Heineken Cup Draw and Discussion. - Opening round fixtures announced.

First topic message reminder :

Pool 1 - Leinster, Northampton Saints, Ospreys, Castres Olympique

Pool 2 - Toulon, Cardiff Blues, Glasgow Warriors, Exeter Chiefs

Pool 3 - Toulouse, Saracens, Connacht, Zebre

Pool 4 - Clermont Auvergne, Harlequins, Scarlets, Racing Metro 92

Pool 5 - Ulster, Leicester Tigers, Montpellier, Benetton Treviso

Pool 6 - Munster, Perpignan, Edinburgh, Gloucester

First round:- Commencing 11/10/2013

Pool 1:
Castres v Northampton Saints
Ospreys v Leinster

Pool 2:
Exeter Chiefs v Cardiff Blues
Toulon v Glasgow Warriors

Pool 3:
Connacht v Saracens
Toulouse v Zebre

Pool 4:
Quins v Scarlets
Racing Métro v ASM Clermont Auvergne

Pool 5:
Ulster v  Leicester Tigers
Treviso v Montpellier

Pool 6:
Edinburgh v Munster
Gloucester v Perpignan

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/21719.php#.Ue0Qm43T_Tp

Have already started a separate thread for us cycloptic, celtic sweaties but worth reiterating here that from a Glasgow perspective, I'm pretty happy with that. When you look at the pool based on this past season's league position:

POOL 2
1.Toulon (Domestic league placing this year: 2nd)
2. Cardiff Blues (Domestic league placing this year: 9th)
3. Glasgow Warriors (Domestic league placing this year: 3rd)
4. Exeter Chiefs (Domestic league placing this year: 6th),

it's definitely doable if we play to our potential.

I don't care that the top seeded team is Toulon. We beat Toulouse away a couple of seasons ago and I'd rather have a glamour tie that we can get our teeth into. Bring it on.

Edit: ASBO - please confirm your allegiances now.

Got to feel for Clermont & Harlequins who manage to get Racing in their group. Think Harlequins will need a bit of luck to escape pool 4. Looks like the worst group to me.

Some cracking other groups as well though. One thing for sure the HC group stages look tougher each year.

Welshmushroom wrote:Got to feel for Clermont & Harlequins who manage to get Racing in their group. Think Harlequins will need a bit of luck to escape pool 4. Looks like the worst group to me.

Some cracking other groups as well though. One thing for sure the HC group stages look tougher each year.

But if we get through we will have earned it and our players will feel that and the experience, battle-hardening and confidence it brings- and if we don't we will learn from the experience, much prefer this to too easy a group

Pools 1 and 5 look pretty nasty. Treviso are rapidly improving.

Really good draw for Sarries.

Just saw someone on another forum that Castres have lost a lot of their best players and so won't be near the same side that won the Top 14,Northampton have also lost a lot of key players so pool 1 isn't as bad as it looks..................... I hope

Just saw the groups, gotta say as a Blues fan I'm pretty happy with that...

Toulon I think are beatable away from home, and the odd Wilko non performance doesn't have weaken the side!!!

Glasgow had a great season last year, but their HC pedigree is non existant, and they have a few key players who the analysis teams will have hold of now. Glasgow are beatable, especially with key signings the Blues have made.

Exeter are certainly not the team we wouldve wanted, but they are inexperienced at HC level, and their style might lend itself to our play.

The key to qualification is not to get 2 top sides, to win your home games and to nick away wins against the weaker opposition...

And we get to see player battles like Parra-Care, Evans-Sexton, Byrne-Brown, Barclay-Robshaw, and Lydiate-Robshaw

My fear has been confirmed though - I cant see any Welsh teams make it out of those groups. Pool 6 looks like the easiest to me with Edinburgh, Perpignan & Gloucester, with none of those sides looking to dangerous on paper.

Tolouse and Sarries are massive favourites for qualification!

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Just saw someone on another forum that Castres have lost a lot of their best players and so won't be near the same side that won the Top 14,Northampton have also lost a lot of key players so pool 1 isn't as bad as it looks..................... I hope

Saints have brought some big players in such as Corbisiero and North. I'm not sure they'll be as badly hurt losing Tongauiha who's not what he once was and Mujati as some make out.

You know when your in trouble when the Blues become the great welsh hope

ChequeredJersey wrote:What's the city of Clermont like?

From a strictly touristy PoV, not up to much; but for a rugby weekend, absolutely amazing

Lets look at it from a Pro 12 view.

