Wallabies v British & Irish Lions: 3rd Test - pre match discussion and Poll

First topic message reminder :

Third test winners and score prediction?

20:00 AEST, 11:00 BST
Saturday, 6th July, 2013
ANZ Stadium, Sydney

Referee: Romain Poite

The weather is expected to be clear and sunny with temperatures ranging from 5-16° C at Homebush Bay.

So it will all come down to the final match with the series level at 1-a-piece.
Both sides are battered and bruised, many top players are missing... there's even a touch of controversy.
The final team announcements will be made later in the week... probably around Thursday morning AEST.

GunsGerms wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:I can't predict the score and it is almost impossible to predict team selection on this tour. I predicted correctly when I saw the team for the second test, a weak scrum and picking Youngs at scrum half, I also thought it crazy not picking your top try scorer. I would like Gray or Evans starting or on the bench, Hibbard at hooker and an all Welsh back row. Corbs must play if fit. BOD has put everything into it but he has not made a single break which is not good enough for an outside centre.

I hope Gatland picks the team and ignores Rowntree's selections, I don't want Croft near the team, Lydiate and Warburton (Tipuric to replace) were very good last week and would have been better with Faletau.

I hope Manu or Roberts will be fit to play and on the bench.

I feel the Lions can win the game with good team selection and not constantly kicking the ball away and badly.

Fairly one eyed posting. You criticise BOD but if Davies had not missed his tackle on AAC the Lions may have a series win now. Drico has hardly missed a tackle and none of the centres have made many breaks because the Lions tactics are to play crash ball after crash ball.

Picking Youngs was the right call because philips deserved to be dropped.

Tipuric probably deserves his chance now but Faletau and Lydiate have been hit and miss so not sure how you can be so convinced that they should be part of "an all Welsh backrow".

I agree the post looks one eyed as is your response, Faletau has been MOTM the last two games and Lydiate is getting better each game. I read the Daily Mail today reading Clive Woodwards article he had all Welsh backs except Sexton, Manu on the bench, he also would drop Parling as he is too lightweight for Gray/Evans and he kept Youngs at Hooker and Corbs as prop. His back row had Croft at 6 instead of Lydiate.not too far away from my suggestion and he used the same logic, a power pack. Clive is a smart guy.

VictorU3 wrote:If Gatland is in charge then the Aussies will win, he choked on Saturday as changes needed to be made and for some reason he didn't make them.

The Lions looked scared and I can't see them clicking before the next test.

Aus 2-1 series winners. (Again!)

If Gatland is in charge Hersh? Is somebody else in line? #hershexclusives

Risca Rev wrote:

VictorU3 wrote:If Gatland is in charge then the Aussies will win, he choked on Saturday as changes needed to be made and for some reason he didn't make them.

The Lions looked scared and I can't see them clicking before the next test.

Aus 2-1 series winners. (Again!)

If Gatland is in charge Hersh? Is somebody else in line? #hershexclusives

Reading this thread, apparently Rowntree is picking the team, so maybe Gatland is not in charge?

glamorganalun wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:I can't predict the score and it is almost impossible to predict team selection on this tour. I predicted correctly when I saw the team for the second test, a weak scrum and picking Youngs at scrum half, I also thought it crazy not picking your top try scorer. I would like Gray or Evans starting or on the bench, Hibbard at hooker and an all Welsh back row. Corbs must play if fit. BOD has put everything into it but he has not made a single break which is not good enough for an outside centre.

I hope Gatland picks the team and ignores Rowntree's selections, I don't want Croft near the team, Lydiate and Warburton (Tipuric to replace) were very good last week and would have been better with Faletau.

I hope Manu or Roberts will be fit to play and on the bench.

I feel the Lions can win the game with good team selection and not constantly kicking the ball away and badly.

Fairly one eyed posting. You criticise BOD but if Davies had not missed his tackle on AAC the Lions may have a series win now. Drico has hardly missed a tackle and none of the centres have made many breaks because the Lions tactics are to play crash ball after crash ball.

Picking Youngs was the right call because philips deserved to be dropped.

Tipuric probably deserves his chance now but Faletau and Lydiate have been hit and miss so not sure how you can be so convinced that they should be part of "an all Welsh backrow".

