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3rd Ashes test Old Trafford

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Post by Guest Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:19 am

First topic message reminder :

SQUAD

Squad Alastair Cook (capt), Joe Root, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Jonny Bairstow, James Taylor, Matt Prior, Tim Bresnan, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, James Anderson, Chris Tremlett, Monty Panesar


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Post by Mike Selig Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:23 pm

Hmmm... I honestly think given some of the noises made about the pitch from both camps that England may well pick 2 spinners and 2 seamers. Obviously it would be a bit of a risk, but I think it may be a good move.

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Post by VTR Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:28 pm

CF wrote:The only way Monty will play is if, KP isnt fit and they play prior at 6 and 5 bowlers.

Yep agree with that. And as the batting has been below par I don't see 5 bowlers happening. In fact even if they'd all scored a few hundreds each so far I wouldn't see it happening either. 4 bowlers is "the formula" at home.

I wonder if there is a bit of kidology involved with putting Monty in the squad to keep the Aussies guessing, which may in turn make them play 2 spinners: Agar's bowling is buffet even if he can smack a few runs.

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Post by GSC Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:34 pm

I agree with Mike, its more likely Bresnan goes than a batsman. Because the likelihood of England picking 5 bowlers in a series where their batting has misfired and their bowling well on top is slim to none
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Post by VTR Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:44 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Hmmm... I honestly think given some of the noises made about the pitch from both camps that England may well pick 2 spinners and 2 seamers. Obviously it would be a bit of a risk, but I think it may be a good move.
 
Would be a bold move. Or would certainly be perceived as one, it could of course be the right call on another heatwave-created dustbowl, as England playing 2 spinners at home just isn't the done thing. Last time I think was Cardiff 2009, did not go well but that is a long time ago now, and as we now know with hindsight Monty was in the team for his batting on that occassion.

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Post by msp83 Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:31 pm

Don't think playing both Monty and Swann here would be a bad move. Monty has a good record at OT, and if the pitch offers some bounce as well as some turn, he could turn out to be lethal, his accurate line of attack combined with the variations from the pitch can recreate the Ravindra Jadeja driven nightmares for the already struggling Australian batsmen. Bresnan to go out, and Monty to be back in.

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Post by GSC Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:35 pm

I think it'll probably be Bresnan, Root was an able backup to Swann at Lords, and Bresnan gives the side some balance
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Post by Duty281 Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:26 pm

I think Taylor will be playing tomorrow, and I wouldn't be too surprised if Tremlett was as well if the murmurs and hints from the England camp are anything to go by.

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Post by GSC Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:05 pm

Tremlett would be the biggest shock. By all accounts he's not ready for a return to tests yet
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Post by Cowshot Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:11 pm

My guess is that Monty and Tremlett are a smokescreen and we'll play an unchanged side if KP is fit.

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Post by JDizzle Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:24 pm

Interesting thoughts from Athers as Sky, he seems to think that Tremlett isn't just there to carry the drinks. Would be intriguing to see, but is a risk which isn't this England teams MO.

Weather set fair for tomorrow though. Can't wait! Very Happy 

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Post by mystiroakey Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:30 pm

Yep been working my socks of last 3 days- so I can chill in doors for the next two. Cant wait!!!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:32 pm

I can't see how Tremlett will play this Test? Maybe somewhere like The Oval, but not Old Trafford?!

Maybe we could be in for a surprise tomorrow. I highly doubt it however. Expect the same side depending on KP's fitness
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Post by NickisBHAFC Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:43 pm

Ill despair if Tremlett start tomorrows. 

Ill go for

1. Cook
2. Root
3. Trott
4. KP (If fit) if not Taylor
5. Bell
6. Bairstow
7. Prior
8. Swann
9. Bresnan
10. Broad
11. Anderson

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:53 pm

Yeah, I'd be surprised if England changed the team, other than due to injury.

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Post by Duty281 Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:55 pm

I really hope we do pick Tremlett tomorrow in place of reliable Tim. Tremlett has all the potential to be England's second best seamer behind Anderson, and he'd be the perfect compliment to the Burnley Express down under. Pick him tomorrow I say!

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Post by liverbnz Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:00 pm

I think KP will play tomorrow. His tweets today seem to be hinting that he's fit.

