still good enough for the Dragons though, and Burton can only teach the young players to kick it more.
So if you post something that is patently crap and I quote it, that's my fault is it? And you've got the cheek to call others one eyed...

Ok then what exactly is incorrect about my post ?

by Allty Wed 24 Apr 2013, 9:55 am

Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Stone, you are very anoying. You disect my posts to arrange them to stregnthen your points, Barcley is a proven player, I never said Meuller was crap, I siad he has hardly played, but he is still good enough for the Dragons though, and Burton can only teach the young players to kick it more.
So if you post something that is patently crap and I quote it, that's my fault is it? And you've got the cheek to call others one eyed...

Why do you consider yourself to be in a position to judge others posts.

I happen to think your views are biased and blinkered and your replies usually driven by your hatred of an individual in an organisation.

It seems any poster who has a differing view to your own is ridiculed in a childish tantrum.

When posters lower themselves to ridicule others their credibility and argument is destroyed.

by LordDowlais Wed 24 Apr 2013, 10:16 am

Anyway, lets try and not spoil pioden's thread, he is actually doing something worth while on here and keeping us all up to date with the in's and out's of Welsh regional rugby, cheers Pioden, keep up the good work. Ale

by Guest Wed 24 Apr 2013, 10:29 am

Allty wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Stone, you are very anoying. You disect my posts to arrange them to stregnthen your points, Barcley is a proven player, I never said Meuller was crap, I siad he has hardly played, but he is still good enough for the Dragons though, and Burton can only teach the young players to kick it more.
So if you post something that is patently crap and I quote it, that's my fault is it? And you've got the cheek to call others one eyed...

Why do you consider yourself to be in a position to judge others posts.

I happen to think your views are biased and blinkered and your replies usually driven by your hatred of an individual in an organisation.

It seems any poster who has a differing view to your own is ridiculed in a childish tantrum.

When posters lower themselves to ridicule others their credibility and argument is destroyed.

Whilst Stone has a different way of telling you that you're wrong, it is more than him telling you and Dowlais that. In turn, your views could be classed as biased and blinkered, as neither of you are able to put forward a case as to why any of our signings are doomed to fail.

What winds me up about this site, is that people are allowed to put forward throwaway comments like Dragons are signing rubbish NWQ and we are blocking young players in Gwent, but I've seen little in the way of evidence that we are. It's about the same as people making rash predictions like Dragons will finish bottom of the Rabies next season (with little idea of who is signing what).

by Cardiff Dave Wed 24 Apr 2013, 10:38 am

Allty wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Allty wrote:

I dont have a problem with that whatsoever. He has 2 welsh players in front of him and clearly needed to move on.

The shame is that despite a shortage of good props there was no place for him in another region.

My point is not about displacing Welsh players which has been the case since rugby started it is about importing players.

So in a nutshell, you're not in favour of foreigners playing in Wales, full stop?

Cd I'd rather see regions with Welsh players than imports. I have nothing against the individual player and I'm certainly not a person who discriminates by birth.

As much as would like to see the 3 year rule become at least 5 I have no problem with the player becoming WQ

I must add some nay many of the recent imports are poor to say the least.

Never been an issue for me and from memory, neither was it for any other Cardiff supporter over the years. We had moans a plenty about many things, but a player's nationality was never one of them. A competitive team is what we wanted. Seems to me that the majority of those who are getting their knickers in a twist over the number of NWQ players are the same people that do not support a particular region.
Also, if as you say the recent imports are poor then surely it would be relatively easy for a Welsh player to displace them. If they can't then maybe they should take a good look at themselves in the mirror.
Glad I got that last bit in.

by Cardiff Dave Wed 24 Apr 2013, 10:41 am

Risca Rev wrote:
Allty wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Stone, you are very anoying. You disect my posts to arrange them to stregnthen your points, Barcley is a proven player, I never said Meuller was crap, I siad he has hardly played, but he is still good enough for the Dragons though, and Burton can only teach the young players to kick it more.
So if you post something that is patently crap and I quote it, that's my fault is it? And you've got the cheek to call others one eyed...

Why do you consider yourself to be in a position to judge others posts.

I happen to think your views are biased and blinkered and your replies usually driven by your hatred of an individual in an organisation.

It seems any poster who has a differing view to your own is ridiculed in a childish tantrum.

When posters lower themselves to ridicule others their credibility and argument is destroyed.

Whilst Stone has a different way of telling you that you're wrong, it is more than him telling you and Dowlais that. In turn, your views could be classed as biased and blinkered, as neither of you are able to put forward a case as to why any of our signings are doomed to fail.

What winds me up about this site, is that people are allowed to put forward throwaway comments like Dragons are signing rubbish NWQ and we are blocking young players in Gwent, but I've seen little in the way of evidence that we are. It's about the same as people making rash predictions like Dragons will finish bottom of the Rabies next season (with little idea of who is signing what).

Well said.

by Cardiff Dave Wed 24 Apr 2013, 10:44 am

LordDowlais wrote:Stone, you are very anoying. You disect my posts to arrange them to stregnthen your points, Barcley is a proven player, I never said Meuller was crap, I siad he has hardly played, but he is still good enough for the Dragons though, and Burton can only teach the young players to kick it more.

Good edit

by LordDowlais Wed 24 Apr 2013, 10:48 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Stone, you are very anoying. You disect my posts to arrange them to stregnthen your points, Barcley is a proven player, I never said Meuller was crap, I siad he has hardly played, but he is still good enough for the Dragons though, and Burton can only teach the young players to kick it more.

Good edit

I wrote my origonal reply at too early in the morning, I had my cup of coffee and came around and realised that certain things should not be written on here and as a result changed it, I was hoping nobody saw it though. Whistle

by LordDowlais Wed 24 Apr 2013, 10:56 am

What has happened is the Dragons fans on here, Stone Motif in particular, has taken what has been said too personally and a direct attack at the Dragons. Because of this the Dragons are comming under a lot more scrutiny as they would normally, I am pointing my finger at all the regions for singing below par NWQ players, like the Ospreys signing Tibaldi a 32 year old scrum half when half their back line is made up of Welsh scrum halfs, I must be the only person who looks at this and views it as below par players using up the finances of already skint regions. I just think at times that the money could be better spent. I do not need to be told that I am talking tripe, or what I know about rugby can be written on the back of a postage stemp ect. If you look at my debate history on this thread not once have I insulted anybody, yet others on here are quick to rubbish anything I say, and call me clueless or words to that affect, it is uncalled for.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 24 Apr 2013, 10:57 am

I haven't heard any more about the regions meeting the full board of the WRU. Is it possible that the executive are preventing the meeting going ahead?

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