Heineken Cup Draw and Discussion. - Opening round fixtures announced.

First topic message reminder :

Pool 1 - Leinster, Northampton Saints, Ospreys, Castres Olympique

Pool 2 - Toulon, Cardiff Blues, Glasgow Warriors, Exeter Chiefs

Pool 3 - Toulouse, Saracens, Connacht, Zebre

Pool 4 - Clermont Auvergne, Harlequins, Scarlets, Racing Metro 92

Pool 5 - Ulster, Leicester Tigers, Montpellier, Benetton Treviso

Pool 6 - Munster, Perpignan, Edinburgh, Gloucester

First round:- Commencing 11/10/2013

Pool 1:
Castres v Northampton Saints
Ospreys v Leinster

Pool 2:
Exeter Chiefs v Cardiff Blues
Toulon v Glasgow Warriors

Pool 3:
Connacht v Saracens
Toulouse v Zebre

Pool 4:
Quins v Scarlets
Racing Métro v ASM Clermont Auvergne

Pool 5:
Ulster v  Leicester Tigers
Treviso v Montpellier

Pool 6:
Edinburgh v Munster
Gloucester v Perpignan

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/21719.php#.Ue0Qm43T_Tp

logansrun38 wrote:So I can only post if I'm positive? Cretin.

No you can only post if you post constructive, and ditch the constant digging/trolling of certain posters and teams.

logansrun38 I can't quite understand why you dislike Quins so much.

Surely if you claim to support them you want them to win? Even if you think they are poor?

There is no doubt Quins have a difficult pool but they should feel like they can win all home games.

Generally when I look at HC pools - I want my team to win 5 (this season I think 6 is achievable). I think Quins are capable of beating Scarlets and Racing Metro away with 3 home wins. After all Quins beat Toulouse away and Biarritz away in the last two HCs.

After last seasons struggles we might target the AP a bit more and rotate the team a bit more this season. Id prefer making the AP final over European play offs.

beshocked wrote:logansrun38 I can't quite understand why you dislike Quins so much.

Surely if you claim to support them you want them to win? Even if you think they are poor?

There is no doubt Quins have a difficult pool but they should feel like they can win all home games.

Generally when I look at HC pools - I want my team to win 5 (this season I think 6 is achievable). I think Quins are capable of beating Scarlets and Racing Metro away with 3 home wins. After all Quins beat Toulouse away and Biarritz away in the last two HCs.

Quins have NO chance in the HC. You clearly know nothing.

longansrun - do you want to elaborte on that comment at all? If Beshocked clearly knows nothing, can you provide some information to back that arguement up? After all just one liners telling posters they are wrong and know nothing, doesn't really add anything to the debate.

yawn

That's more like it.

logansrun38 wrote:

beshocked wrote:logansrun38 I can't quite understand why you dislike Quins so much.

Surely if you claim to support them you want them to win? Even if you think they are poor?

There is no doubt Quins have a difficult pool but they should feel like they can win all home games.

Generally when I look at HC pools - I want my team to win 5 (this season I think 6 is achievable). I think Quins are capable of beating Scarlets and Racing Metro away with 3 home wins. After all Quins beat Toulouse away and Biarritz away in the last two HCs.

Quins have NO chance in the HC. You clearly know nothing.

You clearly lack knowledge of teams that play the quick agressive game. Quinns still have alot of the team they had a few years ago and the young stars are older, stronger and wiser.
As Be said they should win 2/3 home games. I still think they will beat scarlets away though i would like to see scarlets do well.so that is 3/4 games. Quinn stand a really go chance of scoring tries and TP so can get a second place spot.

The way you make it sound is that they will be like Edinburgh last year who were rubbish.

Logan were do you think they will struggle against Scarlets and Racing. If you say all over that implies you expect them to finish last which is a good bet if it came off we knowone expects
L

This year i expect to see alot of tight groips fighting it out for second with only Sarries/toulouse looking secure for a second place.

I can see a couple of groups ending with first on 4w second & third 3w and fourth 2w. That really would make the last round really interesting.

These are my early predictions for the quarter finals.

Seeding wise:

1.Saracens
2.Munster
3.Leinster
4.Toulon
5.Leicester
6.Clermont
7.Toulouse
8.Ulster

Not very bold I admit.

Brendan to be fair to Logansrun Racing Metro will be tougher this time round with their new signings though losing talisman Sireli Bobo is quite a blow.

Rumours are that they are after Halfpenny too.

If Racing click they will be dangerous. They have made a lot of changes though

The issue i have with racing is that they have a good team yet Sarries beat them twice and munster should have too.

Racing will be like Toulon it will take a few years to click. Also depends on how their T14 is going.

Brendan is there shame in losing to two of the stronger sides in the HC?

Racing Metro can be criticised for their 2011-12 HC season but not for 2012-13 in my opinion.

They have a lot of additions that could be very handy.

Racing are going to be significantly stronger with Sexton, Tongauiha and many more big signings. Really glad Ulster dodged them as when the draw was being made the last team in our group was going to be Treviso or Racing and we got Treviso. No that Treviso will provide us with anything other than a strong challenge.

Lots of people seem to be giving Racing Metro quite short shrift.
 
When you look at who they're bringing in:
 
Jonny Sexton
Marc Andreu
Walter Desmaison
Davit Khinchagishvili
Juandré Kruger
Virgile Lacombe
Benjamin Lapeyre
Wenceslas Lauret
Dan Lydiate
Laurent Magnaval
Brian Mujati
Soane Tonga’uiha
Adrien Plante
Jamie Roberts,
 
I wouldn't be so confident that they'll be weak.
 
