Lions vs Force Player Ratings

Here's how I saw the players. Feel free to disagree!



Leigh Halfpenny: 7 Another amazing kicking display. Not involved in many attacks and was skinned by Brown but a typically tidy display.
Tommy Bowe: 7 - Cut some lovely lines but needs to come in field more.
Brian O'Driscoll: 8 - Threatened well and created a lot of opportunities for others.
Manu Tuilagi: 7 – Not as noisy and destructive as usual but partnered well with BOD
George North: 7 -Like Bowe he didn’t come in off the wing as much as he could but had a few good bullocking runs.
Jonny Sexton: 9 – A near perfect display. Good try and marshaled the backline well.
Conor Murray: 6 - Solid if a little slow in delivery.
Cian Healy: Injured so didn’t get to see enough of him.
Rory Best: 5 – Not his best game, missed his jumpers on a few occasions.
Dan Cole: 4 – Was he playing?!
Alun Wyn Jones: 5 – Popped up here and there but looked a bit weak in the lineout.
Ian Evans: 4 – Utterly anonymous.
Tom Croft: 6 - Didn’t do much in the loose, was busy waiting on the wing to score his try!
Sean O'Brien: 8 - Pick of the forwards.
Jamie Heaslip : 8 – Looked very dangerous.

Vunipola: 7 – Looked dangerous in the loose but gave away a few penalties and free kicks in the scrum.
Stevens: 5 – Loped from scrum to scrum.
Parling: 7 - Looked very handy and scored his try well. The only lock to put his hand up today.
Faletau: Didn’t see enough of him.
Ben Youngs: 5 – Hoped he would add something extra but looked a bit pedestrian.
Farrell: 7 - Did very well scoring his try and had a far more solid game.
Maitland: Not on long enough to judge.

I would give Vunipola a 8 or 9

Faletau had a pretty good 15 minutes off the bench

I would give AWJ higher than 5

I think a lot of people are being overly critical of the tight 5, it was a wide open game, where quicker players ran from everywhere, and Vunipolas carrying was impressive but will mean nothing come test time, the space won't be there, the tacklers will be far more destructive, and we will be punished in the tight like the force did.

Watching Sexton having to make tackles under his own post While SOB, Heaslip and Evans are in the wider channells was worrying.

We need to stop focusing on the big ball carriers, and get our best options at tight 5 doing their jobs properly, the scrum and lineout will lose us the series if they continue like this, not to mention a lot of phase play is being ignored for the carries where our players are just too much for defence individuals to live with.

Before I get criticised too I think Norths ability to beat a man 1 on 1 was the difference in his and Bowes performances, Bowe didn't look as dangerous but his breaks and carries were born from set plays, and unit work, not just running the guy in front over, which won't happen come test time.

Can't agree with your rating for Stevens. He made about 4 tackles in 40 seconds when we were defending on the line.

[quote="thebluesmancometh"]

Watching Sexton having to make tackles under his own post While SOB, Heaslip and Evans are in the wider channells was worrying.

[quote]

Same could be said of any outhalf. Sexton's tackling is generally very good which is probably why he was left to defend the fringes. It didnt work too well for the McCaffrey try though. Wouldnt be too worried about it though.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Watching Sexton having to make tackles under his own post While SOB, Heaslip and Evans are in the wider channells was worrying.

Same could be said of any outhalf. Sexton's tackling is generally very good which is probably why he was left to defend the fringes. It didnt work too well for the McCaffrey try though. Wouldnt be too worried about it though.

Those ratings are too low for AWJ, Cole and Croft. Evans was not prominant but certainly deserves more than a 4. Sexton did well, but it wasn't a 9.

GunsGerms wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Watching Sexton having to make tackles under his own post While SOB, Heaslip and Evans are in the wider channells was worrying.

Same could be said of any outhalf. Sexton's tackling is generally very good which is probably why he was left to defend the fringes. It didnt work too well for the McCaffrey try though. Wouldnt be too worried about it though.

Thats what I meant though, if our back row and tight 5 aren't competing in the tight Aus will just steam roll us, as the Force forwards did to such easy effect today!!!

Tipuric, Falatau and Lydiate were much more effective in the tight last weekend defencively (not that i'm comparing performances)

thebluesmancometh wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Watching Sexton having to make tackles under his own post While SOB, Heaslip and Evans are in the wider channells was worrying.

