BBC - and their agenda?

by TightHEAD Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:29 pm

Very strange to come out with this story the very same week the RWC kicks off in England, almost like they have an agenda? Headscratch

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34222183

by Wi11 Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:35 pm

I guess it's a good time to highlight a serious issue for English Rugby? What agenda do you believe they have? I think most of us would find it surprising and disappointing that things are moving in this direction (unless there is a good explanation for it, but the article doesn't seem to find one).

I would be interested to see the figures for other countries. My impression is that the likes of Scotland and Aus would also be mostly fee-paying, whereas more rugby-mad countries like Wales and NZ draw players from a range of backgrounds.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:55 pm

Well a lot of the reason is that the Club Academies have links with fee paying schools. So the academies place someone in the sixth form of a fee paying school.

The other thing is that a fair few schools are offering sports scholarships. My nephew plays county rugby and has been offered a free place at a reasonably well known fee paying school that now has links with Saracens.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:00 pm

Too much is decided by individual teachers at individual schools. I know of a current international coach (not a great country but at the WC) who's training to be a teacher so linked with a school who offered to take a pe class or set up a team, as there currently isn't one. As the teachers have no real interest in rugby union he was turned down as there's no interest in the area. Breathtakingly stupid and short sighted from the teacgers/school.

by Wi11 Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:06 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Well a lot of the reason is that the Club Academies have links with fee paying schools. So the academies place someone in the sixth form of a fee paying school.

The other thing is that a fair few schools are offering sports scholarships. My nephew plays county rugby and has been offered a free place at a reasonably well known fee paying school that now has links with Saracens.

Informative, thanks.

by whocares Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:19 pm

School rugby is not so relevant in France - at best you get some sort of introduction to the sport and that's if you're lucky and live in the countryside (where you have a lot of space), most head of schools would be worried about H&S issues and high insurance fee to be paid... like in all sports, if you want to get serious you need to find a club anyway (from U6 onwards). that's one of the reason why rugby is a regional sport as it depends of density of clubs, local exposure and competition from other sports. you will find that rugby is popular in the south while in the north and east of france it's all about basketball for instance.

by munkian Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:50 pm

Isn't Rugby more of a 'posh' sport in Ireland than it is in England now ?

by fa0019 Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:03 pm

Sort of true but not that its public school only but that its insular and rather tricky for outsiders to gain access.
In SA you can buy tickets to see the boks in tesco's (equivalent). In England you have to be best buddies with a rugby clubs' club secretary or be a member of the RFU where you can enter ballots.

Take Football for instance, I don't doubt you can probably buy tickets for wembley to see England whenever you want.

Want to take your 2 kids to twickenham.... £250 please ex. travel, food etc. The last time I saw the boks I bought 2 tickets for £30.

Its shooting themselves in the foot. There is a hub of rugby talent in the non traditional rugby classes in the UK... introducing the sport to these types will pay dividends in the future.

How much is the cheapest London based ticket for the RWC? £80 each????

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:05 pm

I got a family ticket for Olympic stadium (two adults, two kids) for £60.

Admittedly only France/Romania - but still.

by TightHEAD Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:12 pm

I thought all the games were London based looking at the prices!

by munkian Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:21 pm

Aren't Wobshaw and Launchbury the only two Hogwarts alumni in the English Squad ?

I know at least Dave Kearney (and I assume his Brother) went to Trinity College.

by fa0019 Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:27 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I got a family ticket for Olympic stadium (two adults, two kids) for £60.

Admittedly only France/Romania - but still.

Tip my hat to you LT on that. Not actually bad although probably valid for any Tier 1 team which kids will be interested in. They want to see their heroes in the end.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:42 pm

A lot of the england squad spent at least some of their schooling at "hogwarts":

Mako - Millfield on a sports scholarship
BillyV - 6th form at Harrow
Tom Youngs - Fee paying school in Norfolk
Ben Youngs - Sixth form at a state school in Leicester, but earlier at same school as big bro.
Kieran Brookes - Sixth form at an idependent grammar school
Launchbury - Hogwarts as mentioned earlier
Parling - Durham School
Kruis - independent school in Surrey
Haskell - probably the poshest Independent Prep School followed by boarding school.
Robshaw - Millfield
Wigglesworth - Independent grammar school
Ford - Independent schools in Halifax & hertfordshire
Farrell - State initially, then same herts school as Ford
Barritt - boarding school in Natal
Slade - Independent school in Plymouth
Joseph - another at Millfield
Watson - Independent school in Surrey
Goode - A plethora of idependent schools

by fa0019 Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:43 pm

Ford does sound and look like he cleans chimneys for a living mind.

