Gatland on dropping O'Driscoll

http://rugbyonslaught.blogspot.ie/2013/10/gatland-we-dropped-odriscoll-because.html

Speaking last week Gatland said that BOD was dropped because his legs had went in the last 15 mins of the second test and this was due to the Wallabies attacking his channel.

It seems strange considering a lot of players in the modern game only last that long and under less pressure

That's funny because he said last Saturday on the late late show that BOD wasn't dropped because of his performance in the second test but to reunite Roberts and Davies - which he felt was the better combination.

The reason he made 23 tackles is because:

a) Gatland picked a LH who couldn't scrummage
b) Our backrow got mullered on the deck
c) O'Driscoll was defending the 12 channel for much of the game

I've never heard such a load of tripe. Gatland is one bitter, nasty piece of work. Same with the nonsense about picking Farrell to spy on England.

rodders wrote:The reason he made 23 tackles is because:

a) Gatland picked a LH who couldn't scrummage
b) Our backrow got mullered on the deck
c) O'Driscoll was defending the 12 channel for much of the game

I've never heard such a load of tripe. Gatland is one bitter, nasty piece of work. Same with the nonsense about picking Farrell to spy on England.

 

Bitter and nasty peice of work is a bit harsh, Gatland is hardly my favourite person, he's a bit of a pleb if you ask me, and needs to keep his mouth shut more often than not, but proof is in the pudding re the BOD dropping. Some celtic posters are so precious about their players on here, BOD was a world class player, but noone is exempt from being dropped surely?

Gatland made a ballsy change. he knew there was going to be lot of unpleasantness. however, the lions won the tour. so his decisions overall were correct.

you can go over his statement/reasons/arguments with a fine toothcomb for as long as you wish. he was charged only with winning the lions tour. not picking any one individual, or ensuring national representation. and they won.

Crikey, I wish the lions analysts were as good as the experts on here.

I fail to see what he's got to be bitter about.

rodders wrote:....

I've never heard such a load of tripe. Gatland is one bitter, nasty piece of work. ....

Bitter... seems like only ones bitter are the few Irish posters that still cant accept BOD is at the end of his playing career and is no longer up to 1st class international rugby. If we where honest about it, he probably should never have been picked to tour in the first place off his previous international performances (2013 6 Nations). Billy Twelvetrees probably should have been selected before him.

To use your quote... "I've never heard such a load of tripe"

It all in the past now... Wales [sorry] Lions won the test series, lets put the rest to bed.  

Well we'll probably never know for certain why Gatland made that decision. As for reasons why the Lions won that match and the series, the picking of JD2 over BOD was one of the least significant.

No9 wrote:seems like only ones bitter are the few Irish posters that still cant accept BOD is at the end of his playing career and is no longer up to 1st class international rugby. If we where honest about it, he probably should never have been picked to tour in the first place off his previous international performances (2013 6 Nations). Billy Twelvetrees probably should have been selected before him.

This is part of the logic that I don't get, O'Driscoll put in some shift in the 2nd test and there were many younger than him who couldn't have dealt with the attacks coming his way for as long as he did and hard to see how Twelvetrees would have got in in front of him considering he's never played outside centre before but maybe Im just being a bitter Irishman there:censored: 

No9 wrote: If we where honest about it, he probably should never have been picked to tour in the first place off his previous international performances (2013 6 Nations). Billy Twelvetrees probably should have been selected before him.

How did Twelvetrees performances go in the 2013 6N?

Well he didn't lose to Italy or get sent off for stamping on someone

rodders wrote:

No9 wrote: If we where honest about it, he probably should never have been picked to tour in the first place off his previous international performances (2013 6 Nations). Billy Twelvetrees probably should have been selected before him.

How did Twelvetrees performances go in the 2013 6N?  

very promising debut vs Scotland then dropped in favour of Barrett.

munkian wrote:Well he didn't lose to Italy or get sent off for stamping on someone

Neither did BOD

Why are we arguing Twelvtrees V BOD? Twelvtrees is a 12 specialist (kind of) and BOD is a 13!

BOD probably deserved to travel through experience and performed admirably, but he isn't a young man, and it was a long tour, any hope of Roberts being fit meant Davies was always going to play 13, I had Davies and Tuilagi ahead of BOD though.

Ok, yellow carded then no ? And Ireland lost 22-15 didnt they ?

munkian wrote:Ok, yellow carded then no ? And Ireland lost 22-15 didnt they ?

Ireland not O'Driscoll, I know we say hes good but never said he was superman:boxing: 

marty2086 wrote:

munkian wrote:Ok, yellow carded then no ? And Ireland lost 22-15 didnt they ?

Ireland not O'Driscoll, I know we say hes good but never said he was superman:boxing: 

Jayzus, you'd argue your hole off for nothing

munkian wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

munkian wrote:Ok, yellow carded then no ? And Ireland lost 22-15 didnt they ?

