Best B&I players not on tour.

by gregortree Fri 05 Jul 2013, 3:42 pm

Quite a few candidates from across your sceptered isles I'm sure.
And remember, so such thing as a stupid idea, so feel free to feel uninhibited with your picks.
Also if you wish, add what weaknesses in the 2 tests so far, might have been addressed by your men.

I'll kick off with a few Englishmen, but you are welcome to add your own national favourites.
Sheridan at LH (ok Toulon allowing) Lions have struggled when Corbs was down.
Ben Morgan - some added oomph from the back and around the fringes would have helped.

by Taffineastbourne Fri 05 Jul 2013, 3:49 pm

Charteris,Ryan Jones,Madigan come to mind.

by **rodders** Fri 05 Jul 2013, 3:51 pm

Jim Hamilton
Nathan Hines
Donnacha Ryan
Stephen Ferris
Kelly Brown
Ryan Jones
Chris Robshaw
Danny Care

by Pat_Mustard Fri 05 Jul 2013, 3:51 pm

Kelly Brown, Chris Robshaw, Andrew Sheridan, James Hook, Lee Byrne, Nathan Hines, and probably a few who might have been there if not for injury, Ferris and Rennie spring to mind.

by RubyGuby Fri 05 Jul 2013, 3:57 pm

Byrne, Biggar, Paul James, Hook, Ken Owens, Ryan Jones, Scott Williams - That Gatland fella hasn't got a clue!!

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:00 pm

I don't understand why people rate Sheridan so high. He was man shamed by Cole in HC QF and the amount of critisim Cole has got on this tour.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:01 pm

Budgie

by Scrumpy Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:09 pm

Wilko, he would have got that kick.

by fa0019 Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:21 pm

Sheridan, Hartley, Murray, Hines, Hamilton, Strokosch, Robshaw, Morgan.. thats a pack and a half. I would even fancy that pack vs. the Lions 8 on Saturday.

by JmD Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:28 pm

Jim Hamilton was the form lock in the 6 nations, he would have really taken control of the lineout without POC.

Kelly Brown was in excellent form but got crowded out of a talented backrow pool. Joe Launchbury would have offered more than the Lions second rows around the park. James Hook would have been useful to cover 10 and also the centre positions when Roberts and Tuilagi were out.

by SecretFly Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:32 pm

Two thirds of the Present B&I Lions?

by GunsGerms Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:33 pm

JmD wrote:Jim Hamilton was the form lock in the 6 nations, he would have really taken control of the lineout without POC.

Kelly Brown was in excellent form but got crowded out of a talented backrow pool. Joe Launchbury would have offered more than the Lions second rows around the park. James Hook would have been useful to cover 10 and also the centre positions when Roberts and Tuilagi were out.

Cant agree re Hamilton. He is a bit of a loose cannon. He performed well in the line out but not so well else where.

by fa0019 Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:34 pm

Bit like Parling then... but better.

by RubyGuby Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:37 pm

On a serious note

Wilkinson and Nathan Hines for me would have made an impact in the Tests; particulrly as JW is suited to this type of game. Hook among those giants may also have been a good foil fitting in at 10 or 12

by fa0019 Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:39 pm

I agree Ruby... without O'Connell that pack lacked experience. Hines would have loved that 2nd test.

by RubyGuby Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:41 pm

I had Hines in my original squad at the expense of AWJ whom I don't rate that much

by fa0019 Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:42 pm

I agree. On paper a great player, on the pitch... average at best.

by Glas a du Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:49 pm

James
Owens
Ross
Launchberry
Ryan
Ryan Jones
Kelly Brown
Johny Beattie
Robshaw
Laidlaw
Biggar
Madigan
Burns
Carr
Scott
Foden.

by RubyGuby Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:51 pm

That's one pretty shoite team Glas but its names I guess

by Glas a du Fri 05 Jul 2013, 4:53 pm

I like them *huff*

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 05 Jul 2013, 5:04 pm

That team is fairly muck. madigan on the wing and Carr (in the team at all is bad but) at 13?

Congrats for finding 2 Welsh players that are not already in Aus though.

