Gatland Secret agenda?

I have a theory on Warburton's selection...

Gatland could have and possibly should have gone with an older more experienced leader that will be able to command a presence over the other older experienced players.

I'm sure respect won't be an issue but the lions may end up relying on the pedigree of players like BOD and POC and hope they react well to Warburton. If the lions lose the series I'm sure the captain will be a talking issue.

However... if the lions are victorious, imagine the benefits and repercussions it would have on Warburton and the Wales camp. The world cup is two years away, it's hosted locally, Wales are grouped with England and Australia who they badly need a victory against. Having the captain of a victorious lions squad in your team would be a massive asset.

Being Wales coach, I believe Gatland has played this to his advantage. He's exposed his first choice XV to the lions experience and picked one of his own as captain. You can't really knock many of his selections and because wales won the championship it gives him the ammunition to justify it.

Think about this...

1997 - lions win, English captain.
Six years of English supremacy and a world cup

2005 - English coach on lions, mostly English players.
Two years later England reach another final and come close to winning it.

Wales has been given a unique opportunity and advantage and Gatland is certainly milking it.
In 2001 it would not have been as effective for Wales for Graham Henry to overpick on Welsh as the bulk of the Welsh players were too far behind in development, fitness and professionalism. With Wales currently on a two tournament winning streak and having a settled squad mainly made of youngsters, Gatland can expose them to vital world stage experience. Star players like Cuthbert and Tipuric who didn't feature in RWC 2011 will certainly benefit.

,,,,,it's hardly secret what the benefits will be....but sad that Wales, thanks to the ambitions of Gatland and mismanagement by the WRU, should be put through the mincer on the off chance that we might reap rewards.....one could easily argue we would have gained more by the WRU telling Gatland he was Wales coach first and that his Lion ambitions should take 2nd place....he should never have been given a year off. Also the fact is had wales not thrashed england it would hve been hard to justify such a large welsh squad.
what matters now is a lions series win....if we do it warburton will enter legend and that may be enough for wales - the ultimate confidence team - to follow into at least the 1/4s in 2015. But failure of this tour and we all know who is going to bear the brunt.

There is no agenda, certainly not a secret one anyway. Gatland coaches wales therefore he is always going to favour the guys he knows and trains. Just like stevens, vunipola, farrell likely edged in because of farrell senior and tom youngs, tom croft etc got in because of rowntree (also would have been routing for the english props). Also the welsh genuinely have the best players about hibbard, A jones, tipuric, phillips, roberts, north, halfpenny, cuthbert etc etc all deserve to be there. The only thing i do really question is having warburton at captain, its a massive risk, BUT if your starting line up is going to have 8 or more welsh in it, it makes sense to have the welsh captain in charge. I dont think the lions will do the welsh alot of favours as alot of them will get long term injured/fatigued and as its essentially a welsh team/training camp and coach therefore the other nations will be able to learn so much about wales to take home after the tour.

Supreme command of the world?

So Gatland's secret is that Wales cannot win against Australia on their own.

But he hopes with mixing a few other players from the 3 other countrys, that he (Gatland) will come away with a series win, against the very team his own country cannot beat. eh?

majesticimperialman wrote:So Gatland's secret is that Wales cannot win against Australia on their own.

But he hopes with mixing a few other players from the 3 other countrys, that he (Gatland) will come away with a series win, against the very team his own country cannot beat. eh?

What?

.....to run the English, Irish and Welsh players ragged through the Lions season...kill their spirit with over training and heavy impact rugby - and then take over as Scottish Head Coach - another Slam in the pocket

majesticimperialman wrote:So Gatland's secret is that Wales cannot win against Australia on their own.

But he hopes with mixing a few other players from the 3 other countrys, that he (Gatland) will come away with a series win, against the very team his own country cannot beat. eh?

pathetic wum, i am assuming this sort of comment is made by a bad spambot, no lions fan would make such a tawdry observation

100%beefy wrote:,,.one could easily argue we would have gained more by the WRU telling Gatland he was Wales coach first and that his Lion ambitions should take 2nd place....he should never have been given a year off.