Ireland not O'Driscoll, I know we say hes good but never said he was superman:boxing: 

Jayzus, you'd argue your hole off for nothing

 

lostinwales wrote:

rodders wrote:

No9 wrote: If we where honest about it, he probably should never have been picked to tour in the first place off his previous international performances (2013 6 Nations). Billy Twelvetrees probably should have been selected before him.

How did Twelvetrees performances go in the 2013 6N?  

very promising debut vs Scotland then dropped in favour of Barrett.  

I wrongly used Billy Twelvetrees as an example of a promising young centre, rather than taking an "old" centre who is past his prime and didnt have recent performance to justify his inclusion...

 should have realised I would have been taken literally...

My point is, BOD was selected (in my opinion) on name and not recent form. He is no longer up to the demands of international rugby, and as a player who will be seen as one of the all time bests, its a pitty he is pushing it so far that his final appearances are going to make him look average (if not below).

Be interesting to see how many call for Joe Schmidt's blood (as you did Gatland) when he is dropped from the Irish set-up.

No9 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

rodders wrote:

No9 wrote: If we where honest about it, he probably should never have been picked to tour in the first place off his previous international performances (2013 6 Nations). Billy Twelvetrees probably should have been selected before him.

How did Twelvetrees performances go in the 2013 6N?  

very promising debut vs Scotland then dropped in favour of Barrett.  

I wrongly used Billy Twelvetrees as an example of a promising young centre, rather than taking an "old" centre who is past his prime and didnt have recent performance to justify his inclusion...

 should have realised I would have been taken literally...

My point is, BOD was selected (in my opinion) on name and not recent form. He is no longer up to the demands of international rugby, and as a player who will be seen as one of the all time bests, its a pitty he is pushing it so far that his final appearances are going to make him look average (if not below).

Be interesting to see how many call for Joe Schmidt's blood (as you did Gatland) when he is dropped from the Irish set-up.

He made the Welsh centres look quite average the last time he played against Wales. If he is past it then what does that make Davies and Roberts? Never had it?

No9 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

rodders wrote:

No9 wrote: If we where honest about it, he probably should never have been picked to tour in the first place off his previous international performances (2013 6 Nations). Billy Twelvetrees probably should have been selected before him.

How did Twelvetrees performances go in the 2013 6N?  

very promising debut vs Scotland then dropped in favour of Barrett.  

I wrongly used Billy Twelvetrees as an example of a promising young centre, rather than taking an "old" centre who is past his prime and didnt have recent performance to justify his inclusion...

 should have realised I would have been taken literally...

My point is, BOD was selected (in my opinion) on name and not recent form. He is no longer up to the demands of international rugby, and as a player who will be seen as one of the all time bests, its a pitty he is pushing it so far that his final appearances are going to make him look average (if not below).

Be interesting to see how many call for Joe Schmidt's blood (as you did Gatland) when he is dropped from the Irish set-up.

If Schmidt rolls him out to play the captain's role at the pre-match press conference before dropping him for JD2 there will be plenty of Irish fans questioning his decision I promise you!!!

 

Gatland is a bit of a tool, i mean you don't admit to spying on Farrell to get info on how England do things. The only thing that will achieve is an unpleasant atmosphere on the next lions tour.

MrsP wrote:

No9 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

rodders wrote:

No9 wrote: If we where honest about it, he probably should never have been picked to tour in the first place off his previous international performances (2013 6 Nations). Billy Twelvetrees probably should have been selected before him.

How did Twelvetrees performances go in the 2013 6N?  

very promising debut vs Scotland then dropped in favour of Barrett.  

I wrongly used Billy Twelvetrees as an example of a promising young centre, rather than taking an "old" centre who is past his prime and didnt have recent performance to justify his inclusion...

 should have realised I would have been taken literally...

My point is, BOD was selected (in my opinion) on name and not recent form. He is no longer up to the demands of international rugby, and as a player who will be seen as one of the all time bests, its a pitty he is pushing it so far that his final appearances are going to make him look average (if not below).

Be interesting to see how many call for Joe Schmidt's blood (as you did Gatland) when he is dropped from the Irish set-up.

If Schmidt rolls him out to play the captain's role at the pre-match press conference before dropping him for JD2 there will be plenty of Irish fans questioning his decision I promise you!!!

 

He dropped him for Roberts in reality.

Tell you what though, why don't you lot hold off on recycling the old material until the Six Nations. That bone is going to be pretty worn out by then otherwise.

nathan wrote:Gatland is a bit of a tool, i mean you don't admit to spying on Farrell to get info on how England do things. The only thing that will achieve is an unpleasant atmosphere on the next lions tour.

