Quins will get hammered in the HC next season

by logansrun38 Fri 07 Jun 2013, 3:34 pm

First topic message reminder :

Oh dear, looks like midtable looms in the AP and utter humiliation in the HC.

Pathetic

by logansrun38 Tue 11 Jun 2013, 8:52 pm

The performances against Tigers in the semi and Munster were awful. Utterly humiliating. Quins were second best all over the pitch. The LV cup is a meaningless competition so I couldn't care less about that.

by ChequeredJersey Tue 11 Jun 2013, 8:58 pm

Against Tigers where we were competing with them all over the pitch for 50 minutes you mean? And the match started to go downhill after a (IMO correct but still) contentious yellow carding of our best player? Against Munster, agreed, there were no positives

by logansrun38 Tue 11 Jun 2013, 9:10 pm

Tigers out scored us 4 tries to 1. It was a total shambles. Matching them for 50 minutes is irrelevant if you get hammered in the last 30.
Next excuse?

by ChequeredJersey Tue 11 Jun 2013, 9:19 pm

Right, fine, go support whichever Club you choose. Don't have the temerity to come crying back if Quins positively surprise you though. You have the right to support whomever you want but I think your Club deserves more faith and more patience than you seem to be willing to offer

by formerly known as Sam Tue 11 Jun 2013, 9:37 pm

Interesting point about the lack of investment. How much has been spent retaining the key players such as Robson, Robshaw, Easter, Care, Evans and Brown. I doubt there's another 10 on more money than Evans.

Even so the Quins should not be short of dollar nor should they be bouncing along the roof of the salary cap. Perhaps it's time they add some more depth in quality to facilitate a better challenge on multiple front as there's not an awful lot of rotation at the minute. A big nasty second row, quality footballing centre, a touch more depth at prop and maybe an experienced backrow option are all options I'd look at.

by ChequeredJersey Tue 11 Jun 2013, 9:56 pm

Every Quins fan wants that to happen. Until it is proven to not happen, I am not worried

by logansrun38 Wed 12 Jun 2013, 8:15 am

Quins had a huge opportunity to really become one Europes top clubs after they won the AP but they blew it. Season ticket sales and attendances will be down next season thanks to the clubs ludicrous price hike and the mediocrity of the team. O'shea is completely out of his depth.

by red_stag Wed 12 Jun 2013, 8:20 am

Does Conor O'Shea decide the ticket prices and systems for the club?

by logansrun38 Wed 12 Jun 2013, 8:31 am

No but he'll be responsible for the mid table rugby his mid table side are playing.

by HongKongCherry Wed 12 Jun 2013, 9:15 am

How much was the price increase for season tickets?

Glaws had a fair few people stop buying a ST after the end of Dean Ryan's era when the wheels fell off. I've never really understood that ethos; only 1 team is ever going to win the Jeff in each year, so should the other 11 sides expect to not retain their STHs? I buy a ST every year because I enjoy watching top class rugby - it's not always played by Glaws though! If you buy a ST with the expectation of success you are always going to end up being disappointed more often than not.

by red_stag Wed 12 Jun 2013, 9:20 am

The trick is to do what Munster did when the bandwagon rolled around in the late 2000s. A 10 Year Season Ticket!

Logansrun is it that you see other teams improving so much? Quins haven't lost many players. They are not particularly affected by the Lions Tour (I don't think they have any players?).

Where do you see this big impovement from all other teams. Chiefs? Glaws? Bath? London Irish? Sale? Wasps?

by logansrun38 Wed 12 Jun 2013, 9:31 am

i see improvement from Tigers, Sarries, Glos, Saints, Wasps and maybe Bath. Irish have to favourites for the drop. The rest will be mid table or lower.

Quins squad wasnt good enought last season and it has got weaker for next.

We have 2 senior locks and three kids; 2 (admittedly promising) young tight heads and PDJ (even Lambert would be better) and 2 average at best loose heads.
Evans is past it; our centres are one dimensional and non of our wings are quick enough.