I agree the post looks one eyed as is your response, Faletau has been MOTM the last two games and Lydiate is getting better each game. I read the Daily Mail today reading Clive Woodwards article he had all Welsh backs except Sexton, Manu on the bench, he also would drop Parling as he is too lightweight for Gray/Evans and he kept Youngs at Hooker and Corbs as prop. His back row had Croft at 6 instead of Lydiate.not too far away from my suggestion and he used the same logic, a power pack. Clive is a smart guy.

I think faletau has been really unlucky not to get more game time - personally I think he's had a better tour than both Heaslip and Lydiate

Just my own opinion, but if Lydiate plays, we should expect to see Heaslip start. If Croft or SOB are at 6 we will see Faletau start.

glamorganalun wrote:

I agree the post looks one eyed as is your response, Faletau has been MOTM the last two games and Lydiate is getting better each game. I read the Daily Mail today reading Clive Woodwards article he had all Welsh backs except Sexton, Manu on the bench, he also would drop Parling as he is too lightweight for Gray/Evans and he kept Youngs at Hooker and Corbs as prop. His back row had Croft at 6 instead of Lydiate.not too far away from my suggestion and he used the same logic, a power pack. Clive is a smart guy.

Is this serious, Glam?  Woodward says?

Woodward says stuff the Aussies and don't give them the Lions tour no more.  Then the Wallabies almost stuff the Lions in the first two games, playing badly for them in the process.
Woodward says it's nonsense to give players some downtime in a warm ocean and they should be back in a hotel room, licking their mental wounds and preparing for next weekend.
Woodward says who he'd choose when he's had his chance and it didn't work out.

Don't mind him having a journalistic opinion... but God-like sermon-on-the-mount stuff of 'if Woodward says it it's true'??  Hmmmmmm

SecretFly wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:

I agree the post looks one eyed as is your response, Faletau has been MOTM the last two games and Lydiate is getting better each game. I read the Daily Mail today reading Clive Woodwards article he had all Welsh backs except Sexton, Manu on the bench, he also would drop Parling as he is too lightweight for Gray/Evans and he kept Youngs at Hooker and Corbs as prop. His back row had Croft at 6 instead of Lydiate.not too far away from my suggestion and he used the same logic, a power pack. Clive is a smart guy.

Is this serious, Glam? Woodward says?

Woodward says stuff the Aussies and don't give them the Lions tour no more. Then the Wallabies almost stuff the Lions in the first two games, playing badly for them in the process.
Woodward says it's nonsense to give players some downtime in a warm ocean and they should be back in a hotel room, licking their mental wounds and preparing for next weekend.
Woodward says who he'd choose when he's had his chance and it didn't work out.

Don't mind him having a journalistic opinion... but God-like sermon-on-the-mount stuff of 'if Woodward says it it's true'?? Hmmmmmm

I could have refer'd to certain Welsh news paper which follows the same team selection logic hence found it interesting Clive saying near enough the same from a proud Englishman. I posted my comments on another thread after we lost and I had a similar claim that my post was one eye'd, that came from an English poster. Lets go back, most voted for Aus to win the second test (65%) with the loss of POC and Corbs weakening the scrum. Picking Parling and MV were nowhere near the guys we lost, I believe there were better options but maybe they were not fit. I prefer Murray over Youngs he was very poor and Sexton suffered. Bowe had a good game but did not have the ball in hand but you don't drop your top try scorer. The big positive was Croft being replaced by Lydiate the problem is when he came on he is no 7 and our defence deteriorated. I agree Davies was ball watching for the try but it was poor composure earlier and a missed tackle, how far do you go back.

Horwill has been cleared.......again.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/horwill-cleared-to-play-lions-series-decider-20130702-2p8yj.html

 Good news for us, Icu.
I had a feeling with the delayed announcement last night that it might work in his favour.

Excellent result LB. The first thing I did when i woke up was to check what had happened. I've been on tenterhooks all morning.

Apparently we owe a big thanks to the NZ rugby lawyer Steve Cotterall? - so thanks cuzzy bro.

The Lions can win on Saturday but the general themes in the British Media and on this board seem to indicate an increased effort in biff, barge, "tough up front" , get the maul going etc.  etc. is the way they will win. There is hardly any mention of the lack of success in the Lions scoring any TRIES!!!. They are worth 5 points - 7 if you can convert them, and to get them you must attack the gain line!!!