by munkian Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:48 pm

LondonTiger wrote:A lot of the england squad spent at least some of their schooling at "hogwarts":

Mako - Millfield on a sports scholarship
BillyV - 6th form at Harrow
Tom Youngs - Fee paying school in Norfolk
Ben Youngs - Sixth form at a state school in Leicester, but earlier at same school as big bro.
Kieran Brookes - Sixth form at an idependent grammar school
Launchbury - Hogwarts as mentioned earlier
Parling - Durham School
Kruis - independent school in Surrey
Haskell - probably the poshest Independent Prep School followed by boarding school.
Robshaw - Millfield
Wigglesworth - Independent grammar school
Ford - Independent schools in Halifax & hertfordshire
Farrell - State initially, then same herts school as Ford
Barritt - boarding school in Natal
Slade - Independent school in Plymouth
Joseph - another at Millfield
Watson - Independent school in Surrey
Goode - A plethora of idependent schools

I stand corrected, it explains the hair cuts...

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:49 pm

Well, Robshaw, Launchbury, Haskell and Slade are more Jack Whitehall than Johnny Vegas. The rest are only posh depending on how you choose to measure it - but they do fit into the BBCs article of having spent some time at fee paying schools. Even if a fair number were also in state schooling.

by fa0019 Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:50 pm

Doesn't Chris Robshaw always go on about being from a poor single parent family? Did he win a scholarship?

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:04 pm

fa0019 wrote:Doesn't Chris Robshaw always go on about being from a poor single parent family? Did he win a scholarship?

As far as I know he was at independent schools all the time. Perhaps there was a lot of life insurance (his dad died when he was about school starting age)

by SecretFly Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:30 pm

I think they are being very racist about posh people.

How come everything now has to be led from the bottom by chavs before it is considered legit?

It seems if it ain't a London working-class accent it's discrimination, innit!

by fa0019 Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:32 pm

SecretFly wrote:I think they are being very racist about posh people.

How come everything now has to be led from the bottom by chavs before it is considered legit?

It seems if it ain't a London working-class accent it's discrimination, innit!

by the sounds of it, a large proportion of the team comes from just 7% of the population (i.e those who go to private school in UK). Its not discrimination but rather ignoring a huge wealth of talent potential by openly ignoring non rugby groups and not trying to make the game accessible for all.

by SecretFly Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:41 pm

Oh I'm just messing around a bit there fa - though as usual a degree of real attitude there too I must admit.

Me personally, I went to a school that always concentrated on GAA sports. But I always loved rugby - it was just more me. But it was never an option. Our engineering teacher was obsessed with it though and when we were in school for weekend work in the lead up to exams, he'd have his TV in and let us watch any games that were on.

But I've always been a little (not a lot) a little bitter that simply because I was from a certain area it was decided for me that my main sporting interest would be GAA - my opinions were worthless.

So I get the issue. And it is probably real but I also think the 'class' levels inherent in rugby often gives it it's distinct feel. Not a bad feel either - Doc Roberts and all that jazz. It gives a different outlet for children to be influenced in different ways by different people from different walks of life and that's not a bad thing.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:44 pm

As I said earlier fa its down to teachersa nd their reluctance to teach what they probably dont know ie focus on football and tennis not like the all white issue in some places.

by ChequeredJersey Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:31 pm

There are lots of reasons. LT made some great comments pointing some out. Kids are more likely to want to be involved, and thus do out of school training at a club etc and aspire to do well at, in a sport they are exposed to- much more likely to watch rugby live or at home or be pushed towards rugby with a middle class/upper class parent, and also more likely to go to paid school (a confounder in scientific terms).

by donglewood Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:37 pm

The BBC are a bunch of simpering lefties. Their agenda is that Britain becomes a large dangling breast from which perfectly diverse semi-literate benefit dependent minions, assembled from across the globe, suckle their daily dollop of equality whilst they avidly and meekly await BBC News at 6 to tell them what to think.

They hate independent thought, they hate those who aspire to achieve, they hate success and the wealth that allows and enables individual freedoms. They therefore loathe education and inherited wealth. They hate any establishment beyond the socialist state. Hence this ludicrous article.

At least that's what I heard some joker on the radio saying.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:46 pm

Please read to the end of posts before reporting them

by maestegmafia Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:20 pm

I'm still rather unsure what the ensuing agenda the BBC are being accused of here?

by munkian Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:36 pm

maestegmafia wrote:I'm still rather unsure what the ensuing agenda the BBC are being accused of here?