Munster should get a Home qfinal,
Ulster hopefully should top it, but it will be a very tough job, Prem champs, Treviso are better each year, and Montpellier. one slip up by any team and its europe over.
Leinster - tough but should top it.
Connacht - have Zebre again the jammy sobs, 2 wins and will look to upset one of the big teams at home

Welsh regions
, was homing one would make a run to semi-final or final as rugby in Wales could do with it.
Ospreys - anyone could win it, but think Ospreys may get second, which won't be a qualifeing spot for the next round.
Blues - think 3 or 4th in group Toulon, and Glasgow are better.
Scarlets Clermot and Harliquins will make it tough, 2nd spot achieable but will it be enough?

Glasgow
Hope they can make a run in Europe this year as we've been bigging them up. Toulon are strong but I think Glagow could win and should get second.
Edinburgh would 2nd in this group get a Q final, or Almin, Edinburgh should be able to aim for that.

George Carlin wrote:Have already started a separate thread for us cycloptic, celtic sweaties but worth reiterating here that from a Glasgow perspective, I'm pretty happy with that. When you look at the pool based on this past season's league position:

POOL 2
1.Toulon (Domestic league placing this year: 2nd)
2. Cardiff Blues (Domestic league placing this year: 9th)
3. Glasgow Warriors (Domestic league placing this year: 3rd)
4. Exeter Chiefs (Domestic league placing this year: 6th),

it's definitely doable if we play to our potential.

I don't care that the top seeded team is Toulon. We beat Toulouse away a couple of seasons ago and I'd rather have a glamour tie that we can get our teeth into. Bring it on.

Edit: ASBO - please confirm your allegiances now.

GC, I confirm that I will continue my support of both Exe and the Weege in all matches!

Do people think that the influx of previously British & Irish based players to Racing is likely to have them focusing more on the Heineken Cup (i.e. Johnny Sexton, Jamie Roberts, Dan Lydiate, Ronan O'Gara (as coach), Brian Mujati, Soane Tonga'uiha).

That group of players have appeared in 11 European Cup Finals between them and will be likely to be still fired up about Europe.

Or will Racing do what Castres have done and focus exclusively on one competition (i.e. French league). Both the head coach and assistant coach from Castres are joining Racing Metro. Will they implement this policy upon the team.

That will be very interesting to see I think.

thebluesmancometh wrote:You know when your in trouble when the Blues become the great welsh hope

I'm not that optimistic

The Ospreys are probably still the best hope if they can get a fit team and Adam gives them a platform

The Blues got shamed by Toulon this year and I can't see any difference this year

Glasgow were excellent at the end of the season, winning at CAP may be possible, but not away

Exeter will be tought away, but we should manage at home

Can only see us winning 1-3 games

Welshmushroom wrote:My fear has been confirmed though - I cant see any Welsh teams make it out of those groups. Pool 6 looks like the easiest to me with Edinburgh, Perpignan & Gloucester, with none of those sides looking to dangerous on paper.

Can't describe how glad I am. How we managed to avoid so many tougher teams is excellent.

If we don't get a home quarter we have no excuses.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Just saw someone on another forum that Castres have lost a lot of their best players and so won't be near the same side that won the Top 14,Northampton have also lost a lot of key players so pool 1 isn't as bad as it looks..................... I hope

Saints have brought some big players in such as Corbisiero and North. I'm not sure they'll be as badly hurt losing Tongauiha who's not what he once was and Mujati as some make out.

Okay so maybe they won't fall apart but even this year they weren't great so while I'll respect them I won't fear them.

I think the Scarlets have a tough group, I want them to finish in the Top 3 because that would be an improvement on their 2012/2013 HC group position. Likewise, I want the Ospreys and the Blues to improve on their third place finishes in 2012/2013; I want both to finish in the Top 2. If one Welsh region can improve on their position last year, I think that would be great.

I want a million quid. Sadly not everything we want is on the cards

Welshmushroom wrote:I want a million quid. Sadly not everything we want is on the cards

I think the Ospreys, Blues and the Scarlets improving on their 2012/2013 HC group positions in the 2013/2014 HC is possible.

Surely Ospreys will have their goal as winning the group and getting a home quarter final? They should not be contemplating anything less.

They have been to Dublin and won against Leinster in knockout matches on multiple occasions.

Belief is key in the Heineken Cup and Ospreys need to believe that they can beat Leinster, beat Castres and beat Saints.

