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Mike Phillips has a dodgy knee....

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Post by RDW Sun 30 Jun 2013, 09:21

....and doesn't half hark on about it in his Mail on Sunday column!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2351627/MIKE-PHILLIPS-I-thought-knee-injury-game-ended-tour--Ill-ready-Sydney-decider-I-call.html

There's a few things that strikes me reading that column:

Considering he wrote that after the game yesterday he mentions hee haw about the game, how gutted the boys are and what they are going to do to turn things round, and instead just goes on and on about his dodgy knee, how he thinks he has been doing well all tour and how he disagrees with the coaches for not picking him!

He appears to have preferential treatment as he was told before the rest of the squad that he wasn't playing. What are the rest of the squad going to think about that when they read it in the morning? Or am I reading too much into that?

If he's not fit, he shouldn't play next week. I'm sorry Mike, you're a big game player but a knee is fairly important for scrum half play and we can't be having half fit players.



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Post by bsando Sun 30 Jun 2013, 09:43

Yeah not as interesting as Adam Jones column for BBC. Isn't The Mail a pretty trashy newspaper though? Might have just asked him to write a column entirely about his injury.

Youngs and Murray both good options so a half fit phillips seems a silly way to go if it comes to that.

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Post by maestegmafia Sun 30 Jun 2013, 09:59

Don't read the daily mail.

Phillips injured his knee in the HK match and has been monitored since.

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Post by Imperialbigdave Sun 30 Jun 2013, 11:12

WHy the heck did he play the first test if he had a dodgy knee? Especially when he was then found to be incredibly slow, likely because of said knee?
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Post by maestegmafia Sun 30 Jun 2013, 11:22

Imperialbigdave wrote:WHy the heck did he play the first test if he had a dodgy knee? Especially when he was then found to be incredibly slow, likely because of said knee?

Probably most likely because the highly qualified med staff thought he would be ok to play. He might well have been ok to play and aggravated it further in the first test...! Luckily Connar Murray looked a very good option yesterday should Phillips not be fit for the final test next weekend.

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Post by RubyGuby Sun 30 Jun 2013, 16:24

these posters give a new meaning to Knee-Jerks

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Post by IanBru Sun 30 Jun 2013, 16:35

Good grief RDW - when you said he goes on about his knee, I didn't expect the sheer glut of knee injury fetishism on display.

However, it is clear to me now that knee injuries are bad and that Mike Phillips wants to play next week.
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Post by doctor_grey Sun 30 Jun 2013, 16:40

maestegmafia wrote:
Imperialbigdave wrote:WHy the heck did he play the first test if he had a dodgy knee? Especially when he was then found to be incredibly slow, likely because of said knee?

Probably most likely because the highly qualified med staff thought he would be ok to play. He might well have been ok to play and aggravated it further in the first test...! Luckily Connar Murray looked a very good option yesterday should Phillips not be fit for the final test next weekend.
Being medically OK to play doesn't mean the player is able to perform near 100%.  As a broad generalisation, it means there is usually no significant danger of further injury.  Doesn't mean a player has returned to maximum possible performance levels.  Doesn't mean the player is able to run like Usain Bolt.  Many people get confused by this.

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Post by Guest Sun 30 Jun 2013, 16:44

But what is true is that James Robson would not let him play unless he was good and able to.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 30 Jun 2013, 16:45

Disagree.  This is a coach's decision.

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Post by RubyGuby Sun 30 Jun 2013, 16:52

thumbsup Knee Jerks, the lot of you

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Post by maestegmafia Sun 30 Jun 2013, 16:53

doctor_grey wrote:Disagree.  This is a coach's decision.

What is a coach's decision?

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Post by maestegmafia Sun 30 Jun 2013, 16:54

doctor_grey wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Imperialbigdave wrote:WHy the heck did he play the first test if he had a dodgy knee? Especially when he was then found to be incredibly slow, likely because of said knee?

Probably most likely because the highly qualified med staff thought he would be ok to play. He might well have been ok to play and aggravated it further in the first test...! Luckily Connar Murray looked a very good option yesterday should Phillips not be fit for the final test next weekend.
Being medically OK to play doesn't mean the player is able to perform near 100%.  As a broad generalisation, it means there is usually no significant danger of further injury.  Doesn't mean a player has returned to maximum possible performance levels.  Doesn't mean the player is able to run like Usain Bolt.  Many people get confused by this.

Yes I don't think that is too complex for anyone to understand...



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Post by RubyGuby Sun 30 Jun 2013, 16:58

thumbsup 
A coach's decision usually comes around after some reflective thinking and reasoning. During this period the coach might want to consult and listen to informed others. However the process is largely a cognitive process but on occasion can be influenced by ones emotion and intuition or hypothetical deductive reasoning as it is commonly known in the trade. The end  product of this "reasoning" however is ultimately what we call the coaches decision.

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Post by Guest Sun 30 Jun 2013, 17:15

doctor_grey wrote:Disagree.  This is a coach's decision.

Disagree that James Robson has the final say? There was an interview with him before the tour saying that he will and does overrule the coach and have the last say. Says he will never, ever let a player go out if he's not happy that he's fit to do so.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 30 Jun 2013, 17:26

Griff wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Disagree.  This is a coach's decision.

Disagree that James Robson has the final say? There was an interview with him before the tour saying that he will and does overrule the coach and have the last say. Says he will never, ever let a player go out if he's not happy that he's fit to do so.