Anti En-gur-land ?

by donglewood Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:42 pm

munkian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:I'm still rather unsure what the ensuing agenda the BBC are being accused of here?

Anti En-gur-land ?

It's an odd thing how non-English Brits think the BBC is pro-England. The English seem to think the BBC is anti-English. Those of left-wing persuasion think the BBC is a right-wing propaganda mill, and right-wingers believe the BBC is a tiresome tee-total cardigan wearing socialist vegetarian human rights activist.

I guess it depends on your perspective and the amount of ambient light, or something.

by maestegmafia Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:45 pm

If you read the article in question it seems like it is based on a regression of the game spreading away from its public school roots.

Blame Football, H&S and George Osborne not the BBC

by munkian Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:15 pm

maestegmafia wrote:If you read the article in question it seems like it is based on a regression of the game spreading away from its public school roots.

Blame Football, H&S and George Osborne not the BBC

When you say public do you mean posh ?

by maestegmafia Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:40 pm

munkian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:If you read the article in question it seems like it is based on a regression of the game spreading away from its public school roots.

Blame Football, H&S and George Osborne not the BBC

When you say public do you mean posh ?

I mean non state education.

by doctor_grey Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:59 pm

munkian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:I'm still rather unsure what the ensuing agenda the BBC are being accused of here?

Anti En-gur-land ?

Mate, I don't see the problem with the article. Simply pointing out there are other avenues into Rugby than the posh schools? I can't see this as a shot against England. Hoping I am not missing something?

by donglewood Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:23 am

doctor_grey wrote:
munkian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:I'm still rather unsure what the ensuing agenda the BBC are being accused of here?

Anti En-gur-land ?
Mate, I don't see the problem with the article. Simply pointing out there are other avenues into Rugby than the posh schools? I can't see this as a shot against England. Hoping I am not missing something?

Hey doc! Done myself a bit of an injury. Heard and felt a sort of popping sound somewhere deepish under my right rib. Hurts like hell to cough or sneeze or breath, or lift my left arm. Other than that, no pain.

Do you reckon I should be worried?

You are a real doctor, like of medicine and everything, right?

by ChequeredJersey Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:24 am

donglewood wrote:
munkian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:I'm still rather unsure what the ensuing agenda the BBC are being accused of here?

Anti En-gur-land ?

It's an odd thing how non-English Brits think the BBC is pro-England. The English seem to think the BBC is anti-English. Those of left-wing persuasion think the BBC is a right-wing propaganda mill, and right-wingers believe the BBC is a tiresome tee-total cardigan wearing socialist vegetarian human rights activist.

I guess it depends on your perspective and the amount of ambient light, or something.

Likely means it is largely unbiased, really. Or that one group is more deluded than the others

by Gwlad Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:44 am

donglewood wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
munkian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:I'm still rather unsure what the ensuing agenda the BBC are being accused of here?

Anti En-gur-land ?
Mate, I don't see the problem with the article. Simply pointing out there are other avenues into Rugby than the posh schools? I can't see this as a shot against England. Hoping I am not missing something?

Hey doc! Done myself a bit of an injury. Heard and felt a sort of popping sound somewhere deepish under my right rib. Hurts like hell to cough or sneeze or breath, or lift my left arm. Other than that, no pain.

Do you reckon I should be worried?

You are a real doctor, like of medicine and everything, right?

if you only had a brain

by doctor_grey Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:32 am

donglewood wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
munkian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:I'm still rather unsure what the ensuing agenda the BBC are being accused of here?

Anti En-gur-land ?
Mate, I don't see the problem with the article. Simply pointing out there are other avenues into Rugby than the posh schools? I can't see this as a shot against England. Hoping I am not missing something?

Hey doc! Done myself a bit of an injury. Heard and felt a sort of popping sound somewhere deepish under my right rib. Hurts like hell to cough or sneeze or breath, or lift my left arm. Other than that, no pain.

Do you reckon I should be worried?

You are a real doctor, like of medicine and everything, right?

Yes, I am a real doc. Trained in Haiti under the best voodoo (witch)doctors. I suggest you sacrifice a chicken and look at the entrails. If they smell bad, then your nose is working fine.............

