Team selection: First Lions match in Aus

First topic message reminder :

Gatland states that the first 3 games will see every tourist getting a start on rotation. It means that speculation about test preferences based on selection is put aside for that period and gives Gatland the chance to see who is hungry and look at combinations, mix them up to give him maximum flexibility come test week.

Based on what i saw this weekend some players have squandered opportunities and others have pencilled their names in. POC was immense as was Philipps and Roberts; their Lions pedigree shone. The likes of Farrell have done themselves no favours and his liability at 10 is obvious....for me Hibbard and Lydiate needed a huge game. Maitland will be annoyed with himself but remains my bolter.

For the next game it is imperative Sam starts and if he doesn't then i think questions about his worth to the squad need to be asked. This is the team i want to see on Wednesday

Healy
Youngs
Cole
Evans
AWJ
Croft
Sam
Heaslip
Youngs
Sexton
North
Manu
BOD
Bowe
Half

Just smash the feck out of them - put 100 points on them with no mercy - That'll get them to think again. Play what's in front of you as if your life depended on it.

RubyGuby wrote:Just smash the feck out of them - put 100 points on them with no mercy - That'll get them to think again. Play what's in front of you as if your life depended on it.

Agree here, with the pre game talk of taking the lions apart limb by limb, and doing things that could get at the lions, then naming a weakened side the only way to respond is by total humiliation until the 80th minute. Be calm, be clinical and rack up the type of point margin that annoys the fans to criticise the club!

If the Lions are undercooked mind and AUS win the series off the back of it you'll probably hear force and AUS fans say.. fair game, the force did what they were told and they played a part in the series victory.

Pieter De Villiers spoke about the same thing in his autobiography from the last tour.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Sure there was 9 starting Welshmen v the BaBas.

That was largely because of player availability and aren't you talking about the team for the first test?

Yes. What would your team be?

Obviously

Vunipola
Youngs
Cole
Parling
Evans
Croft
Warburton
Heaslip/Faletau
Youngs
Farrell
North
Davies
Tuilagi
Cuthbert
Maitland

[quote] so u both would leave Adam out

[quote="jimmyinthewell68"]

ChequeredJersey wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Sure there was 9 starting Welshmen v the BaBas.

That was largely because of player availability and aren't you talking about the team for the first test?

Yes. What would your team be?

Obviously

Vunipola
Youngs
Cole
Parling
Evans
Croft
Warburton
Heaslip/Faletau
Youngs
Farrell
North
Davies
Tuilagi
Cuthbert
Maitland

so u both would leave Adam out

My post was a joke, hence it containing 8 (or arguably 12 ) Englishmen and multiple people born outside the UK

"Englishmen and multiple people born outside the UK."

That would be the England XV then

RubyGuby wrote:
"Englishmen and multiple people born outside the UK."

That would be the England XV then

Or, as it happens, the Welsh XV

RubyGuby wrote:
"Englishmen and multiple people born outside the UK."

That would be the England XV then

Glass houses & stones Ruby

For all of us

UKIP XV

Glass houses & stones Ruby

For all of us

Linebreaker wrote:UKIP XV

I don't think UKIP would be very happy with the Lions selection Gatland chooses, I imagine they'd say ... "I'm not racist but near every single one of the them is a jonny foreigner".

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:
"Englishmen and multiple people born outside the UK."

That would be the England XV then

Glass houses & stones Ruby

For all of us

Not Scotland though..... Oh!

RDW_Scotland wrote:How did a thread discussing the Lions game against Western Force descend into Anglo Welsh bickering?

I despair.

Evolution RDW Evolution - Don't confuse it with Devolution though

Its like watching two rats fight over who gets first tabs on the crumbs to fall from the kings table huh RDW!

The 'Welsh' backs have really added to the English call-ups.

Gatts is blatantly biased towards English players. I'm surprised there hasn't been more outrage

Cyzil strikes again...

Why any of you reply to his attempts to derail I don't know!

Anyhoo, back to the Force total disrespect of the Lions, rugby and competitive sports...

Disrespect deserves Disrespect - Let's Disrespect them!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Cyzil strikes again...

Why any of you reply to his attempts to derail I don't know!

Anyhoo, back to the Force total disrespect of the Lions, rugby and competitive sports...

I was actually responding to Ruby's post regarding England's 'foreign legion'

Cheer up you old curmudgeon

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Cyzil strikes again...

Why any of you reply to his attempts to derail I don't know!

Anyhoo, back to the Force total disrespect of the Lions, rugby and competitive sports...

I was actually responding to Ruby's post regarding England's 'foreign legion'

Cheer up you old curmudgeon

I agree Blues, his comments are really dumb. It was a clear yet poor attempt to derail after other posters played down RG's post in a light-hearted manner.

Never mind the b*ll*cks....It the Lions tour !



Play what is infront of you, ignore the mindgames

The Saint wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Cyzil strikes again...

Why any of you reply to his attempts to derail I don't know!

Anyhoo, back to the Force total disrespect of the Lions, rugby and competitive sports...

