Team selection: First Lions match in Aus

First topic message reminder :

Gatland states that the first 3 games will see every tourist getting a start on rotation. It means that speculation about test preferences based on selection is put aside for that period and gives Gatland the chance to see who is hungry and look at combinations, mix them up to give him maximum flexibility come test week.

Based on what i saw this weekend some players have squandered opportunities and others have pencilled their names in. POC was immense as was Philipps and Roberts; their Lions pedigree shone. The likes of Farrell have done themselves no favours and his liability at 10 is obvious....for me Hibbard and Lydiate needed a huge game. Maitland will be annoyed with himself but remains my bolter.

For the next game it is imperative Sam starts and if he doesn't then i think questions about his worth to the squad need to be asked. This is the team i want to see on Wednesday

Healy
Youngs
Cole
Evans
AWJ
Croft
Sam
Heaslip
Youngs
Sexton
North
Manu
BOD
Bowe
Half

Good start - Heaslip and SOB growing into the game. Vunipola putting down a marker

Saw the first half an hour. A little bit 'meh' in terms of our performance but that's due to a combination of the Lions getting used to each other and the Force being a professional, solid team.

Pros - BOD taking his score well, Heaslip running lovely lines, Bowe looking sharp, Halfpenny's goalkicking, North starting to get into it, Manu looking busy.

Cons - Healy being injured is a massive blow although it didn't look like a crazy hyperextension on telly so hopefully just a mild sprain(without exception, every single aspect of Ryan Grant's game is better than James' incidentally), Murray looking a little flakey, not a huge amount from Evans and AWJ as yet, Best's throwing is still not bombproof, Manu being found in rucks - get out of there, son!

Kicking masterclass from Halfpenny. He missed 1 kick in the 3 tests Wales played in Aus last year

Grant looked fantastic in the Glasgow ospreys game. James would be a good replacement too.. Plenty to choose from.

Corbisiero looked good in England's game.. He's an awesome prop if he is properly fit..

That would be good, he would be a loss for the tour

Penalty count is a huge issue for the Lions

Conceeding a try is a big black mark for any international team against such weak opposition

Who needs Healy when you have Vunipola? excellent game so far

Touchline again from Halfpenny!

Lots of good options at prop. Vunipola really taking his chance today.

Halfpenny is a rifleman.

Claims of biting against Healy - any idea if there's anything in that or is it Aussie tactics to try to get him a ban??

Very mixed performance so far, coaches will have a got of complaints - but some players have put their hands up

RDW_Scotland wrote:Claims of biting against Healy - any idea if there's anything in that or is it Aussie tactics to try to get him a ban??

Might have been accidental apparently, nothing on the cameras

Good finish from Bowe

20 minutes to win the ashes and make it a cricket score

Wow, Halfpenny, incredible.

Another penalty, big discipline problem

and weak fringe defense

14 men score against 15 Lions - Shaun Edwards is having a fit sat on his sofa at home

That was lovely by Manu and Bod!

Beautiful between 12 and 13

Confidence boost for Farrell

Nice start by Farrell, would have been slated if it didnt work though

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, Farrell is back.

Couple of poor restarts too

I saw the dust up at the time, some pushing and shoving straight after and Sheehan coming up to Healy after play had stopped for the scrum to be awarded. The discussion looked a bit like 'you bit my forearm' and 'not my fault you shoved your arm into my face'.

On the footage you can see Healy getting tackled and being held up then Sheehan come in behind the tackling player to drive at the maul. As the maul goes to ground Sheehan's elbow rotates over with his foream pressing into Healy's face.

Could have been a bite, but with Sheehan saying it might have been an accident, that suggests to me there wasn't much teeth involved and it was just a maul incidental with body parts getting mashed together.

Whenever the force have got to the Lions line, they have gotten a try and plenty of penalty advantages, Lions have to hold out this time

What is required is not a turgid scrummie.

