Regional Rugby, NWQs, Development & The Way Forward

First topic message reminder :

Nice to see the DRAGONS continue to supply welsh players of the future,bit of a joke 4 non welsh in one swoop,its time to cut their funding as they do nothing for the welsh cause.

[quote="Cardiff Dave"][quote="Allty"][quote="Luckless Pedestrian"][quote="Allty"]I do not think NWQ's are of use to Welsh rugby.

They may have been some years back and when they were top quality but the players being brought in now are a waste. [/quote]

Every single one?

Have you seen them all play to be in a position to judge, and if so, have you seen domestic players on the market who are better?[/quote]

Whilst the NWQ's are in place there is clearly very little opportunity to see potential regional players perform.

[b]Having watched just about every game played by the regions since their start[/b] I just have to say yes I have seen the NWQ's in action.
[/quote]

I don't believe ewe.[/quote]

When you get to 70 and have had many moons of happy retirement and enjoy sport and can afford the time you can do these things CD.

I hope it happens for you.

Allty wrote:I do not think NWQ's are of use to Welsh rugby.

They may have been some years back and when they were top quality but the players being brought in now are a waste.

In reply to Griff I was told that the academies are producing new talent every year.

I assume you mean Team Wales.

Allty wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Allty wrote:I do not think NWQ's are of use to Welsh rugby.

They may have been some years back and when they were top quality but the players being brought in now are a waste.

Every single one?

Have you seen them all play to be in a position to judge, and if so, have you seen domestic players on the market who are better?

Whilst the NWQ's are in place there is clearly very little opportunity to see potential regional players perform.

Having watched just about every game played by the regions since their start I just have to say yes I have seen the NWQ's in action.

I don't believe ewe.

When you get to 70 and have had many moons of happy retirement and enjoy sport and can afford the time you can do these things CD.

I hope it happens for you.

How could you have watched just about every game though? You're making it up as you go along I reckon.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Allty wrote:I do not think NWQ's are of use to Welsh rugby.

They may have been some years back and when they were top quality but the players being brought in now are a waste.

Every single one?

Have you seen them all play to be in a position to judge, and if so, have you seen domestic players on the market who are better?

I wouldn't waste your time on him LP, His styles are getting very similar to certain someone

Yes they are now you mention it. Spooky.

Mightily bored of this.
Like it or not, NWQs will continue to play a part in our game in some shape or form, whatever. They are not the problem.

[quote="Cardiff Dave"][quote="Allty"][quote="Cardiff Dave"][quote="Allty"][quote="Luckless Pedestrian"][quote="Allty"]I do not think NWQ's are of use to Welsh rugby.

They may have been some years back and when they were top quality but the players being brought in now are a waste. [/quote]

Every single one?

Have you seen them all play to be in a position to judge, and if so, have you seen domestic players on the market who are better?[/quote]

Whilst the NWQ's are in place there is clearly very little opportunity to see potential regional players perform.

[b]Having watched just about every game played by the regions since their start[/b] I just have to say yes I have seen the NWQ's in action.
[/quote]

I don't believe ewe.[/quote]

When you get to 70 and have had many moons of happy retirement and enjoy sport and can afford the time you can do these things CD.

I hope it happens for you.[/quote]

How could you have watched just about every game though? You're making it up as you go along I reckon.[/quote]

I said just about every game and I should have said Televised

[quote="Risca Rev"][quote="thebluesmancometh"][quote="Luckless Pedestrian"][quote="Allty"]I do not think NWQ's are of use to Welsh rugby.

They may have been some years back and when they were top quality but the players being brought in now are a waste. [/quote]

Every single one?

Have you seen them all play to be in a position to judge, and if so, have you seen domestic players on the market who are better?[/quote]

I wouldn't waste your time on him LP, His styles are getting very similar to certain someone [/quote]

Yes they are now you mention it. Spooky.[/quote]

Name names guys.

"The Way Forward"? - a good start would be calling a spade, a spade.

[quote="Cardiff Dave"]Mightily bored of this.
Like it or not, NWQs will continue to play a part in our game in some shape or form, whatever. They are not the problem. [/quote]

I dont think so CD. The regions will not be able to afford NWQ's of any ability.

The door to the last chance saloon has shut behind us and the Region WRU fiasco is making us the laughing stock of world rugby.

CFC and the Swans are now in the driving seat

Allty wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Allty wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Allty wrote:I do not think NWQ's are of use to Welsh rugby.

They may have been some years back and when they were top quality but the players being brought in now are a waste.

Every single one?