I was actually responding to Ruby's post regarding England's 'foreign legion'

Cheer up you old curmudgeon

I agree Blues, his comments are really dumb. It was a clear yet poor attempt to derail after other posters played down RG's post in a light-hearted manner.

Welcome back Morg

i could pick a whole Welsh first test team but i ll let gats do that only joking four nations one lions

When they win, they're the B&I Lions. When they lose, I suspect they'll be the 'Welsh Lions.' You can't have it both ways so how about some gratitude for the Welsh Lions after winning their opening game ...

I couldn't careless if Western Force or anyone else puts out a weakened team, at the end of the day their still Aussies and Aussies hate losing so lets smash them and enjoy the wins.

VictorU3 wrote:I couldn't careless if Western Force or anyone else puts out a weakened team, at the end of the day their still Aussies and Aussies hate losing so lets smash them and enjoy the wins.

I wouldn't say "hate", Victor. I'd say we prefer not to lose.

VictorU3 wrote:I couldn't careless if Western Force or anyone else puts out a weakened team, at the end of the day their still Aussies and Aussies hate losing so lets smash them and enjoy the wins.

[quote] jimmyinthewell68 likes this .

Linebreaker wrote:

VictorU3 wrote:I couldn't careless if Western Force or anyone else puts out a weakened team, at the end of the day their still Aussies and Aussies hate losing so lets smash them and enjoy the wins.

I wouldn't say "hate", Victor. I'd say we prefer not to lose.

In the same way that I'd *prefer* not to stand on an upturned plug wearing just my socks.

Ouch! Did you get that very sharp localised pain? I hate that!

Linebreaker wrote:Ouch! Did you get that very sharp localised pain? I hate that!

George Carlin wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

VictorU3 wrote:I couldn't careless if Western Force or anyone else puts out a weakened team, at the end of the day their still Aussies and Aussies hate losing so lets smash them and enjoy the wins.

I wouldn't say "hate", Victor. I'd say we prefer not to lose.

In the same way that I'd *prefer* not to stand on an upturned plug wearing just my socks.

Plugs though are fairly obvious and should be avoidable.

Try random pieces of lego, sneaking up on unclad feet - especially when going down stairs.

It's just the same old, same old Aussie trick - don't give a sucker an even chance.

It's Ashes year and they won't give a hint of their potential - especially if they're in for a trouncing.

http://www.espn.co.uk/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/184319.html makes my heart bleed as the 'Force' (sic) cry all the way to the bank.

greytiger wrote:It's Ashes year and they won't give a hint of their potential - especially if they're in for a trouncing.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-champions-trophy-2013/engine/match/634966.html

greytiger wrote:It's just the same old, same old Aussie trick - don't give a sucker an even chance.

It's Ashes year and they won't give a hint of their potential - especially if they're in for a trouncing.

http://www.espn.co.uk/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/184319.html makes my heart bleed as the 'Force' (sic) cry all the way to the bank.

Quote of the day:

"We spent a lot of time looking at the selection and picking the number of senior players we have, and the number of internationals in key positions, probably reflects the seriousness we take the Lions game."

You're absolutely right about that, Michael Foley. I'm not sure on a biomolecular level it's actually possible for you to give less of a sh!t about this game.

Is this going to be a precedent for the S15 side games, weakened sides? I know their bread n butter is the league but kinda takes the edge off these warm up games.

Surely the Reds have to play Cooper to help Deans decide whether to play him or not?

ChequeredJersey wrote:Surely the Reds have to play Cooper to help Deans decide whether to play him or not?

Yes Cooper will play for the Reds. It will be interesting to see if Cooper can perform in weaker side. If he is as good as his fans say he is then this is he chance to show his worth and he should stand out.

If he doesnt play well no doubt Deans will use his performance to justify not selecting him which it seems is what Deans wants to achieve from all of this.

Cooper is bad news, the Reds had to hire a life coach for him just to get his head straight. The guy is a liability and Deans knows it.

My wishlist for this game:

1: No injuries
2: Some of the players who encourage a "wider" game (Croft, Sexton, BOD) have good games and stamp their mark on it.
3: We see improved skills (humidity in HK was massive lets prove we can pass)
4: This lock pairing raise the bar again from last Saturday
5: Gatland's round the corner blue print continues to settle with the players
6: 1/2p shows us why he should be in the test team when he is not kicker

I'd like to see a more flexible centre pairing rather than a straight inside-outside combination, both players have the ability to play both positions and I'd like to see them mix and match to keep the opposition guessing, at a push O'Driscoll could go first receiver and allow Sexton to go out wider occasionally as well.

Serious question do you think Gatland would pick a Test side without an Englishman on it.

Yes you pick the side that is best for the team but would picking the below team (no English or Scottish players in the starting team but still a possible enough selection) lead to much controversy.

