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[solved]RG3 V Russell Wilson V Colin Kaepernick

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Post by Colan (niner) Fri 03 May 2013, 12:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

Out of these three, who do you think has the most potential and looks like the best QB.

Of course I'm bias but I'd say CK has best arm and best chance to reach that to 5 or 6 QB's list. I think he can take over games in a way the other two can't.

Wilson I like but I'm just not sold on him doing much better than he did last season. From watching him in college until now, I can't help feeling he has reached his peak which is still brilliant.

RG3 has second most talented arm out of these three but injury history is worrying.

Suppose the questions is, who would you rather mortgage your future on if your team had a shot at one of them?


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Post by GSC Tue 07 May 2013, 3:39 pm

Wilson looked the most comfortable playing from the pocket towards the end of the year. RG3 had his moments, but both he and Kaepernick were kept more in their comfort zones from my PoV. Though RG3 was fairly badly hurt towards the end.
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Post by Colan (niner) Tue 07 May 2013, 3:46 pm

Nobody is disputing that he has the clutch factor but the Seattle offense is very friendly to him. Could he thrive in any system the way RG3 or CK could, I'm not so sure. As for comebacks, a season ago that was referred to as the 'Alex Smith' stat so I've always seen it as overrated. Sure it is important but the reason you have so much success is that teams are defending a lead and play conservatvely and the passing game becomes easier. I think he'll do great with Seattle but not as scheme versatile as the others. Wilson's size and frame will hurt him at some point. Brees is the only example where it hasn't happened. The truth is that he has to be catered for more than the others. But thats fine because Seattle can afford to do that and be very very successful. He just doesn't have the 'it' factor where he can single handedly take over games without much help, needs all the pieces in place and a very efficient offense.


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Post by NYJ Tue 07 May 2013, 3:56 pm

Colan (niner) wrote:Nobody is disputing that he has the clutch factor but the Seattle offense is very friendly to him. Could he thrive in any system the way RG3 or CK could, I'm not so sure. As for comebacks, a season ago that was referred to as the 'Alex Smith' stat so I've always seen it as overrated. Sure it is important but the reason you have so much success is that teams are defending a lead and play conservatvely and the passing game becomes easier. I think he'll do great with Seattle but not as scheme versatile as the others. Wilson's size and frame will hurt him at some point. Brees is the only example where it hasn't happened. The truth is that he has to be catered for more than the others. But thats fine because Seattle can afford to do that and be very very successful

Wilson hasn't played in any other system in the NFL, neither has RG3 or CK, so it's difficult to say what limitations they have. What makes the Seahawks offense so much more friendly than the 49ers? CK has the best OL in football and a top 5 running game. The 49ers receiving options are probably better than the Seahawks too.

I wasn't even comparing Wilson to RG3 and CK until this post but Russell Wilson is being criminally underrated here.
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Post by Colan (niner) Tue 07 May 2013, 4:00 pm

NYJ wrote:
Colan (niner) wrote:Nobody is disputing that he has the clutch factor but the Seattle offense is very friendly to him. Could he thrive in any system the way RG3 or CK could, I'm not so sure. As for comebacks, a season ago that was referred to as the 'Alex Smith' stat so I've always seen it as overrated. Sure it is important but the reason you have so much success is that teams are defending a lead and play conservatvely and the passing game becomes easier. I think he'll do great with Seattle but not as scheme versatile as the others. Wilson's size and frame will hurt him at some point. Brees is the only example where it hasn't happened. The truth is that he has to be catered for more than the others. But thats fine because Seattle can afford to do that and be very very successful

Wilson hasn't played in any other system in the NFL, neither has RG3 or CK, so it's difficult to say what limitations they have. What makes the Seahawks offense so much more friendly than the 49ers? CK has the best OL in football and a top 5 running game. The 49ers receiving options are probably better than the Seahawks too.

I wasn't even comparing Wilson to RG3 and CK until this post but Russell Wilson is being criminally underrated here.


only time I've seen the offense for Seattle change is when they have had a big defecit. I've seen at least three or four style of games from CK that he has won playing an entirely different way. Wilson is just far more reliant on a scheme because he doesn't have rare skills or freakish traits. Barring large defecits when teams were playing conservative, there is a reason Seattle wanted him moving around.

I'm not bashing him at all, just saying what I've known since his college days. Loved watching him then but he is a scheme guy and rythm passer. Watch his games at both levels and its evident. If you compare him to the others, he had to do the least amount of different things, which is a credit to Seattle because they were so good they didn't have to change things.


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Post by GSC Tue 07 May 2013, 4:03 pm

Wilson is being criminally underrated by 1 poster.

