Lions vs Barbarians Player Ratings

Here's how I saw the players. Be interesting to see all of yours.


Hogg: 7 - Some good touches but the BaBas barely kicked so didn't get much of a chance to see him counter

Cuthbert: 8 - Took his two tries very well and put himself in pole position early on

Davies: 8 - Had some great moments but a couple of wobbles here and there dropped his score, in better conditions he will thrive

Roberts: 7 - Great solid game from the big centre

Maitland: 5 - Looked a bit wobbly and failed to take his try chance, was good in defence and rucked well but overall not great

Farrell: 3 - A terrible day at the office. What was most worrying was his retaliation to punch.

Phillips: 9 - A well deserved MOTM performance. Very dangerous around the fringes. Passing wasn't great but that's not his strength

Vunipola: 5 - Was pretty quiet all round

Hibbard: 6 - Had some good carries and rucks but didn't get a chance to impress himself on the game

A Jones: 7 - Some great passes and put himself about the field

Gray: 7 - Made a couple of good runs and was the go-to man in the lineout but wasn't quite at his best

O'Connell: 8 - Scored a very good try and bossed the game well.

Lydiate: 8 - Very good game

Tipuric: 8 - Same as above

Faletau: 7 - Solid but a bit quieter than he had been in the 6Nations.

Replacements:

T. Youngs: 5 - Wonky lineout throw but didn't look out of place in the loose

Healy: 8 - Had a couple of very good runs and looked strong in the scrum.

Stevens: 5 - Made little impact.

A. W Jones: 7 - Did everything asked of him and finished off a try well.

Heaslip: 7 - Was strong when he came on but didn't have time to make a big impact.

Murray: 7 - Picked up where Phillips left off.

Sexton: 5 - Was poor with the boot and didn't get enough ball time to impress.

North: 6 - Had a good run but needs to start on Wednesday to put his hand up.

Would probably change the following. The second rows were excellent.

Phillips: 6 - A scrum half cannot pass like that, it's his first job. Possibly a result of conditions though.

Mako V: 7 - Played well, dominated in the scrum, good work-rate.

Farell: 5 - Possibly 4. Passing was poor but from terrible ball from Phillips. Kicking was decent, tackling fine. Lost his rag which is a worry, but it was a straight punch from a hooker so he did well not to throw any back. I don't think there was much chance he'd start ahead of Sexton for the tests anyhow.

I'd change...

front row 6 allrounds

POC - 7 (retired early for the 8)

Grey - 7 (wasn't the same second half)

Lydiate - 6 (started poor but got better)

Tipuric - 8 possibly 9 but died off late on

Falatau - 7 bit nervous but got better

Phillips - 7 carried superbly, but faltered elsewhere

Farell - 5 looked very creaky under pressure, but kicked well

Roberts 8 - looked classy as well as a huge physical presence

Rest of the backline - 7 disjointed but did well individually.

Stevens was the big dissapointment, offered nothing and just flopped onto rucks after won/lost!!!

Vunipola: 5 - Very quiet?

Lydiate: 8 - Very good game??

I honestly wonder if I was watching the same game that other people were sometimes.

What on earth did Lydiate do all game, Mad?

I think your average score is too high, there should be more 7s rather than 8s.

Roberts was the pick of the outside backs for me.

Vunipola was much better than a 5, he was the best FR player until Healy appeared. Healy made the big runs but Vunipola showed some really nice touches of the ball and awareness in open play.

Gray was on a par with O'Connell, carried well, worked well in the tight, the Lions top tackler and lineout taker.

No way was Lydiate as good as the rest of his BR partners.

gelodge wrote:I think your average score is too high, there should be more 7s rather than 8s.

Roberts was the pick of the outside backs for me.

Vunipola was much better than a 5, he was the best FR player until Healy appeared. Healy made the big runs but Vunipola showed some really nice touches of the ball and awareness in open play.

Gray was on a par with O'Connell, carried well, worked well in the tight, the Lions top tackler and lineout taker.

No way was Lydiate as good as the rest of his BR partners.