IST TEST - 2 tries a piece  - Australia  miss 11 points kicking - Lions win by 2 points  - a fair result!!
2ND TEST - Australia scores a  try, Lions none and lose by 1 point - a fair result - would have been a travesty if it had gone any other way.

The Lions will lose the 3rd Test if -
1. They continue to infringe in the scrum - coming in at an slight angle and pushing up and late is illegal (an unsafe) and the referees are finally on to it with the Lions.. The Wallabies have their own illegal tactics but I don't think thay have been picked up yet - so why mention them!!
2. Keep throwing short in the lineouts - this is giving up, indicates you don't have a technique and reduces options.
3. Don't attack the gain line.
4. Play it territorial and wait for the penalities.

The Lions can win the 3rd Test if they let the potential of their magnificent backs be shown. Don't say the Lions back lack flair and creativiety (as per many comments on this board)   - they are chosen from the first fifteens of 4 Nations (with 4 times the population of Australia). I am sure there are 10 guys in the Lions squad who can run hard and smart and break the Aussie line.

A am backing Australia (where I come from) but I would really like to see the Lions backs to take it to Australia. Keep all that forewards tuff stuff for when you get back home.

Bring it on!!!

Welcome Mike...love a new poster with heaps of energy!

Hi Mike,

Good post mate.

I think this board lacks the credit that should be given to the Australian defence. They have limited the viable options to the Lions Halfbacks. Certainly so in the second test.

Hense the English news papers calling for mauls.

As you said, the lions need to cut the error count at the set piece. The forwards need to control the breakdown and prevent aggressive rucking that caused turnovers previously.

It's going to be a great finale...!

Can't wait.

Agree the Lions can win - I mean, the first 2 tests were so close who's to say they can't or won't? If there's a penalty in the last minute45m out for 1/2p chances are he will bang it over.

However I think the odds are against a Lions win this time around. It is conceivable that we have seen the best on offer from this Lions side - I said as much after the first test and that turned out to be correct based on their game in the second test. They do not have the flair anywhere in the backline which will trouble W - they had no line breaks in the game and did not look like scoring a try - not even come close to the line. Their best opportunity came after O'Connor booted the ball out on the full prior to the Liam Gill steal. But that came simply because of O'Connor's inexperience.

Gatland will continue to make changes - evidence that he knows he does not have the team performing as he would have expected. That will be unsettling for them. Deans on the other hand will go with the same team as per the second test which will give the side a lot of confidence. He knows Gatland will front up with the same game plan and so he knows what will be thrown at W.

Based on that, the danger for W will be 1) the Lions feeding off penalties/penalty kicks and 2) W mistakes (eg O'Connor has a shocker). If W can clean their error rate up substantially, continue a mass of posession (as Lions like to kick possession away hoping for W errors), then the extra week together as a side should see the backline continue to improve and likely get over for a couple of tries. W mistakes last time were most uncharacteristic - haven't seen Beale and O'Connor drop the pill like they did last game. Both will be better. O'Connor needs to ensure he does not overplay his hand - his job is to feed the talent around him. The final 20 minutes of the series will tell the story - my feeling is the W will be fresher and fitter than the Lions who will be out on their feet. W to finish strongly over the Lions as they have done all series.

Rob

Your point on consistency of selection is a good one. Though Gatland is forced into changes through injury, Warburton, as well as recovering more experienced players who were injured for the last match, Phillips and Corbisiero.

Phillips and Corbs will come back in to the side and will benefit the lions massively. Tipuric plays a different game to Warburton but is a massive player for the Lions.

Agree - some changes are due to injuries etc. I guess the reality is he can't/will not play the same side 2 weeks in a row and that will impact continuity. The individuals are all good players no doubt - but will represent a new combination in totality. I think Jamie Roberts would also be a big inclusion. Not convinced about BOD's form this series - a tour too far for him? With Warburton out, I guess will carry the captain's badge. The Lion's answer to Mike Brearley?

maestegmafia wrote:Hi Mike,

Good post mate.

I think this board lacks the credit that should be given to the Australian defence. They have limited the viable options to the Lions Halfbacks. Certainly so in the second test.

Hense the English news papers calling for mauls.

As you said, the lions need to cut the error count at the set piece. The forwards need to control the breakdown and prevent aggressive rucking that caused turnovers previously.

It's going to be a great finale...!

Can't wait.

British media. No need to have yet another dig at the English mate.

maestegmafia wrote: Tipuric plays a different game to Warburton but is a massive player for the Lions.

