Team selection: First Lions match in Aus

Gatland states that the first 3 games will see every tourist getting a start on rotation. It means that speculation about test preferences based on selection is put aside for that period and gives Gatland the chance to see who is hungry and look at combinations, mix them up to give him maximum flexibility come test week.

Based on what i saw this weekend some players have squandered opportunities and others have pencilled their names in. POC was immense as was Philipps and Roberts; their Lions pedigree shone. The likes of Farrell have done themselves no favours and his liability at 10 is obvious....for me Hibbard and Lydiate needed a huge game. Maitland will be annoyed with himself but remains my bolter.

For the next game it is imperative Sam starts and if he doesn't then i think questions about his worth to the squad need to be asked. This is the team i want to see on Wednesday

Healy
Youngs
Cole
Evans
AWJ
Croft
Sam
Heaslip
Youngs
Sexton
North
Manu
BOD
Bowe
Half

Will Warburton be fit in time for the first game in Aus? if not fit then maybe Tips will get a second chance.

I also think if Warburton is not fit then POC will start as captain and AWJ on the bench.

Would like to see sob in there somewhere as well assuming he's fit to play, don't think Sam will be good to go for Wednesday so might see him on the open side.

I guess we will see a fair bit of chance

The first opposition are the Force - they are the worst Aus team at the moment, whereas 3 days later they will play the far stronger Reds

So we could see a stronger team named to play the Reds, or Gatland will just rotate however he likes to see everyone play.

My team for the Force

15. Halfpenny (just to give him gametime, this will mean Kearney starts against the Reds)

14. Tommy Bowe

13. Manu Tuilagi

12. Brain O'Driscoll

11. George North

10. Jonathan Sexton (I would give Farrell another game straight away, but the quick turnaround rules that out)

9. Ben Youngs

8. Jamie Heaslip

7. Sam Warburton

6. Tom Croft

5. Ian Evans

4. Alun Wyn Jones

3. Dan Cole

2. Rory Best

1. Cian Healy


16. Tom Youngs

17. Gethin Jenkins

18. Matt Stevens

19. Geoff Parling

20. Sean O'Brien

21. Connor Murray

22. Owen Farrell

23. Rob Kearney

I like that set of backs.

I think the next two games will tell us more than the last one, conditions were awful which made handling difficult.

When is the next game by the way?

nathan wrote:I think the next two games will tell us more than the last one, conditions were awful which made handling difficult.

When is the next game by the way?

Wednesday against Western Force

Then Saturday against the Reds

wales606 wrote:I guess we will see a fair bit of chance

The first opposition are the Force - they are the worst Aus team at the moment, whereas 3 days later they will play the far stronger Reds

So we could see a stronger team named to play the Reds, or Gatland will just rotate however he likes to see everyone play.

My team for the Force

15. Halfpenny (just to give him gametime, this will mean Kearney starts against the Reds)

14. Tommy Bowe

13. Manu Tuilagi

12. Brain O'Driscoll

11. George North

10. Jonathan Sexton (I would give Farrell another game straight away, but the quick turnaround rules that out)

9. Ben Youngs

8. Jamie Heaslip

7. Sam Warburton

6. Tom Croft

5. Ian Evans

4. Alun Wyn Jones

3. Dan Cole

2. Rory Best

1. Cian Healy


16. Tom Youngs

17. Gethin Jenkins

18. Matt Stevens

19. Geoff Parling

20. Sean O'Brien

21. Connor Murray

22. Owen Farrell

23. Rob Kearney

I reckon Warbs will get another game off after another longish flight where his knee may swell a bit more.

I think we will see

Jenkins (though maybe Healy)
Best
Cole
Evans
Parling
Croft
SOB
Heaslip
Youngs
Sexton
North
Tuilagi
BOD (c)
Bowe
Halfpenny

I saw a photo last night though, with Healy, Best and Cole scrummaging, so that is the likely first team. I think if Melon is fit though, I would start him to see how his calf is and also to allow him to find his fitness too, like Gray and Lydiate

Risca Rev wrote:I think if Melon is fit though, I would start him to see how his calf is

I think the opposite, no point in risking a bigger injury when he can play 3 days later.

I would play him off the bench, but not risk giving him a fully match

Don't think we'll see Warburton yet, they'll play it safe with him so I imagine it'll be O'Brien at 7 if fit.

Interesting to see who gets a chance at hooker, scrum-half or full-back.

Excited about the prospect of Youngs, Sexton, North, Tuilagi and O'Driscoll.

Do you guys really think Gatland would have learnt much from the Barbarian game?

The way I see it they were never under pressure, and he would want to see how the players perform under some pressure, those that perform well under pressure would be the players that will stand up in the test series.

I would think the next few matches will tell him a lot more than the Barbarian game

Just a thought.

Biltong wrote:Do you guys really think Gatland would have learnt much from the Barbarian game?

The way I see it they were never under pressure, and he would want to see how the players perform under some pressure, those that perform well under pressure would be the players that will stand up in the test series.

I would think the next few matches will tell him a lot more than the Barbarian game

Just a thought.

The Reds will be the first proper challenge

How long should Gatland give these injured players?