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 05 Jul 2013, 5:14 pm

Does he mean Fionn Carr?!? I thought there was another Carr I didnt know about. He must be related to him

by Glas a du Fri 05 Jul 2013, 5:23 pm

It's not a blydi team, I just think in an orderly manner!

by alive555 Fri 05 Jul 2013, 5:29 pm

Ross rennie

by Glas a du Fri 05 Jul 2013, 6:39 pm

Billie Gaviscon is more effective.

by SecretFly Fri 05 Jul 2013, 6:40 pm

That stopped you all in your tracks!

by InjuredYetAgain Fri 05 Jul 2013, 7:33 pm

Hindsight is marvellous (and in this case, totally unnecessary) but Madigan is a glaring omission in my book. Take ANY other stand off rather than mess Stuart Hogg and Twelvetrees around.
I would ace said Matt Scott but seeing as how the ball isn't getting as far as the centres, he was probably better off in SA.
If he found form earlier in the season, Ben Foden.

PS No way should Greig Laidlaw have been anywhere near the Lions. That said, he has long since signed up to Gatland's game plan of hoofing the ball all time, occasionally somewhere near the tramlines.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 05 Jul 2013, 7:56 pm

Hines and Hamilton should have toured ahead of Evans and Parling.

Had Ben Morgan not got injured in the 6 Nations, he also should have toured, as we have seriously lacked carrying from the back row in the two tests so far.

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 05 Jul 2013, 7:59 pm

Gethin Jenkins and Dylan Hartley?

by Glas a du Fri 05 Jul 2013, 8:01 pm

And he (Morgan) is almost Welsh Very Happy

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 05 Jul 2013, 8:01 pm

Oh don't read this threads title on that bit where you type the website in, it could make this thread very libelous Laugh

by InjuredYetAgain Fri 05 Jul 2013, 8:01 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Hines and Hamilton should have toured ahead of Evans and Parling.

Had Ben Morgan not got injured in the 6 Nations, he also should have toured, as we have seriously lacked carrying from the back row in the two tests so far.

Mmmmm, strange one, Ozzy. Totally agree about Ben Morgan and Hines. Hines would be in his element winding Horwill up. I am a massive fan of Jim Hamilton - but only for Scotland. I really don't think he would add enough apart from ballast and winding up the opposition, though, for the next step up

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 05 Jul 2013, 8:13 pm

IYA

Hamilton is a top lineout operator, abrasive, and would add ballast. I'm sure if you asked James Horwill would he rather face 4. Alun Wyn Jones 5. Geoff Parling or Hines and Hamilton together, he wouldn't be begging to line up against the Scotsmen.

by Glas a du Fri 05 Jul 2013, 8:24 pm

Hamilton pips Parling anyway. Hines is just class.

by **Rugby Fan** Fri 05 Jul 2013, 8:40 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Hines and Hamilton should have toured ahead of Evans and Parling.

Of course, Big Jim drew a yellow card in South Africa a few weeks ago, which went a long way in turning the tide in that match, handing Scotland a loss.

When we consider players we'd like to have seen with the Lions, we're always going to think of all the things they can do well, and not how things might go wrong. Odd really, given that we only start wanting other players because some of the original squad are falling short of expectations.

Rory Best is about as good an example as you are going to get of how we can convince ourselves about a player, only to see him stumble. In a lesser respect, Wade and Twelvetrees also showed the gap between our highest hopes and a more mundane reality.

This doesn't mean they are bad players, just that the stars aren't in alignment for them over a few weeks. It might be down to form, injury, the gameplan, pressure, or just bad breaks.

Maybe Hamilton and Hines would have made a difference. Simon Shaw was immense in 2009 but he also got sent off on tour in New Zealand in 2004. Hamilton has seen red before, while Hines has been banned for stamping in the past. In the best case, we would have seen their best, but we might have seen their worst.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 05 Jul 2013, 8:43 pm

Rugby Fan

Of course that reasoning can be applied to anything. Who knows what would have happened with different players out there. I just feel that we'd have had a better chance with the 3 guys I mentioned.

by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Fri 05 Jul 2013, 9:00 pm

Im struggling for a hooker and outside centre any suggestions? Ive not picked Hartley as he was an original selection.
1. Sheridan
2. ?
3. Paul James
4. Hamilton
5. Launchberry or Hines
6. Robshaw or Ryan Jones
7. Kelly Brown or Stefon Armitage
8. Ben Morgan
9. Care
10. Wilko
11. Yarde
12. Hook
13. ?
14. Mike Brown
15. Delon Armitage

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 05 Jul 2013, 9:04 pm

Ben Morgan was sorely missed this tour. He is the most dynamic and robust number 8 in Britain and Ireland.