Have you seen them all play to be in a position to judge, and if so, have you seen domestic players on the market who are better?

Whilst the NWQ's are in place there is clearly very little opportunity to see potential regional players perform.

Having watched just about every game played by the regions since their start I just have to say yes I have seen the NWQ's in action.

I don't believe ewe.

When you get to 70 and have had many moons of happy retirement and enjoy sport and can afford the time you can do these things CD.

I hope it happens for you.

How could you have watched just about every game though? You're making it up as you go along I reckon.

I said just about every game and I should have said Televised

Yep and I bet you watched them all on the telly. By not supporting a specific region I guess you never ventured abroad to France or Italy for example. England even.

[quote="Cardiff Dave"]"The Way Forward"? - a good start would be calling a spade, a spade.

[/quote]

Sorry you have lost me

[quote="Cardiff Dave"][quote="Allty"][quote="Cardiff Dave"][quote="Allty"][quote="Cardiff Dave"][quote="Allty"][quote="Luckless Pedestrian"][quote="Allty"]I do not think NWQ's are of use to Welsh rugby.

They may have been some years back and when they were top quality but the players being brought in now are a waste. [/quote]

Every single one?

Have you seen them all play to be in a position to judge, and if so, have you seen domestic players on the market who are better?[/quote]

Whilst the NWQ's are in place there is clearly very little opportunity to see potential regional players perform.

[b]Having watched just about every game played by the regions since their start[/b] I just have to say yes I have seen the NWQ's in action.
[/quote]

I don't believe ewe.[/quote]

When you get to 70 and have had many moons of happy retirement and enjoy sport and can afford the time you can do these things CD.

I hope it happens for you.[/quote]

How could you have watched just about every game though? You're making it up as you go along I reckon.[/quote]

I said just about every game and I should have said Televised[/quote]

Yep and I bet you watched them all on the telly. By not supporting a specific region I guess you never ventured abroad to France or Italy for example. England even.[/quote]

I dont live in the UK

Allty wrote:

Yep and I bet you watched them all on the telly. By not supporting a specific region I guess you never ventured abroad to France or Italy for example. England even.

I dont live in the UK [/quote]

Are you having me on or what?

Allty wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:"The Way Forward"? - a good start would be calling a spade, a spade.

Sorry you have lost me

Thanks.

Again Dave, wouldn't waste my time on someone we all may just know...

thebluesmancometh wrote:Again Dave, wouldn't waste my time on someone we all may just know...

You're right, but sometimes you have to bite. I notice that the old duffer can't quote properly either.

[quote="thebluesmancometh"]Again Dave, wouldn't waste my time on someone we all may just know...[/quote]

Go on tell us who you think I am

[quote="Cardiff Dave"][quote="thebluesmancometh"]Again Dave, wouldn't waste my time on someone we all may just know...[/quote]

You're right, but sometimes you have to bite. I notice that the old duffer can't quote properly either.[/quote]

Please advise me how to quote properly.

[quote="Cardiff Dave"][quote="Allty"]

Yep and I bet you watched them all on the telly. By not supporting a specific region I guess you never ventured abroad to France or Italy for example. England even.[/quote]

I dont live in the UK [/quote]

Are you having me on or what?[/quote]

No I do not live in the UK.

Most of my time is spent in far sunnier climes with the odd visit to Wales. Its a retired persons reward for hard work

[quote="Cardiff Dave"][quote="thebluesmancometh"]Again Dave, wouldn't waste my time on someone we all may just know...[/quote]

You're right, but sometimes you have to bite. I notice that the old duffer can't quote properly either.[/quote]

If you are lucky work hard you may become an old duffer.

One of the things we have in our favour is a lifetime of experience

I was a wild young man and now do my best to help others not make the same mistakes.

You learn by your mistakes and you few could be on a mega learning curve

Allty wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Allty wrote:

Yep and I bet you watched them all on the telly. By not supporting a specific region I guess you never ventured abroad to France or Italy for example. England even.

I dont live in the UK

Are you having me on or what?

No I do not live in the UK.

Most of my time is spent in far sunnier climes with the odd visit to Wales. Its a retired persons reward for hard work[/quote]

Bloody foreigners.

Allty wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:Mightily bored of this.
Like it or not, NWQs will continue to play a part in our game in some shape or form, whatever. They are not the problem.

I dont think so CD. The regions will not be able to afford NWQ's of any ability.

The door to the last chance saloon has shut behind us and the Region WRU fiasco is making us the laughing stock of world rugby.