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Post by JDizzle Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:02 pm

If KP does miss out, then Taylor has to bat 4. It's where he bats for Notts, it is where he is comfortable and it is where he has scored the runs that have put him into the squad; let him bat there. Bell is scoring runs at 5, and whenever he does that we always shove him up the order so this time just let him score runs at 5! It's one of my pet hates, sometimes it makes sense for someone to go up the order (Clarke should bat at 4 for Aus IMO) but this time and many other times it doesn't! Don't meddle unnecessarily.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:04 pm

Duty281 wrote:I really hope we do pick Tremlett tomorrow in place of reliable Tim. Tremlett has all the potential to be England's second best seamer behind Anderson, and he'd be the perfect compliment to the Burnley Express down under. Pick him tomorrow I say!

That;s the thing with Bresnan though, he's reliable. He offers control, and reverse swing with the ball, and adds to the batting. Guildford, among others, has suggested that Tremlett isn't ready for 5 days of cricket. Of course, the England staff will have an opinion on that, but I think it's a risk they won't take, given that the benefits probably wouldn't be that great.
Of course I could be completely wrong.

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Post by jimbohammers Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:23 am

Do we need Panesar to play as a second spinner?

Remember we have Joe Root, who has been handy with the ball.

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Post by Mike Selig Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:32 am

The noises being made in the England camp strongly suggest KP is fit and will play.

I agree with JD that Taylor should bat 4 if KP isn't fit, but this looks like it may be a moot point.

I just personally hope the Aussie batsmen turn up for this match...

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Post by LivinginItaly Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:38 am

I think the team will be unchanged depending on kp's fitness, especially after the three wickets root has already got in this series. I really do think that root could develop into one of our best part-time bowlers over the last twenty years, certainly if you compare him to the likes of trott, kp, hick etc. A very good option for future tours of the sub continent.

Hoping for england to win the toss and bat solidly, grinding the aussies down. Nothing spectacular in the first session, just sensible run accumulation building a good old-fashioned platform. The bonus is by chance today I have a lesson scheduled until 10 am (9am bst) and then the next will start at 6.30pm (5.30 bst) so it looks like almost a full days cricket watching for on my balcony enjoying the 35 degree heat! The perfect day if it included watching a cook hundred, he could do with some runs in this series to help him relax.

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Post by GSC Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:50 am

Few rumours floating around, Warner and Lyon in, Agar and Hughes out
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:51 am

Both moves would make sense in my eyes if true
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Post by mystiroakey Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:52 am

Ironically this could actually be the ground were agar shows why he is here!!

but if lyon is coming in and they clearly have smith that has shown to be as good if not better than agar , I can kind of understand it!


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Post by GSC Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:54 am

Agars here to take wickets. He's bowled poorly.

The 98 was a nice story but distracts from his bowling being not good enough for tests
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Post by mystiroakey Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:57 am

Yes I agree completely however this is a spinning wicket?

so it would be a good place to use your best spinners!!


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Post by GSC Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:05 am

That's what they've done
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Post by mystiroakey Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:09 am

well they must have thought he was good before??

maybe give him a chance in a place he can actually proove his worth

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Post by GSC Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:11 am

They picked him as a gamble and he's been useless as a bowler. Average of 124 I heard.

It's 2-0, they had to go back to Lyon
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Post by GSC Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:31 am

England unchanged

Aus win the toss and will bat
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Post by Duty281 Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:34 am

There's a fair bit of cloud about. I think with an Australian batting line-up low on confidence, and Anderson in the form of his life, Australia will be all out by 5pm tonight. Anderson to get a five-for!

Good to hear KP's fit as well.

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Post by GSC Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:35 am

It's humid and muggy at OT so England might not be too upset
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Post by GSC Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:37 am

@bbctms: Eng: Cook Root Trott Pietersen Bell Bairstow Prior Bresnan Broad Swann Anderson

Aus: Watson, Rogers, Khawaja, Clarke, Smith, Warner, Haddin, Siddle, Starc, Harris, Lyon
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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:38 am

Morning all.  So the Aussies win the toss.  Good toss to win they reckon?

England have to bat last then. could be interesting.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:43 am

I agree with the Aussie changes (maybe would've liked to see Bird instead of Starc) but I think they've got it right!

England unchanged no surprises there.

Might fancy us to make the most of this pitch and conditions this morning
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Post by Gerry SA Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:44 am

Phillip Hughes is Australia's highest run scorer across the tour so far and can't find a place at the top of the order. Strange. Hughes over Rogers all day long for me.