01 Cian Healy
02 Richard Hibbard
03 Adam Jones
04 Alun Wyn Jones
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Sam Warburton (c)
07 Justin Tipuric
08 Jamie Heaslip
09 Mike Phillips
10 Johnny Sexton
11 George North
12 Jamie Roberts
13 Brian O'Driscoll
14 Tommy Bowe
15 Leigh Halfpenny

16 Rory Best
17 Mako Vunipola
18 Dan Cole
19 Richie Gray
20 Sean O'Brien
21 Ben Youngs
22 Owen Farrell
23 Stuart Hogg

If there would be controversy is that a good enough reason to opt to include Cole or Youngs or Gray or Maitland or Tuilagi in the starting XV.

How big an issue is national representation and is there much backlash by leaving out some nations?

Would it be better for a coach to ensure that all 4 nations have some representation and they can sidestep the questions and distractions that would follow in the prematch build up.

(BTW Im not saying thats the best team - this is more a debate about whether all nations need representing (especially the big nations) - you could make a perfect team with no Irish and minimal Welsh players too).

123456789 wrote:I'd like to see a more flexible centre pairing rather than a straight inside-outside combination, both players have the ability to play both positions and I'd like to see them mix and match to keep the opposition guessing, at a push O'Driscoll could go first receiver and allow Sexton to go out wider occasionally as well.

Not a bad idea and thats probably what they will do.

Sounds like BOD-JD2 to me

GunsGerms wrote:Sure there was 9 starting Welshmen v the BaBas.

Are you seriously suggesting Hogg and Lydiate were amongst the worst players against the Baa Baas........... or are you just kidding?

flyhalffactory wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Sure there was 9 starting Welshmen v the BaBas.

Are you seriously suggesting Hogg and Lydiate were amongst the worst players against the Baa Baas........... or are you just kidding?

100% serious. Both made a lot of mistakes. Hogg played like a headless chicken and Lydiate knocked the ball on and turned over call a number of times and was ineffective compared to most of the other forwards.

Both will need to improve a lot to get into the test team.

GunsGerms wrote:Hogg played like a headless chicken and Lydiate knocked the ball on and turned over call a number of times and was ineffective compared to most of the other forwards.

Both will need to improve a lot to get into the test team.

That's harsh on Hogg. He ran some great lines and had the ball not been a greasy lump of sweat he could have been in for two scores. I think you're probably thinking of his first catch and counter, in which he got smashed by Lualua. Fair enough, he did just run into him, but once he got up and dusted himself off, he was pretty decent for the rest of the match, including a lovely piece of composed play to get out of his 22.

The Baa Baas didn't kick much ball to the back, meaning that Hogg's big strength, his counter-attacking, didn't really come into play. He still made some good attacking incursions though.

Not a vintage performance, but I disagree with the view that he played poorly.

As for Lydiate, he did his job, no more no less. Tackled his heart out. His big threat will come from Tom Croft, who is capable of both the grunt work and more eye-catching charges around the park.

+1 FES. Talk about players being "bad" in an uncompetitive first game played in a Turkish bath is completely pointless. I don't think you can say that anyone played "badly". Even Maitland, who was incredibly quiet as he had bugger all to do defensively and all the attacks came down the right or were forwards dominated.

The real tour (and being able to judge players' performances) starts now.

Oh, and the Reds will definitely play Cooper for the simple reason that McKenzie wants Deans' job and fully intends to polarise opinion by seeing Cooper play well against the Lions, followed by Deans either not selecting him at all or adding him to his training squad two weeks later than he should have been. McKenzie thinks that if he leaves Cooper out and the Lions take the series, then that is plenty of rope for Dingo to hang himself with. Every pundit I've read agrees.

Cooper vs Farrell - now there's a clash of styles if ever there was one!

Anyway, does McKenzie really want Deans' job? I heard that it was the Edinburgh job he really wanted.....

GunsGerms wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Sure there was 9 starting Welshmen v the BaBas.

Are you seriously suggesting Hogg and Lydiate were amongst the worst players against the Baa Baas........... or are you just kidding?

100% serious. Both made a lot of mistakes. Hogg played like a headless chicken and Lydiate knocked the ball on and turned over call a number of times and was ineffective compared to most of the other forwards.

Both will need to improve a lot to get into the test team.

I think Hogg was okay. I don't ever remember Lydiate doing any of that though. He tackled well, carried well and took his try well. You lot really dislike Danny Lydiate for some reason.

Why can't we be more supportive. The Scots are hating on Mike Phillips, the Irish are hating on Dan Lydiate and everybody is hating on Owen Farrell. Get behind the Lions!

Lydiate will always get my backing but I think he is one of those players that will also always have his knockers no matter what he does.

He wasn't upto his best but he lasted the pace well and will only get better and for me I would start him at 6 everytime.

Farrell and Phillips both had mixed bags good and bad, farrell place kicking was pretty much spot on but from hand was poor yet he stood his ground and proved that the Lions are not going to be bullied (99 anyone).

Its not just other fans that give Phillips grief, trust me us Welsh give him some to. His passing in general was ok but there were his customary loose ones, yet he proved what a handle full he is and how much problem he can cause.

Lets see all players in action first in more testing games before we make to many decisions.

I hope Farrell gets a chance vs the Force...! He needs a good game to prove he can cut it at this level. He was a complete liability in the Saturday match.

Thats harsh for you Maes, I didn't think he was as bad as some are making out.