As he has shown very little in Lions red so far it is stretching it to say he is a massive player for the lions.

Could be a massive I player I would accept. I may disagree with that assessment, but would accept it is a reasonable one for a Tipuric fan to make. Personally I feel that SOB woudl make a much bigger impression in the 7 shirt come saturday.

Slight switch of focus here. Far too much talk about lions and not enough about he aussies. My views are as follows:

- Lealifano looks the real deal at 12 and if he lasts the 80 his kicking game will be a big factor. 1/2p will help keep lions in game but lealifano + tries is better.
- Aussie back 3 are lethal and tomane esp looked very dangerous. I'm expecting them to be even more involved on sat.
- aussie scrum and lineout has been v good. lions really missing healy, jenkins and poc. australia only need parity here to have a chance to win.
- main weakness is JOC at 10 but he is growing in confidence and they vary first receiver between beale, joc and lealifano, which takes some pressure off him.

I'm beginning to think he only way lions can win this is through brute force with roberts, sob, north, phillips trying to smash their way past the gain line, given lack of guile in their play to date. I worry though that australia look better conditioned and can absorb it, before turning the lions over in the last 10.

This will go to final 5 mins but wee 1/2p could still be the hero!

Agree with Rob on this one. For JOC it'll be 3rd time lucky and true Deans has remained faithful on that count. The dropsies were almost as bad as the Auckland Blues average games so even though Oz sure are doing a hek of a lot wrong and so much has gone against them the Lions just havnt capitalised at all.

Ive only seen Tipuric in the 6N but he was fantastic and should be there this week. Agree again with Rob that Gatland is desperate in his selections and new blood looks the only answer.

The Lions continuous kicking the ball into nowhere all match was just terrible and I can't believe that was pat of any gameplan.

As per the last 10 minutes momentum is now with Ozzie and that should continue into the weekend where they just need things to go 'ok' to win this.

Taylorman wrote:

The Lions continuous kicking the ball into nowhere all match was just terrible and I can't believe that was pat of any gameplan.

The number of times I hear this...both at International level and club/Provincial level - well, gotta say it frustrates the hell out of me.

I can believe it was part of a gameplan because it was part of a gameplan in that the coaches were there watching it happen (all match).  

They didn't go to the toilet or go away to any pub down the street.  They were watching, with their stat laptops around them.  They had their breaks in play, they had their methods of getting instructions onto the field, they were getting those instructions onto the field, they had their halftime break to read the riot act and they had another half of a game to keep pouring messages and instructions onto the field if they continued to be flabbergasted by the on-field game management.

A team is coached - before and through a game.  Players can make individual errors on a field that coaches can't be blamed for, yes.... but a team doesn't continue to make a massive tactical error (all match) that hasn't been coached to do so... or that has been told to stop it.

Yeah its frustrating alright. Ive seen it in our sides as well and sometimes its down to poor execution. Our second test against France we kicked all day but the quality was (surprisngly) superb for once. Box kicks hitting the mark, kicks down the line rolling into touch a yard out from the line etc.

So sometimes it good to see our side march 70 yards down the field after one kick when it would normally take 8 or 9 bruised and battered bodies and a couple of minutes to get the same.

so be interesting what the plan is this week.

SecretFly wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

The Lions continuous kicking the ball into nowhere all match was just terrible and I can't believe that was pat of any gameplan.

The number of times I hear this...both at International level and club/Provincial level - well, gotta say it frustrates the hell out of me.

I can believe it was part of a gameplan because it was part of a gameplan in that the coaches were there watching it happen (all match).  

They didn't go to the toilet or go away to any pub down the street.  They were watching, with their stat laptops around them.  They had their breaks in play, they had their methods of getting instructions onto the field, they were getting those instructions onto the field, they had their halftime break to read the riot act and they had another half of a game to keep pouring messages and instructions onto the field if they continued to be flabbergasted by the on-field game management.

A team is coached - before and through a game.  Players can make individual errors on a field that coaches can't be blamed for, yes.... but a team doesn't continue to make a massive tactical error (all match) that hasn't been coached to do so... or that has been told to stop it.

You're spot on Secretfly but Gatland will never admit he's wrong.

 Nice post Mervyn

Before the tour began, there were posters predicting that the Lions, playing as Wales do, would fall short against the Wallabies, as Wales have done. I disagreed with those posters, but I'm afraid I can see those posters being proved right.

