Did Gatland anticipate the ful ramifications of dropping BOD?

It was always going to be a huge decision given BODs stature in the game but even Im a little shocked at the scale of the outcry. There are messages all over the place from Irish withdrawing their support for the Lions, even sportsmen and figures outside of rugby are getting in on it. Socia media sites are awash with it. I get the feeling even if the Lions win the series Gatand has committed an unforgiveable sin. And if they lose! Heaven help us. Theirs big decisions and then there is asking for trouble! Im not sure Gatland realised the scale of this decision. Even opting for BOD on the bench and a late cameo might have taken the sting out it but hes really setting himself up for a fall here!

Of course Gatland didn't - nor would he give it a second thought.

In a single minded person is there enough room for more than one thought anyway?

You arent going to please everyone in selecting a team but I do feel this last teamsheet has now caused an awful lot of division, bitterness and controversy amongst the fans. It could have been avoided a whole lot more by having BOD even on the bench. I hope it doesnt seep into the team now but I think Gatland has errerd. Even if the team wins and his centre pairing is justified, I think having BOD on the bench would have made a tough decision easier to take ather than causing a whole meltdown. BOD on the bench is not going to be unduly negative in any case.

I doubt he considered it. That there has been such a public outrage and 'ramifications' is rather a sad indictment of society today - rather than get behind those that have been picked and who may be a bit nervous and under pressure we have fans, pundits and, even worse, former Lions players who know how much pressure the chosen team will be under, going on the offensive and have started slating the selections and slating the Lions concept. I feel genuinely embarrassed for those pundits and their lack of sportsmanship - especially the former Lions who apparently have this inner bond to other Lions much like a brotherhood - that's out the window now. Complain after the tournament, but at least support the current guys and give them your support. It's the least they would have expected as players and Lions themselves.

The issue isn't dropping BOD  for a better player that would be fine, it is the unfit players and also JD2 is not a defense organisor.  Lets see how defense goes on saturday.

You cant say he is only the 4th best centre on tour which is what is being said.

Also it shows Gats has no plan be as MT isn't going to bring anything different

OMG who cares he is dropped he isn't coming back get over ti John Davies is playing better and he isn't. Bluddy hell like

Sad Irish people. Go take a look at how he played against Italy and ask yourself if that form merits his inclusion.

O'Driscoll no longer offers the attacking threat at international level that he did about 5 years ago and therefore does not deserve a place in the team.

O'Driscoll was never the rugby genius that some fans like to portray him as. He relied on his speed off the mark to break defences. He has lost that explosiveness and is now ineffective.

He had a similar skill set to Christian Cullen who also looked half his former self once he lost his pace.

Gatland has made the right call.

Scrumdown wrote:O'Driscoll no longer offers the attacking threat at international level that he did about 5 years ago and therefore does not deserve a place in the team.

O'Driscoll was never the rugby genius that some fans like to portray him as. He relied on his speed off the mark to break defences.  He has lost that explosiveness and is now ineffective.

He had a similar skill set to Christian Cullen who also looked half his former self once he lost his pace.

Gatland has made the right call.

Get ready for the Irish attack mate

Jhamer25 wrote:OMG who cares he is dropped he isn't coming back get over ti John Davies is playing better and he isn't. Bluddy hell like

No JD2 isnt playing better.

Nobody probably expected BOD to last all three games but he got through the first two in one piece.

Gatland wants to win the test. He has chosen a team he believes can do it. Let's be honest, this series has been a lot closer than most people anticipated. We could have lost the first test but for a missed kick. We could have won the second test but for a missed kick. People's reaction to BOD being dropped is ridiculously OTT. This is  message board land at its worst. Disagree with and discuss the selection by all means but the vitriol and accusations against Gatland are just pathetic.

Griff wrote:I doubt he considered it. That there has been such a public outrage and 'ramifications' is rather a sad indictment of society today -  rather than get behind those that have been picked and who may be a bit nervous and under pressure we have fans, pundits and, even worse, former Lions players who know how much pressure the chosen team will be under, going on the offensive and have started slating the selections and slating the Lions concept. I feel genuinely embarrassed for those pundits and their lack of sportsmanship - especially the former Lions who apparently have this inner bond to other Lions much like a brotherhood - that's out the window now. Complain after the tournament, but at least support the current guys and give them your support. It's the least they would have expected as players and Lions themselves.