Agree with every word, Healy really looked like a step up from Vunipola though don't you think, similarly Stevens made Jones look a class above too.

I thought Adam Jones was insanely good. He is a big lad and not fit but even in this heat he scrummed well but more importantly made an impact at a very impressive amount of rucks. I was seriously impressed with him.

I thought Philips was great, not sure that style of 9 will work against Aus but sure we'll see how he gets on as the tour develops, great performance in this game.

Tipuric was also really good, taking offloads and giving offloads. Very impressive line-running. Great player and so intelligent.

Farrell was very poor IMO. He got charged down 2 or 3 times and kicked poorly at times. Also his passing was very poor for a flyhalf in those conditions or not

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I thought Adam Jones was insanely good. He is a big lad and not fit but even in this heat he scrummed well but more importantly made an impact at a very impressive amount of rucks. I was seriously impressed with him.

I thought Philips was great, not sure that style of 9 will work against Aus but sure we'll see how he gets on as the tour develops, great performance in this game.

Tipuric was also really good, taking offloads and giving offloads. Very impressive line-running. Great player and so intelligent.

Farrell was very poor IMO. He got charged down 2 or 3 times and kicked poorly at times. Also his passing was very poor for a flyhalf in those conditions or not

As much as I have defended Phillips here I find this quote odd. If the 9's passing is poor to you, and every other player on the park is struggling how do you justify picking Farells distribution out as criticism?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I thought Adam Jones was insanely good. He is a big lad and not fit but even in this heat he scrummed well but more importantly made an impact at a very impressive amount of rucks. I was seriously impressed with him.

I thought Philips was great, not sure that style of 9 will work against Aus but sure we'll see how he gets on as the tour develops, great performance in this game.

Tipuric was also really good, taking offloads and giving offloads. Very impressive line-running. Great player and so intelligent.

Farrell was very poor IMO. He got charged down 2 or 3 times and kicked poorly at times. Also his passing was very poor for a flyhalf in those conditions or not

Just said the same re Adam jones in open play. Had a very good game tonight.


I think the OP has the ratings about right.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I thought Adam Jones was insanely good. He is a big lad and not fit but even in this heat he scrummed well but more importantly made an impact at a very impressive amount of rucks. I was seriously impressed with him.

I thought Philips was great, not sure that style of 9 will work against Aus but sure we'll see how he gets on as the tour develops, great performance in this game.

Tipuric was also really good, taking offloads and giving offloads. Very impressive line-running. Great player and so intelligent.

Farrell was very poor IMO. He got charged down 2 or 3 times and kicked poorly at times. Also his passing was very poor for a flyhalf in those conditions or not

As much as I have defended Phillips here I find this quote odd. If the 9's passing is poor to you, and every other player on the park is struggling how do you justify picking Farells distribution out as criticism?

Philips' passing wasn't that bad and he offered so much aside from that. No one has mentioned his kicking either which was great too. Philips' passing also always made it to his man even if it was a bit loopy at times, Farrell's frequently didn't make it to his man. Also as a scrumhalf/flyhalf myself, I would point out that passing off the deck is considerably harder than when the ball is in your hands.

To be honest I thought Farrell was very, very poor aside from his goal-kicking. He should get another go soon to get back on the horse and he is mentally pretty tough so should have no issue with it. There are only 6 games though so he has to make them count

thebluesmancometh wrote:

gelodge wrote:I think your average score is too high, there should be more 7s rather than 8s.

Roberts was the pick of the outside backs for me.

Vunipola was much better than a 5, he was the best FR player until Healy appeared. Healy made the big runs but Vunipola showed some really nice touches of the ball and awareness in open play.

Gray was on a par with O'Connell, carried well, worked well in the tight, the Lions top tackler and lineout taker.

No way was Lydiate as good as the rest of his BR partners.

Agree with every word, Healy really looked like a step up from Vunipola though don't you think, similarly Stevens made Jones look a class above too.