The power game is all well and good, but if the opposition's defence can stand up to it, you're sunk.

If they (Lions) played like Wales they'd have a chance, Luckless.  They're not playing like Wales.  They're playing like Kidney's Ireland.  They're not even using continuity between midweek game style and this so nervous containment game they're playing against Australia.  There is no link between the expression shown in mid-week games (against admitted less resolute teams than the Aussies!..but also not first teamer Lions playing it) and that displayed by players during the tests.  Nerves and fear of losing seems to be killing any real aggressive attack patterns.

Third game is luckily the last one and there is nothing left to protect.  They have to play now, like Australia had to try to play in the 2nd.  That hopefully might loosen the game up.

Fly, I've seen Wales play this kind of rugby plenty of times under Gatland. When it brings victory, no one complains.

I've seen it played moreso under Kidney.  When it won or lost, we complained

 "The Lions need to play like Wales not England" - says Jeremy Guscott in yesterdays Rugby Paper. Is Gatland being stifled by the Lions concept and is he stuck in a half way house? And I don't mean The Halfway Inn in Glynneath

Let's look at Wales's last game (ignoring the consecutive pig's ears against Japan). Wales played the usual physical game - to a high level of intensity - and yet were only 9 - 3 up at half time. It was only because their physicality took its toll on England that the spaces appeared and tries could be scored. (Having Ken Owens and Justin Tipuric on the field helped, too.) But when the physical game doesn't work, the opposition doesn't tire and the gaps don't appear.

Against a well-drilled defence, you need more than power.

As I have said a few times, we are trying to play like Wales (Gatlandball) but have selected the wrong personnel to do it.

It is clear the whole gameplan is based around the big inside centre (usually Roberts) crashing it up over the gainline and then playing off of that. No Roberts and no plan B has meant trying to play plan A without the tools to make it work. We are no in the situation where we have to go for it, and that means embracing plan A and putting out the biggest side with the strongest carriers we have got in order to give ourselves a chance.

I still however lament the decision not to take a footballing 12 in the initial tour party. The simple decision to include Matt Scott would have meant we had a plan B option if required, and would also have meant that Hogg would not have had to pressed into service at 12 enabling him to mount a proper challenge for the test 15 jersey. As it is, the fact that he has been a utility back, and that Kearney was injured has meant that Halfpenny has had no pressure on him for the shirt.

RubyGuby wrote: "The Lions need to play like Wales not England" - says Jeremy Guscott in yesterdays Rugby Paper. Is Gatland being stifled by the Lions concept and is he stuck in a half way house? And I don't mean The Halfway Inn in Glynneath

That's quite funny.  The concept that depending where you live, you see a blatant carbon copy of your own Nation's International style being played out by the Lions...in the one game.

Guscott sees England style
I see Ireland style
Luckless sees Welsh style.

And none of us is happy about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So it's Scottish style for the final game???  Oops, we didn't bring enough of them lads....

I know it won't happen - but would love to see 36 given a shot at 12 here. He's big enough to "bosh it up" Gatland's way, but also has a great rugby brain and could unlock the Aussie defence using a bit of guile too.

nobbled wrote:I know it won't happen - but would love to see 36 given a shot at 12 here. He's big enough to "bosh it up" Gatland's way, but also has a great rugby brain and could unlock the Aussie defence using a bit of guile too.

15. Hogg
14. Cuthbert
13. Tuilagi
12. Twelvetrees
11. North
10. Farrell
9. Youngs

... to get the job done!  

Maybe people should wait for the teams before they vote?

SecretFly wrote:

RubyGuby wrote: "The Lions need to play like Wales not England" - says Jeremy Guscott in yesterdays Rugby Paper. Is Gatland being stifled by the Lions concept and is he stuck in a half way house? And I don't mean The Halfway Inn in Glynneath

That's quite funny.  The concept that depending where you live, you see a blatant carbon copy of your own Nation's International style being played out by the Lions...in the one game.

Guscott sees England style
I see Ireland style
Luckless sees Welsh style.

And none of us is happy about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So it's Scottish style for the final game???  Oops, we didn't bring enough of them lads....

Lets just call it a northern hemisphere style.