Maybe it's more a sad indictment of Gatlands selection voiced by fans who truly love the Lions, including ex international and Lions players, understand the Lions ethos, and have no desire to see that same ethos crumble away under the dictate of self-serving ambition.

I'm still a Lions fan. Always will be, and I will be cheering them on at the weekend. Doesn't mean I have to support Gatland though, and what he's doing to the B&I Lions, does it?

Managing the Lions isnt just about picking 15 names on a sheet. You have to assess the impact of your decisions though. I dont have any problem with Gatland picking who he wants or dropping BOD if he feels its for the best but I question if he fully comprehends the impact it has on fans, media, the other squad players etc which all can have an impact. If he had even just put BOD on the bench he could have avoided WW3 but he really generated a storm where one isnt needed and could have been managed better. I havent been impressed with Gatlands tour to be honest, I think the Lions have misfired against an Australia team that by SH standards is going to be about as beatable as we could hope. We fluked the first test really but Warratahs game aside we havent looked good and I dont think Gatland has handled the bringng the fans, media and nations together particularly well. He doesnt lack balls though as I dont envy his position if a Welsh strong team lose the last test.

Scrumdown wrote:O'Driscoll no longer offers the attacking threat at international level that he did about 5 years ago and therefore does not deserve a place in the team.

O'Driscoll was never the rugby genius that some fans like to portray him as. He relied on his speed off the mark to break defences.  He has lost that explosiveness and is now ineffective.

He had a similar skill set to Christian Cullen who also looked half his former self once he lost his pace.

Gatland has made the right call.

Against wales he was rubbish in attack. And i guess that as he has done well in defense is not good enough for the last test as it has been fod people in the first two tests.

If tactics haven't changed we are hoping for as good a defense or better with more one off attacks. If we give Aus 65% again will the lions win

The team is always bigger than 1 man even if that 1 man is something of a National legend.
BOD has been 1 of the best centres in world rugby in the past but this is the present, it was clearly visible he had lost his speed when Gareth Maule turned him inside out to score against Leinster last season. Maule is not known for either his speed or his attacking prowess he is a solid defensive centre.
Roberts is clearly Gatlands 1st choice at centre either inside or outside and Davies has the most experience of playing alongside Roberts, that could prove cruciall on Saturday or it could backfire, either way we have a coach with the courage to make the tough decisions regardles of how unpopular they are.

C'mon the Lions its all to play for.

Well I think it has given menace to the Irish stragglers left anyway.  

They'll be in brooding mood and I hope it influences them positively to crush all before them.  Call the bluff to this idea that O'Driscoll was the weak connection and challenge these slick Welsh boys to prove it or more to the point, their boss. If they and he want to run it then give Sexton the service he needs to run it (Phillips job - no excuses)  Fast accurate delivery for the duration.  Then let's see those creative centres and backs actually look for work and play it hard.

Let's see what they were holding back that couldn't have been equally delivered for the two previous matches.

Let's see where this more balanced side leads...and I hope to God the Irish guys sweat blood and then dedicate the victory to their man, O'Driscoll - publically, loudly.

Let's see where the fire is in the belly of this side to go for Australia with more class than the previous two games.

SecretFly wrote:Well I think it has given menace to the Irish stragglers left anyway.  

They'll be in brooding mood and I hope it influences them positively to crush all before them.  Call the bluff to this idea that O'Driscoll was the weak connection and challenge these slick Welsh boys to prove it or more to the point, their boss.  If they and he want to run it then give Sexton the service he needs to run it (Phillips job - no excuses)  Fast accurate delivery for the duration.  Then let's see those creative centres and backs actually look for work and play it hard.

Let's see what they were holding back that couldn't have been equally delivered for the two previous matches.

Let's see where this more balanced side leads...and I hope to God the Irish guys sweat blood and then dedicate the victory to their man, O'Driscoll - publically, loudly.

Let's see where the fire is in the belly of this side to go for Australia with more class than the previous two games.

The old jumpers for goalposts argument fly...you cant beat it

SecretFly wrote:Well I think it has given menace to the Irish stragglers left anyway.  

They'll be in brooding mood and I hope it influences them positively to crush all before them.  Call the bluff to this idea that O'Driscoll was the weak connection and challenge these slick Welsh boys to prove it or more to the point, their boss.  If they and he want to run it then give Sexton the service he needs to run it (Phillips job - no excuses)  Fast accurate delivery for the duration.  Then let's see those creative centres and backs actually look for work and play it hard.