Yeah, I may be biased, but Healy would always be my test starter. Vunipola definitely went up in my estimation on that perfromance though, I liked what he added, it's always nice to see a big prop look like a threat carrying but show good hands in contact to shift the point of attack. Jenkins is good at that as well, and I think either of them doing that off the bench could be pretty profitable. Nice to see no real weak link in that position, whereas Stevens looks like one on the other side.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

gelodge wrote:I think your average score is too high, there should be more 7s rather than 8s.

Roberts was the pick of the outside backs for me.

Vunipola was much better than a 5, he was the best FR player until Healy appeared. Healy made the big runs but Vunipola showed some really nice touches of the ball and awareness in open play.

Gray was on a par with O'Connell, carried well, worked well in the tight, the Lions top tackler and lineout taker.

No way was Lydiate as good as the rest of his BR partners.

Agree with every word, Healy really looked like a step up from Vunipola though don't you think, similarly Stevens made Jones look a class above too.

I thought Healy looked, and is, a better player than Mako, but I was trying to work out how much of that was because the Baa Baas were tiring. Difficult to say. I think he's more consistent than Vunipola, and a safer bet, but I'd be very happy if either started the Tests. Stevens was a baffling choice I think. A player who scrummages pretty poorly on both sides is not versatile.

I think that 22 of the 23 Lions players will be pretty happy with their performances. O'Connell and Grey were very good, Faletau and Adam Jones were also. Behind the scrum; Phillips was outstanding, not the greatest passer of the ball but wrap him in cotton wool now for the tests. Also I though both centres looked very good.

Of the replacements; Healy, Alan Wyn Jones, Murray and Sexton all can be very pleased with their contributions.

Apart from his goal kicking, Farrell was very poor. I would start him again in the next game and if he is not a whole lot better, send for a replacement!

Hood83 wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

gelodge wrote:I think your average score is too high, there should be more 7s rather than 8s.

Roberts was the pick of the outside backs for me.

Vunipola was much better than a 5, he was the best FR player until Healy appeared. Healy made the big runs but Vunipola showed some really nice touches of the ball and awareness in open play.

Gray was on a par with O'Connell, carried well, worked well in the tight, the Lions top tackler and lineout taker.

No way was Lydiate as good as the rest of his BR partners.

Agree with every word, Healy really looked like a step up from Vunipola though don't you think, similarly Stevens made Jones look a class above too.

I thought Healy looked, and is, a better player than Mako, but I was trying to work out how much of that was because the Baa Baas were tiring. Difficult to say. I think he's more consistent than Vunipola, and a safer bet, but I'd be very happy if either started the Tests. Stevens was a baffling choice I think. A player who scrummages pretty poorly on both sides is not versatile.

Vunipola had a few talking too's in the scrum though for his head and body positioning, and it's not the first time. His scrummaging tech is a bit ropy, but that aside he's a good option, I have no probs with him or Jenkins off the bench!!!

Stevens I thought might have been inspired at the time, but he looked dire, and I'd much prefer James or Wilson to cover, even Ross

It's difficult to grade players at this stage as the Barbarians were woeful.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:It's difficult to grade players at this stage as the Barbarians were woeful.

until the 1st test, the quality of the opposition is unlikely to get any better.

I knew you would highlight how 'woefull' the Barbs were Cyzil, infact they were a lot better than last weak and pretty competitive considering!!

Lions pack were just too powerfull though and dominated!!

Vunipola - 6
Hibbard - 6
Jones -7
gray -7
POC - 7
Lydiate - 6
Tiperic - 7
faleatu - 6
phillips - 8
farrell - 3
roberts - 8
Davies - 7
Maitland - 6
Cuthbert - 7
Hogg - 7

Mako - 6 - Started of nervously but grew into the game and showed his carrying ability throughout.
Hibbard - 6 - Felt he struggled a bit at line-out and would like to see him carry round the fringes more. Was ferocious in hitting rucks however.
Jones - 6 - Got lucky at the scrum I felt but threw his weight around in the loose and hit lots of rucks
Gray - 7
O'Connell - 8 -Both second rows really impressed but Gray faded in second half I felt. POC's class showed throughout though and he led the forwards very well in tough conditions for a big unit!
Lydiate - 5 - Not really his sort of game as the Baa Baas lack of possession meant he couldn't impose himself defensively as he usually would, but was a bit anonymous I felt. Give him time and his class will show on the tour though.
Tipuric - 8 - really good all round game from the openside but I'd like to see him carry more in the outside channels.
Faletau - 7 - grew into the game and really showed his strength towards the end

Phillips - 7 - He was very strong round the fringes but tried to carry a bit too much himself and his distribution, whilst not as bad as many are making out, was still not great.
Farrell - 5 - Struggled with his distribution as most people did but kicked and tackled well for the most part. Loses a point for the incident with Brits though.