Same could be said of any outhalf. Sexton's tackling is generally very good which is probably why he was left to defend the fringes. It didnt work too well for the McCaffrey try though. Wouldnt be too worried about it though.

Thats what I meant though, if our back row and tight 5 aren't competing in the tight Aus will just steam roll us, as the Force forwards did to such easy effect today!!!

Tipuric, Falatau and Lydiate were much more effective in the tight last weekend defencively (not that i'm comparing performances)

I don't usually agree with Blues on much, but on this one he's spot on. Actually think Croft put in a decent shift in the tight today at times, but there wasn't any sort of balance to the backrow today. Very much think we need Lydiate back for the tests. At the moment my XV would look something like

Vunipola
? (no one's really put their hand up at hooker for me yet)
Jones
Jones
Gray/Parling
Lydiate
Warburton (I wouldn't pick him, but he's captain so Gatland will)
Heaslip
Philips
Sexton
North
Tuilagi
O'Driscoll
Bowe
Hogg

I would of given Tuilagi a higher rating as well tbh, he played outstandingly well i thought! He had his usual strong ball carrying but mixed it up with some good passes and offloads, didn't give away any penalties and made all his tackles.
Every time he carries the ball it takes 3 players just to get him down and even if he doesn't get get it he occupies their thoughts. He showed good variety today which a lot of people have been wanting from him!

If there is one rating there I agree with its the 4 for Evans, did absolutely nothing in the whole match in any area of play.

It is very diffcult to reate players in a match as lopsided as this.

You could perhpas look at the execution of set pieces as an indication of where Gatland is with getting the players to gell and understand each other. You could perhaps judge communication in defence.

I will certainly give a pass mark on the overall ball retention, defences were suspect when looking at how few opportunities the Force had and yet scored three tries.

Discipline was a bit of a problem at scrum time with early hits etc. the Line outs went well but Best had a few poor throws.

Kick restarts I can remember Parling making a difference, on attack I liked the little offloads to the man (O'Driscoll) on the inside shoulder.

But overall it is hard to measure a player when they aren't required to perform under pressure.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I don't usually agree with Blues on much, but on this one he's spot on. Actually think Croft put in a decent shift in the tight today at times, but there wasn't any sort of balance to the backrow today. Very much think we need Lydiate back for the tests. At the moment my XV would look something like

Vunipola
? (no one's really put their hand up at hooker for me yet)
Jones
Jones
Gray/Parling
Lydiate
Warburton (I wouldn't pick him, but he's captain so Gatland will)
Heaslip
Philips
Sexton
North
Tuilagi
O'Driscoll
Bowe
Hogg

Strange, I thought Lydiate was one of the worst players for the Lions v the BaBas. Seemed to make a lot of basic mistakes and was sluggish enough.

Meflanker wrote:I would of given Tuilagi a higher rating as well tbh, he played outstandingly well i thought! He had his usual strong ball carrying but mixed it up with some good passes and offloads, didn't give away any penalties and made all his tackles.
Every time he carries the ball it takes 3 players just to get him down and even if he doesn't get get it he occupies their thoughts. He showed good variety today which a lot of people have been wanting from him!

As much as I defended him the other day on his attributes lending themselves to play 12 I was pleasantly surprised by his all round game, and how effective he was!

I think there areas we though were huge strengths of ours (backrow/lock/front row) are proving a bit of a worry, and the 'weaknesses' (centre/9) have proved much stronger than anyone gave them credit for.

Biltong wrote:It is very diffcult to reate players in a match as lopsided as this.

You could perhpas look at the execution of set pieces as an indication of where Gatland is with getting the players to gell and understand each other. You could perhaps judge communication in defence.

I will certainly give a pass mark on the overall ball retention, defences were suspect when looking at how few opportunities the Force had and yet scored three tries.

Discipline was a bit of a problem at scrum time with early hits etc. the Line outs went well but Best had a few poor throws.

Kick restarts I can remember Parling making a difference, on attack I liked the little offloads to the man (O'Driscoll) on the inside shoulder.

But overall it is hard to measure a player when they aren't required to perform under pressure.