In real money, that's three recent British Lions, a well established Pacific Island prop combo, two of France's best young wingers, a Springbok lock and arguably France's best U20 player.
 
And feic all of that, they've got Ronan O'Gara as a consultant. Surely that fact alone means it's asbestos underpants time for the opposition.

George Carlin wrote:Lots of people seem to be giving Racing Metro quite short shrift.
 
When you look at who they're bringing in:
 
Jonny Sexton
Marc Andreu
Walter Desmaison
Davit Khinchagishvili
Juandré Kruger
Virgile Lacombe
Benjamin Lapeyre
Wenceslas Lauret
Dan Lydiate
Laurent Magnaval
Brian Mujati
Soane Tonga’uiha
Adrien Plante
Jamie Roberts,
 
I wouldn't be so confident that they'll be weak.
 
In real money, that's three recent British Lions, a well established Pacific Island prop combo, two of France's best young wingers, a Springbok lock and arguably France's best U20 player.
 
And feic all of that, they've got Ronan O'Gara as a consultant. Surely that fact alone means it's asbestos underpants time for the opposition.

Thats quite a scary list of players.  A lot of those guy will be going straight into their starting team.

1 - Tonga'uiha
3 - Mujati
5 - Kruger
6 - Lydiate
10 - Sexton
11 - Andreu
12 - Roberts


Combine that with the players they've already got they are going to be a very strong team and even stronger in a season or two's time.  I particularly like the look of having Juan Imhoff and Marc Andreu on the wings.  Not many teams can match that sort of fire power.  They also have Benjamin Fall on top of those two and Juan Martin Hernandez at full back.  Very strong back 3.  Looking at their whole squad though, one area they don't look particularly strong is the back row.

Just to add to the above, I think Racing's Argentine wing Juan Imhoff is fast becoming one of the best wingers around. He is lightning fast and has a very good all round skill set. He has also scored 11 international trys for Argentina in 14 caps. Hugely impressive return. Also scored some very impressive trys for Racing in last seasons HC.

They have a MASSIVE churn with even more players leaving than coming in. AND a new coaching setup.

I can't see them getting up to speed in both comps straight away. They will have to prioritise the T14.

Always will have a potential in one off games to upset the apple the. the. cart. with a squad like that though.

That's the issue- can they get all those changes to gel early enough in the season? I'm not sure any club has ever managed that.

To be honest the players they have leaving are mainly quite low quality.  Bobo, Lo Cicero and Barkley are the biggest names and the guys coming in to replace these guys are much better.  They may not gel quickly enough to threaten the cup this season, but as I said above they will still be very strong and even stronger in a season or two's time.

For me, how well they do depends on whether they can get the best out of Sexton. And how we do against them depends whether Nev is "2nd half of last season Nev" or "2012 Nev"

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Always will have a potential in one off games to upset the apple the. the. cart. with a squad like that though.

Well said.

So what are saying for RM's first XV, then? Something like this:
 
15 Juan Martin Hernandez
14 Juan Imhoff
13 Henry Chavancy
12 Jamie Roberts
11 Marc Andreu
10 Jonathan Sexton
09 Maxime Machenaud
 
08 Masinivanua Matadigo
07 Bernard le Roux
06 Dan Lydiate
05 André Kruger
04 Manuel Carizza
03 Brian Mujati
02 Dimitri Szarzewski
01 Soane Tonga’uiha
 
I'll level with you. That team isn't rubbish  .

Certainly going to take a trip down PYS for the Racing game. Be great to see some of those names plus Lydiate and Roberts back on Welsh soil

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Always will have a potential in one off games to upset the apple the. the. cart. with a squad like that though.

Well said.

Our ex prim minister used to mix up his words. He always said upset the appletart instead of.... I was going for a st st stuttering version but the swear filter seemed to clean "te" up into "the"

George Carlin wrote:So what are saying for RM's first XV, then? Something like this:
 
15 Juan Martin Hernandez
14 Juan Imhoff
13 Henry Chavancy
12 Jamie Roberts
11 Marc Andreu
10 Jonathan Sexton
09 Maxime Machenaud
 
08 Masinivanua Matadigo
07 Bernard le Roux
06 Dan Lydiate
05 André Kruger
04 Manuel Carizza
03 Brian Mujati
02 Dimitri Szarzewski
01 Soane Tonga’uiha
 
I'll level with you. That team isn't rubbish  .

Looks about right, Fall and Estabenez well also get a look in in the backline, so they've got good depth in the centre and back 3 as well. But as I said above, back row doesn't look that scary.

Whats 5 feet long, red, and warms the orsehole?



































A Munster scarf.

2013/2014 Heineken Cup winner favourites.

Clermont Auvergne 5/1
Toulon 5/1
Leinster 7/1
Toulouse 15/2
Saracens 10/1
Ulster 12/1
Leicester Tigers 12/1

Seems fair. Out of interest how long are Quins' odds?

25/1 on Paddy Power for Harlequins, may vary a little from bookie to bookie but not by much. What strikes me is that instead of the 6 teams the bookies think will win their pools being favourites, they've gone for the winners of 4 pools and both Ulster and Tigers from pool 5. They aren't giving anyone in Pool 6 much hope.