Let's see what they were holding back that couldn't have been equally delivered for the two previous matches.

Let's see where this more balanced side leads...and I hope to God the Irish guys sweat blood and then dedicate the victory to their man, O'Driscoll - publically, loudly.

Let's see where the fire is in the belly of this side to go for Australia with more class than the previous two games.

If the Lions win, I would hope the Irish would dedicate it to the tour captain more. The one who has actually had a third test cruelly taken away from him.

The Irish as a whole wont give a flying f...

Risca Rev wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Well I think it has given menace to the Irish stragglers left anyway.  

They'll be in brooding mood and I hope it influences them positively to crush all before them.  Call the bluff to this idea that O'Driscoll was the weak connection and challenge these slick Welsh boys to prove it or more to the point, their boss.  If they and he want to run it then give Sexton the service he needs to run it (Phillips job - no excuses)  Fast accurate delivery for the duration.  Then let's see those creative centres and backs actually look for work and play it hard.

Let's see what they were holding back that couldn't have been equally delivered for the two previous matches.

Let's see where this more balanced side leads...and I hope to God the Irish guys sweat blood and then dedicate the victory to their man, O'Driscoll - publically, loudly.

Let's see where the fire is in the belly of this side to go for Australia with more class than the previous two games.

If the Lions win, I would hope the Irish would dedicate it to the tour captain more. The one who has actually had a third test cruelly taken away from him.

As has O'Driscoll.  

Nope.  My whole emphasis is they play hard, demand what is promised by their teammates and publically dedicate their contribution to it to O'Driscoll's final tour.  The Welsh contingent and Gatland will undoubtedly do the Warburton stuff.

No he hasn't. You could make a case for BOD, as much as anybody could make a case for JD2. That's not cruel. Injury is cruel. Selection isn't.

Maybe the Irish should concentrate on dedicating it to POC, as that's cruel luck.

Risca Rev wrote:No he hasn't. You could make a case for BOD, as much as anybody could make a case for JD2. That's not cruel. Injury is cruel. Selection isn't.

Maybe the Irish should concentrate on dedicating it to POC, as that's cruel luck.

You believe what you believe, and think what you choose to think, Risca.  That's your right.  Mine is to choose how I think.  I consider it an insult to a player who played both tests better than JD2...and was about to end a long career (helping) the Lions win, not being a passenger.

You read it your way, we'll read it ours.  You're Welsh, you decide who you'd like the Welsh players to dedicate the victory (if it comes) to.  I'm Irish and I say our guys should offer it to O'Driscoll.  Publically.  This isn't all for one anymore.

This is Gatland mind games at its absolute best.

Everyone talking BOD, players quietly and unassumingly preparing to be victorious with everyone expecting them to lose, exactly what they want.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:This is Gatland mind games at its absolute best.

Everyone talking BOD, players quietly and unassumingly preparing to be victorious with everyone expecting them to lose, exactly what they want.

Yeah, I knew the ....taking the pressure off the players... line would get an outing before the weekend.

No, the pressure is still on. Let's see what this team has. No more promising. Prove it, Gatland. Prove this is the real deal.

Fly, Do you think that Brian O'Driscoll is fully fit?

Just something that went through my mind last weekend.

Nobody is undroppable.

Steve Hansen dropped Shane Williams.

Shane came back..

So did Hansen ...

The reaction from Irish fans, myself included, has been one of hurt. ODriscoll has been such a special player for so long for Ireland, and has given body and soul to the Lions on 4 tours. This is his reward from Gatland, that hurts.

The reaction from the vast majority of rugby pundits and journo's has been confusion. The concept of team selection is to pick the best combination of players to achieve a win. This selection doesn't appear to do this for many reasons. I really like JD, I hope he has a stormer, but i cannot find a valid reason for his selection of Bods, I've yet to hear one outside of Wales. Same goes for Lydiate, Hibbard and to a lesser extent Falauta and Phillips. Simple question, if they weren't Welsh would they be playing? The answer should of course be yes, unfortunately most of us arent too sure any more.

(Welsh fans are of course hurt at the way the rest of the Lions fans are throwing muck at Gatland regarding these selections, and of course by association some of it is hitting the Welsh players. This is obviously unfair as they in no way shape or form can be blamed for being picked. This is hurt and annoyance by Welsh fans is very understandable)

Yes the reaction has been extreme, that's because the selection is extreme.

Some things never change.

