what would you do if......

Your playing partner or someone in the clubhouse made a racist comment, similar to the ones made by Steve Williams, Sergio Garcia and Elkington?

Please add comments to justify your choices.

Ignore it

I would give them Mac's PM details so they could get in touch and feel the lily livered wrath of how they should behave in every situation and the degree to which they should feel shamed by their statement. Then I'd suggest they give their property to the poor, resign from their job and give their possessions away. They are clearly scumbags.

Loaded question much.........

Why do some of the answer options start with capital letters whilst others don't? Also please explain the difference between 'Do Nothing' and 'let it go'?

Really well thought out question with diverse and distinct options...at least we know you never stole it out of The Guardian because you don't read that...oh wait!!

I could write an essay on the different types of situation that would provoke a different response. Can you give us a clue what your agenda is so that I can perhaps pick a scenario that fits in

JAS wrote:I could write an essay on the different types of situation that would provoke a different response.

So what you're saying is that racism isn't a simple black and white issue?

Flippancy aside, that's spot on. Circumstances and principals dictate responses for all human beings but the balance of priority between the two is an individual character trait. I can picture circumstances where a number of the options would be the ones I'd take.

Never met an intelligent rascist...

Roller_Coaster wrote:

JAS wrote:I could write an essay on the different types of situation that would provoke a different response.

So what you're saying is that racism isn't a simple black and white issue?

Flippancy aside, that's spot on. Circumstances and principals dictate responses for all human beings but the balance of priority between the two is an individual character trait. I can picture circumstances where a number of the options would be the ones I'd take.

Well of the three notable incidents recently involving Williams, Garcia and Elkington the response has been pretty much the same on here so it would be a pretty short essay as far as I can see.

A racist comment and racial abuse are two different things though, and given that all three apologised immediately, is there any more to say?

Is there more to say about a lot of things? Doesn't stop you banging on about religion ad infinitum does it.

Always a good debate Diggers, and very easy to wind up and defeat a bible thumper.

Ditto racism and very easy to wind up someone who hates political correctness.
In all seriousness though, and this isn't calling anyone on here remotely racist though lets face it everyone is probably slightly racist in some ways, but I cant imagine a safer place in the world to make a bit of casually racist/sexist banter than a golf club and nobody batting an eyelid.

Well, you are probably right in that DIggers, I've probably met more idiots who play golf than anywhere else. In fact I really don't feel particularly welcome at St.Andrews at all, and only go into the clubhouse to hand in cards.

super_realist wrote:Well, you are probably right in that DIggers, I've probably met more idiots who play golf than anywhere else. In fact I really don't feel particularly welcome at St.Andrews at all, and only go into the clubhouse to hand in cards.

What have you done to annoy the people in your club?

JAS wrote:I could write an essay on the different types of situation that would provoke a different response. Can you give us a clue what your agenda is so that I can perhaps pick a scenario that fits in

How about the three I mention in the question above.

Someone makes the stevie williams comment at your club dinner.

You are playing with someone who was defeated by a black member - and who felt hard done by in terms of gamesmanship - a few days ago in the club matchplay comp.  During the conversation you are having with them while playing in a medal they make the same remarks as Garcia did about woods.

Standing on the first tee with a few groups waiting to go out a fellow member tells a similar tale to Elk's tweet, that all waiting can hear, and uses the P word to describe people of potential Pakistani decent.

I look forward to your three essay responses.

Nothing Mac, they just aren't the sort of people I want to associate with, nor are they very friendly.
All they do is watch football on tv, and I hate watching football.

Mac, what would you do in the same situation if someone said something that was anti dog, gingerist, ageist, anti-religion, fattist etc?

Ok, some examples...

If I was drawn in a 3 ball with 2 other guys, one of whom was of Asian, Afro Carribbean or any other non Caucasian and the other one made a comment containing the P word or N word. I'd question his comment on the spot.

If he persisted and/or actually directed abuse at the other guy then a) he would get a gobful b) I'd report it and c) ask not to be paired with him again.

If a mate made a totally out of character, one off comment (a la Garcia/Elkington) with a tenuous contrived racial link (a la fried chicken), I'd probably do an initial double take and think wtf did that come from...then let it go...if he repeated similar comments I'd ask him wtf was wrong with him.

If I was in company in the clubhouse and somebody told a not politically correct joke, I'd probably laugh along...assuming of course I actually found the joke funny.

I await being frogmarched to the Gallows by the totalitarian Guardianistas for utterly deplorable racist sympathising!!