SecretFly wrote:

RubyGuby wrote: "The Lions need to play like Wales not England" - says Jeremy Guscott in yesterdays Rugby Paper. Is Gatland being stifled by the Lions concept and is he stuck in a half way house? And I don't mean The Halfway Inn in Glynneath

That's quite funny.  The concept that depending where you live, you see a blatant carbon copy of your own Nation's International style being played out by the Lions...in the one game.

Guscott sees England style
I see Ireland style
Luckless sees Welsh style.

And none of us is happy about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So it's Scottish style for the final game???  Oops, we didn't bring enough of them lads....

everyone is wrong. Due to the defence coach they are playing like Saracens - so we need to draft Mako, Stevens, Farrell and Barritt into the starting lineup.


Seemples

LondonTiger wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

RubyGuby wrote: "The Lions need to play like Wales not England" - says Jeremy Guscott in yesterdays Rugby Paper. Is Gatland being stifled by the Lions concept and is he stuck in a half way house? And I don't mean The Halfway Inn in Glynneath

That's quite funny.  The concept that depending where you live, you see a blatant carbon copy of your own Nation's International style being played out by the Lions...in the one game.

Guscott sees England style
I see Ireland style
Luckless sees Welsh style.

And none of us is happy about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So it's Scottish style for the final game???  Oops, we didn't bring enough of them lads....

everyone is wrong. Due to the defence coach they are playing like Saracens - so we need to draft Mako, Stevens, Farrell and Barritt into the starting lineup.


Seemples

They can't be playing like Saracens, as apparently Rowntree is picking the team and deciding the tic-tacs!  

It is a lot like Sarries and England if you ask me. Very narrow attack, bash bash bash. Fish for penalties, aim for set piece dominance.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Let's look at Wales's last game (ignoring the consecutive pig's ears against Japan). Wales played the usual physical game - to a high level of intensity - and yet were only 9 - 3 up at half time. It was only because their physicality took its toll on England that the spaces appeared and tries could be scored. (Having Ken Owens and Justin Tipuric on the field helped, too.) But when the physical game doesn't work, the opposition doesn't tire and the gaps don't appear.

Against a well-drilled defence, you need more than power.

That's why I suggested a while back that you can't just rely on two big physical hard running, strike running wings.... and have as a replacement for them one other big physical wing waiting on the bench.  

You need something with more tight-turning angle zip to counter the Wallaby preparedness for the physical assault.  Cuthbert, North and Bowe are fine for what they do.  None of them are doing much of it...because Wallabies have been preparing for it for months.  I suggest one bulk wing and something more subtle in the guise of a Wade or Zebo....to give tighter angle options and using them as perhaps cheeky line breakers even more than out and out scorers.  
The Wallaby line isn't being breached often enough and wing bulk up till now hasn't been an effective Lions tool.

Good article by Will Greenwood in the Telegraph today about the difference it has made to the Lions to be without Roberts and also the difference between playing inside and outside centre. It does kind of beg the question as to why, if the role of inside centre is so important to the way Gatland likes to play, did he only select one inside centre for the tour?

So what you're saying, Fly, is that there's more than one way to crack a Wallaby's nuts.

I also feel concerned about the seeming pressure to pick Roberts for 12 (if fit). I just hope - if he is picked - that he proves me wrong.

Jelly
It can be argued that Jonathan Davies has played very well at 12 down at the Scarlets in the past with Regan King outside him, and the creative coach Nigel Davies directing play. It was Gatland who selected at 13 for Wales with a different style of play entirely.

It also can be argued that the current Lions play is the reverse of traditional/modern rugby where you have the creative centre inside and the fast mobile but big unit on the outside. In effect he almost plays left-right with two heavy centres, first receiver being the 12 who sucks in 2-3 opponents then recycles leaving holes for the 13 to create the opportunities for the even bigger battering ram wings and a safe FB in the background.

Its depressingly called GatlandBall Lite or as the Aussies are mockingly calling it WarrenBall

Difficult to make a prediction until the teams are announced - huge selection calls for Gatland to make here, and a lot of work to do in a week.

Needs to fix the lineout, fix the scrum and teach the backs a few moves that will do more than repeatedly fall short of the advantage line or throw the ball to the opposition.

On the plus side the Lions lost by 1 point - a fact which seems to be overlooked by many on here, the other Lions defeat being by 2 points. The defence is hugely competitive and difficult to break down. Had the set piece worked as it should, regardless of the predictable and inept back play, we'd probably have sneaked the series already.

