Team selection: First Lions match in Aus

First topic message reminder :

Gatland states that the first 3 games will see every tourist getting a start on rotation. It means that speculation about test preferences based on selection is put aside for that period and gives Gatland the chance to see who is hungry and look at combinations, mix them up to give him maximum flexibility come test week.

Based on what i saw this weekend some players have squandered opportunities and others have pencilled their names in. POC was immense as was Philipps and Roberts; their Lions pedigree shone. The likes of Farrell have done themselves no favours and his liability at 10 is obvious....for me Hibbard and Lydiate needed a huge game. Maitland will be annoyed with himself but remains my bolter.

For the next game it is imperative Sam starts and if he doesn't then i think questions about his worth to the squad need to be asked. This is the team i want to see on Wednesday

Healy
Youngs
Cole
Evans
AWJ
Croft
Sam
Heaslip
Youngs
Sexton
North
Manu
BOD
Bowe
Half

nathan wrote:

VictorU3 wrote:Long haul flight!

These guys had beds to travel in, hardly cattle class.

those beds are still in the plane that is high up in the sky!!

Compression hosiery and leg exercises!

It will be interesting to see who kicks in this game, my money is on Halfpenny

Who does anyone think will replace Kearney if he's sent home?

Foden

nathan wrote:Who does anyone think will replace Kearney if he's sent home?

If it is anyone other than Sir Johnny I think the English media will go into meltdown. To be fair I think he should be the replacement!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

nathan wrote:Who does anyone think will replace Kearney if he's sent home?

If it is anyone other than Sir Johnny I think the English media will go into meltdown. To be fair I think he should be the replacement!

dont they need cover for full back though?

Kearney replacement - A FH probably (e.g JW).

If it was like for like then Foden is finally showing some form.

Kicking on wednesday - if 1/2p is kicking it will probably indicate that hes a certainty for the tests.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

nathan wrote:Who does anyone think will replace Kearney if he's sent home?

If it is anyone other than Sir Johnny I think the English media will go into meltdown. To be fair I think he should be the replacement!

+1 - If Hogg's not covering 10 you only need 2 fullbacks, as you generally don't carry one on the bench. Bowe and Maitland can both play fullback if an injury replacement in a match is required.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

nathan wrote:Who does anyone think will replace Kearney if he's sent home?

If it is anyone other than Sir Johnny I think the English media will go into meltdown. To be fair I think he should be the replacement!

+1 - If Hogg's not covering 10 you only need 2 fullbacks, as you generally don't carry one on the bench. Bowe and Maitland can both play fullback if an injury replacement in a match is required.

Why would Kearney be sent home? Is he injured?

If anything, it's a utility back that the Lions need - someone who is a footballer with a step and a bit of gas. Marshall, 36 or Scott are the obvious candidates. Does anyone know for how long Luke is out of action under the concussion protocol? Would love to see him over there.

VictorU3 wrote:Long haul flight!

These guys had beds to travel in, hardly cattle class.

Love the mental picture of some poor, skinny Aussie punter stuck between Healy and Vunipola in cattle class.

George Carlin wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

nathan wrote:Who does anyone think will replace Kearney if he's sent home?

If it is anyone other than Sir Johnny I think the English media will go into meltdown. To be fair I think he should be the replacement!

+1 - If Hogg's not covering 10 you only need 2 fullbacks, as you generally don't carry one on the bench. Bowe and Maitland can both play fullback if an injury replacement in a match is required.

Why would Kearney be sent home? Is he injured?

If anything, it's a utility back that the Lions need - someone who is a footballer with a step and a bit of gas. Marshall, 36 or Scott are the obvious candidates. Does anyone know for how long Luke is out of action under the concussion protocol? Would love to see him over there.

grade 1 hamstring tear. there giving him time to see if he recovers.

Possibly Hook if they get concern over any other backs injuries on Wednesday,

otherwise it will probably be a flyhalf - Jonny or Biggar

Hook

George Carlin wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

nathan wrote:Who does anyone think will replace Kearney if he's sent home?

If it is anyone other than Sir Johnny I think the English media will go into meltdown. To be fair I think he should be the replacement!