Head injury for the Lions, its Croft

and a Yellow for AWJ

Lions have lacked a proper 7 in this game

Well worked for that try

11 from 11 for Halfpenny

RDW_Scotland wrote:Claims of biting against Healy - any idea if there's anything in that or is it Aussie tactics to try to get him a ban??

TMO reviewed it and said no evidence of biting.

Who was MOTM?

My front-runners from the test at this (early) stage:

Mako, Hibbard, Jones, Gray, O'Connell, O'Brien, Tipuric, Heaslip, Phillips, Sexton, North, Roberts, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Halfpenny
T Youngs, Jenkins, Cole, Parling, Croft, Murray, Farrell, Tuilagi

Yet to start a match: Jenkins, T Youngs, Stevens, Parling, Warburton, B Youngs, Kearney

Obviously those not to start will start this weekend (if fit) and can further press their claims for the starting line-up and the 22.

Tight-five: I have reverted to the Hong Kong tight 5 on mass. I think today's starting tight 5 looked poor, but Vunipola, Youngs and Parling all added something when they came on so get added to the bench. Jenkins will be looking to perform as he can against the Reds and show what he can do. Best particularly disappointed for me, possibly vindicating Gatland's decision to leave him out of the initial squad.

Back row: O'Brien and Heaslip were sensational today, as Tipuric was in Hong Kong. That could be a great back row right there. I have Croft as my front runner for the bench, but you could take your pick between him, Lydiate and Faletau at the moment. Warburton will obviously come back into it as captain and it will be interesting to see how he goes coming into the side against the reds.

Half-backs: Murray was really good coming on and picking up where Phillips left off against the Barbarians, but I think he tried to do a little too much himself today and it didn't always work. He's still got credit in the bank, but it will be interesting to see how Youngs goes in his start. Sexton was phenomenal, while Farrell took his try nicely after coming on. Really good for him, as we need him in form to put pressure on Sexton. But Sexton ran the show.

Centres: Both excellent on Saturday, both excellent today. Tough to pick, so I've reverted to the tried and tested with Tuilagi offering more x-factor off the bench. Expect another reshuffle in the coming games, I'd like to see Tuilagi have another run at 12 with Davies outside him against the Reds, before seeing Roberts and O'Driscoll back together next Wednesday. But 4 strong options for the Lions in this area.

Back-three: I thought Halfpenny was at fault on one kick-and-chase in the first half, but in the second half he did all his basics right and his goal-kicking was phenomenal. After two easy ones to start he nailed them from both touchlines and 11 from 11 speaks for itself. North and Bowe both shone today as well, North ran strongly but Bowe showed some nice touches as well and some of the interplay between him and Sexton was really nice. Cuthbert comes into the equation with his tries on the weekend, and Hogg could also force his way into the 23.

Very interested to watch the Reds game now. Jenkins, Youngs (both), Parling and Warburton especially all have loads to prove on their first starts on tours, and could all force their way right into the picture.

Anyone know how long Kearney is out for? Healy picked up an injury in the first half too and was stretchered off.

Much better performance from the Lions today.

1/2p was class. Should be test starter at this stage.

Drico, Heaslip, Sexton, Bowe, AWJ, Vunap, Tuilagi all good too. Actually nearly everyone was good bar maybe Healy and maybe Best.

GunsGerms wrote:Much better performance from the Lions today.

1/2p was class. Should be test starter at this stage.

Drico, Heaslip, Sexton, Bowe, AWJ, Vunap, Tuilagi all good too. Actually nearly everyone was good bar maybe Healy and maybe Best.

I'm surprised you said AWJ actually, I thought the starting tight 5 lacked a lot of the dynamism we saw against the Barbarians in that area. I think Vunipola, Youngs and Parling all added something coming off the bench.

Other than that I agree with you and I'd add O'Brien and North to your list.

robbo277 wrote:My front-runners from the test at this (early) stage:

Mako, Hibbard, Jones, Gray, O'Connell, O'Brien, Tipuric, Heaslip, Phillips, Sexton, North, Roberts, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Halfpenny
T Youngs, Jenkins, Cole, Parling, Croft, Murray, Farrell, Tuilagi

Yet to start a match: Jenkins, T Youngs, Stevens, Parling, Warburton, B Youngs, Kearney

Obviously those not to start will start this weekend (if fit) and can further press their claims for the starting line-up and the 22.