Presuming you are not pregnant, a pop under the ribs with your symptoms could well be a strained rib cage muscle. They connect to the upper body and hurts a lot when you move your rib cage. Unfortunately, that includes breathing, and especially sneezing. If it persists for a week or so without improvement you may have a cracked rib which also hurts like a mother. It might also be Pleurisy, an infection of the abdominal and chest cavity walls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX3wGWHRlXQ

by Gwlad Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:03 am

or chondritis or indeed carcinoma.

by donglewood Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:14 am

doctor_grey wrote:
donglewood wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
munkian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:I'm still rather unsure what the ensuing agenda the BBC are being accused of here?

Anti En-gur-land ?
Mate, I don't see the problem with the article. Simply pointing out there are other avenues into Rugby than the posh schools? I can't see this as a shot against England. Hoping I am not missing something?

Hey doc! Done myself a bit of an injury. Heard and felt a sort of popping sound somewhere deepish under my right rib. Hurts like hell to cough or sneeze or breath, or lift my left arm. Other than that, no pain.

Do you reckon I should be worried?

You are a real doctor, like of medicine and everything, right?
Yes, I am a real doc. Trained in Haiti under the best voodoo (witch)doctors. I suggest you sacrifice a chicken and look at the entrails. If they smell bad, then your nose is working fine.............

Presuming you are not pregnant, a pop under the ribs with your symptoms could well be a strained rib cage muscle. They connect to the upper body and hurts a lot when you move your rib cage. Unfortunately, that includes breathing, and especially sneezing. If it persists for a week or so without improvement you may have a cracked rib which also hurts like a mother. It might also be Pleurisy, an infection of the abdominal and chest cavity walls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX3wGWHRlXQ

Thanks doc! I doubt it's Pleurisy, it happened during a particularly bad bout of post celubrial regurgutation of the imbibed nectar variety so I'm guessing it's either the rub or the rib cage muscle. Many thanks for the web consultation! I'm indebted! Was starting to worry I'd blown out me liver or something!

by **George Carlin** Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:59 am

They actually used the word 'posh' in a headline?

I think if you were to ask 10 different people what that word meant, you would get a variety of different answers.

by munkian Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:48 am

George Carlin wrote:They actually used the word 'posh' in a headline?

I think if you were to ask 10 different people what that word meant, you would get a variety of different answers.

My first thought would be English, Public school education

by **George Carlin** Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:50 am

I think a lot of people believe it just refers to the way in which you speak.

by munkian Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:56 am

George Carlin wrote:I think a lot of people believe it just refers to the way in which you speak.

Wobshaw certainly doesn't sound posh

by No 7&1/2 Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:09 am

Why 'Wobshaw'?

by munkian Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:11 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why 'Wobshaw'?

Have you not heard him speak ?

by No 7&1/2 Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:12 am

Yes. And?

by munkian Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:13 am

Forget it.

by No 7&1/2 Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:31 am

That you're being a bit of a richard taking the mick out of someone like you're at school?

by munkian Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:33 am

Im not sure what is done or said at public school but mine was a little more harrowing than calling someone 'Wobshaw'

Get over yourself eh.

by No 7&1/2 Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:36 am

Doesn't matter, grow up.

by Poorfour Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:02 am

The article kind of misses its own point, doesn't it? It makes it very clear that the underlying issue is simply that kids only play rugby at state school when coaches teach it, so surely the problem is simply that there aren't enough rugby coaches in state schools?

Rugby has had a problem with most academy recruitment coming from private schools, but the RFU has invested in widening the net (Quins were apparently a bit startled when the RFU coaches brought them Kyle Sinckler from Battersea Ironsides). But we do need more investment in playing rugby in schools.

The beeb aren't the only ones - the Telegraph had this little gem:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/11859913/Rugby-uncovered-Union-is-the-dirtiest-sport-in-Britain-and-its-doping-problem-is-growing.html

While I've no basis to argue with its facts, and there is a genuine point about a growing (and worrying) culture of kids taking food supplements, it massively oversensationalises the point. More bans for use of prohibited substances came from rugby than other sports - but the article rather blithely dismisses two relevant facts: a) rugby has a much larger active playing base than most other sports and b) a large proportion of the bans seem to be kids taking stuff they thought was legal - which is a very different problem (and intent) from large scale systematic doping - which doesn't appear to be an issue, given a positive test rate of 0.5% among pro players.

They also championed Prof Allyson Pollock's Tackling Rugby - a book that raises important questions about injury rates for young players and then fails utterly to explore them in an unbiased way:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tackling-Rugby-Allyson-M-Pollock/dp/1781686025/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442305151&sr=8-1&keywords=tackling+rugby

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