by RubyGuby Fri 05 Jul 2013, 9:09 pm

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:Im struggling for a hooker and outside centre any suggestions? Ive not picked Hartley as he was an original selection.
1. Sheridan
2. Ken Owens is as good as anything` out there
3. Paul James
4. Hamilton
5. Launchberry or Hines
6. Robshaw or Ryan Jones
7. Kelly Brown or Stefon Armitage
8. Ben Morgan
9. Care
10. Wilko
11. Yarde
12. Hook
13. Scott Williams (Think Twickenham 2012)
14. Mike Brown
15. Delon Armitage

by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Fri 05 Jul 2013, 9:13 pm

Thanks Ruby.

by RubyGuby Fri 05 Jul 2013, 9:17 pm

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:Thanks Ruby.

Good team mate

by **Rugby Fan** Fri 05 Jul 2013, 9:42 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Of course that reasoning can be applied to anything. Who knows what would have happened with different players out there.

Sure. Hamilton stuck out for me because I also thought he should have been a selection. Then I saw the card in South Africa and thought "be careful what you wish for".

by R!skysports Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:00 pm

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:Im struggling for a hooker and outside centre any suggestions? Ive not picked Hartley as he was an original selection.
1. Sheridan
2. ?
3. Paul James
4. Hamilton
5. Launchberry or Hines
6. Robshaw or Ryan Jones
7. Kelly Brown or Stefon Armitage
8. Ben Morgan
9. Care
10. Wilko
11. Yarde
12. Hook
13. ?
14. Mike Brown
15. Delon Armitage

Ross ford. Strong in the scrum and very good around the park

Did not get highlighted because of his slight weaknesses in the line out - but in hindsight he would have fitted in quite well

by Jhamer25 Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:10 pm

People seem to forget Euan Murray a lot mind. Would have been a cracking addition to them team. The Lions really missed Gethin Jenks and the only other two who come to mind really are Chris Robshaw and Ben Morgan. Oh and Danny Care

by formerly known as Sam Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:32 pm

Best 15 not currently on tour:

1. Paul James - big end to the season and is a quality operator
2. Ross Ford - mobile and experienced hooker, darts can be a touch wayward but only Tommy Youngs has hit the jumpers this tour anyway
3. Wilson - works well with James, good tour to Arg and a strong end to the season
4. Hamilton - big, strong, abrasive and an excellent all round second row
5. Launchbury - all action lock with a strong carrying game and great hands
6. Brown - leads from the front, a work horse who will compete everywhere and puts in big hits
7. Rennie - proper 7
8. Morgan - the big explosive ball carrier every backrow needs
9. Care - high tempo with good all round game
10. Flood - great attacking skill set, experienced playmaker
11. Yarde - pace to burn and plenty of power to go with it
12. Madigan - second play maker, great kicking record
13. Scott - classy Scottish midfielder
14. Wade - technically on tour but forced to pass to Kearney and then chase his woeful kicks from every kick return
15. Tait - pace, step and can kick very well after Geordie's tutoring

by SecretFly Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:36 pm

Healy. He was on tour...He ain't now. That makes him pickable again. And I would.

by Guest Sat 06 Jul 2013, 1:40 am

Scrumpy wrote:Wilko, he would have got that kick.

Thought Farrell would've the other day. So that point (though not necessarily true) is rather moot.

by red_stag Sat 06 Jul 2013, 3:10 am

01 Paul James
02 Ross Ford
03 Mike Ross
04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Joe Launchbury
06 Kelly Brown
07 Chris Robshaw
08 Ryan Jones
09 Greg Laidlaw
10 Jonny Wilkinson
11 Tim Visser
12 Luke Marshall
13 Matt Scott
14 Chris Ashton
15 Ben Foden

by king_carlos Sat 06 Jul 2013, 3:15 am

1.Sheridan
2.Owens
3.Murray
4.Hines
5.Launchberry
6.Brown
7.Robshaw
8.Morgan

9.Care
10.Madigan

11.Visser
12.Twelvetrees - has barely been there
13.Scott
14.Wade - see Twelvetrees
15.Brown

Whilst I wouldn't say all deserved to tour it isn't a half bad side!

Throw in Ferris, Rennie and dare I say it JSD if fit.

by Shifty Sat 06 Jul 2013, 6:21 am

Ben Morgan
Ryan Jones
James Hook
Dan Biggar

I think those 4 should of been on tour Smile

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