Tight-five: I have reverted to the Hong Kong tight 5 on mass. I think today's starting tight 5 looked poor, but Vunipola, Youngs and Parling all added something when they came on so get added to the bench. Jenkins will be looking to perform as he can against the Reds and show what he can do. Best particularly disappointed for me, possibly vindicating Gatland's decision to leave him out of the initial squad.

Back row: O'Brien and Heaslip were sensational today, as Tipuric was in Hong Kong. That could be a great back row right there. I have Croft as my front runner for the bench, but you could take your pick between him, Lydiate and Faletau at the moment. Warburton will obviously come back into it as captain and it will be interesting to see how he goes coming into the side against the reds.

Half-backs: Murray was really good coming on and picking up where Phillips left off against the Barbarians, but I think he tried to do a little too much himself today and it didn't always work. He's still got credit in the bank, but it will be interesting to see how Youngs goes in his start. Sexton was phenomenal, while Farrell took his try nicely after coming on. Really good for him, as we need him in form to put pressure on Sexton. But Sexton ran the show.

Centres: Both excellent on Saturday, both excellent today. Tough to pick, so I've reverted to the tried and tested with Tuilagi offering more x-factor off the bench. Expect another reshuffle in the coming games, I'd like to see Tuilagi have another run at 12 with Davies outside him against the Reds, before seeing Roberts and O'Driscoll back together next Wednesday. But 4 strong options for the Lions in this area.

Back-three: I thought Halfpenny was at fault on one kick-and-chase in the first half, but in the second half he did all his basics right and his goal-kicking was phenomenal. After two easy ones to start he nailed them from both touchlines and 11 from 11 speaks for itself. North and Bowe both shone today as well, North ran strongly but Bowe showed some nice touches as well and some of the interplay between him and Sexton was really nice. Cuthbert comes into the equation with his tries on the weekend, and Hogg could also force his way into the 23.

Very interested to watch the Reds game now. Jenkins, Youngs (both), Parling and Warburton especially all have loads to prove on their first starts on tours, and could all force their way right into the picture.

Anyone know how long Kearney is out for? Healy picked up an injury in the first half too and was stretchered off.

Good analysis so far

There is still a way to go, but some players have really started to put their hands up and are setting a standard.

The centres are going to be a tough decision, think I agree with Roberts and BOD at the moment - I hope they start together against the Red (although they might want to give BOD a week between games)

maestegmafia wrote:

Toohey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Toohey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Gibson wrote:Sexton will kick. Won't let anyone else near the ball while he's on the field. He's in the 90% range - just to dispel the online myths. Missed a few on Sat... but phookit. Weird weather conditions. And he opened the Baa Baas up like a hot knife through butter.

Think people should give young Farrell a break too. Its a high learning-curve for the lad. He will be getting lots of solid advice from those experienced heads around him. This will make him an even better player post Tour.

Its what the Lions are all about.

The lions is about trying to win a tour, not about teaching Farrell how to be a better player. He should be the best already.

I hope he starts to play well, a few people have said that his confidence has been rattled by poor performances in his last four or five big games.

Out of interest maestegmafia, if Farrell has a poor performance at some point that costs the lions a test will you blame the player for accepting a call up or Gatland for choosing him?

I am sure every player is trying their very best, whether their best is good enough is to be seen, so far I think we can all say Farrell wasn't at his best. The coaches and players will be hoping he can give a better showing.

Regarding selection, should he not improve or have a better game than showed last week, then yes it does fall on the coaches for calling him up to the squad. Certainly the ones who recommended he could do the job.

He has masses to prove after his recent form.

Pathetic. Get this in your head, the final selection (especially for such a pivotal position) was Gatlands and his alone. I think he is comfortable with that, why can't you handle it?