Maitland - 6 - Solid game without much ball for him, really showed his pace for the half chance early on and showed his good core skills by not making basic errors where many would've done in those conditions.
Roberts - 7
Davies - 8 - Really good game for both centres in tough conditions and great to see them back to form
Cuthbert - 7 - Took his two tries well but wasn't really tested in defence
Hogg - 7 - Really looked for ball all game and came very close to a couple of tries. Always looked dangerous with his pace and strength, plus he kicked well from hand.

these are my ratings

Hogg - 7 solid and tried to get himself into the game, got on the shoulder a couple of times and just didnt quite come off for him.

cuthbert - 7 took his tries well, liked his decision to run it from his own 22 and pop the ball up which almost resulted in a length of field try. BUT i question his decision making in defence, at fault for roco's try for flying out of the line and aussies will target him should he start.

Davies - 7 again some very good runs and offloads showed good understanding with roberts

Roberts - 8 put his hand up time and time again as a carrier taking pressure of sexton. Some good angles and offloads as well as hands, the pick of outside backs for me.

Maitland - 6 looked nervy couple of knock ons and found it hard to get into the game.

farrell - 5 showed again his poor temperament when his game went wayward in the 10 minutes after brits punch. Charged down a couple of times and stands far too deep for my liking.

phillips - 8 would be 9 but for some wayward passing, like roberts and o connell lead the way with his ball carrying and marshalling of players around him.

faletau - 8 18 carries, consistantly takes 2-3 men to bring him down and got some good offloads in.
.
tipuric - 8 was very good link man tracked the ball uite well and always popped up on shoulder.

lydiate - 6 very quiet game but then you will not see alot of the dirty work that suits his game, grew as game went on

O connell - 8 very impressive, lead from the front, first to many rucks and carried well, a true leaders performance and a go to person.

Gray - 8 like O connell very good particulaly in loose and tackles made. V good athlete. The other sr's have to produce to give themselves a look in at test.

Jones - 8 whether lucky or not the guy dominated scrum time and hit his rucks. Thats what you get from adam and he did his job well today.

Hibbard - 7 hit his lineouts but quiet in ball carrying compared to what he is capable of.

Vunipolo - 8 had the measure of castro and carried well as well as linking with other players.

Hubbard over throws two or three at the lineout in the first half, Tom Youngs screws his first and the his man with every other throw and it's Youngs who gets labelled as having a wonky throw. Hmm.

Vunipola had a good game, Healy looked better but you'd expect that given Healy is late 20s and in the peak of powers whilst Mako is 22 and only there as possible impact sub during the tests.

Phillips blew a couple of chances by carrying when there were men outside and a couple more on top of that through some woeful passing. Fair does he grabbed a brace and was an additional flanker in the loose. He's got to sort out his passing ans decision making as the Aussie defence will be far better drilled than that of the Baabaas.

LondonTiger wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:It's difficult to grade players at this stage as the Barbarians were woeful.

until the 1st test, the quality of the opposition is unlikely to get any better.

Yeah, that's worrying for the Lions. They could be a bit undercooked by test time.

I have to admit I'm a bit bemused by the motm given to Phillips by Sky as even though he scored twice I thought he was mediocre at best! So slow, sloppy passing (although conditions looked horrible!). Having side that if he was playing 6 he would have had a good day!

formerly known as Sam wrote:Hubbard over throws two or three at the lineout in the first half, Tom Youngs screws his first and the his man with every other throw and it's Youngs who gets labelled as having a wonky throw. Hmm.