The irish always blame the coach for their players consistent failure at international level.

Warren Gatland, Eddie O'Sullivan, Declan Kidney, Warren Gatland (again).  

There was uproar from many including Keith Wood (again) when Gatland left Rory Best out of the original squad yet his performances on the tour proved Gatland absolutely right.  He is not international class. Neither is the 34 year old O'Driscoll.

Sexton also has it all to prove at international level.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Fly, Do you think that Brian O'Driscoll is fully fit?

Just something that went through my mind last weekend.

He's never fully fit.  We all know that.  He always has niggles and he's always a step off the pace if it gets too hot these days.

Not the issue.  He's an old guy who plays through niggles and he has enough pace in wise places to make it count in an instant if he sees a break or can slot in another player into a tight angle bypass of an opposing defensive line.

He wasn't given that gameplan to work with over the two tests but was a better centre than the one who took his spot (and certainly by far a better defensive centre than the one who has taken his spot).

Gatland can dress it up any way he likes.  Now is the time to prove his young (fit) and talented players were being hampered by BOD.

I say it's a con, others will disagree.  I'm not here to agree I'm here to call it as I see it.

Let's see the gameplan that needed BOD dropped and a player who played in both tests too, and performed less effectively, adopted.  Let's see this final gameplan when all players look to do as much work as O'Driscoll has for a change because certainly in the two tests to date, they've all been sub-standard.

He owes BOD nothing! neither does he really have to explain his decision if he didn't want to.

I imagine his head will hit the pillow tonight and he will nod off like a baby not having a care in the world.

I find the whole out cry embarrassing,how is BOD a Lions legend? just because you have done it before don't make you a legend.
He never won a series, only series winners should be refereed to as legends

Scrumdown wrote:Some things never change.

The irish always blame the coach for their players consistent failure at international level.

Warren Gatland, Eddie O'Sullivan, Declan Kidney, Warren Gatland (again).  

There was uproar from many including Keith Wood (again) when Gatland left Rory Best out of the original squad yet his performances on the tour proved Gatland absolutely right.  He is not international class. Neither is the 34 year old O'Driscoll.

Sexton also has it all to prove at international level.

And you'll always be Scrumdown. No excuses Scrum. Phillips better do his job. Promises. Promises. Let's see the big backs earn their call ups this time.

Gatland, and the management team, couldn't give a  about social media. Sure, they thought about the balance of the side but they've picked, what they believe, will win the test. Be it dropping Bod, Youngs ( which IS disappointing).
The justice for____ is level with the schardenfruade over this issue on fbok, here, twitter etc.

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:He owes BOD nothing! neither does he really have to explain his decision if he didn't want to.

I imagine his head will hit the pillow tonight and he will nod off like a baby not having a care in the world.

I find the whole out cry embarrassing,how is BOD a Lions legend? just because you have done it before don't make you a legend.
He never won a series, only series winners should be refereed to as legends  

.... Less talk more rugby. Where is it? Give me the rugby, Dave! Quit bluffing

Thanks Fly for considering the question, I think that Gatland is trying to restrict Australia to the centre of the field and BOD gives O'Connor incentive to go wide. I should also state that I am no more privvy to anything than you are

But I am looking forward to seeing how your flanker goes on Saturday night.

I think anyone who thinks Gatland will be sleeping easy is kidding themselves. In a game like this Gatland will second guessing every decision he makes. Its only natural. He will only be sleeping easy when the series is won.

SecretFly wrote:

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:He owes BOD nothing! neither does he really have to explain his decision if he didn't want to.

I imagine his head will hit the pillow tonight and he will nod off like a baby not having a care in the world.

I find the whole out cry embarrassing,how is BOD a Lions legend? just because you have done it before don't make you a legend.
He never won a series, only series winners should be refereed to as legends  

.... Less talk more rugby.  Where is it?  Give me the rugby, Dave!  Quit bluffing

Rugby? iam talking rugby

That's the issue. The Lions tests so far is all talk, despite the 6N winning spine very prominent in both games.
I'll be interested in seeing some rugby in the last game, if it's not too much trouble, from Gatland and his coaches.

Why was T1000's "hard done-by" article locked? Couldn't see where it broke the rules, though it was the perfect response to all the clueless and anti-welsh drivel coming in on every possible internet media site so I guess that's why; Lest we forget everything is Wales' fault and the Welsh can't use facts to defend themselves, we have to put up the xenophobic BS.