Wow you are a complete prat aren't you...

Concise, constructive, to the point. Touché.

wales606 wrote:

robbo277 wrote:My front-runners from the test at this (early) stage:

Mako, Hibbard, Jones, Gray, O'Connell, O'Brien, Tipuric, Heaslip, Phillips, Sexton, North, Roberts, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Halfpenny
T Youngs, Jenkins, Cole, Parling, Croft, Murray, Farrell, Tuilagi

Yet to start a match: Jenkins, T Youngs, Stevens, Parling, Warburton, B Youngs, Kearney

Obviously those not to start will start this weekend (if fit) and can further press their claims for the starting line-up and the 22.

Tight-five: I have reverted to the Hong Kong tight 5 on mass. I think today's starting tight 5 looked poor, but Vunipola, Youngs and Parling all added something when they came on so get added to the bench. Jenkins will be looking to perform as he can against the Reds and show what he can do. Best particularly disappointed for me, possibly vindicating Gatland's decision to leave him out of the initial squad.

Back row: O'Brien and Heaslip were sensational today, as Tipuric was in Hong Kong. That could be a great back row right there. I have Croft as my front runner for the bench, but you could take your pick between him, Lydiate and Faletau at the moment. Warburton will obviously come back into it as captain and it will be interesting to see how he goes coming into the side against the reds.

Half-backs: Murray was really good coming on and picking up where Phillips left off against the Barbarians, but I think he tried to do a little too much himself today and it didn't always work. He's still got credit in the bank, but it will be interesting to see how Youngs goes in his start. Sexton was phenomenal, while Farrell took his try nicely after coming on. Really good for him, as we need him in form to put pressure on Sexton. But Sexton ran the show.

Centres: Both excellent on Saturday, both excellent today. Tough to pick, so I've reverted to the tried and tested with Tuilagi offering more x-factor off the bench. Expect another reshuffle in the coming games, I'd like to see Tuilagi have another run at 12 with Davies outside him against the Reds, before seeing Roberts and O'Driscoll back together next Wednesday. But 4 strong options for the Lions in this area.

Back-three: I thought Halfpenny was at fault on one kick-and-chase in the first half, but in the second half he did all his basics right and his goal-kicking was phenomenal. After two easy ones to start he nailed them from both touchlines and 11 from 11 speaks for itself. North and Bowe both shone today as well, North ran strongly but Bowe showed some nice touches as well and some of the interplay between him and Sexton was really nice. Cuthbert comes into the equation with his tries on the weekend, and Hogg could also force his way into the 23.

Very interested to watch the Reds game now. Jenkins, Youngs (both), Parling and Warburton especially all have loads to prove on their first starts on tours, and could all force their way right into the picture.

Anyone know how long Kearney is out for? Healy picked up an injury in the first half too and was stretchered off.

Good analysis so far

There is still a way to go, but some players have really started to put their hands up and are setting a standard.

The centres are going to be a tough decision, think I agree with Roberts and BOD at the moment - I hope they start together against the Red (although they might want to give BOD a week between games)

That was my thought on O'Driscoll. Maybe they'll want to test out their back-ups against the stronger opposition as well? Because they have more to prove?

Completely agree that there's a long way to go, and players still have time to force the coaches' hands, but I think the starting team is starting to take shape, especially in the backs where Phillips, Sexton and Halfpenny look to have earned their starting shirts already.

has 1/2-P really earned a starting spot though? sure he's a great kicker but I thought Hogg looked really sharp at the week-end and added more than 1/2-P in open play TBH. Or do we fit Halfpenny on the wing?

Mad for Chelsea wrote:has 1/2-P really earned a starting spot though? sure he's a great kicker but I thought Hogg looked really sharp at the week-end and added more than 1/2-P in open play TBH. Or do we fit Halfpenny on the wing?

I think Halfpenny has to play really, and if Hogg can force his way into a starting place then Halfpenny will be accommodated on the wing. Could Hogg play on the wing?