I'd give them until the 7th june and then replace them if there not up to it.

wales606 wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:I think if Melon is fit though, I would start him to see how his calf is

I think the opposite, no point in risking a bigger injury when he can play 3 days later.

I would play him off the bench, but not risk giving him a fully match

I can see the logic in that as I said. If he is fully fit though, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gatland let him put some "money in the bank".

I do think judging by the photo it's Healy, Best and Cole, but I think either Jenkins has to be considered fully fit and thus needs the minutes after not getting much from Toulon again, or he shouldn't even make the squad.

VictorU3 wrote:How long should Gatland give these injured players?

I'd give them until the 7th june and then replace them if there not up to it.

What injured players are you referring to Hersh, because technically we only have one now?

What are you on about?

I'll ask again, How long should Gatland give these injured players?

Its a fair question as the tour soon flys by, you can't have players hanging around if they can't take part, its not good for the rest of the squad.

VictorU3 wrote:What are you on about?

I'll ask again, How long should Gatland give these injured players?

Its a fair question as the tour soon flys by, you can't have players hanging around if they can't take part, its not good for the rest of the squad.

Since the only injured player is the tour captain, I imagine Gatland will be willing to give him a couple of weeks if need be - but by all accounts he will be fit for this weekend at the latest, so it doesn't matter.

VictorU3 wrote:you can't have players hanging around if they can't take part, its not good for the rest of the squad.

It's not good for the squad if the coach has a hair-trigger and sends people home at the first sign of a knock.

Rugby Fan wrote:

VictorU3 wrote:you can't have players hanging around if they can't take part, its not good for the rest of the squad.

It's not good for the squad if the coach has a hair-trigger and sends people home at the first sign of a knock.

First sign of a knock.

The likes of Gethin Jenkins, and Sam Warburton, is that they have had these knocks for a couple of years.

VictorU3 wrote:What are you on about?

I'll ask again, How long should Gatland give these injured players?

Its a fair question as the tour soon flys by, you can't have players hanging around if they can't take part, its not good for the rest of the squad.

I said and Wales606 has, everybody bar Sam took a full part in training today, so surely you have to ask yourself what you are on about. This information on players has been readily available to read for yourself from this morning at worst. Just do a bit of research on it, if you're that concerned.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

VictorU3 wrote:you can't have players hanging around if they can't take part, its not good for the rest of the squad.

It's not good for the squad if the coach has a hair-trigger and sends people home at the first sign of a knock.

First sign of a knock.

The likes of Gethin Jenkins, and Sam Warburton, is that they have had these knocks for a couple of years.

And if they resume where they left off V England come test 1 we'll all be more than happy, despite these years of problems.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

VictorU3 wrote:you can't have players hanging around if they can't take part, its not good for the rest of the squad.

It's not good for the squad if the coach has a hair-trigger and sends people home at the first sign of a knock.

First sign of a knock.

The likes of Gethin Jenkins, and Sam Warburton, is that they have had these knocks for a couple of years.

No they haven't. Where's Warburton's knee problem that he has now been? Stop making things up. Jenkins has a calf problem that is managed well by his medical staff with Wales. I'd trust a professional's opinion over somebody like you definitely.

Stop getting your knickers in a twist. They're all pretty much fully fit now by the looks, so your shotgun attitude of send them home makes you look more foolish the more you go on about it. As I said, Dr Robson seems to be providing updates on injuries, so I'd advise you just to look out for them and trust a professional to do his job and not offer daft opinions before you know all the facts.

How long should he give the injured players? - As long as he wants - simples

1) Jenkins (still injured? If he is Healy)
2) Best
3) Cole
4) Evans
5) Parling
6) Croft
7) O'Brien (Give Warburton longer even if he could be fit in time, Queensland or CC game)
8) Heaslip

9) Youngs
10) Sexton
11) North
12) Tuilagi
13) O'Driscoll ©
14) Bowe
15) Halfpenny

Not sure playing guys who started on Saturday is a good idea.
Most of the time there is a 6 day turnaround coaches cite it as not ideal. Having 4 days and one of them a flight as rest and then playing one of those starters is a bad call in my books.

My team would be:

Jenkins/Healy
Best
Cole
Parling
Evans
Croft
Warbs/SOB
Heaslip
Youngs
Sexton
North
BOD (c)
Tuilagi
Bowe
Halfpenny

Hibbard-Healy/Vuinipola-Stevens-AWJ-SOB/Faletau-Murray-Farrell-Kearney

I definitely agree on not playing recently injured players too early. There is a few weeks until the first test so there is no rush whatsoever.

Could well see Tipuric start again if they choose to rest the lads on the recently injured list. Else I guess croft could play openside.

I can't recall Croft ever playing open side, why start on a Lions tour?

Team announced:

1/2p, Bowe, Bod, Manu, North, Sexton, Murray
Heaslip, SOB, Croft, AWJ, Evans, Cole, Best, Healy.

Reps: Youngs, vunipola, Stevens, Parling, Faletau, Youngs, Farrell, Maitland

Leaves Kearney, Youngsx2, Warburton, Parling, Jenkins, Stevens to make their first starts at the weekend.