What ever way you look at it Quins have gone backwards.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 12 Jun 2013, 9:37 am

HongKongCherry wrote:How much was the price increase for season tickets?

Glaws had a fair few people stop buying a ST after the end of Dean Ryan's era when the wheels fell off. I've never really understood that ethos; only 1 team is ever going to win the Jeff in each year, so should the other 11 sides expect to not retain their STHs? I buy a ST every year because I enjoy watching top class rugby - it's not always played by Glaws though! If you buy a ST with the expectation of success you are always going to end up being disappointed more often than not.

Thanks to having a ST I saw some hugely entertaining matches and some great performances, not always from Tigers. In fact the best performance I saw all season was when Quins visited us in the regular season.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 12 Jun 2013, 11:32 am

logansrun38 wrote:Quins had a huge opportunity to really become one Europes top clubs after they won the AP but they blew it. Season ticket sales and attendances will be down next season thanks to the clubs ludicrous price hike and the mediocrity of the team. O'shea is completely out of his depth.

How did winning a single AP give us a huge opportunity to become one of Europe's elite? I really struggle to understand you. Any way, we'll see what happens, though I'd be interested in knowing

a) who you would have instead of O'Shea
b) who you would have/would bring in
c) how you would have done things differently last season

You lnow, something constructive, not just moaning?

by **LondonTiger** Wed 12 Jun 2013, 1:28 pm

To become one of Europe's elite, quins would need to increase the size of the Stoop to at least 20k, and fill it every week. Even then the salary cap would hamper things. As it is they seem to be a sustainable business, with a firm foundation.

by tigerleghorn Wed 12 Jun 2013, 5:27 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
logansrun38 wrote:Quins had a huge opportunity to really become one Europes top clubs after they won the AP but they blew it. Season ticket sales and attendances will be down next season thanks to the clubs ludicrous price hike and the mediocrity of the team. O'shea is completely out of his depth.

How did winning a single AP give us a huge opportunity to become one of Europe's elite? I really struggle to understand you. Any way, we'll see what happens, though I'd be interested in knowing

a) who you would have instead of O'Shea
b) who you would have/would bring in
c) how you would have done things differently last season

You lnow, something constructive, not just moaning?

+1

by yappysnap Wed 12 Jun 2013, 9:51 pm

Looking back on last season it seems now like we did too much too early. Topping the league for over the half the season and hammering away in Europe and the LV is all well and good except when it leads to burn out, injuries and the squad not being able to compete with teams that have timed their seasons far better.

Tigers and Sarries both started slowly, did enough to stay in the hunt and then put their foot down when needed. We'll now know that we can't expect to win everything all season and will I hope be a bit smarter with what we focus on next season and how we manage resources at the club.

Ticket sales are nothing to do with the players or coaches, giving the team grief because you are unhappy with back room policy seems childish to me and not what I'd expect of an adult. Don't buy a ST, cherry pick your games and get behind the boys. When the bigwigs see the ST numbers drop they'll re assess.

by logansrun38 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:09 am

Apparently STH sales are very poor for next season at the moment. Guess there are plenty of sensible people out there who dont want to pay more to see a team go backwards.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:39 am

And this years supporter of the year award goes to.......

Whistle

by bluestonevedder Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:03 pm

This surely has got to be up for a 606 end of year award for worst, most subjective and confounded article of the year?

by yappysnap Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:58 pm

Got my and 3 others tickets to the London Double Header today. Already can't wait.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 8:02 pm

yappysnap wrote:Got my and 3 others tickets to the London Double Header today. Already can't wait.

+1

Had mine for a month now. Would happily be a STH if I weren't a debt-ridden student with a net turnover of minus several thousand pounds a year. High up on my list of purchases once I specialise

by **LondonTiger** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 8:42 pm

CJ,

As you move up the ladder the costs increase ever quicker (and not just the MDU fees), before you know it you will have married the sexy nurse who now spends money like it is going out of fashion, yet the twins will be looked after by a nanny.