Mac,
I don't see why you make such a fuss about the stupidity of players and caddy when golf is institutionally exclusionary, whether of women, ethnic varieties or the working man (or woman); or anchorers.

Far better you start with d1ckhead Dawson, Billy Payne, Hootie Johnson and the Augusta Blowfish.

McLaren wrote:

JAS wrote:I could write an essay on the different types of situation that would provoke a different response. Can you give us a clue what your agenda is so that I can perhaps pick a scenario that fits in

How about the three I mention in the question above.

Someone makes the stevie williams comment at your club dinner.

You are playing with someone who was defeated by a black member - and who felt hard done by in terms of gamesmanship - a few days ago in the club matchplay comp.  During the conversation you are having with them while playing in a medal they make the same remarks as Garcia did about woods.

Standing on the first tee with a few groups waiting to go out a fellow member tells a similar tale to Elk's tweet, that all waiting can hear, and uses the P word to describe people of potential Pakistani decent.

I look forward to your three essay responses.

Steve Williams comment....I guess an uncomfortable silence would ensue. I wouldn't get up and leave the function but if that person offered to buy me a drink later I'd refuse.

The post matchplay scenario...I doubt very much if the sore loser would hypothetically offer to cook fried chicken during any conversation. But if the description of the winner lurched into abusive racist name calling then yeah I'd confront.

Tale telling on the first tee...probably do nothing, why get involved before the start of a round that you've been looking forward to all week. Having said that if there was a person of Asian descent also on the tee then I (and I imagine others in my playing group) would pull him up on what he was saying.

Your reaction could be different in each situation depending on things like mood, timing etc

kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
I don't see why you make such a fuss about the stupidity of players and caddy when golf is institutionally exclusionary, whether of women, ethnic varieties or the working man (or woman); or anchorers.

Far better you start with d1ckhead Dawson, Billy Payne, Hootie Johnson and the Augusta Blowfish.

......and also glossing over the many faults of his favourite player.

jas

It is interesting that you think racism is ok unless the victim is actually present? what logic lead you to that line of reasoning?

Kwini

You are correct in mentioning those men as unpleasant individuals.

but as you will see from the reactions on here we needed worry about those at the top when the rank and file golfer is not convinced that racism, sexism and elitism is a problem.

Flipping it round Mac.

Assuming that you believe these people are racists (implicit in the postings if not explicit), other than coming on here and debating with us the rights and wrongs and associated points of view that we all have as individuals, what have you actually done about it?

Have you written to the relevant tour(s), unions, governing bodies and formally complained requesting bans/sanction etc?

Have you written to the newspapers to express your indignation to the wider world?

Have you confronted the perpetrators through their official channels?

Have you done nothing?

Have you taken other action?

If you have acted other than through posting on forum(s) then fair play, perhaps let us know and report to us what comes of the actions if/when you get a response as I would be interested in that. 

If you have done nothing outside the forum postings then perhaps you should. If you are not so inflamed as to take action, then perhaps the crime is not as heinous in your mind as it is apparently made out to be.

I'm not for a second suggesting it shouldn't be brought up as a topic as it does provoke debate and comment (and by <insert deity> if everybody was the same or stayed quiet on such issues this place would be more dull).

Mac, all you do is ignore any points anyone makes that doesn't fit your view which has been decided upon pre 'debate' and chip in every now and then to say the same thing over and over

Judging by some of the close to the bone stuff you have posted on subjects others might find offensive, i suspect you only put these posts up to stir it up a bit. At best you do feel the way you say you do about race and gender but not about other things and your morale compass is up the spout.

Fair enough, it gets some chat going i guess

McLaren wrote:jas

It is interesting that you think racism is ok unless the victim is actually present?  what logic lead you to that line of reasoning?

Kwini

You are correct in mentioning those men as unpleasant individuals.

but as you will see from the reactions on here we needed worry about those at the top when the rank and file golfer is not convinced that racism, sexism and elitism is a problem.

Jeezo Mac, is it reading or thinking you struggle with???

When have I EVER said racism is OK?? Infact for you to accuse me such I find quite offensive.

If somebody is present who will be directly offended and insulted then of course I have no qualm about standing up for them in that situation. If however (and this is where I expect you'll lose the logic because you appear to get professionally offended on other peoples behalf) nobody is being directly offended then why start a scene, mentally note the situationand what was said and store it for potential future use if required.

MustPuttBetter wrote:Judging by some of the close to the bone stuff you have posted on subjects others might find offensive

people keep accusing me of such but fail to provide any examples. Would you care to?



Rolling

I probably can't convince you over an internet forum, but battling racism means a lot to me and I think it is a massive issue which still effects our society.