Farce only scored two tries when the match was well and truly over as a contest.

Halfpenny: 7 - 10/10 for goal kicking. That was a thing of beauty. His defensive game was not bad, but Brown managed to snatch a ball of him in the air which was a little embarrassing, but by no means a disaster. In attack, he popped up a few times, but didn't really show anything too amazing. Hogg popped up in some very good positions in his game.

Bowe: 6.5 - Looked the business in the first 10 mins, but dropped off a bit. Took his try well, but Force defence was poor. Think he needs to get more involved in the midfield action. May well be he wasn't getting a lot of ball due to Tuilagi going himself a lot.

BOD: 7.5 - I thought he looked pretty good, but maybe a little off the mark at times. Nice tries!

Tuilagi: 8 - Played very well, made a lot of big carries and broke tackles well. Could do with passing a bit more though.

North: 7.5 - Big carries, but not much offloading. Had a great opportunity to pass to BOD in 2nd half but opted to carry, again, and Force snuffed him out and the Lions attacking advantage. He looked better than I've seen him play for a while though.

Sexton: 7.5 - He can do better, but that performance was very good. Loved his cross field kicks to wingers and into space. Bit more reliable than Farrell i think.

Murray: 7 - Bit slow i feel, but he was solid for most of the game. His passing from rucks was better than Phillips. He can challenge for a start, but needs to impress a bit more.

Heaslip: 9 - Epic performance. Huge carries, great defence. a MOM performance in my view.

SOB: 8 - Like Heaslip, but not quite as huge. Still, very good solid game for him.

Croft: 7.5 - Put his body on th line, made some nice hits. Could have been more effective at the breakdown, Force did well to disrupt and secure ball in that area of the game.

Evans: 5.5 - Did very little, quiet game for him, taken off for Parling in 2nd half and parling looked much better, making a good impact off the bench. Needs to up his game a bit due to the competition.

AWJ: 7.5 - Strong performance. not quite as effective as Gray and POC at the lineout and he didn't look as dangerous when carrying ball. But a very hard working performance and he never dropped off from start to finish.

Cole: 6 - Seemed a bit quiet, didn't look close to the standard of Jones. needs to work a bit harder.

Best: 6.5 - Not bad in the loose, but a bit off with his lineouts. Sure he'll come good in a few games.

Healy: 7 - Great up until he came off injured. Will be missed if he has to be replaced. But back up options are good.

bsando wrote:
Bowe: 6.5 - Looked the business in the first 10 mins, but dropped off a bit. Took his try well, but Force defence was poor. Think he needs to get more involved in the midfield action. May well be he wasn't getting a lot of ball due to Tuilagi going himself a lot.

Don't think that's fair on Tuilagi, who passed a lot today and only really ran either when it was a set move or when there was absolutely nothing on outside him. There weren't any obvious examples of Tuilagi going himself when a pass would have been a better option.

I was quite concerned about BOD. He has a terrible habit this season of trying too hard, because of the restrictions on his body, and we saw it again today with several poor passes and dropped balls. He also spent the last 15 mins running into won rucks and resting. I really hope he gets up to match pace soon, I man-love him to bits, but right now he is behind Tuilagi and Roberts for me, despite two very well taken trys.

Also, the backrow was pretty unbalanced and we will be punished with three marquee-type players in the tests, though Heaslip since the Amlin Semi's has been a revelation. I want to see Tipuric (7) Heaslip (8) SOB (6), with Croft on the bench, for a game to see how that goes.

I agree, it seemed pretty obvious today that Tuilagi was passing more often, in fact according to the stats he passed more often than any other back apart from Murray and Sexton (he made 9 passes and 11 carries according to ESPN).

wolfball wrote:I was quite concerned about BOD. He has a terrible habit this season of trying too hard, because of the restrictions on his body, and we saw it again today with several poor passes and dropped balls. He also spent the last 15 mins running into won rucks and resting. I really hope he gets up to match pace soon, I man-love him to bits, but right now he is behind Tuilagi and Roberts for me, despite two very well taken trys.

Are you having a laugh? What poor passes and dropped balls are you talking about? Cause there were none.

wolfball

Performance-wise he may be below Tuilagi and Roberts so far, but would you ever pair those two together? I think it's Davies he has to worry about.

thomh wrote:wolfball

Performance-wise he may be below Tuilagi and Roberts so far, but would you ever pair those two together? I think it's Davies he has to worry about.