Lyon deserved another go. He got 9 wickets in his last test.

Seems as though Starc's been picked because he can bat as well as bowl. Bird desparately unlucky to miss out.

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Post by Gerry SA Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:45 am

trebellbobaggins wrote:Morning all.  So the Aussies win the toss.  Good toss to win they reckon?

England have to bat last then. could be interesting.
The way Australia are batting, the match could be over by lunch on Saturday

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Post by LivinginItaly Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:45 am

Well obviously england would have liked to win the toss and bat first, but actually the loss of the toss could be a blessing in surprise. Firstly the pressure will be on the aussies to take advantage of the pitch and get a big score. Secondly I think it might be good for england's top order to bat second in a calmer manner, they seemed to frenetic in the first innings of the previous two tests.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:50 am

LivinginItaly wrote:Well obviously england would have liked to win the toss and bat first, but actually the loss of the toss could be a blessing in surprise. Firstly the pressure will be on the aussies to take advantage of the pitch and get a big score. Secondly I think it might be good for england's top order to bat second in a calmer manner, they seemed to frenetic in the first innings of the previous two tests.

 Yeah true.  They tend to start very wonky.

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Post by dummy_half Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:02 am

BBC reporting a tweet fro an Aussie journalist asking 'if we win the toss do we bowl or collapse first?'

More seriously, I think it helps set the game up having the Aussies bat first, epsecially with Warner back in the line up. If they can get off to a decent start and put runs on the board, the match will have a rather different dynamic from the first two games.

The only problem is that Engalnd might well have the best of the batting conditions for their first innings (say from middle of tomorrow through to the end of Saturday). We'll need to establish a decent lead though to make the 4th innings chase manageable.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:32 am

so taylor isnt starting Sad

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Post by mystiroakey Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:33 am

Good start by the aus!!

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Post by Mike Selig Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:35 am

Morning all. Good gutsy move by Australia to bat first given all their troubles. I still would have opened with Warner, but perhaps Watson will prove me wrong. I think they've got the Starc decision right though - both Siddle and Harris are more "stock" bowlers, so having Bird in as well wouldn't be the best of balance. Nobody is surprised to see Lyon in for Agar, but I don't think Agar's been as bad as some make out, and I don't think Lyon will be the saviour some think he is.

England are unchanged, which is not surprising really.

The pitch actually doesn't look that dry to me on my TV screen TBH.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:39 am

Rogers 26 off 26!!

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Post by alfie Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:39 am

So far it looks a good toss to win. Watson and Rogers haven't yet been troubled by the new ball.

Australia's best chance of course to make the most of batting first here and hope the pitch deteriorates - this is a good start but it is still very early...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:40 am

Rogers has started nicely
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Post by alfie Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:54 am

Agree the Australians have made reasonable changes...Starc is a better choice as variation from Siddle and Harris (Bird will have to wait until Harris is rotated out ) , and Warner for Hughes makes sense , though I thought he might have opened...
Not sure anyone sees Lyon as a "saviour" , Mike : but he is probably a more dangerous spinner than Agar.

Not much happening for England at the moment. Might see Swann get a pretty early bowl today.

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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:59 am

What is going on? Why is the collapse not starting!?
Good start from Watson and Rogers so far, good toss to win, and good selection as well from Australia. Starc v Bird could be debated, but I think Starc is that kind who has that something extra about him, so I would say fair enough. I hope Warner bats 4 though rather than 6.
Good to see Kevin Pietersen is fit and ready to go. Still waiting for a special from the man.

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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:03 pm

I don't think many would expect Lyon to regularly run through batting units, but he has shown that he's a capable spinner, and he has reasonable experience. Agar might one day develop into a decent spinner, but he hasn't shown as much threat as Lyon usually manages with the ball, and he's light on experience even at the first class level. Lyon should have started the series particularly after his last test performance, it is only fair he's getting his chance here.

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Post by Mike Selig Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:04 pm

Watson and Rogers have had a couple of useful starts so far in this series to be fair. Rogers (who will now promptly get out) strikes me as organised, reasonably compact, and aware of his game - runs hard as well. I think he's very unlucky not to have played more tests up until now.

Bresnan has so far been the pick of the bowlers. There's a bit of swing there, but so far England a bit wide.

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