Vunipola had a good game, Healy looked better but you'd expect that given Healy is late 20s and in the peak of powers whilst Mako is 22 and only there as possible impact sub during the tests.

Phillips blew a couple of chances by carrying when there were men outside and a couple more on top of that through some woeful passing. Fair does he grabbed a brace and was an additional flanker in the loose. He's got to sort out his passing ans decision making as the Aussie defence will be far better drilled than that of the Baabaas.

Hibbard over threw 1 at the back, and the other that went wayward was Lydiate taking his eye off the ball, there was also 1 where it was pinched from POC.

Youngs misthrew his first to the front, there is a bit of difference, Youngs also only made 1 after that.

Both hookers weren't great, but I don't see Youngs getting better.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I have to admit I'm a bit bemused by the motm given to Phillips by Sky as even though he scored twice I thought he was mediocre at best! So slow, sloppy passing (although conditions looked horrible!). Having side that if he was playing 6 he would have had a good day!

Distribution was poor (as it was for every player) but the rest of his game was cracking, he carried into space, run the attack, was immense in defence, but to call him slow? totally unjustified, and just rehashing old arguments!

Good to see Lions unity is still alive and well.

"My nation's player is brilliant and your's is rubbish" etc.

I'm looking at you bluesman.

Healy is 25...hardly late 20s

the official stats on bee say two lost lineouts, one of which were youngs crooked,

actually thought phillips speed of service was ok today

My numbers:

Hogg - 7

Showed great composure and at least he is running those great support lines - they will pay off in better conditions

Cuthbert - 7

Took his 2 tries very well, massively out of position for the Ba Ba's score

Davies - 7

Real classy player, BOD has got his work cut out

Roberts - 8

Back to his rampaging best - we really need him fit for the tests

Maitland - 6

Didn't do much wrong but was hardly involved. He is more suited to the right wing and if he had been playing there today he would have seen significantly more ball. Needs a big game next time

Farrell - 5

Great goal kicking and kicks to touch but his temperament is a real issue, and had some shocking handling and passing

Phillips - 8

Great all round play but his scrum half skills were poor. If he carries on like that you can forget about your backs having decent front foot ball. However for a certain game plan there's no one better in the world - will interesting to see what Gatland does.

Vunipola - 6

Solid if unspectacular, will be a handy player to have but not in the same league as Healy

Hibbard - 6

Solid if unspectacular again. Decent lineout but struggled in the heat


Jones - 7

Decent scrummaging but again struggled in the heat - will be looking forward to cooler conditions

Gray - 8

Part of an immense 2nd row partnership. Faded towards the end but that wasn't a surprise, and 80 mins in that kind of game will stand him in good stead. Good lineout work.

O'Connoll - 8

A real captains performance, and formed a good partnership with Gray

Lydiate - 6

Didn't really notice him and not his kind of game. He's the man you want if you expect the other team to get a lot of ball, but I just don't think that is how the Lions will be looking to play.

Tipuric - 7

HE's a great support runner but still not convinced he does enough of the dirty work you need for a 7. Still, a fantastic link man and if the rest of the pack is picked accordingly to suit him he can be devestating

Faletau - 8

Does exactly what it says on the tin - gets you over the gainline. Over to you Jamie Heaslip!

Honourable mentions off the bench to AWJ, Healy and Murray.

Final point - Matt Stevens?? What a waste of a selection.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Good to see Lions unity is still alive and well.

"My nation's player is brilliant and your's is rubbish" etc.

I'm looking at you bluesman.

Why are you using quotations like I stated that? Who exactly am I refering to?

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Good to see Lions unity is still alive and well.

"My nation's player is brilliant and your's is rubbish" etc.

I'm looking at you bluesman.

Try looking in a mirror

Let's catch ourselves on here, even Phillips himself said his skills were poor. He is a scrum half, his passing has to be so much better than here today. If he was a 7 fair enough, good game, as a 9 he gets a 6 at best!

Just because Barnes embarrassed himself with his MOM award don't follow like lemmings. To give him 9 out of 10 for his performance and say 'his passing isnt his strong point' is laughable. ITS HIS JOB

Phillips is a good player, but if we want to win the tests he has to improve.