+1 - If Hogg's not covering 10 you only need 2 fullbacks, as you generally don't carry one on the bench. Bowe and Maitland can both play fullback if an injury replacement in a match is required.

Why would Kearney be sent home? Is he injured?

If anything, it's a utility back that the Lions need - someone who is a footballer with a step and a bit of gas. Marshall, 36 or Scott are the obvious candidates. Does anyone know for how long Luke is out of action under the concussion protocol? Would love to see him over there.

For all his pace, Zebo's basic skills are very underrated and has performed better at 15 for Ireland than Kearney. He's the only player I have seen truly beat Kearney in a 50-50 high ball and he has a good left peg.

There is also Ian Madigan who can cover 10, 12 (which Lions could do with) and 15 and although I am his biggest fan I would not be overly confident with him as a Lions FB.

If Gats really needs another 15 I'd go for Zebo, but considering Farrell's form it would probably be better to call up Biggar, Wilko or Madigan.

VictorU3 wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

VictorU3 wrote:What are you on about?

I'll ask again, How long should Gatland give these injured players?

Its a fair question as the tour soon flys by, you can't have players hanging around if they can't take part, its not good for the rest of the squad.

I said and Wales606 has, everybody bar Sam took a full part in training today, so surely you have to ask yourself what you are on about. This information on players has been readily available to read for yourself from this morning at worst. Just do a bit of research on it, if you're that concerned.

So I was right then!

Please do your reserch before going off on one.

Haha. Nice try Hersh. You know fine well you were including Jenkins etc also. Evidently I did do research, as I went off an interview off James Robson, where he stated Warburton was the only concern and Kearney should've been released back to training today.

Really like the look of this squad for Wednesday! Excited to see what O'Brien will do on the harder grounds, and how the centre partnership goes. Though I'm really still not convinced by Manu at 12.

Two lovely contrasting wings too, which hopefully Sexton and Halfpenny can exploit and utilise to their full advantage.

Have to say from an Irish perspective I do not like that back row, although admittedly there was not much choice.

It is even more unbalanced than Kidney's mess, SOB is not the fetcher to allow Croft to roam about and likewise SOB and Heaslip will be unable to carry at their best, being overloaded with work in the tight. The Ferris-SOB-Heaslip trio in RWC 2011 looked so strong individually but were famously taken apart by the superior unit of Lydiate-Warburton-Faletau, which at the time looked inferior individually to me.

I'm not being funny but (as much as I dislike him personally) if we're replacing a full back with a full back then the standout form candidate really should be Lee Byrne.

George Carlin wrote:I'm not being funny but (as much as I dislike him personally) if we're replacing a full back with a full back then the standout form candidate really should be Lee Byrne.

Have no idea how he slipped my mind.

byrne good choice plus a lion

I'm guessing Bryne has been playing well over in France? I've not seen him play for a while.

Purely from a fantasy rugby point of view who do y'all expect do take the kicks on Wednesday?

theslosty wrote:Purely from a fantasy rugby point of view who do y'all expect do take the kicks on Wednesday?

I'm going for Dan Cole.

nathan wrote:I'm guessing Bryne has been playing well over in France? I've not seen him play for a while.

Apparently so. There was a fair few who wanted Byrne to start over Halfpenny in the Six Nations, due to his ability to hit the line etc.

I think Halfpenny will take the kicks theslosty, but it's hard to call.

Actually I think Gats will allow Sexton to make amends for Saturday but if he screws that up I can see the tee being handed over to Halfpenny for the rest of the tour... or indeed Dan Cole - if he gets his way.

nathan wrote:I'm guessing Bryne has been playing well over in France? I've not seen him play for a while.

Played almost every game for Clermont and has played well. He's just turned 33 so this would be his last hurrah as a Lion. If a player comes late into a squad then it matters more that he's experienced and a Lions tourist before plus almost 50 Welsh caps has to count in his favour.

If Kearney is ruled out I really don’t think we need a 3rd FB at this stage. We have 2 young and fresh FB who can easily cover all the games, and Maitland and Bowe can cover there.

As has been said a utility player may be ideal, which would suggest Hook, but has he been playing well recently?