Better of staying at med school Very Happy

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 8:44 pm

LondonTiger wrote:CJ,

As you move up the ladder the costs increase ever quicker (and not just the MDU fees), before you know it you will have married the sexy nurse who now spends money like it is going out of fashion, yet the twins will be looked after by a nanny.

Better of staying at med school

That advice would have been more useful 5 years ago!

by sad_gimp Wed 19 Jun 2013, 7:59 am

We don't have the squad and resources of Tigers and Sarries...we do pretty well with mostly home grown talent and a few NEQPs.

I'd have a season ticket still if I didn't live the other side of the world!

Even if we played utter dross and ended up getting relegated next season I would still be getting up at silly times of the morning and pulling on a quins shirt to watch games.

Shan't be said to see the back of one of you miserable whinger faux-supporters....club is a better place without you. Plenty of other clubs for you.

by logansrun38 Wed 19 Jun 2013, 8:39 am

At least Im not deluded.

by sad_gimp Wed 19 Jun 2013, 8:49 am

I have no expectations for next season. Wouldn't be that surprised if we did fall behind Glaws and Wasps, they are on the up.

How does that make me deluded?

by **LondonTiger** Wed 19 Jun 2013, 10:55 am

logansrun38 wrote:At least Im not a fan.

fixed

by ChequeredJersey Wed 19 Jun 2013, 10:58 am

I love how the majority of people castigating logan for his fickleness and faithlessness are not Quins fans at all, just sticking up for the concept of loyalty in sport. Thanks guys

by HongKongCherry Wed 19 Jun 2013, 11:01 am

LondonTiger wrote:
logansrun38 wrote:At least Im not a fan.

fixed

by logansrun38 Wed 19 Jun 2013, 3:42 pm

mid gen, you may be happy to follow a mediocre Quins team. I'm not.

The fact that you think that one of the best supported clubs in England shouldnt be aiming for top 2 every season makes you deluded.

by HongKongCherry Wed 19 Jun 2013, 3:53 pm

logansrun38 wrote:mid gen, you may be happy to follow a mediocre Quins team. I'm not.

The fact that you think that one of the best supported clubs in England shouldnt be aiming for top 2 every season makes you deluded.

But stopping your support because they don't make the top 2 makes you deluded

by ChequeredJersey Wed 19 Jun 2013, 3:57 pm

HongKongCherry wrote:
logansrun38 wrote:mid gen, you may be happy to follow a mediocre Quins team. I'm not.

The fact that you think that one of the best supported clubs in England shouldnt be aiming for top 2 every season makes you deluded.

But stopping your support because they don't make the top 2 makes you deluded

This is not true. It makes him faithless and fickle, but I'm not sure it makes him deluded

by HongKongCherry Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:07 pm

Oh contraire CJ. No club is guaranteed to finish in the top 2. You only have 6/1 odds of finishing in those places, so to make your support conditional on such results is pure delusion. It simply will never happen all the time, ergo why support a side knowing that your support must stop. Even the most successful club in the modern era Leicester have finished outside of the top 2 25% of the time since the league turned pro. So it does make him deluded, along with faithless, fickle, a WUM and a few other words that spring to mind! Wink

by sad_gimp Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:12 pm

Sorry but I am just realistic. Like when the world cup comes round...you can get completely absorbed in your club game and the shenanigans that goes on with your national squad.....but end of the day..only one team can win. Is it right to deem every other team and staff an abject failure?

I support quins because i love rugby and I love my team. Winning is a bonus.

by sad_gimp Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:13 pm

Ditto England and DeA Tigers! Will be dining out on one of the lads from my team lining up against England for years Smile

by ChequeredJersey Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:17 pm

As long as we improve I am happy, and that means both bringing in some new faces and MOST IMPORTANTLY working on our future by playing our youth and blooding them, like we have been doing. We did better last season than any Quins fan I know expected

by HongKongCherry Wed 19 Jun 2013, 4:34 pm

I think last season you fell into the same trap Glaws did on 3 occasions. Namely, you came out all guns blasting and by the time you got to the business end of the season your form had started to drop rather than build. I know from Glaws' perspective it was due to a lack of calls ups artificially raising our place in the league, but more importantly it was due to coaching and conditioning mistakes failing to ensure form was built over the season with a view of peaking at the end of the year. COS et al seem bright chaps, so I wonder if they can rise to the challenge of ensuring this doesn't happen again.

by beshocked Thu 20 Jun 2013, 8:56 am

Quins have done well especially after first being relegated then being rocked by Bloodgate. Coming back from two big setbacks like Quins have is impressive.