I DO I DO I DO

O'Driscoll was easily one of the best players on the pitch today the idea that he is behind anyone is pretty funny to be honest.

GunsGerms wrote: Strange, I thought Lydiate was one of the worst players for the Lions v the BaBas. Seemed to make a lot of basic mistakes and was sluggish enough.

Then maybe it's just you (and actually a few other Irish), because you see nothing but fault every time Lydiate plays a game of rugby down to shear dislike for the guy. It's pretty sad that you all lose sleep over the thought of him on the rugby field. But you aren't the only culprits; the Scots hate Mike Phillips and just about everyone hates Owen Farrell; so don't think I'm picking on you.

Another good performance from the Lions without anyone really putting a foot wrong. I think us fans might have a better idea of the test team after this weekends game. One thing I do find funny though is that the player of the 6 Nations has a near faultless game and proves his worth yet again but some Scottish posters still look for ways/stats to try and convince everyone that Hogg is without a doubt the certified starter. Going by current form it's clearly Halfpenny to start, which can change within the next week or 2 of course.

The intensity of this game wasn't high enough to be perfectly honest. I felt like the tight five was in second gear the whole game and we had little to do to earn those big linebreaks and possession.

I hope the Reds offer a sterner challenge.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

wolfball wrote:I was quite concerned about BOD. He has a terrible habit this season of trying too hard, because of the restrictions on his body, and we saw it again today with several poor passes and dropped balls. He also spent the last 15 mins running into won rucks and resting. I really hope he gets up to match pace soon, I man-love him to bits, but right now he is behind Tuilagi and Roberts for me, despite two very well taken trys.

Are you having a laugh? What poor passes and dropped balls are you talking about? Cause there were none.

Rewatch it. I was concentrating on BOD throughout, i so want him to do well. Maybe I am being overly critical, but I think watching back over the match he himself wont be happy. More to do.

Artful_Dodger wrote:O'Driscoll was easily one of the best players on the pitch today the idea that he is behind anyone is pretty funny to be honest.

Thats the problem with BOD, he creates such blind faith in his kinsmen!

He was good today, distributed well, and took his tries well, but this is not Aus test team, and Davies is a far greater athlete. BOD's vision will always do damage when he's given time to be allowed to do so, but Aus will be a different animal, and I think Davies is a far safer option.

AWJ, Sexton and Tuilagi were my best players today.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

wolfball wrote:I was quite concerned about BOD. He has a terrible habit this season of trying too hard, because of the restrictions on his body, and we saw it again today with several poor passes and dropped balls. He also spent the last 15 mins running into won rucks and resting. I really hope he gets up to match pace soon, I man-love him to bits, but right now he is behind Tuilagi and Roberts for me, despite two very well taken trys.

Are you having a laugh? What poor passes and dropped balls are you talking about? Cause there were none.

There was one wide ball from Sexton which was dropped. Hardly a cause for concern for me though. BOD is likely to be the test starter and I think it's Davies that can try too hard.

The Saint wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: Strange, I thought Lydiate was one of the worst players for the Lions v the BaBas. Seemed to make a lot of basic mistakes and was sluggish enough.

Then maybe it's just you (and actually a few other Irish), because you see nothing but fault every time Lydiate plays a game of rugby down to shear dislike for the guy. It's pretty sad that you all lose sleep over the thought of him on the rugby field. But you aren't the only culprits; the Scots hate Mike Phillips and just about everyone hates Owen Farrell; so don't think I'm picking on you.

I didn't see any basic mistakes by Lydiate but he did look understandably short of match fitness and was struggling to get back onside at times in the second half. He'll be a lot better for it though and it was never going to be his sort of game anyway.

The Saint wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: Strange, I thought Lydiate was one of the worst players for the Lions v the BaBas. Seemed to make a lot of basic mistakes and was sluggish enough.

Then maybe it's just you (and actually a few other Irish), because you see nothing but fault every time Lydiate plays a game of rugby down to shear dislike for the guy. It's pretty sad that you all lose sleep over the thought of him on the rugby field. But you aren't the only culprits; the Scots hate Mike Phillips and just about everyone hates Owen Farrell; so don't think I'm picking on you.