I think no reason they cannot. They have never ever won a Heineken Cup pool. Surely its about time they pull the finger out and change that.

international197 wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:I want a million quid. Sadly not everything we want is on the cards

I think the Ospreys, Blues and the Scarlets improving on their 2012/2013 HC positions in the 2013/2014 HC is possible.

At least the Scarlets cannot do worse than last year.

The Ospreys may be in a really awful group, but they have had some good wins against Leinster before, Saints have lost their beasts in the front row and Castre have yet to set the hec alight, so I think they coud do welll injury permitting

As a quins fan I feel that that is a really tough group - with 2 massive French teams. I will enjoy watching the games, perhaps 1 or 2 away fixtures but its a big ask to get out of this group.

Exeter should be pleased as they can reach the KO stages as 2nd in group.
Sarries and Tigers should look to progress too as they have the Italian sides.

propdavid_london wrote:As a quins fan I feel that that is a really tough group - with 2 massive French teams. I will enjoy watching the games, perhaps 1 or 2 away fixtures but its a big ask to get out of this group.

Exeter should be pleased as they can reach the KO stages as 2nd in group.
Sarries and Tigers should look to progress too as they have the Italian sides.

But with our team don't you think that the experience of a tough group will be better in the long-term? Either we make it and have a great shot at the Cup and confidence and learn a lot or we don't, still learn from playing the best, and get to focus on getting back the AP without the distraction of Europe, or we do OK, get a mix of the two and have a great chance of winning the Amlin? I can't help but feel that we were both overstretched in both competitions at the end of last season and undercooked in Europe

Pool 1 - Leinster, Northampton Saints, Ospreys, Castres Olympique

Pool 2 - Toulon, Cardiff Blues, Glasgow Warriors, Exeter Chiefs

Pool 3 - Toulouse, Saracens, Connacht, Zebre

Pool 4 - Clermont Auvergne, Harlequins, Scarlets, Racing Metro 92

Pool 5 - Ulster, Leicester Tigers, Montpellier, Benetton Treviso

Pool 6 - Munster, Perpignan, Edinburgh, Gloucester

Pool 3 is a joke.

Pools 1, 4 & 5 look tasty.

Portnoy - Pool 3 isn't that bad. Zebre are unlikely to cause any worry but Saracens and Toulouse are both championship contenders and their head to heads will be excellent. Connacht are capable of an upset on occasion and thats the spice.

I would say its a more exciting pool than Pool 2 or Pool 6.

Just a quick reminder guys - Connacht and Zebre were in the same pool last year as well - only one team got out of the group. Don't take it as a given that Toulouse and Saracens will both qualify.

I don't think having Benetton Treviso in your group mean the runner up spot will come from that group anymore. Tigers will remember Treviso 13-14 Leicester, and they beat Ospreys last year.
Beat Biarritz and drew with Ospreys the year before,

Finished 7th in the league,

They can't be taken lightly.

red_stag wrote:Portnoy - Pool 3 isn't that bad. Zebre are unlikely to cause any worry but Saracens and Toulouse are both championship contenders and their head to heads will be excellent. Connacht are capable of an upset on occasion and thats the spice.

I would say its a more exciting pool than Pool 2 or Pool 6.

Tricolore will be flying on the day that Zebre don't lose. Connacht didn't qualify (again). The pool is Sarries v Les Toules. End of.

greytiger wrote:

red_stag wrote:Portnoy - Pool 3 isn't that bad. Zebre are unlikely to cause any worry but Saracens and Toulouse are both championship contenders and their head to heads will be excellent. Connacht are capable of an upset on occasion and thats the spice.

I would say its a more exciting pool than Pool 2 or Pool 6.

Tricolore will be flying on the day that Zebre don't lose. Connacht didn't qualify (again). The pool is Sarries v Les Toules. End of.

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all. However why is a two way fight between Saracens and Toulouse (two of strongest teams in the tournament) a "joke of a pool".

I think it has more quality than Pool 2 or Pool 6 which don't have the same amount of class.

I hope Zebre will improve next season. I want them to be tough opposition for Connacht, Saracens and Toulouse, and every other team that they play against. I believe Treviso are a better team in 2012/2013 (finished 7th in the Rabo) than they were in 2011/2012 (finished 10th in the Rabo), and hopefully Zebre can be better in 2013/2014 than they have been in 2012/2013 (finished 12th in the Rabo).

red_stag wrote:

greytiger wrote:

red_stag wrote:Portnoy - Pool 3 isn't that bad. Zebre are unlikely to cause any worry but Saracens and Toulouse are both championship contenders and their head to heads will be excellent. Connacht are capable of an upset on occasion and thats the spice.