Tupuric, Gray, Roberts, Cuthbert, Mako, A Jones, POC all much superior to him today.

glamorganalun wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Good to see Lions unity is still alive and well.

"My nation's player is brilliant and your's is rubbish" etc.

I'm looking at you bluesman.

Try looking in a mirror

I don't believe I have actually criticised any players following the game (except the Barbarians who didn't really turn up again).

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Good to see Lions unity is still alive and well.

"My nation's player is brilliant and your's is rubbish" etc.

I'm looking at you bluesman.

Try looking in a mirror

I don't believe I have actually criticised any players following the game (except the Barbarians who didn't really turn up again).

No but you have questioned my ability to be neutral, please provide evidence...

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Good to see Lions unity is still alive and well.

"My nation's player is brilliant and your's is rubbish" etc.

I'm looking at you bluesman.

Try looking in a mirror

I don't believe I have actually criticised any players following the game (except the Barbarians who didn't really turn up again).

No but you have questioned my ability to be neutral, please provide evidence...

Try this link: https://www.606v2.com/u1605

thebluesmancometh wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I have to admit I'm a bit bemused by the motm given to Phillips by Sky as even though he scored twice I thought he was mediocre at best! So slow, sloppy passing (although conditions looked horrible!). Having side that if he was playing 6 he would have had a good day!

Distribution was poor (as it was for every player) but the rest of his game was cracking, he carried into space, run the attack, was immense in defence, but to call him slow? totally unjustified, and just rehashing old arguments!

We obviously disagree but even if I am rehashing an old argument I think it's true. Thought Murray looked better when he came on but there you go.

Please can we leave the personal stuff out and keep it to the rugby! It's always frustrating that times like these when rugby debate should be at its best brings along increased tension on the boards. Too many posters already feel the need to have a sabatical around these times due to this so let's please not see usually insightful posters fall down the lines of personal attacks!

logie28 wrote:Let's catch ourselves on here, even Phillips himself said his skills were poor. He is a scrum half, his passing has to be so much better than here today. If he was a 7 fair enough, good game, as a 9 he gets a 6 at best!

Just because Barnes embarrassed himself with his MOM award don't follow like lemmings. To give him 9 out of 10 for his performance and say 'his passing isnt his strong point' is laughable. ITS HIS JOB

Phillips is a good player, but if we want to win the tests he has to improve.

Tupuric, Gray, Roberts, Cuthbert, Mako, A Jones, POC all much superior to him today.

This is basically my thinking. I don't want to bang on endlessly about it, but his passing swings between very good and very poor, when it's the latter he's a very average scrum half. Given the tricky conditions, hopefully he'll pick it up. If he gets his distribution right he's head and shoulders above the other 9s, his defence and physicality are a brilliant addition. But if not, Genia is going to make him look very cumbersome. We have a collection of bulky backs, but if we want them to use this they'll need to hit quick ball at pace. I'm confident Phillips will improve given he noticed he was not quite there today. If he passes like he did in SA, we'll be fine.

Let me introduce the .5

Hogg 6.5 - Didn't do much wrong and ran some good lines but did not get the chance to show his counter-attacking ability.
Cuthbert 6.5 - Finished like we know he can but a bit quiet otherwise
Davies 7 - Added guile to the backline, certainly made the 13 shirt more than a two-horse race
Roberts 7.5 - A couple of handling errors but that can be forgiven with his classic powerful running
Maitland 5.5 - Didn't really threaten
Farrell 4 - Goalkicking was good. The rest was awful.
Phillips 7.5 His typical Jekyll and Hyde self, but all in all contributed more positive than negative

Vunipola 7 - Was part of a dominant scrum and showed some nice touches
Hibbard 5.5 - A bit disappointing in open play but strong at the set piece
Jones 7 - Decent workrate for a TH and won a lot of penalties
Gray 6.5 - Imposed himself well but understandably tired as the game progressed
O'Connell 7.5 - Untroubled at the lineout, usual fantastic workrate, even his carrying was a bit more dynamic than it has been for Ireland
Lydiate 5 - Wasn't his type of game but nonetheless he missed a chance to justify Gats' faith
Tipuric 7 - Pretty quiet in the first half but really impressed once the game opened up
Faletau 6.5 - Carried and did well in the Cuthbert try