Halfpenny's not just in for his goal-kicking. His all-round game is good enough to have him competing for a test jersey, but his goal-kicking makes him invaluable in my opinion.

robbo277 wrote:

wales606 wrote:

robbo277 wrote:My front-runners from the test at this (early) stage:

Mako, Hibbard, Jones, Gray, O'Connell, O'Brien, Tipuric, Heaslip, Phillips, Sexton, North, Roberts, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Halfpenny
T Youngs, Jenkins, Cole, Parling, Croft, Murray, Farrell, Tuilagi

Yet to start a match: Jenkins, T Youngs, Stevens, Parling, Warburton, B Youngs, Kearney

Obviously those not to start will start this weekend (if fit) and can further press their claims for the starting line-up and the 22.

Tight-five: I have reverted to the Hong Kong tight 5 on mass. I think today's starting tight 5 looked poor, but Vunipola, Youngs and Parling all added something when they came on so get added to the bench. Jenkins will be looking to perform as he can against the Reds and show what he can do. Best particularly disappointed for me, possibly vindicating Gatland's decision to leave him out of the initial squad.

Back row: O'Brien and Heaslip were sensational today, as Tipuric was in Hong Kong. That could be a great back row right there. I have Croft as my front runner for the bench, but you could take your pick between him, Lydiate and Faletau at the moment. Warburton will obviously come back into it as captain and it will be interesting to see how he goes coming into the side against the reds.

Half-backs: Murray was really good coming on and picking up where Phillips left off against the Barbarians, but I think he tried to do a little too much himself today and it didn't always work. He's still got credit in the bank, but it will be interesting to see how Youngs goes in his start. Sexton was phenomenal, while Farrell took his try nicely after coming on. Really good for him, as we need him in form to put pressure on Sexton. But Sexton ran the show.

Centres: Both excellent on Saturday, both excellent today. Tough to pick, so I've reverted to the tried and tested with Tuilagi offering more x-factor off the bench. Expect another reshuffle in the coming games, I'd like to see Tuilagi have another run at 12 with Davies outside him against the Reds, before seeing Roberts and O'Driscoll back together next Wednesday. But 4 strong options for the Lions in this area.

Back-three: I thought Halfpenny was at fault on one kick-and-chase in the first half, but in the second half he did all his basics right and his goal-kicking was phenomenal. After two easy ones to start he nailed them from both touchlines and 11 from 11 speaks for itself. North and Bowe both shone today as well, North ran strongly but Bowe showed some nice touches as well and some of the interplay between him and Sexton was really nice. Cuthbert comes into the equation with his tries on the weekend, and Hogg could also force his way into the 23.

Very interested to watch the Reds game now. Jenkins, Youngs (both), Parling and Warburton especially all have loads to prove on their first starts on tours, and could all force their way right into the picture.

Anyone know how long Kearney is out for? Healy picked up an injury in the first half too and was stretchered off.

Good analysis so far

There is still a way to go, but some players have really started to put their hands up and are setting a standard.

The centres are going to be a tough decision, think I agree with Roberts and BOD at the moment - I hope they start together against the Red (although they might want to give BOD a week between games)

That was my thought on O'Driscoll. Maybe they'll want to test out their back-ups against the stronger opposition as well? Because they have more to prove?

Completely agree that there's a long way to go, and players still have time to force the coaches' hands, but I think the starting team is starting to take shape, especially in the backs where Phillips, Sexton and Halfpenny look to have earned their starting shirts already.

there's a long way to go

Is not a luxury available on a short tour .

Now the thought of losing the attacking prowess of North, Bowe and Cuthbert on the wing to encorporate 1/2p's kicking worries me. He isn't offering much ball in hand, and today made a few mistakes.

He will get better however, and if his goal kicking is that important to us FB will have to be his position.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Now the thought of losing the attacking prowess of North, Bowe and Cuthbert on the wing to encorporate 1/2p's kicking worries me. He isn't offering much ball in hand, and today made a few mistakes.