I would say its a more exciting pool than Pool 2 or Pool 6.

Tricolore will be flying on the day that Zebre don't lose. Connacht didn't qualify (again). The pool is Sarries v Les Toules. End of.

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all. However why is a two way fight between Saracens and Toulouse (two of strongest teams in the tournament) a "joke of a pool".

I think it has more quality than Pool 2 or Pool 6 which don't have the same amount of class.

Pool 2 and 6(arguably) might be as good as 3.

But I'll stand by my estimates.

Pretty tough assignment for us to secure a home draw in Pool 5. Any kind of quarter-final appearance will be good.

Leicester will want to avenge their previous visits to Ravenhill, Montpellier an unknown quantity but plenty of star quality and Treviso getting better each year. I think its a tougher pool for us than last years.

Notch wrote:Pretty tough assignment for us to secure a home draw in Pool 5. Any kind of quarter-final appearance will be good.

Leicester will want to avenge their previous visits to Ravenhill, Montpellier an unknown quantity but plenty of star quality and Treviso getting better each year. I think its a tougher pool for us than last years.

you know how it goes Notch : TBPs wins at home, one win away and 2 LBPs should be enough to top the group. business as usual for Ulster . Ulster has the advantage of playing Treviso every year so should know how to get a result there.

Maybe so, but I'd love to get a couple of big away wins in France and England. It'll be tough but there's no reason why we can't!

Hmmm...not sure O's are going to make it out of their group again next season! Still, there's a couple of potential good trips for me in it.

Notch wrote:Maybe so, but I'd love to get a couple of big away wins in France and England. It'll be tough but there's no reason why we can't!

Don't come looking for 'big wins' at WR Notch.
I'll be expecting nine points off Ulster.

Pleased with that draw! Three good away trips there and provided we aren't destroyed by injuries, we can have a bloody good go at it.

Maybe a miracle match or two.

Sabbatical over!

ASBO - here we come - take it the friendlies will be binned now ?

Where is the the Jimbopip fella ? Take he is on one of his frequent hols abroad.

Going to Toulon and Exeter - will give Cardiff a miss though. Rather odd lot.

WARRIORS - WHATEVER IT TAKES

Tough, tough group for us. Only Leinster can lay claim (arguably) to a tougher group. Maybe Clermont also.

I suspect the Leicester games will be back to back in december if sky have anything to say about it so we will be home and away to montpelier and treviso prior to that. A win in both those games is essential

Standulstermen wrote:Tough, tough group for us. Only Leinster can lay claim (arguably) to a tougher group. Maybe Clermont also.

I suspect the Leicester games will be back to back in december if sky have anything to say about it so we will be home and away to montpelier and treviso prior to that. A win in both those games is essential

Or BT of course - Ulster sponsors.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:

will give Cardiff a miss though. Rather odd lot.

2013: Perpignan, Edinburgh, Gloucester
2012: Edinburgh, Racing, Sarries
2011: Saints, Scarlets, Castres

How do Munster keep getting such easy pools? Well jealous, so I am!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:2013: Perpignan, Edinburgh, Gloucester
2012: Edinburgh, Racing, Sarries
2011: Saints, Scarlets, Castres

How do Munster keep getting such easy pools? Well jealous, so I am!

Deluded more like. Getting the excuses in early Pete

Oh not at all, I am under no impression that Munster had difficult pools and I am not talking about conspiracy theories they are just lucky in that regard. Looking at our pool and the players we are losing I think we would be doing very well to get out of it

greytiger wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Tough, tough group for us. Only Leinster can lay claim (arguably) to a tougher group. Maybe Clermont also.

I suspect the Leicester games will be back to back in december if sky have anything to say about it so we will be home and away to montpelier and treviso prior to that. A win in both those games is essential

Or BT of course - Ulster sponsors.

They have no say this season.

For ulster we need to kick in from this season and be better.

Mont (H) 5 points
Mont (A) 4 points
Treviso (H) 5 points
Treviso (A) minimum 4
Leicester (H) 4 minimum
Leicester ( A) would take 1

That's what I think we will need to top the group . Go do it lads!

Munster's group is the very one I jokingly said I'd like to see Leinster get a few days ago. But I laughed it off as being too much wishful thinking.

Munster stole the joke!

wales606 wrote:

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:

will give Cardiff a miss though. Rather odd lot.

He's right though and we had 2 seemingly rival supporters' clubs till not so long ago, both organising separate transport to the same away game. The EDF final at Twickers for example. How odd is that? I must admit however we are getting better at not being odd.