Halfpenny,
Bowe,
O'Driscoll(c),
Tuilagi,
North,
Sexton,
Murray,
Healy,
Best,
Cole,
AW Jones,
Evans,
Croft,
O'Brien,
Heaslip

Reps

T Youngs, Vunipola, Stevens, Parling, Faletau, B Youngs, Farrell, Maitland

Thought we already had a thread for this? Or did I post the team on the wrong thread?

yea i just saw your post on the other thread im sure they will be merged by the mods

Very worrying that the captain hasn't played 2 games in. Concerns for Kearney and perhaps Jenkins too - I suspect if they can't play on Saturday they'll be out the tour. Doesn't look good for Kearney!

Is Kearney an injury worry?

I read that Jenkins (and SOB) had trained on Saturday, whilst Warbs knee was "responding to treatment". Pretty sure that as soon as he took the knock, Warburton was being pencilled in for the 3rd game. While not ideal as you would like your skipper to be prominent from the start, not the end of the world either.

Jenkins is the bigger worry for me. Apparently it is a problem he has had for a while (is it the same thing that caused him to miss a 6Ns match?) that is being "well managed" by the medical team. If it is a recuuring thing - then an intensive tour like this one makes it hard to manage any injury. Of course if I have misunderstood what has been written (by Risca Rev I think) and it is a one off, short term thing - then ignore what I have said.

Kearney has a grade 1 hamstring tear

Ah, was not aware of that. From experience I know how long it can take to fully recover from something like that - and that nagging fear in you mind as to whether it will go when you accelerate suddenly.

I’m surprised he’s not saved some of those forwards for the Reds game on Saturday– that is a pretty strong pack for the Force and the Reds are going to be one of the toughest teams outside the test. When you consider that the front 5 on Saturday is likely to be:

Jenkins (questions over his fitness)
Youngs (inexperienced, dynamic but lightweight)
Stevens (doesn’t look overly fit or on form)
Gray/POC
Parling (inexperienced, and more of beanpole lightweight style 2nd row)

It’s a little bit worrying.

I've just been reading that the priority for the force is the tahs game so i think we'll be seeing an even weaker team line up against the lions.

Beefy - maybe amend the OP a little for this to become the match day thread?

Am assuming Tom Youngs and Vunipola will get on for at least half an hour.

Great looking right five. Am surprised not to see Lydiate and Gray on the subs bench. They do need more game time and the Reds will be a much stiffer proposition than a Force without McCalman and the Honey Badger.

nathan wrote:I've just been reading that the priority for the force is the tahs game so i think we'll be seeing an even weaker team line up against the lions.

The Super teams have stated all along that they will be concentrating on the Super Rugby and not picking strong teams for these games, sad.

LondonTiger wrote:

nathan wrote:I've just been reading that the priority for the force is the tahs game so i think we'll be seeing an even weaker team line up against the lions.

The Super teams have stated all along that they will be concentrating on the Super Rugby and not picking strong teams for these games, sad.

ah right, didnt know that. It is a shame as it's a once in a lifetime chance for some of the players to face the lions.

I heard that Deans had demanded all the Aussie international players be rested for the Test games, sad if true

Just to explain this - the Force got a bye in the last S15 round so they are down to play the Waratahs at home on Sunday 9 July. All of the Wallabies squad have been hothoused and are not available for selection by their franchises - it means that the Force loses Cummins and McCalman.

Not sure how the Force can justify not putting on a good show. They are bottom of the Aussie conference and out of reckoning for the playoffs. If I was a Force player, I would really want to play and put myself in the shop window as one of the 20 Aussies that the French teams will doubtless buy during a bored period in the summer.

Risca Rev wrote:

VictorU3 wrote:What are you on about?

I'll ask again, How long should Gatland give these injured players?

Its a fair question as the tour soon flys by, you can't have players hanging around if they can't take part, its not good for the rest of the squad.

I said and Wales606 has, everybody bar Sam took a full part in training today, so surely you have to ask yourself what you are on about. This information on players has been readily available to read for yourself from this morning at worst. Just do a bit of research on it, if you're that concerned.

So I was right then!

Please do your reserch before going off on one.

Lions website is reporting that Warbuton has recovered and was fit to play midweek but they didn't want to risk him.

Well they said his knee problem flared up because of the long haul flight to Honk Kong, so I can't imagine a long hall flight to Aus will have done him much good either!

Long haul flight!

These guys had beds to travel in, hardly cattle class.

i'm looking forward to seeing how Manu and BOD play, will certainly interesting.

I do have a feeling though that Manu is shattered already and will need a good rest after this tour.

VictorU3 wrote:Long haul flight!

These guys had beds to travel in, hardly cattle class.

those beds are still in the plane that is high up in the sky!!

George Carlin wrote:Lions website is reporting that Warbuton has recovered and was fit to play midweek but they didn't want to risk him.

Makes sense

So everyone is fit, they just want to give the recently injured guys a few days of training before they play a match.

Is it not more the cabin pressure etc? Flying fairly messes up your body!

I know what you mean though - I've flown to NZ with BA, you get the same leg room as a flight to London!