Healy 7 - Reminded Vunipola he isn't the only dynamic prop
AWJ 6.5 - Added some more fizzikalitee
Murray 7 - I thought his service appeared much superior to Phillips, although wasn't put under any pressure
Sexton 6 - Despair for Hogg and Kearney as he played well enough to keep Farrell well behind but his poor goalkicking may necessitate a spot for Halfpenny

No 7&1/2 wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I have to admit I'm a bit bemused by the motm given to Phillips by Sky as even though he scored twice I thought he was mediocre at best! So slow, sloppy passing (although conditions looked horrible!). Having side that if he was playing 6 he would have had a good day!

Distribution was poor (as it was for every player) but the rest of his game was cracking, he carried into space, run the attack, was immense in defence, but to call him slow? totally unjustified, and just rehashing old arguments!

We obviously disagree but even if I am rehashing an old argument I think it's true. Thought Murray looked better when he came on but there you go.

I agree fully, but then in the latter stages when Murray came on he entered with his int partner, into a game won, and a defence whos legs had been run off. He also had the hindsight of adjusting for conditions that effected every players basic skillset. We all know the conditions were effecting players and by the 60th minute the game had slowed massively.

I'm not saying Phillips is the best player of all time, he does struggle with some aspects of his game, but it amazes me that nobody recognises the fact he's playing to such a rigid gameplan, is organising everything his team does, and constantly proven to score tries on the biggest stages.

I was a bit startled by the love for him on Sky, they essentially were salivating over the Genia Phillips battle and had them as the top 2 9's in world rugby, but then they have the ability to look at exactly what he does, not just snippets of int performances where people would prefer a headless chicken speed demon in a team that doesn't like speed!

Who needs a looshead when you have Adam Jones. World Class
Along with Jamie, Mike and O'Connell all starters for me in the first test (if none of them get injured)

Bit of a harsh rating on Vunipolo, done better than I thought he was going to do. But then again Adam helped him look good.

The OP's numbers were about right although I think most people are being harsh on Hibbard. I thought he did the basics very well - good line out throwing for example - and made a nuisance of himself in general. Hooker is a position of relative weakness and it is encouraging that he looked the part.
JD also was better than I remember and he and Roberts made a good looking pairing. BOD may have a bit of a job to get into the full test team
I must say that the conditions certainly didn't suit him but Vunipolo looked way off the pace which, against better opposition, would make life v tough at scrum time if he is really blowing out of his hoop
Lastly, I am taking comfort from the fact that (hopefully anyway!) Farrell can't play that badly again. Or has Maurice Flitcroft taken up rugby?

thebluesmancometh wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I have to admit I'm a bit bemused by the motm given to Phillips by Sky as even though he scored twice I thought he was mediocre at best! So slow, sloppy passing (although conditions looked horrible!). Having side that if he was playing 6 he would have had a good day!

Distribution was poor (as it was for every player) but the rest of his game was cracking, he carried into space, run the attack, was immense in defence, but to call him slow? totally unjustified, and just rehashing old arguments!

We obviously disagree but even if I am rehashing an old argument I think it's true. Thought Murray looked better when he came on but there you go.

I agree fully, but then in the latter stages when Murray came on he entered with his int partner, into a game won, and a defence whos legs had been run off. He also had the hindsight of adjusting for conditions that effected every players basic skillset. We all know the conditions were effecting players and by the 60th minute the game had slowed massively.

I'm not saying Phillips is the best player of all time, he does struggle with some aspects of his game, but it amazes me that nobody recognises the fact he's playing to such a rigid gameplan, is organising everything his team does, and constantly proven to score tries on the biggest stages.

I was a bit startled by the love for him on Sky, they essentially were salivating over the Genia Phillips battle and had them as the top 2 9's in world rugby, but then they have the ability to look at exactly what he does, not just snippets of int performances where people would prefer a headless chicken speed demon in a team that doesn't like speed!