Another good performance from the Lions without anyone really putting a foot wrong. I think us fans might have a better idea of the test team after this weekends game. One thing I do find funny though is that the player of the 6 Nations has a near faultless game and proves his worth yet again but some Scottish posters still look for ways/stats to try and convince everyone that Hogg is without a doubt the certified starter. Going by current form it's clearly Halfpenny to start, which can change within the next week or 2 of course.

Thats the problem with 1/2p, Welsh supporters are way too quick to shout his name from the rooftops as the best ever on the back of even a half decent display, which was what it was. Had 1/2p had a poor kicking day he would be miles behind Hoggs perfromance!

The Saint wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: Strange, I thought Lydiate was one of the worst players for the Lions v the BaBas. Seemed to make a lot of basic mistakes and was sluggish enough.

Then maybe it's just you (and actually a few other Irish), because you see nothing but fault every time Lydiate plays a game of rugby down to shear dislike for the guy. It's pretty sad that you all lose sleep over the thought of him on the rugby field. But you aren't the only culprits; the Scots hate Mike Phillips and just about everyone hates Owen Farrell; so don't think I'm picking on you.

Another good performance from the Lions without anyone really putting a foot wrong. I think us fans might have a better idea of the test team after this weekends game. One thing I do find funny though is that the player of the 6 Nations has a near faultless game and proves his worth yet again but some Scottish posters still look for ways/stats to try and convince everyone that Hogg is without a doubt the certified starter. Going by current form it's clearly Halfpenny to start, which can change within the next week or 2 of course.

To be honest I thought Lydiate wasnt great against the Barbarians either. But these sort of high scoring games aren't the best for a player like him to stand out in.
For me the 2 best backrow performances so far have been the two no.8's, if we assume Warburton will play against Queensland, it will be interesting to see who joins him in the backrow.

The Saint wrote: the Scots hate Mike Phillips

I think there's some truth in that. Probably down to the fact that we've always produced nippy scrum halves whose style is built on quick and accurate passing. I think Phillips is a very good player but I also do agree that his passing isn't what it could be. Whether the previous outweighs the latter is down to personal preference.

thomh wrote:

bsando wrote:
Bowe: 6.5 - Looked the business in the first 10 mins, but dropped off a bit. Took his try well, but Force defence was poor. Think he needs to get more involved in the midfield action. May well be he wasn't getting a lot of ball due to Tuilagi going himself a lot.

Don't think that's fair on Tuilagi, who passed a lot today and only really ran either when it was a set move or when there was absolutely nothing on outside him. There weren't any obvious examples of Tuilagi going himself when a pass would have been a better option.

That's Bowe you've quoted Thomh. I gave Tuilagi an 8, i thought he was very good today. I may have been a little harsh on his passing though as you say.

Bathman_in_London wrote:

The Saint wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: Strange, I thought Lydiate was one of the worst players for the Lions v the BaBas. Seemed to make a lot of basic mistakes and was sluggish enough.

Then maybe it's just you (and actually a few other Irish), because you see nothing but fault every time Lydiate plays a game of rugby down to shear dislike for the guy. It's pretty sad that you all lose sleep over the thought of him on the rugby field. But you aren't the only culprits; the Scots hate Mike Phillips and just about everyone hates Owen Farrell; so don't think I'm picking on you.

Another good performance from the Lions without anyone really putting a foot wrong. I think us fans might have a better idea of the test team after this weekends game. One thing I do find funny though is that the player of the 6 Nations has a near faultless game and proves his worth yet again but some Scottish posters still look for ways/stats to try and convince everyone that Hogg is without a doubt the certified starter. Going by current form it's clearly Halfpenny to start, which can change within the next week or 2 of course.

To be honest I thought Lydiate wasnt great against the Barbarians either. But these sort of high scoring games aren't the best for a player like him to stand out in.
For me the 2 best backrow performances so far have been the two no.8's, if we assume Warburton will play against Queensland, it will be interesting to see who joins him in the backrow.

I agree although the 2 8's have had a massive platform and exploited poor and struggling defences, I think as he has all year Tipuric has been the stand out back rower in just about every department, he is the only complete backrower we have at present.