If the WRU had done that Gatland would not have stayed as Wales coach - the release for the Lions (if it came) was a condition he insisted on

wanderingdragon wrote:

100%beefy wrote:,,.one could easily argue we would have gained more by the WRU telling Gatland he was Wales coach first and that his Lion ambitions should take 2nd place....he should never have been given a year off.

If the WRU had done that Gatland would not have stayed as Wales coach - the release for the Lions (if it came) was a condition he insisted on

it's a separate issue but one that grates on me....who agreed to that clause? for me, if it exists, that stupid accommodation of his ambition has cost wales much more than it should. one hopes that if the lions are victorious that wales can, finally kick on, but of course i cynically believe that if they do the new monkey on the back will be...why couldn't wales beat them ONCE fron 2011-2012. If we lose, like i said, you know who takes the rap.

If that is the case (as stated in the OP) then I think it is a selfish approach from Gatland.

OK, maybe not selfish... but certainly a high risk choice of a Welsh bias squad/average captain loaded with more Welsh players he thinks can do the biz but who are perennial losers (in recent years) when up against the Wallabies.

The legless, armless knight in The Life of Brian anyone?

Sure, if the Lions can pull off a series victory... Wales will be better placed for RWC 2015. Brilliant move if that's the case.
Still, it kind of snubs the other Home Nations players and I'm sure none of you (non-Welsh) fans will forget that!

Should the Lions fail... well, not only is there a danger of more demoralisation of the Wales players (v SH opposition) he will also have created an even greater enemy for himself in our RWC Group... and I'm not talking about Australia here.

100%beefy wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:So Gatland's secret is that Wales cannot win against Australia on their own.

But he hopes with mixing a few other players from the 3 other countrys, that he (Gatland) will come away with a series win, against the very team his own country cannot beat. eh?

pathetic wum, i am assuming this sort of comment is made by a bad spambot, no lions fan would make such a tawdry observation

It is no WUM BEFFY. ..I was just reading the between the lines of what you wrote.

I have a theory on Warburton's selection...

Gatland could have and possibly should have gone with an older more experienced leader that will be able to command a presence over the other older experienced players.

I'm sure respect won't be an issue but the lions may end up relying on the pedigree of players like BOD and POC and hope they react well to Warburton. If the lions lose the series I'm sure the captain will be a talking issue.

However... if the lions are victorious, imagine the benefits and repercussions it would have on Warburton and the Wales camp. The world cup is two years away, it's hosted locally, Wales are grouped with England and Australia who they badly need a victory against. Having the captain of a victorious lions squad in your team would be a massive asset.

Being Wales coach, I believe Gatland has played this to his advantage. He's exposed his first choice XV to the lions experience and picked one of his own as captain. You can't really knock many of his selections and because wales won the championship it gives him the ammunition to justify it.


Reading between the lines here, Gatland as exposed his first xv to take on the Aussies through lions experience.

Wales could not beat Australia by them selves and by picking his own player as Captain he is giving him( Warburton) and his Welsh players the learning chance of beating Australia.

So no, it is not a WUM at all thank.

For what it is worth i do hope the Lions win the series ok.

[quote="t1000advancedprototype"]

1997 - lions win, English captain.
Six years of English supremacy and a world cup

2005 - English coach on lions, mostly English players.
Two years later England reach another final and come close to winning it.

How can you compare those 2 tours, 97 was our one and only success since 89 05 was most probably the worst in terms of organisation and performce for a long long long time.

How many of the English players in 05 were there for England in 07?

majesticimperialman wrote:

100%beefy wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:So Gatland's secret is that Wales cannot win against Australia on their own.

But he hopes with mixing a few other players from the 3 other countrys, that he (Gatland) will come away with a series win, against the very team his own country cannot beat. eh?

pathetic wum, i am assuming this sort of comment is made by a bad spambot, no lions fan would make such a tawdry observation

It is no WUM BEFFY. ..I was just reading the between the lines of what you wrote.

I have a theory on Warburton's selection...

Gatland could have and possibly should have gone with an older more experienced leader that will be able to command a presence over the other older experienced players.

I'm sure respect won't be an issue but the lions may end up relying on the pedigree of players like BOD and POC and hope they react well to Warburton. If the lions lose the series I'm sure the captain will be a talking issue.