I'm glad you know the coaching set up already. If people can hold a grudge for four years, then they have issues anyway.

surely gatland saying spying on England was tongue in cheek . it works both ways .

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:surely gatland saying spying on England was tongue in cheek . it works both ways .  

of course it was.

Risca Rev wrote:

nathan wrote:Gatland is a bit of a tool, i mean you don't admit to spying on Farrell to get info on how England do things. The only thing that will achieve is an unpleasant atmosphere on the next lions tour.

I'm glad you know the coaching set up already. If people can hold a grudge for four years, then they have issues anyway.

next tour is to NZ. only person i would prefer to see as head lions coach is Hansen. not kidding either.

I still see them as teeny bop 80's manufactured child pop cliche.
Not sure they'd bring much.

Gatland said that when they went to Downing Street that BOD gave him a Christmas card...! Proving that Gatland had not been crossed off the O'Driscoll family Christmas card list and there were no hard feelings from BOD.

I thought that was a great way to clear the media protagonism with a great sense of humour.

Risca Rev wrote:

nathan wrote:Gatland is a bit of a tool, i mean you don't admit to spying on Farrell to get info on how England do things. The only thing that will achieve is an unpleasant atmosphere on the next lions tour.

I'm glad you know the coaching set up already. If people can hold a grudge for four years, then they have issues anyway.

I don't but lets be honest, how often do they change? All the coaches aren't stupid and probably know it's going on but lets be honest. Is there a need to say it? No.

Now i'm sorry to say something nasty about your beloved one.

nathan wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

nathan wrote:Gatland is a bit of a tool, i mean you don't admit to spying on Farrell to get info on how England do things. The only thing that will achieve is an unpleasant atmosphere on the next lions tour.

I'm glad you know the coaching set up already. If people can hold a grudge for four years, then they have issues anyway.

I don't but lets be honest, how often do they change? All the coaches aren't stupid and probably know it's going on but lets be honest. Is there a need to say it? No.

Now i'm sorry to say something nasty about your beloved one.

Nathan we don't expect anything else from you.

maestegmafia wrote:

nathan wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

nathan wrote:Gatland is a bit of a tool, i mean you don't admit to spying on Farrell to get info on how England do things. The only thing that will achieve is an unpleasant atmosphere on the next lions tour.

I'm glad you know the coaching set up already. If people can hold a grudge for four years, then they have issues anyway.

I don't but lets be honest, how often do they change? All the coaches aren't stupid and probably know it's going on but lets be honest. Is there a need to say it? No.

Now i'm sorry to say something nasty about your beloved one.

Nathan we don't expect anything else from you.

Best not to go down this road Maes, everyone on this forum knows what your about...

No9 wrote:My point is, BOD was selected (in my opinion) on name and not recent form. He is no longer up to the demands of international rugby, and as a player who will be seen as one of the all time bests, its a pitty he is pushing it so far that his final appearances are going to make him look average (if not below).

Be interesting to see how many call for Joe Schmidt's blood (as you did Gatland) when he is dropped from the Irish set-up.

Did you miss the MOTM performance against Wales in the 6N? Does that not count as recent form?

Joe was the one who talked him into staying on so clearly he feels BOD has something left in his legs.

If BOD is not up to it then he shouldn't be picked no question. I think this may be a season too far but there was no doubt about his physical condition or form on tour or going into it - I don't recall anyone after or during the second test saying BODs legs had gone? ...no doubt this will become another urban myth of the tour now .....

BOD was a great. A legend. An irreplaceable. I'll admit it. Probably one of the best, most inspirational players in any position ever. A shining jewel in rugby's crown. An ambassador for the game, a charming role model.

But, Gatland made the right call.

Time to enjoy BODs legacy and not linger too long.

Just as NZ replaced Michael Jones and Dan Carter and will soon sadly, replace Richie McCaw, so too will Ireland have to find their next great.

There'll be books written on the BOD dropping.  

I'll be honest GE I think he may have made a mistake staying this season - he wants to beat the ABs but not only has that ship sailed, its hit an ice berg and sunk without trace.

Gats is still a gobshoite though....

profitius wrote:There'll be books written on the BOD dropping.  

not outside of ireland

quinsforever wrote:

profitius wrote:There'll be books written on the BOD dropping.  

not outside of ireland

Rubbish. It's Gatlands USP now for everything.

profitius wrote:There'll be books written on the BOD dropping.  

C.S. Lewis already wrote it.

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

profitius wrote:There'll be books written on the BOD dropping.  

not outside of ireland

Rubbish. It's Gatlands USP now for everything.

only in ireland

rodders wrote:

profitius wrote:There'll be books written on the BOD dropping.  

C.S. Lewis already wrote it.

The horse and his boy?

Gatty has/had absolutely no obligation to answer to a few Irish supporters as to why he dropped their idol.especially when they fail to grasp the role of a selector/coach.