To be fair we all get to see him at the bottom of rucks as Tipuric plays 9!

No 7&1/2 wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I have to admit I'm a bit bemused by the motm given to Phillips by Sky as even though he scored twice I thought he was mediocre at best! So slow, sloppy passing (although conditions looked horrible!). Having side that if he was playing 6 he would have had a good day!

Distribution was poor (as it was for every player) but the rest of his game was cracking, he carried into space, run the attack, was immense in defence, but to call him slow? totally unjustified, and just rehashing old arguments!

We obviously disagree but even if I am rehashing an old argument I think it's true. Thought Murray looked better when he came on but there you go.

I agree fully, but then in the latter stages when Murray came on he entered with his int partner, into a game won, and a defence whos legs had been run off. He also had the hindsight of adjusting for conditions that effected every players basic skillset. We all know the conditions were effecting players and by the 60th minute the game had slowed massively.

I'm not saying Phillips is the best player of all time, he does struggle with some aspects of his game, but it amazes me that nobody recognises the fact he's playing to such a rigid gameplan, is organising everything his team does, and constantly proven to score tries on the biggest stages.

I was a bit startled by the love for him on Sky, they essentially were salivating over the Genia Phillips battle and had them as the top 2 9's in world rugby, but then they have the ability to look at exactly what he does, not just snippets of int performances where people would prefer a headless chicken speed demon in a team that doesn't like speed!

To be fair we all get to see him at the bottom of rucks as Tipuric plays 9!

Which is exactly what you'll see with Youngs and Murray playing too

thebluesmancometh wrote:

gelodge wrote:I think your average score is too high, there should be more 7s rather than 8s.

Roberts was the pick of the outside backs for me.

Vunipola was much better than a 5, he was the best FR player until Healy appeared. Healy made the big runs but Vunipola showed some really nice touches of the ball and awareness in open play.

Gray was on a par with O'Connell, carried well, worked well in the tight, the Lions top tackler and lineout taker.

No way was Lydiate as good as the rest of his BR partners.

Agree with every word, Healy really looked like a step up from Vunipola though don't you think, similarly Stevens made Jones look a class above too.

I don't agree with your every word
Lydiate was most certainly on par, have another looksy and see all the dirty work that he cleaned up........... he's never going to be the headline runner but he was head and shoulders about his team mates in clearing up in the loose. Oh yes and he scored a try. Typical old fashioned effective blindside, wasn't as good as Gatland said he was, and he deffo can play much better but he was as effective as Toby and Tips. The one thing I was disappointed with Tips was he somehow manage to get turned over by a winger Rococoko even though all he had to do was dive onto the line.

I think Gray and O'Connell really complemented each other and I think the criticism of Maitland is unfair he would have scored that try in any other conditions and didn't have much of a chance otherwise.

You're probably right blues. I hope Youngs can put in a good performance on Wednesday though and just show something slightly different.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're probably right blues. I hope Youngs can put in a good performance on Wednesday though and just show something slightly different.

I see what your saying, but if he wants any shot at the test shirt he needs to execute the gameplan set out better than Phillips does, which means matching Phillips leadership, structure, defence and adding delivery, and snipes to his game.

It will be a huge undertaking but I hope he does give something for Gatland to think about

king_carlos wrote:Please can we leave the personal stuff out and keep it to the rugby! It's always frustrating that times like these when rugby debate should be at its best brings along increased tension on the boards. Too many posters already feel the need to have a sabatical around these times due to this so let's please not see usually insightful posters fall down the lines of personal attacks!

I think it is unfair to criticise Bluesman and not Cyril for their to and fro

irfon17 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Please can we leave the personal stuff out and keep it to the rugby! It's always frustrating that times like these when rugby debate should be at its best brings along increased tension on the boards. Too many posters already feel the need to have a sabatical around these times due to this so let's please not see usually insightful posters fall down the lines of personal attacks!

I think it is unfair to criticise Bluesman and not Cyril for their to and fro

What to and fro are we talking about? There are merely a number of to's and a number of questions by myself.