Scrumdown wrote:Some things never change.

The irish always blame the coach for their players consistent failure at international level.

Warren Gatland, Eddie O'Sullivan, Declan Kidney, Warren Gatland (again).  

There was uproar from many including Keith Wood (again) when Gatland left Rory Best out of the original squad yet his performances on the tour proved Gatland absolutely right.  He is not international class. Neither is the 34 year old O'Driscoll.

Sexton also has it all to prove at international level.

You really don't know what you are talking about, do you? Rory Best not international class?  

He may not be on form and he doesn't deserve to start, but to claim Best isn't international standard is just laughable. Like the grand majority of your posts actually.

The Saint wrote:Why was T1000's "hard done-by" article locked? Couldn't see where it broke the rules, though it was the perfect response to all the clueless and anti-welsh drivel coming in on every possible internet media site so I guess that's why; Lest we forget everything is Wales' fault and the Welsh can't use facts to defend themselves, we have to put up the xenophobic BS.

Saint, do you ever post anything that doesn't involve whinging about how everybody apparently hates the welsh? All you do is cry about how much of a victim you are. Man up and post something sensible for a change.

Rory you truly are blind. Just look at any online social media site. If you still can't see it then oh well, I'm not going to dispute.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:Some things never change.

The irish always blame the coach for their players consistent failure at international level.

Warren Gatland, Eddie O'Sullivan, Declan Kidney, Warren Gatland (again).  

There was uproar from many including Keith Wood (again) when Gatland left Rory Best out of the original squad yet his performances on the tour proved Gatland absolutely right.  He is not international class. Neither is the 34 year old O'Driscoll.

Sexton also has it all to prove at international level.

You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?  Rory Best not international class?  

He may not be on form and he doesn't deserve to start, but to claim Best isn't international standard is just laughable.  Like the grand majority of your posts actually.

The bit about Best not being international class I would disagree with but apart from that it was a good post. I don't think the grand majority of his posts are as you say there are either.

SecretFly wrote:That's the issue.  The Lions tests so far is all talk, despite the 6N winning spine very prominent in both games.  
I'll be interested in seeing some rugby in the last game, if it's not too much trouble, from Gatland and his coaches.

Well this is the problem,Australia are far better than the English media made out pre tour, so now you have all the armchair boys all over this calling for BOD,Wilkinson or Sheridan.
I think the English media should give respect where due just like im happy to! the Welsh are the best players at the moment.
I think the English medias concern should be why hasn't the worlds largest playing pool come up with players who can get a score in a test match let alone half the representation from England being overseas boys.
We need to get our head out of the sand ,drop the spiteful jibes to other nations players and coaches and take care of our own house first.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:This is Gatland mind games at its absolute best.

Everyone talking BOD, players quietly and unassumingly preparing to be victorious with everyone expecting them to lose, exactly what they want.

So Gatland shafted BOD because he's playing mind games? Finally a Welsh poster who admits BOD being dropped had nothing to do with performance, but was purely down to Gatland's insidious nature.

The people crying now are the same ones complaining he was shoite in the tests so far. Truth is he was shoite. Move on.

Scrumdown wrote:There was uproar from many including Keith Wood (again) when Gatland left Rory Best out of the original squad yet his performances on the tour proved Gatland absolutely right.

EH??? Gatland picked Hartley and proved his selection was totally wrong by not even reaching the tour. If Gatland had shown some faith in the form NH Hooker rather than crushing his confidence, Best's tour could have been markedly different.

So when their players play crap it's still somebody else's fault...

Yeah, the welsh.  

Nobody is denying that Rory Best has been playing poorly recently, especially with his line-out throwing. Picking Hartley over him was a strange call though. Not to mention the fact that Hibbard has also been very inconsistent with his throwing.

We hear all the arguments from every side here but at the end of the day I have my opinions, everyone else has their own opinion whatever that may be. The proof as they say will be in the pudding, I will suport the Lions Saturday morning and if they come back hammered by the aussies then the team and welsh players who make up the majority of the team, the coaching staff who made the calls will have to take the blame for it and those posters on here will have to accept that. If they win and it is proved a good call all round then the others will have to accept that and apologise. Saturday will tell, oh an i apologise in advance if we do lose and their are bad performances i will be scathing.

This place used to be a sane place to discuss rugby. The comments on this and many other threads are as much an embarrassment as that 'Justice for BOD' nonsense on Facebook.