I don't think you are really disagreeing. Robson is basically saying he won't let a coach put a player at risk.

Is Tommy Bowe's hand as good as new? It can't be, he's wearing a protective glove after all. The medical teams don't vouch for players being 100%, or at peak fitness. They clear players to take the field. It's up to the coach to decide whether a cleared player is capable of performing at his usual standard.

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Post by Seagultaf Sun 30 Jun 2013, 17:28

All coaches want their best players on the field, because even if they are carrying a slight knock they will probably be better than the next guy.

Phillips was struggling in the first test, the way he pulled up when Genia broke for Australia's first try clearly showed that. If he is not fully fit for Saturday give Murray a shot because Youngs looked to be struggling, admittedly behind a beaten pack.

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Post by RubyGuby Sun 30 Jun 2013, 17:42

thumbsup I think Robson had a hand in the decision for Bowe to play

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 30 Jun 2013, 18:18

RubyGuby wrote:thumbsup Knee Jerks, the lot of you
bollox. its about the balls!

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Post by RubyGuby Sun 30 Jun 2013, 18:20

thumbsup That would be Ballux then Grey

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 30 Jun 2013, 18:32

Rugby Fan wrote:
Griff wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Disagree.  This is a coach's decision.

Disagree that James Robson has the final say? There was an interview with him before the tour saying that he will and does overrule the coach and have the last say. Says he will never, ever let a player go out if he's not happy that he's fit to do so.

I don't think you are really  disagreeing. Robson is basically saying he won't let a coach put a player at risk.

Is Tommy Bowe's hand as good as new? It can't be, he's wearing a protective glove after all. The medical teams don't vouch for players being 100%, or at peak fitness. They clear players to take the field. It's up to the coach to decide whether a cleared player is capable of performing at his usual standard.
This is the way it works in every pro sport.  

Robson is a very good doc, and an excellent diagnostician.  I think he has a physio background as well.  He knows his boys.  But, once a player is cleared to play, it is up to the coach to evaluate the player to see if he is as effective as before. Just because a bone has healed (or in most sports cases has mostly healed) doesn't mean the body is back to peak condition.  And almost any injury suffered on a tour as short as a Lions tour will most likely not be completely healed.  Which is why I am opposed to bringing players who are carrying knocks beforehand.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 30 Jun 2013, 18:33

RubyGuby wrote:thumbsup I think Robson had a hand in the decision for Bowe to play
Or is it a hand job Ruby??????

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Post by Guest Sun 30 Jun 2013, 18:44

doctor_grey wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
Griff wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Disagree.  This is a coach's decision.

Disagree that James Robson has the final say? There was an interview with him before the tour saying that he will and does overrule the coach and have the last say. Says he will never, ever let a player go out if he's not happy that he's fit to do so.

I don't think you are really  disagreeing. Robson is basically saying he won't let a coach put a player at risk.

Is Tommy Bowe's hand as good as new? It can't be, he's wearing a protective glove after all. The medical teams don't vouch for players being 100%, or at peak fitness. They clear players to take the field. It's up to the coach to decide whether a cleared player is capable of performing at his usual standard.
This is the way it works in every pro sport.  

Robson is a very good doc, and an excellent diagnostician.  I think he has a physio background as well.  He knows his boys.  But, once a player is cleared to play, it is up to the coach to evaluate the player to see if he is as effective as before. Just because a bone has healed (or in most sports cases has mostly healed) doesn't mean the body is back to peak condition.  And almost any injury suffered on a tour as short as a Lions tour will most likely not be completely healed.  Which is why I am opposed to bringing players who are carrying knocks beforehand.

Cool, thanks Doc. My initial post was just a reaction to the insinuation that Phillips played the first test when unfit to play. I was pointing out that I didn't think Robson would allow that. However, he may have played when able but not 100% as happens often in sport.

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Post by RubyGuby Sun 30 Jun 2013, 18:51

doctor_grey wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:thumbsup I think Robson had a hand in the decision for Bowe to play
Or is it a hand job Ruby??????

That's enough of your fibulas - as we cant have this thread degenerating yet again

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 30 Jun 2013, 19:14

RubyGuby wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:thumbsup I think Robson had a hand in the decision for Bowe to play
Or is it a hand job Ruby??????

That's enough of your fibulas - as we cant have this thread degenerating yet again
And why the heck not?  We are all degenerating.  And once we have degenerated, what are we?  Degenerates!  

Griff,
No worries, you're welcome.  Happy to clarify.  I absolutely agree they way you described Phillips.  Healthy, but not recovered. And that applies to many of our travelling crew in the Lions.

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Post by RubyGuby Sun 30 Jun 2013, 19:16

thumbsup "Healthy, but not recovered" - Those were my exact words to Mrs Ruby this morning - And fair play she maintained a good level of Clinical Surveillance all afternoon

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Post by Guest Sun 30 Jun 2013, 19:17

I'm not overly a fan of hearing he had to have an injection to be honest. I doubt Bayonne are either, if he is forced to miss games he would be expected to play (I don't know if he is going to be granted a little rest after the tour).

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 30 Jun 2013, 19:27

Risca Rev wrote:I'm not overly a fan of hearing he had to have an injection to be honest. I doubt Bayonne are either, if he is forced to miss games he would be expected to play (I don't know if he is going to be granted a little rest after the tour).
If they don't grant him rest after the tour, they will be paying a lot more medical bills for him by Christmas.

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