On the other hand I don't see any signs yet that Quins will be stronger next season. The lack of signings is a clear indication of this.

You could make cases for Tigers,Bath and Sarries for example

It should be right for fans to look where they can improve next season.

Conor O Shea needs to look at why things went so wrong in the latter half of the season.

by yappysnap Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:48 pm

Peaking too soon in the season, not being mentally prepared to take the try bp's against the weaker sides and not changing our gameplan when it's fallen apart in a game.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 20 Jun 2013, 3:11 pm

I actually think that COS tried to change last seasons game plan too much. When you came to Welford Rd in the Autumn, you were still playing the high tempo, high offload game. the attack came in waves and we had no idea where to defend next.

Over the season though you seemed to try and move it wide much quicker and at times the wingers were easy to defend against.

finally that last match of your season, that attack plan seemed to revolve aroyund DannyC and no-one else. Once he was off their seemed to be no plan - but although we ran away with it in the end, for much of the game that was damned close.

by yappysnap Thu 20 Jun 2013, 5:53 pm

I meant more the play it from anywhere hail-mary approach that we kept trying (especially when we were under pressure), over the course of the season I lost count of the number of points we'd offered up due to trying to play out of our 22 and can't remember it working very often.

Spreading it wide was a very odd tactic when you look at our two first choice wings: Williams is a very good shoulder support runner but not a line breaker or particularly quick for a wing, he works on being in the right place at the right time to not have to beat people one on one. Ugo is getting on a little and while heroic under the high ball and in defence his pace and step are fading.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 20 Jun 2013, 6:31 pm

I think the rush to push the ball wide stemmed from an incoherent centre combination. A partnership needs to be built there if Quins are too progress.

by yappysnap Thu 20 Jun 2013, 6:49 pm

Very true we played at least 5 combos over the season which is just too much.

Looking forward to Casson/Lowe next season. Both the best in their positions to my mind, JTH and Hopper offer more X Factor but have bigger weaknesses.

by beshocked Fri 21 Jun 2013, 2:37 pm

yappysnap wrote:Peaking too soon in the season, not being mentally prepared to take the try bp's against the weaker sides and not changing our gameplan when it's fallen apart in a game.

Disagree with that. When exactly do you think Quins peaked? I don't your easy HC pool helped matters.

You took 5 try bonus points - that's joint 3rd with Sarries. Saints got 6 and Tigers 7.

I agree the latter part about not changing the gameplan but many teams are guilty of that.

Quins fans should be heartened for the amount of tries for and points for but points against was not great.

Your defense has slowly got more porous from 2010-11 onwards. You need to bring points conceded down.

by ChequeredJersey Fri 21 Jun 2013, 2:50 pm

This is true. Our scramble defense was key in 2011-12, and poor last season. Though I also agree with Yappy that we peaked, results wise, by Christmas. Gameplay wise it was hit and miss throughout the season

by logansrun38 Fri 21 Jun 2013, 4:28 pm

Gutless performances and a brain dead gameplan. And Quins didnt peak at all last season. Bar the LV and A league Quins were poor for all of it.

by logansrun38 Fri 21 Jun 2013, 4:30 pm

and some of the excuses on here are pathetic

by ChequeredJersey Fri 21 Jun 2013, 4:30 pm

Great, if we can get to 3rd being poor all season and fighting on 3 fronts (winning, admittedly the least important) one of them) then imagine how easy next season will be if we play well at any point at all

by ChequeredJersey Fri 21 Jun 2013, 4:32 pm

that's better...

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