I think RG3 would be my pick everytime with 2 knees. But Wilson was playing like a top 5 QB towards the end of the year.
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Post by Colan (niner) Tue 07 May 2013, 4:09 pm

Wilson IS imo a top ten NFL QB, and always will be barring injury. Top 5 when Brady/Manning etc go. Though I'd take Wilson over them were I starting a franchise. But he was drafted to fill a specific type of offense and role, RG3 and Kap don't have the same limitations


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Post by NYJ Tue 07 May 2013, 4:10 pm

Colan (niner) wrote:
NYJ wrote:
Colan (niner) wrote:Nobody is disputing that he has the clutch factor but the Seattle offense is very friendly to him. Could he thrive in any system the way RG3 or CK could, I'm not so sure. As for comebacks, a season ago that was referred to as the 'Alex Smith' stat so I've always seen it as overrated. Sure it is important but the reason you have so much success is that teams are defending a lead and play conservatvely and the passing game becomes easier. I think he'll do great with Seattle but not as scheme versatile as the others. Wilson's size and frame will hurt him at some point. Brees is the only example where it hasn't happened. The truth is that he has to be catered for more than the others. But thats fine because Seattle can afford to do that and be very very successful

Wilson hasn't played in any other system in the NFL, neither has RG3 or CK, so it's difficult to say what limitations they have. What makes the Seahawks offense so much more friendly than the 49ers? CK has the best OL in football and a top 5 running game. The 49ers receiving options are probably better than the Seahawks too.

I wasn't even comparing Wilson to RG3 and CK until this post but Russell Wilson is being criminally underrated here.


only time I've seen the offense for Seattle change is when they have had a big defecit. I've seen at least three or four style of games from CK that he has won playing an entirely different way. Wilson is just far more reliant on a scheme because he doesn't have rare skills or freakish traits. Barring large defecits when teams were playing conservative, there is a reason Seattle wanted him moving around.

It's still unclear whether Wilson, CK or RG3 would thrive in a different offense because we haven't seen them do so. Wilson takes over games and wins them by himself. That's enough for me to want him as my franchise QB.

Oh, and Alex Smith has had 10 Fourth Quarter Comebacks and 12 Game Winning Drives in eight years where he has started 77 games. That's a 4QC every 7.7 games compared to Wilson's 4.5.
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Post by Colan (niner) Tue 07 May 2013, 4:12 pm

okay I'll accept that he is a top class QB but will be proved right next season when he falls a little and the other two (if healthy) surpass him. All I have is time and patience

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Post by twelve283 Tue 07 May 2013, 8:33 pm

Reading through the quotes posted earlier you can tell HR really does have a "man-crush" on Colin Kaepernick. Laugh

Some of the comments make it sound like Colin Kaepernick's athleticism is unheard of and the reason he's going to take over the game of football but Cam Newton is just as big and just as athletic. I go back to this from my earlier reply,

"Many former and current NFL coaches and FO personnel will tell you that to be a successful quarterback in the NFL you have to be an effective pocket passer before anything else..."

Kaepernick's success will be down to his ability as a passer not his athletic ability, same for Griffin and Wilson.

BTW if Wilson really is as limited as some are suggesting then he's not going to last.

"I'm not taking a QB who has to shuffle and roll out of the pocket most of the time to complete a pass...it seems things have to be orchestrated for him."

Speaking of having things orchestrated the other two had similar help and i'm not talking about the read option i'm talking about finding ways to make the reads easy for them.

While were on the subject, the read option isn't the issue, it's come and gone over the last 10 years so it's not new to the NFL. Seattle, San Francisco and Washington are just the latest teams who are using a quarterbacks ability to run the ball.

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Post by Colan (niner) Tue 07 May 2013, 8:45 pm

Do you post on the 'other site' if so I have an idea of who you are there, some simlar posts but could just be coincidence

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Post by twelve283 Tue 07 May 2013, 10:24 pm

Colan (niner) wrote:Do you post on the 'other site' if so I have an idea of who you are there, some simlar posts but could just be coincidence
Yeah but not very often, I haven't commented on the other thread.

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Post by Derbyblue Tue 07 May 2013, 11:38 pm

Colan (niner) wrote:only time I've seen the offense for Seattle change is when they have had a big defecit. I've seen at least three or four style of games from CK that he has won playing an entirely different way. Wilson is just far more reliant on a scheme because he doesn't have rare skills or freakish traits. Barring large defecits when teams were playing conservative, there is a reason Seattle wanted him moving around.

I'm not bashing him at all, just saying what I've known since his college days. Loved watching him then but he is a scheme guy and rythm passer. Watch his games at both levels and its evident. If you compare him to the others, he had to do the least amount of different things, which is a credit to Seattle because they were so good they didn't have to change things.
What is this reason? Because I wonder how much of it is play design and how much of it is he has to move around to extend a play because his WR's are poor? There's a reason they were willing to give up a 1st for Harvin and it's not because he's the best in the game.