CFC and the Swans are now in the driving seat

Who are CFC? Laughing stock of World Rugby? I'm now more convinced I know who you are. Not a bad effort this account creation. I wouldn't have worked it out, until Bluesman said.

Gis a clue who I am

CFC is CCFFC for short or the Cardiff City Fly Fishing Club

Allty wrote:To me the important thing is the outside half factory (Academies) being able to stay open and give today’s Jiffys a chance. This can only happen if our players can see that there is a chance of becoming a regional player

You're right. Today's young Welsh players must look at the regions fielding 12, 13 or more Welsh players in their XVs and despair.

You forget the guy who does not make the squad because his way is blocked by a NWQ

All of our young players are important not just those who people think may become super stars

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Allty wrote:To me the important thing is the outside half factory (Academies) being able to stay open and give today’s Jiffys a chance. This can only happen if our players can see that there is a chance of becoming a regional player

You're right. Today's young Welsh players must look at the regions fielding 12, 13 or more Welsh players in their XVs and despair.

The fly half factories are working double time seeing as since regionalism they have churned out Hook, Biggar, Priestland, Tovey, Patchell, Morgan, Stef Jones, Robling, Davies, Owen Williams and Jordan Williams.

None of which have been blocked by a foreign player to my knowledge!

Risca Rev wrote:

Allty wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:Mightily bored of this.
Like it or not, NWQs will continue to play a part in our game in some shape or form, whatever. They are not the problem.

I dont think so CD. The regions will not be able to afford NWQ's of any ability.

The door to the last chance saloon has shut behind us and the Region WRU fiasco is making us the laughing stock of world rugby.

CFC and the Swans are now in the driving seat

Who are CFC? Laughing stock of World Rugby? I'm now more convinced I know who you are. Not a bad effort this account creation. I wouldn't have worked it out, until Bluesman said.

Hershey?

[quote="Griff"]None of which have been blocked by a foreign player to my knowledge![/quote]Hook sat on the Neath bench for ages.

Guys you take things too literally

Since pro rugby became the norm the factory went mega drive and is deveoping players from 1 --- 15. Have any of those been blocked

Allty wrote:You forget the guy who does not make the squad because his way is blocked by a NWQ

His progress will only be 'blocked' if he's not as good as the NWQ. This is professional sport, not 'everyone wins a prize' day. If a young Welsh player is good enough, he'll get his chance.

Why oh why is anyone still bothering with one of our old mates pretending to be a new character??

'Cos I don't know who you mean Bluesman! I don't do cryptic!

Allty wrote:

Griff wrote:None of which have been blocked by a foreign player to my knowledge!

Hook sat on the Neath bench for ages.

Guys you take things too literally

Since pro rugby became the norm the factory went mega drive and is deveoping players from 1 --- 15. Have any of those been blocked

Neath? As in the team that joined with Swansea to form the Ospreys, pre regionalism? So 2002??? He would have been 16. Damn right he was on the bench at that age.

[quote="Griff"][quote="Allty"][quote="Griff"]None of which have been blocked by a foreign player to my knowledge![/quote]

[b]Hook sat on the Neath bench for ages.[/b]

Guys you take things too literally

Since pro rugby became the norm the factory went mega drive and is deveoping players from 1 --- 15. Have any of those been blocked[/quote]

Neath? As in the team that joined with Swansea to form the Ospreys, pre regionalism? So 2002??? He would have been 16. Damn right he was on the bench at that age.[/quote]


Do keep up Griff and dont let facts get in the way of points scoring

He was turning out for Neath in the Prem.

[quote="thebluesmancometh"]Why oh why is anyone still bothering with one of our old mates pretending to be a new character??[/quote]

Cos they like me

Allty wrote:

Griff wrote:

Allty wrote:

Griff wrote:None of which have been blocked by a foreign player to my knowledge!

Hook sat on the Neath bench for ages.

Guys you take things too literally

Since pro rugby became the norm the factory went mega drive and is deveoping players from 1 --- 15. Have any of those been blocked

Neath? As in the team that joined with Swansea to form the Ospreys, pre regionalism? So 2002??? He would have been 16. Damn right he was on the bench at that age.

Do keep up Griff and dont let facts get in the way of points scoring

He was turning out for Neath in the Prem.

So tell us who was blocking him at the Ospreys?

I'll let you into a secret...Lyn Jones

I have also explained it is not about one name.

With regards to blocking players... Do you not remember a has-been Martyn Williams blocking a certain mr Warburton?

That doesn't count, Mikey. Apparently it's impossible for a Welsh player to block another Welsh player.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Why oh why is anyone still bothering with one of our old mates pretending to be a new character??