Mac, I've already quoted the Lee Westwood incident, and also there was your views on dragging dogs behind a moving car. I don't like dogs either, especially little crappy toy ones.

I was going to cut and paste Super's reply but he's beaten me to it. Surprise surprise you chose to ignore it. Predictable really

So the only example that exists is the lee westwood looking like someone with down syndrome?

which by the way, may be a fact, so what does it matter if it offends anyone?

I am happy to offend most people, you've no right not to be offended by something, but I draw the line at race.

McLaren wrote:

MustPuttBetter wrote:Judging by some of the close to the bone stuff you have posted on subjects others might find offensive

people keep accusing me of such but fail to provide any examples.  Would you care to?



Rolling

I probably can't convince you over an internet forum, but battling racism means a lot to me and I think it is a massive issue which still effects our society.

Admirable stance. Opinion noted Mac - thanks. 

So, as asked, what have you done about these instances given battling racism means a lot to you ?

I picked "other" because there wasn't an option for "Give them one of my withering looks, implying they're a bit of a d1ck"

I didn't pick "question thier (sic) behaviour..." because I'm not a d1ck

Mac why don't you tell us which offensive comments are acceptable and which aren't?

Racially offensive comments are a no no
Disabilities are fair game

Got that so far
What else?

McLaren wrote:So the only example that exists is the lee westwood looking like someone with down syndrome?

which by the way, may be a fact, so what does it matter if it offends anyone?

So why are you glossing over your role in Dog-gate...which effectively split the board asunder.

Roller_Coaster wrote:

Admirable stance. Opinion noted Mac - thanks. 

So, as asked, what have you done about these instances given battling racism means a lot to you ?

Self-flagellated with a rolled up copy of the Guardian.. without first reading it of course.

No, disabilities are not fair game. What makes you think they are?

In my opinion the following people are fair game:

Gingers,
Fat people,
Scottish people,
Religious people.

JAS wrote:

McLaren wrote:So the only example that exists is the lee westwood looking like someone with down syndrome?

which by the way, may be a fact, so what does it matter if it offends anyone?

So why are you glossing over your role in Dog-gate...which effectively split the board asunder.

Because he ignores the bits he doesn't like.....

JAS wrote:

McLaren wrote:So the only example that exists is the lee westwood looking like someone with down syndrome?

which by the way, may be a fact, so what does it matter if it offends anyone?

So why are you glossing over your role in Dog-gate...which effectively split the board asunder.

Dog gate didn't split the board. A few peoples egos did that. Funny when you consider that one of them was a completely mythical persona.

McLaren wrote:No, disabilities are not fair game. What makes you think they are?

Would your comments comparing Westwood to a person with Down's syndrome not be insulting to one or the other or both? It's certainly is a sweeping statement re those with Down's, the kind which is utterly detestable if made in relation to race. No?

super_realist wrote:In my opinion the following people are fair game:

Gingers,
Fat people,
Scottish people,
Religious people.

You forgot the Irish - you love to have a go at the Irish

I do actually.

Bob, he did say fat, ginger and religious though - does that not cover the Irish?

mustputt

No, I don't tend attach much to the way people look. I prefer to make judgements based on who they actually are as a human being.

Dog gate served to weed out the more extreme right wingers on here. For some reason they care only about dog's and not people.

MustPuttBetter wrote:Bob, he did say fat, ginger and religious though - does that not cover the Irish?

No, you have to add in the downs syndrome comparison as well......

MustPuttBetter wrote:Bob, he did say fat, ginger and religious though - does that not cover the Irish?

He missed out heavily armed, but fair enough.

McLaren wrote:mustputt

No, I don't tend attach much to the way people look.  I prefer to make judgements based on who they actually are as a human being.

Dog gate served to weed out the more extreme right wingers on here.  For some reason they care only about dog's and not people.

So right wingers are defined by their liking of dogs?

Why not, seems like they are the sort that donate to dog charities and think the homeless are worthless.

a) ironic considering the points we're making re your Westwood comment

b) doesn't make it any less hilarious that you're happy to insult people in forms you deem acceptable but have such outrage when you deem it unacceptable, which in itself is fine if you didn't then preach about what is right and wrong

MustPuttBetter wrote:a) ironic considering the points we're making re your Westwood comment

b) doesn't make it any less hilarious that you're happy to insult people in forms you deem acceptable but have such outrage when you deem it unacceptable, which in itself is fine if you didn't then preach about what is right and wrong

That makes no sense.

Take a mulligan and go again.