George Carlin wrote:

nathan wrote:I'm guessing Bryne has been playing well over in France? I've not seen him play for a while.

Played almost every game for Clermont and has played well. He's just turned 33 so this would be his last hurrah as a Lion. If a player comes late into a squad then it matters more that he's experienced and a Lions tourist before plus almost 50 Welsh caps has to count in his favour.

It would only be fair after Kearney gobbling up his test spot on the last tour.

We need another 10 and that's pretty obvious - Hook gets too much criticism for me and he's had a good season in France - One of Hook, Biggar or Madigan for me with Hook being my choice behind such a powerful pack and with a very powerful backline - He could be the perfect foil

munkian wrote:I heard that Deans had demanded all the Aussie international players be rested for the Test games, sad if true

Isn't Quade going to play at the weekend?

Quade hasn't been picked in the initial squad

If Kearney is out, Byrne has to be drafted in as cover, hes easily one of the form full backs in Europe, if you can make a Clermont jersey your own you have to be doing something right, given the quality they have.

Its not as if international inactivity is a problem for Stevens or Wilkinson so I dont see why Byrne would be excluded.

Notch wrote:

munkian wrote:I heard that Deans had demanded all the Aussie international players be rested for the Test games, sad if true

Isn't Quade going to play at the weekend?

Yes, he's playing on Saturday for the Reds.

munkian wrote:Quade hasn't been picked in the initial squad

True, he's not (yet) in the Wallabies squad but I think Notch was asking about the Reds match this weekend.

Linebreaker wrote:

Notch wrote:

munkian wrote:I heard that Deans had demanded all the Aussie international players be rested for the Test games, sad if true

Isn't Quade going to play at the weekend?

Yes, he's playing on Saturday for the Reds.

munkian wrote:Quade hasn't been picked in the initial squad

True, he's not (yet) in the Wallabies squad but I think Notch was asking about the Reds match this weekend.

When is RD naming the extra places in his squad?

Also has Deans demanded all int player be rested for club games? I think thats a huge mistake IMO

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

Notch wrote:

munkian wrote:I heard that Deans had demanded all the Aussie international players be rested for the Test games, sad if true

Isn't Quade going to play at the weekend?

Yes, he's playing on Saturday for the Reds.

munkian wrote:Quade hasn't been picked in the initial squad

True, he's not (yet) in the Wallabies squad but I think Notch was asking about the Reds match this weekend.

When is RD naming the extra places in his squad?

Also has Deans demanded all int player be rested for club games? I think thats a huge mistake IMO

I think he has rested the international players. It's fairly common practice, NZ did the same in 2005 and (iirc) South Africa did in 2009

Yes, all Wallaby squad players are not allowed to play for their clubs in the 3 week window leading up to the first test. This was rammed through ages ago and raises the perfectly valid concern that the Wallabies will be lacking match sharpness by the time the first test rolls around, whereas we'll have played 6 quite tough games on the bounce.

The Force have made it pretty clear what their intentions are:

'Take Lions apart limb by limb'

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/story/184292.html

Nice.

It's a good selection from Gatland for Wednesday, although I share the slight reservations over the balance in the back row. Warburton starting with SOB on the bench would have been a better balance, but for Warburton's injury.

If Kearney drops out I agree that Gatland would look to draft in a player able to cover 10. Might not be a specialist, he could opt for a utility player like Goode, Hook, or Madigan, although I agree with those above who suspect that Wilkinson is probably next on Gatland's list. Farrell's mixed performance in Hong Kong will not be lost on Gatland and Howley.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

Notch wrote:

munkian wrote:I heard that Deans had demanded all the Aussie international players be rested for the Test games, sad if true

Isn't Quade going to play at the weekend?

Yes, he's playing on Saturday for the Reds.

munkian wrote:Quade hasn't been picked in the initial squad

True, he's not (yet) in the Wallabies squad but I think Notch was asking about the Reds match this weekend.

When is RD naming the extra places in his squad?

Also has Deans demanded all int player be rested for club games? I think thats a huge mistake IMO

I think he has rested the international players. It's fairly common practice, NZ did the same in 2005 and (iirc) South Africa did in 2009

I know they did, but that gave the lions tour a nothing ride toward test 1, proved tiresome in most cases from a challenge POV.