Bluesman, not too sure who you believe Allty to be, however he is not a returning poster, so please can you drop the accusations.

[quote="mikey_philVIII"]With regards to blocking players... Do you not remember a has-been Martyn Williams blocking a certain mr Warburton? [/quote]

A Welsh player can not block another Welsh player. Its not too difficult to understand why.

[quote="ScarletSpiderman"][quote="thebluesmancometh"]Why oh why is anyone still bothering with one of our old mates pretending to be a new character??[/quote]

Bluesman, not too sure who you believe Allty to be, however he is not a returning poster, so please can you drop the accusations.[/quote]

Thanks SS I dont mind the banter When you are 70 very little bothers you

[quote="Luckless Pedestrian"]That doesn't count, Mikey. Apparently it's impossible for a Welsh player to block another Welsh player. [/quote]

Think about it.

There's nothing to think about, Allty. Player A blocks player B regardless of their nationalities. What you seem to be saying is that you care about the young Welsh player who's being kept out of the side by a NWQ, but not about the young Welsh player being kept out by a fellow Welshman.

[quote="Luckless Pedestrian"]There's nothing to think about, Allty. Player A blocks player B regardless of their nationalities. What you seem to be saying is that you care about the young Welsh player who's being kept out of the side by a NWQ, but not about the young Welsh player being kept out by a fellow Welshman. [/quote]

You really have a problem with this dont you.

Does Mike Phillips block Knoyle or does he block a French player or is Phillips the best Welsh 9.

Does Adam J block A.N. Other or is AJ the best Welsh TH available.

Think about it. It is really basic stuff.

Without resorting to riddles, please explain to me how:

Player A, a NWQ player, blocks the progress of a young Welsh player;

Player B, a Welsh player, does not block the progress of a young Welsh player.

For the sake of my sanity, say what you mean.

Allty, people have a problem with your 'welsh players can't block welsh players' arguement because it is illogical.

If a player is unable to get game time it is because they are being blocked from wearing the shirt. Whether the player currently wearing the shirt is the best player to have ever played in that possition, or a tool who can not catch the ball, the fact is they are blocking the other players from playing in that shirt.

Looking at the regions, at the moment, you could argue that Phil John is blocking Rhodri Jones. Part of the reason Matthew Rees and Tavis Knoyle are moving to new teams this summer is because they have been blocking (and costing more) the path of younger players such as Ken Owens, Kirby Myhill, and Emyr Phillips at hooker, and Rhodri Williams, Gareth & Aled Davies.

Think about it. It is really basic stuff (as you put it)

[quote="ScarletSpiderman"]Allty, people have a problem with your 'welsh players can't block welsh players' arguement because it is illogical.

If a player is unable to get game time it is because they are being blocked from wearing the shirt. Whether the player currently wearing the shirt is the best player to have ever played in that possition, or a tool who can not catch the ball, the fact is they are blocking the other players from playing in that shirt.

Looking at the regions, at the moment, you could argue that Phil John is blocking Rhodri Jones. Part of the reason Matthew Rees and Tavis Knoyle are moving to new teams this summer is because they have been blocking (and costing more) the path of younger players such as Ken Owens, Kirby Myhill, and Emyr Phillips at hooker, and Rhodri Williams, Gareth & Aled Davies.

Think about it. It is really basic stuff (as you put it)[/quote]

A Welsh player is not blocking a lesser Welsh player. In a simple form it can be equated to a second team player trying to get into the first team and until he is good enough or better than the incumbent he isn't being blocked

If you are talking game-time it is another matter and we need to move on to the structure of Welsh rugby with a main focus on regional A teams and the use of the Prem.

However it can not be disputed that NWQ's are clearly blocking WQ's.

Facepalm, facepalm, FACEPALM!

Allty wrote:It can be equated to a second team player trying to get into the first team and until he is good enough or better than the incumbent he isn't being blocked.

I agree with this 100%. What I can't fathom is why you think that equation changes automatically when the incumbent is NWQ. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that a NWQ might be the best player in his position?

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That doesn't count, Mikey. Apparently it's impossible for a Welsh player to block another Welsh player.

Think about it.

But with my example Allty a welsh player was blocking another welsh player, fact. We had a really poor JT at 6 and MW at 7 for too long. When Lydiate and Warbs were ready these two has beens were in their way. When the latter finally got a run of games together they proved to be our best back-row forwards for decades.

Why Williams got another contract extension I'll never know. Despite a players popularity you don't just keep him on for the sake of it in this pro era we're trying to compete in.