Bathman_in_London

My guess is Heaslip. They've got to break the cycle of just alternating between the two every game at some point, and they'll want to start looking at different combinations ASAP. Either Lydiate or O'Brien could start at 6, though after a season out I'd think they'll want to try pairing Lydiate and Warburton together again.

bsando wrote:

thomh wrote:

bsando wrote:
Bowe: 6.5 - Looked the business in the first 10 mins, but dropped off a bit. Took his try well, but Force defence was poor. Think he needs to get more involved in the midfield action. May well be he wasn't getting a lot of ball due to Tuilagi going himself a lot.

Don't think that's fair on Tuilagi, who passed a lot today and only really ran either when it was a set move or when there was absolutely nothing on outside him. There weren't any obvious examples of Tuilagi going himself when a pass would have been a better option.

That's Bowe you've quoted Thomh. I gave Tuilagi an 8, i thought he was very good today. I may have been a little harsh on his passing though as you say.

Yeh I was specifically referring to the comment about Bowe not getting the ball because of Tuilagi. Your overall rating for Tuilagi was fair, I thought.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Thats the problem with 1/2p, Welsh supporters are way too quick to shout his name from the rooftops as the best ever on the back of even a half decent display, which was what it was. Had 1/2p had a poor kicking day he would be miles behind Hoggs perfromance!

No not me or any that I know, however he has been our best player for 2 seasons and thoroughly deserves his plaudits. I thought Hogg was alright against the Baa-baa's but not an ousting performance, yet.

Bathman_in_London wrote:
To be honest I thought Lydiate wasnt great against the Barbarians either. But these sort of high scoring games aren't the best for a player like him to stand out in.
For me the 2 best backrow performances so far have been the two no.8's, if we assume Warburton will play against Queensland, it will be interesting to see who joins him in the back row.

I believe all of the Lions have looked good in the opening two games. If I was to single out anyone for some poor play it would be performances from Farrell and Evans. I agree that the standout performances from the back row have been both No.8's. I thought Lydiate played quite well in the opening game and was convinced that nobody would be able to criticise him. Wrong again wasn't I. Apparently Lydiate is the most overrated player around, I don't think he's amazing but he does work incredibly well with Warbs and Toby for Wales. I find the hate being levelled on him pathetic yet when Wales fans try and discuss it we're told that we are being silly, can't accept criticism and are angry that our players aren't being worshiped as deities.

The Saint wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: Strange, I thought Lydiate was one of the worst players for the Lions v the BaBas. Seemed to make a lot of basic mistakes and was sluggish enough.

Then maybe it's just you (and actually a few other Irish), because you see nothing but fault every time Lydiate plays a game of rugby down to shear dislike for the guy. It's pretty sad that you all lose sleep over the thought of him on the rugby field. But you aren't the only culprits; the Scots hate Mike Phillips and just about everyone hates Owen Farrell; so don't think I'm picking on you.

Another good performance from the Lions without anyone really putting a foot wrong. I think us fans might have a better idea of the test team after this weekends game. One thing I do find funny though is that the player of the 6 Nations has a near faultless game and proves his worth yet again but some Scottish posters still look for ways/stats to try and convince everyone that Hogg is without a doubt the certified starter. Going by current form it's clearly Halfpenny to start, which can change within the next week or 2 of course.

No I just thought Lydiate was quite poor. If you watch the game back you will see he made a lot of mistakes, knockons, turnovers etc. and looked rusty which isnt really surprising given he was out of the game for a long spell.

No reason to dislike him at all just feel he was one of the Lions worst performers v the BaBas.

The Saint wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Thats the problem with 1/2p, Welsh supporters are way too quick to shout his name from the rooftops as the best ever on the back of even a half decent display, which was what it was. Had 1/2p had a poor kicking day he would be miles behind Hoggs perfromance!

No not me or any that I know, however he has been our best player for 2 seasons and thoroughly deserves his plaudits. I thought Hogg was alright against the Baa-baa's but not an ousting performance, yet.

Bathman_in_London wrote:
To be honest I thought Lydiate wasnt great against the Barbarians either. But these sort of high scoring games aren't the best for a player like him to stand out in.
For me the 2 best backrow performances so far have been the two no.8's, if we assume Warburton will play against Queensland, it will be interesting to see who joins him in the back row.