He will get better however, and if his goal kicking is that important to us FB will have to be his position.

is his goalkicking that important though? Sexton struggled in the first game, but is usually a very reliable kicker. At the moment I don't think I'd want Halfpenny in the team, don't think he offers enough in attack from FB for my liking...

Halfpenny will start at FB

Even if he wasn't kicking goals he is still the best FB available - he is incredibly solid and dependable, just what you want from a FB and just what Kearney provided 4 years ago.

Halfpenny will almost without a doubt start. I agree that Hogg is a better attacking FB though, and I've always thought that Halfpenny is a better wing than a FB, showing more of his attacking ability there, but the options Wales & Cardiff have in the back 3 mean they prefer him at FB.

At this stage I'm not sure Hogg adds more at FB than some of the primary wing options add in their position though. I may be biased, but Bowe has to start for me, his looking for work and how he links up with Sexton make him stand out, and the other wings have made very strong cases as well.

I'd certainly be interested to see Hogg, Halfpenny & Bowe get an outing in one of the warm up games, but I don't think Gatland will look at it as a starting option, though we might see it with someone coming on from the bench.


On a side note, what do people think of the collar on the Lions shirt? I'm really not a fan, clearly just a tacked on bit of material to the normal adidas shirt, makes it look like a Peter Pan or a Quaker collar. Have a proper collar or none at all.

Big no to 1/2P on the wing - there's no point in that whatsoever with the attacking talents we have available on the wing.

Unless Hogg has a blinder and shows some scintillating attacking skills then I think 1/2P has the starting spot nailed on. Even if Hogg manages that I can see Gatland picking him for his goal kicking and composure at the back.

gelodge wrote:Halfpenny will almost without a doubt start. I agree that Hogg is a better attacking FB though, and I've always thought that Halfpenny is a better wing than a FB, showing more of his attacking ability there, but the options Wales & Cardiff have in the back 3 mean they prefer him at FB.

At this stage I'm not sure Hogg adds more at FB than some of the primary wing options add in their position though. I may be biased, but Bowe has to start for me, his looking for work and how he links up with Sexton make him stand out, and the other wings have made very strong cases as well.

I'd certainly be interested to see Hogg, Halfpenny & Bowe get an outing in one of the warm up games, but I don't think Gatland will look at it as a starting option, though we might see it with someone coming on from the bench.


On a side note, what do people think of the collar on the Lions shirt? I'm really not a fan, clearly just a tacked on bit of material to the normal adidas shirt, makes it look like a Peter Pan or a Quaker collar. Have a proper collar or none at all.

Dont like the collar at all. Would look better without a collar. Nice kit though.

GunsGerms wrote:Dont like the collar at all. Would look better without a collar. Nice kit though.

Yeah, agree with this. The Warm Up top that Jenks had on all game is nice and doesn't have a collar, so if I was to buy a shirt, I'd get that. As it goes I just bought a t shirt this year.

Nice Test XV shaping up :

1.Vunipola/Healy/Jenkins/Grant?
2.Hibbard
3.Jones
4.Gray
5.POC
6.SOB
7.Tupiric
8.Heaslip
9.Philips
10.Jonny
11.North
12.Roberts/Tuilagi
13.BOD
14.Cuthbert/Bowe
15.1/2p

Obviously Warbs is going to have a say about this. Wing still pretty tight aswell.

Will Gats give SOB a go at 8? 6.Warbs 7.Tupiric 8.SOB

1.Vunipola
2.Hibbard
3.Jones
4.Gray
5.POC
6.Lydiate
7.Warburton
8. Heaslip
9.Philips
10.Jonny
11. Bowe
12.Roberts
13.BOD
14.Cuthbert
15.1/2p

06 Warburton
07 Tipuric
08 Heaslip

To me this is by fare the best balanced backrow. I really want to at least see it in a warm up game. I fear that the Lions coaches won't move Warburton like that though.

RubyGubys team is pretty spot on IMO but some tight calls all around.