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Post by Colan (niner) Wed 08 May 2013, 12:48 am

Main reason is height and to make the field shorter for him (half) because he lacks elite arm strength like a Mike Vick (though Wilson is superior player) to overcome that. He is a great scrambler when plays break down but 9 out of 10 times it is by design, simply because you can't recommend a tiny QB being so stationery. They only did it when they were behind when they had no choice as it means the deep ball was more of a threat and quick strikes too

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Post by Number-25 Wed 08 May 2013, 6:19 pm

D'you know, it amazes me the snootiness that exists amongst the media and fans when it comes to the read option. People talk like it's some fad and some afront to the game that will be stamped out sooner rather than later. Like twelve283 points out above though, it's nothing new and it's been around for a number of years now. All I know is, if you've got a QB who is a genuine running threat but who is also an excellent passer of the ball then you're going to have to respect both of the means by which he can hurt you. If, like the Redskins, Seahawks and 49ers, you combine that with an excellent RB in the backfield then that's a lot of problems that the defense has to think about before they even get to worrying about what receivers are on the field and who's lining up where. Why then are people so quick to assume that this is an offensive formation that will be "solved" quickly and that RG3, Wilson and Kap will be forced to learn a new offense. Why should these guys be pigeon-holed into a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning type of offense? The reason that the read option hasn't been as prevalent in the NFL until now is because there hasn't been a group of guys like we're seeing now that can run it effectively.

Out of the 3 QBs we've been chatting about here, the one who might have to adjust his game the most is RG3 because the Redskins can't expose him as much as they did last year. Having said that, like Shanahan says, they don't necessarily have to run him as much as they did last year because it's more the threat of him taking off that will keep defenses on their heels. One thing RG3 does exceptionally well is sell the play fake. I've never seen anyone do it as well as he can. While he's got that in his locker, he's going to keep defenses on their heels. Sitting in the pocket more often will also not be a problem to him. He did it last year and did it exceptionally well.

With regards Wilson, from what I saw of him last year I was really impressed however I get really irritated by the media and fan love-in with him. His talents get amplified and his weaknesses turned down because he was a 3rd round draft pick in the year that Luck and RG3 were drafted. People are rooting for him more than the other two guys. Like I say, I like him and I think he's very good, but he's done nothing that RG3 and Andrew Luck haven't done and has nothing in his locker that those guys don't have. I get the impression that Kap enjoys the same kind of treatment from the media - he's the underdog picked in the second round. I think people take RG3 and Luck for granted because they were the high draft picks and get less credit from some sections than Wilson and Kap do.

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Post by Colan (niner) Wed 08 May 2013, 6:42 pm

Number-25 wrote:D'you know, it amazes me the snootiness that exists amongst the media and fans when it comes to the read option. People talk like it's some fad and some afront to the game that will be stamped out sooner rather than later. Like twelve283 points out above though, it's nothing new and it's been around for a number of years now. All I know is, if you've got a QB who is a genuine running threat but who is also an excellent passer of the ball then you're going to have to respect both of the means by which he can hurt you. If, like the Redskins, Seahawks and 49ers, you combine that with an excellent RB in the backfield then that's a lot of problems that the defense has to think about before they even get to worrying about what receivers are on the field and who's lining up where. Why then are people so quick to assume that this is an offensive formation that will be "solved" quickly and that RG3, Wilson and Kap will be forced to learn a new offense. Why should these guys be pigeon-holed into a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning type of offense? The reason that the read option hasn't been as prevalent in the NFL until now is because there hasn't been a group of guys like we're seeing now that can run it effectively.

Out of the 3 QBs we've been chatting about here, the one who might have to adjust his game the most is RG3 because the Redskins can't expose him as much as they did last year. Having said that, like Shanahan says, they don't necessarily have to run him as much as they did last year because it's more the threat of him taking off that will keep defenses on their heels. One thing RG3 does exceptionally well is sell the play fake. I've never seen anyone do it as well as he can. While he's got that in his locker, he's going to keep defenses on their heels. Sitting in the pocket more often will also not be a problem to him. He did it last year and did it exceptionally well.

With regards Wilson, from what I saw of him last year I was really impressed however I get really irritated by the media and fan love-in with him. His talents get amplified and his weaknesses turned down because he was a 3rd round draft pick in the year that Luck and RG3 were drafted. People are rooting for him more than the other two guys. Like I say, I like him and I think he's very good, but he's done nothing that RG3 and Andrew Luck haven't done and has nothing in his locker that those guys don't have. I get the impression that Kap enjoys the same kind of treatment from the media - he's the underdog picked in the second round. I think people take RG3 and Luck for granted because they were the high draft picks and get less credit from some sections than Wilson and Kap do.

I agree to a certain extent but Wilson was on a better team and Kap made the SB in his 10th start and had one of the most impressive QB performances ever in his first playoff appearance so its natural success breeds interest and success breeds rightful hype

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Post by Barney92 Wed 08 May 2013, 9:18 pm

I agree 25, as long as the read-option is run as part of an offence and by a qb who is a genuine passer of the ball I'm not sure it's going to be 'solved' easily. Pure running qbs should be stopped easily enough but if one is a legitimate threat by running and passing, the read-option can only be a weapon. Sure people have a fair idea what Brady/Rodgers/Brees are going to do and they still can't stop them. A quarterback with running ability like RGIII or Wilson just adds a bit more confusion to the defence and I can't see the supposed 'fad' ending any time soon.

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