Gatty's obligation is to his team, his coaching staff, and those that appointed him to the position.

The Mistake Gatty made was to take Brian O'Driscoll away in the first place, let alone make him Captain.... in hindsight maybe a role that could have been given to Chris Robshaw?

rodders wrote:

No9 wrote:My point is, BOD was selected (in my opinion) on name and not recent form. He is no longer up to the demands of international rugby, and as a player who will be seen as one of the all time bests, its a pitty he is pushing it so far that his final appearances are going to make him look average (if not below).

Be interesting to see how many call for Joe Schmidt's blood (as you did Gatland) when he is dropped from the Irish set-up.

Did you miss the MOTM performance against Wales in the 6N? Does that not count as recent form?

Joe was the one who talked him into staying on so clearly he feels BOD has something left in his legs.

If BOD is not up to it then he shouldn't be picked no question. I think this may be a season too far but there was no doubt about his physical condition or form on tour or going into it - I don't recall anyone after or during the second test saying BODs legs had gone? ...no doubt this will become another urban myth of the tour now .....

Tbf rodders, the Wales match isn't really relevant, and I don't even think he was Ireland's best players that day.

However, after the 6N he performed strongly for Leinster and played well against admittedly weak opposition in the warm-up games. I still think he was excellent in the first test, and although he lacked his usual creativity in the second test, he put in another strong defensive shift.

Once you look at the first two tests in depth, you see the complete lack of chemistry between BOD and Davies. There were plenty of examples of them misreading each both in attack and defence, most prominently for the AAC try in the 2nd test.

I don't think BOD deserved to be dropped, I thought he outperformed Davies fairly comfortably but it was more important to find a centre combination that worked, and in that sense Gats has been vindicated.

quinsforever wrote:

rodders wrote:

profitius wrote:There'll be books written on the BOD dropping.  

C.S. Lewis already wrote it.

The horse and his boy?

No the one were the Lion gets stabbed in the back by the gobshoite.

rodders wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

rodders wrote:

profitius wrote:There'll be books written on the BOD dropping.  

C.S. Lewis already wrote it.

The horse and his boy?

No the one were the Lion gets stabbed in the back by the gobshoite.

 

nathan wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

nathan wrote:Gatland is a bit of a tool, i mean you don't admit to spying on Farrell to get info on how England do things. The only thing that will achieve is an unpleasant atmosphere on the next lions tour.

I'm glad you know the coaching set up already. If people can hold a grudge for four years, then they have issues anyway.

I don't but lets be honest, how often do they change? All the coaches aren't stupid and probably know it's going on but lets be honest. Is there a need to say it? No.

Now i'm sorry to say something nasty about your beloved one.

He's not my beloved one. That's quite childish. I just don't think a lot of the criticism is fair. Just because somebody offers a differing opinion, doesn't mean they're in love with that person. Are you in love with Farrell, if you think that Nasty Gatland has been such a meanie again?  

rodders wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

rodders wrote:

profitius wrote:There'll be books written on the BOD dropping.  

C.S. Lewis already wrote it.

The horse and his boy?

No the one were the Lion gets stabbed in the back by the gobshoite.

idolatry is a sin dont ya know dear boy. c s lewis's lion is a metaphor for jesus. and while BOD may have a good side-step and low centre of gravity and only be 1 letter away from the almighty, lets not take the p1ss too much shall we

No9 wrote: My point is, BOD was selected (in my opinion) on name and not recent form. He is no longer up to the demands of international rugby, and as a player who will be seen as one of the all time bests, its a pitty he is pushing it so far that his final appearances are going to make him look average (if not below).

Be interesting to see how many call for Joe Schmidt's blood (as you did Gatland) when he is dropped from the Irish set-up.

Players continuing past their peak is nothing new. Rugby is a 15-man game and O'driscoll has been playing in underperforming sides employing systems that don't favour his remaining attacking talents. With an expansive passing gameplan he caused fair bit of damage for Leinster last season. Maybe that's not enough for some but when the names of Shane Williams or Scott Gibbs are invoked I don't think; "stayed too long, should never have turned up for that last Lions tour, really sullied his reputation". Anyone who remembers great rugby players in a negative light rather than for the moments of magic they produced does so of their own choosing in my opinion, seeking to tear them down.

GloriousEmpire wrote:I still see them as teeny bop 80's manufactured child pop cliche.
Not sure they'd bring much.

Not many people know that the B side of 'MMMbop' was 'Ebop'.

The proof was in the pudding when the Lions won the series. But Gatland now enters an exclusive club of those who have won a Lions Series. The dropping of BOD was the right call, people were calling for gat's blood when the squad was named, but now singing his praises when he won the series. For what it's worth I would have not taken BOD.