Also in both the last tours the home team were top of their game, had won major trophies the years previous and were settled and injury free.

Aus are in no way the same place NZ and SA were in on the last 2 tours, from my POV I would be looking to give certain players as much time as possible, with others getting meaningfull game time off the bench, especially as they won't play any rugby now for 3 weeks.

I see the positives of resting players, avoiding injuries etc, but I just can't help but feel with so many question marks hanging over players the odd 10 minutes here or there would help them keep their edge and give RD more of an insight.

I could understand not playing any Force players this week, rest up and recover from Super rugby, Cooper has to play Saturday however, and I see the positives of having Faainga, Slipper, Davies and Gill on the bench with a view of getting them on the pitch around the hour / 70th minute mark.

RDW_Scotland wrote:The Force have made it pretty clear what their intentions are:

'Take Lions apart limb by limb'

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/story/184292.html

Nice.

Good luck to them taking Evans, SOB, Tuilagi and North apart limb by limb! This is a Gatland Lions side, being "physical" won't phase this Lions team one bit, provided it's done within the rules. If there's a sense that the Force are out to injure by foul play on the other hand, I sincerely hope that the ref is prepared to be vigilant and act accordingly.

To be fair to Deans resting players, he's already lost a crop of pretty key players. He can't afford to lose too many more, so I understand the decision to rest his Test players.

Keeping the Wallaby players out of the midweek games could result in the Lions winning comfortably and being undercooked for the tests.

Sneaky Aussies

RDW_Scotland wrote:The Force have made it pretty clear what their intentions are:

'Take Lions apart limb by limb'

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/story/184292.html

Nice.

Why am I so nervous seeing Sextons name on the team sheet???

One quote was 'There were a few little things that got under their skin [in Hong Kong] so maybe we'll do a little bit of the same.' Only thing that got under the skin that I could see was a haymaker on the 10 in the first few minutes... Chin up Jonny, take it like a man!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well they said his knee problem flared up because of the long haul flight to Honk Kong, so I can't imagine a long hall flight to Aus will have done him much good either!

My wife's never played rugby but, aged 70, she had never flown before visiting Australia for a wedding in April. She went economy class, so unlike the Lions, she had no bed for the 25 hours' flight each way, but unlike Warburton experienced no ensuing health problems either. I recall Seb Coe in his running days saying he had withdrawn from a race because he had a snuffle in the nose which would reduce his performance by about 1%!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Why am I so nervous seeing Sextons name on the team sheet???

One quote was 'There were a few little things that got under their skin [in Hong Kong] so maybe we'll do a little bit of the same.' Only thing that got under the skin that I could see was a haymaker on the 10 in the first few minutes... Chin up Jonny, take it like a man!

How dare you suggest such a thing. Australian rugby players have never resorted to underhand tactics to remove key players from a series.

Not once.

Never

Absolutely ne.... OK well maybe they have.

The surf looks pretty flat...

I wouldn't read to much into those remarks. A bit surprised to hear Robbie say that though.
Has he been speaking to Rusty Crowe or what?

To be fair, if history has shown anything it is that nothing brings the Lions closer together than teams trying to rough them up.

I know it is probably all talk, but there some tough barstewards in that Lions team and it really would be a mistake to try to annoy them!

Linebreaker wrote:The surf looks pretty flat...

I wouldn't read to much into those remarks. A bit surprised to hear Robbie say that though.
Has he been speaking to Rusty Crowe or what?

Bit of a weird one from Deans isn't it 'Take them apart limb by limb' If the force game turns ugly, and puts a slight taint on the start to the tour he will come in for a lot of criticism.

The Force won't be stupid - they will know that if they throw a punch they will probaby be at least binned and cited. However if they do something sneaky and a Lions player reacts, and gets binned and cited, then job done.

RDW_Scotland wrote:The Force won't be stupid - they will know that if they throw a punch they will probaby be at least binned and cited. However if they do something sneaky and a Lions player reacts, and gets binned and cited, then job done.

Probably a good thing Best has replaced Dylan Hartley.....