However... if the lions are victorious, imagine the benefits and repercussions it would have on Warburton and the Wales camp. The world cup is two years away, it's hosted locally, Wales are grouped with England and Australia who they badly need a victory against. Having the captain of a victorious lions squad in your team would be a massive asset.

Being Wales coach, I believe Gatland has played this to his advantage. He's exposed his first choice XV to the lions experience and picked one of his own as captain. You can't really knock many of his selections and because wales won the championship it gives him the ammunition to justify it.


Reading between the lines here, Gatland as exposed his first xv to take on the Aussies through lions experience.

Wales could not beat Australia by them selves and by picking his own player as Captain he is giving him( Warburton) and his Welsh players the learning chance of beating Australia.

So no, it is not a WUM at all thank.

For what it is worth i do hope the Lions win the series ok.

You contradict yourself massively all the time. It's like you post one thing, then forget what you've written. How is it one minute you say Gatland is gunning for the All Blacks job and so wants a series win and then the next, you think he would be prepared to take risk all of that just to possibly give Warburton and others experience of beating the Aussies.

Priceless

You also said BOD should have done a Wilkinson and not toured the other day, so why now should we have a more experienced captain and how come you think we may now be relying on BOD and POC to win the series. You are confusing Madge. Just form an opinion and stick to it mate

Beefy mentions Wales "kicking on"?

To where?

And why should the Lions assist them in where they are kicking on to?

Wales set the last WC alight...and just missed out on getting over the Australian hurdle. They are now twice in a row 6N champs, one of those being a Slam.

Just where are they kicking on to? Australia aren't some low class side somehow standing in the way using every trick in the book except natural talent.
They're a side that think they have a lot of kicking-on to do themselves, even though they are historically the next best consistently good side in world rankings to New Zealand.
Australia don't see themselves as the nuisance side getting in the way of Wales's natural foe - New Zealand. They think Wales are the fly swirling around their head, distracting them time and time again from their real competitive enemy - New Zealand.

Perceptions of the Welsh/Australian marathon fist-fight differ greatly depending on where you're standing on the planet.

Risca Rev wrote:You also said BOD should have done a Wilkinson and not toured the other day, so why now should we have a more experienced captain and how come you think we may now be relying on BOD and POC to win the series. You are confusing Madge. Just form an opinion and stick to it mate

RiscaRev.

I said all along since it became known that Gatland was going too be in charge of the lions that their would be a large number of Wales players in the squad. Even though their is better players that should of been included. IMO. I also said That Warburton would be the person to get the Lions Captain..Even though he did lead Wales to an 8 game defeat. ok.

SecretFly wrote:Beefy mentions Wales "kicking on"?

To where?

And why should the Lions assist them in where they are kicking on to?

Wales set the last WC alight...and just missed out on getting over the Australian hurdle. They are now twice in a row 6N champs, one of those being a Slam.

Just where are they kicking on to? Australia aren't some low class side somehow standing in the way using every trick in the book except natural talent.
They're a side that think they have a lot of kicking-on to do themselves, even though they are historically the next best consistently good side in world rankings to New Zealand.
Australia don't see themselves as the nuisance side getting in the way of Wales's natural foe - New Zealand. They think Wales are the fly swirling around their head, distracting them time and time again from their real competitive enemy - New Zealand.

Perceptions of the Welsh/Australian marathon fist-fight differ greatly depending on where you're standing on the planet.

Really...what planet are you on mate??

rainbow-warrior wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Beefy mentions Wales "kicking on"?

To where?

And why should the Lions assist them in where they are kicking on to?

Wales set the last WC alight...and just missed out on getting over the Australian hurdle. They are now twice in a row 6N champs, one of those being a Slam.

Just where are they kicking on to? Australia aren't some low class side somehow standing in the way using every trick in the book except natural talent.
They're a side that think they have a lot of kicking-on to do themselves, even though they are historically the next best consistently good side in world rankings to New Zealand.
Australia don't see themselves as the nuisance side getting in the way of Wales's natural foe - New Zealand. They think Wales are the fly swirling around their head, distracting them time and time again from their real competitive enemy - New Zealand.

Perceptions of the Welsh/Australian marathon fist-fight differ greatly depending on where you're standing on the planet.

Really...what planet are you on mate??

The creative English planet, mate. You read all that and still can't work out why I'd choose to write the highlighted bit?