Fix the scrum and lineout Warren! Poite is unlikely to be as generous as Joubert when it comes to Vunipola's "angular" scrummaging style, and if Parling isn't going to get the lineout functioning, then let's not hand the Aussies a few stones advantage in the boiler room.

 The scrum and line out should be relatively easy to fix - He then has to get the balance of the back row right - After that he needs to pick a dynamic and destructive backline and most importantly he has to "tweak" the game plan a little. We have the personnel to win

SecretFly wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Let's look at Wales's last game (ignoring the consecutive pig's ears against Japan). Wales played the usual physical game - to a high level of intensity - and yet were only 9 - 3 up at half time. It was only because their physicality took its toll on England that the spaces appeared and tries could be scored. (Having Ken Owens and Justin Tipuric on the field helped, too.) But when the physical game doesn't work, the opposition doesn't tire and the gaps don't appear.

Against a well-drilled defence, you need more than power.

That's why I suggested a while back that you can't just rely on two big physical hard running, strike running wings.... and have as a replacement for them one other big phyical wing waiting on the bench.  

You need something with more tight-turning angle zip to counter the Wallaby preparedness for the physical assault.  Cuthbert, North and Bowe are fine for what they do.  None of them are doing much of it...because Wallabies have been preparing for it for months.  I suggest one bulk wing and something more subtle in the guise of a Wade or Zebo....to give tigher angle options and using them as perhaps cheeky line breakers even more than out and out scorers.  
The Wallaby line isn't being breached often enough and wing bulk up till now hasn't been an effective Lions tool.

Have you been watching the same games as me?We could have had Cyril Smith on one wing and a grand piano on the other as they never get a pass anyway!The lack of ball rather than the lack of guile is the telling factor methinks.

Ozzy3213 wrote:As I have said a few times, we are trying to play like Wales (Gatlandball) but have selected the wrong personnel to do it.  

It is clear the whole gameplan is based around the big inside centre (usually Roberts) crashing it up over the gainline and then playing off of that.  No Roberts and no plan B has meant trying to play plan A without the tools to make it work.  We are no in the situation where we have to go for it, and that means embracing plan A and putting out the biggest side with the strongest carriers we have got in order to give ourselves a chance.

I still however lament the decision not to take a footballing 12 in the initial tour party.  The simple decision to include Matt Scott would have meant we had a plan B option if required, and would also have meant that Hogg would not have had to pressed into service at 12 enabling him to mount a proper challenge for the test 15 jersey.  As it is, the fact that he has been a utility back, and that Kearney was injured has meant that Halfpenny has had no pressure on him for the shirt.  

I don't think you are right about Wales tactics.

Roberts is used as a decoy more often than not and forwards are used for hard yards. Which is what we are doing.

In the first test we didnt contest the breakdown after we were penalised for it. In the second test we missed ball carriers in POC mainly but we contest breakdowns really well. Until Warburton went off. We couldn't build phases and make the gaps in the Aussie defence in attack.

RubyGuby wrote: The scrum and line out should be relatively easy to fix - He then has to get the balance of the back row right - After that he needs to pick a dynamic and destructive backline and most importantly he has to "tweak" the game plan a little. We have the personnel to win

So basically just change and improve everything in a week.

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Have you been watching the same games as me?We could have had Cyril Smith on one wing and a grand piano on the other as they never get a pass anyway!The lack of ball rather than the lack of guile is the telling factor methinks.

Guile looks for ball. It doesn't wait for the 'gameplan' to come to it. Unless of course no ball (kicked away) was the gameplan guile? I stand by every word I say Taff, because yeah, I watched the same game as you and no point in having big wings if the biggest cheer of the night is for a wing carrying a player downfield rather than a ball.

SecretFly wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Have you been watching the same games as me?We could have had Cyril Smith on one wing and a grand piano on the other as they never get a pass anyway!The lack of ball rather than the lack of guile is the telling factor methinks.

Guile looks for ball.  It doesn't wait for the 'gameplan' to come to it.  Unless of course no ball (kicked away) was the gameplan guile?  I stand by every word I say Taff, because yeah, I watched the same game as you and no point in having big wings if the biggest cheer of the night is for a wing carrying a player downfield rather than a ball.  

You have to give credit to the Aussie defence too though.

They were brilliant at limiting the options for Youngs and Sexton last weekend.