I believe all of the Lions have looked good in the opening two games. If I was to single out anyone for some poor play it would be performances from Farrell and Evans. I agree that the standout performances from the back row have been both No.8's. I thought Lydiate played quite well in the opening game and was convinced that nobody would be able to criticise him. Wrong again wasn't I. Apparently Lydiate is the most overrated player around, I don't think he's amazing but he does work incredibly well with Warbs and Toby for Wales. I find the hate being levelled on him pathetic yet when Wales fans try and discuss it we're told that we are being silly, can't accept criticism and are angry that our players aren't being worshiped as deities.

I agree 1/2p has been great for over 2 years, and I am constantly defending his performances, but today, kicking at goal aside he wasn't good, he was very average and offered little of his strengths

madmaccas wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: the Scots hate Mike Phillips

I think there's some truth in that. Probably down to the fact that we've always produced nippy scrum halves whose style is built on quick and accurate passing. I think Phillips is a very good player but I also do agree that his passing isn't what it could be. Whether the previous outweighs the latter is down to personal preference.

Hi Madmaccas, Please amend your post. I never said the above comment re Philips.

Saint

Also Lydiate was average, he looks rusty and nowhere near his former self yet.

GunsGerms wrote:

madmaccas wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: the Scots hate Mike Phillips

I think there's some truth in that. Probably down to the fact that we've always produced nippy scrum halves whose style is built on quick and accurate passing. I think Phillips is a very good player but I also do agree that his passing isn't what it could be. Whether the previous outweighs the latter is down to personal preference.

Hi Madmaccas, Please amend your post. I never said the above comment re Philips.

My apologies sir!

thomh wrote: pairing Lydiate and Warburton together again.

Yeah, I expect it will be the Welsh backrow again on Saturday - with Warbs instead of Tipuric

Maybe with SOB on the bench to come on at 6 (although Lydiate and Warbs could use the full 80 so it could be Heaslip)

Boys, I can almost guarantee this, Gatland will pick Tips at 7 and Warbs at 6, just like Wales did against England, and after their performances that day who would blame him for doing that. I reckon having them two on the flanks will allow Heaslip the reign to do his ball carrying and hard yard making, because Warburton and Tipuric are so quick they will be at every breakdown before the there is a breakdown.

Look I don't think either were great. I payed close attention to Danny in the first game and didn't see a high error count. I saw good fitness and some good carries with good tackling. He was also heavily involved in the lineout. Not back to his best yet after only playing for a few weeks,but not a bad start. I read most of the post match comments and there was hardly anything constructive in the discussion which is now what I've come to expect from the usual two nationalities, sadly. That's all I'm trying to say.

LordDowlais wrote:Boys, I can almost guarantee this, Gatland will pick Tips at 7 and Warbs at 6, just like Wales did against England, and after their performances that day who would blame him for doing that. I reckon having them two on the flanks will allow Heaslip the reign to do his ball carrying and hard yard making, because Warburton and Tipuric are so quick they will be at every breakdown before the there is a breakdown.

Youre probably right.

The Saint wrote:Look I don't think either were great. I payed close attention to Danny in the first game and didn't see a high error count. I saw good fitness and some good carries with good tackling. He was also heavily involved in the lineout. Not back to his best yet after only playing for a few weeks,but not a bad start. I read most of the post match comments and there was hardly anything constructive in the discussion which is now what I've come to expect from the usual two nationalities, sadly. That's all I'm trying to say.

I agree it was a poor performance but a great return to test rugby, he'll need to improve massively though, and I expect a similar performance from Warbs, a little safe.

Am a huge Evans fan but he was disappointing night, didn't put himself about like he is known for.

The Saint wrote:Look I don't think either were great. I payed close attention to Danny in the first game and didn't see a high error count. I saw good fitness and some good carries with good tackling. He was also heavily involved in the lineout. Not back to his best yet after only playing for a few weeks,but not a bad start. I read most of the post match comments and there was hardly anything constructive in the discussion which is now what I've come to expect from the usual two nationalities, sadly. That's all I'm trying to say.

You seem hell bent on categorising posters by their nationality. Just relax and enjoy the rugby. Cant expect everyone to think the same way as you.