3rd Ashes test Old Trafford

First topic message reminder :

Can't help but feel that the old australian teams of waugh and ponying would have declared by now and backed their bowlers to win the game for them. Admittedly the bowlers were better, but I think we can really see the aussie mentality in delaying the declaration decision. It's ok to say you can't base the decision on the forecast but at 2-0 down it is all or nothing, and they should have gambled earlier.

alfie wrote:

Biltong wrote:

alfie wrote:

Biltong wrote:He was out.

You seem remarkably sure of that , Biltong  

Do you have some inside information the rest of us are missing ?

Suppose there could have been a faint edge , but it really didn't look like it.  Instinct tells me on a cool day like this hotspot would logically have picked up even the faintest of touches ; but I'm not a scientist.

Whatever , umpires make mistakes - always have.  Sometimes at inconvenient times  

Snicko showed the sound of the edge being found. It may have been faint, but it is clear enough not to doubt it.

I don't agree.  Snicko picks up all sorts of noises from what I 've seen lately.  My eyes tell me there was clear air twist bat and ball...I think it was a very doubtful call.

But as I said , I am not complaining anyway.

Logically, given the identikit nature of his edge in the dismissal in the first and second innings, he should have been given not out in one of the two innings.

Ha ha , CJ...good point. They seem to have got him coming and going  

Due a bit of luck in the next game maybe...

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:TMS saying that there was a clear noise and its been confirmed by snicko.  

Why did Hot Spot show nothing?  Shows it can't be trusted.

Hot Spot is official...but cannot be trusted
and Snicko is not official.
can of worms is all that it is:laughing: 

If Root manages to bat out the day will he make 50 runs?

Pietersen was clearly out, I have no problems with that dismissal. Never trust Hotspot is the key.

As for now, England are set to easily ride out the storm. Ashes retained in a few hours!

Bells injuried his thumb

Rain, Phew!!!

Not sure what to think of the KP decision. I did hear a faint noise. but no hot spot , no visual deviation at all.

I am for giving the batters the benefit of doubt ! so I don't think I could have given it out!

However considering hot spot and snicko are so bad (supposedly anyway) why doesn't Hawkeye get on the case

Hawkeye could potentially track the ball and the bat and give us a hawk eye simulation..

Hawk eye is clearly much better at tracking, there isn't even any prediction involved in this method either. so the margin of error would only be what it is as it stands with Tennis and pitching in line etc(which I heard was millimetres!)- well maybe a bit more because it has to track two variables.. but still- the margin of error will clearly be better than LBW prediction because it isnt predicting. It would use its various cameras to place the ball and bat!)

If we get a draw we don't really deserve it

If there is no rain and they only get another two wickets we will deserve it CJ.

If there is more rain and they get another 4 or so wickets then I will accept we are lucky!

mystiroakey wrote:If there is no rain and they only get another two wickets we will deserve it CJ.

If there is more rain and they get another 4 or so wickets then I will accept we are lucky!

What if there's more rain but no more wickets?

erm lucky!

Dependant on the amount of rain off course!

KP_fan wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:TMS saying that there was a clear noise and its been confirmed by snicko.  

Why did Hot Spot show nothing?  Shows it can't be trusted.

Hot Spot is official...but cannot be trusted
and Snicko is not official.
can of worms is all that it is:laughing: 

Got to agree with you.

Botham missing the point as many others do about the Howler..

Tech isnt needed for howlers!!(only replays!)

Hawkeye, skicko and hot spot are there to help with marginal decsions!

So if DRS is all about getting rid of the howler- Why the heck are we using all this tech!

If we had no tech and the umpires only over turned holwers then players would only appeal on howlers!!


I am not in the howler camp, i want all desicions- marginal or howler corrected (well as many as we possibly can anyway)..

But the holwer camp need to understand the contradiction that tech brings up!

I don't really understand the frothing of the mouth about the DRS we seem to get amongst cricket fans, commentators, players etc

It's quite simple. Any system is not 100% perfect. Fpr isntance they don't use 'hawk-eye' at Tennis's French Open, simply because the mark on the clay is 100% perfect

The hot spot doesn't show every single mark, because it relies on heat differential caused by the friction as the ball passes the bat, i.e. hence the the name. So a faint nick might not show up as it's frictional forces are low

So they then back up such calls, with whether there was a noise or not

KP's dismissal was perfect umpiring all round. The Umpire thought it was out and was proved with the system

As I say it's not perfect, but it's at least as good as the old system and will improve

"KP's dismissal was perfect umpiring all round. The Umpire thought it was out and was proved with the system

As I say it's not perfect, but it's at least as good as the old system and will improve"

the system proved nothing- infact it disproved it- no spot on hot spot(not saying it wasnt out mind- but thats not the point). I think since trotts overturn 3rd umpires have probally been told to not overturn a decision that is 50/50- basically give the on field Umpire the benefit of the doubt(the way umpires call works on lbw's)

Now I am not a fan of this- but it is consitant. So if this continues and we dont ever get an other crazy Trott decison then at least we have moved forward!

that rain is becoming more organised, looking at the radar, id say this game is over

Scrumpy wrote:If Root manages to bat out the day will he make 50 runs?

haha, ive posted on facebook that root should make his half century by next weekend

I think Root has done well today. I don't care how many he's made as he has soaked up almost half the deliveries so far today. The other half have accounted for 3 wickets of much more experienced players.

Damn this rain for stopping England from going 3-0 up!!

I've yet to buy into Root as an opener tbh. Aus have a very good seam attack but he doesn't look all that confident yet. Not sure hes cut out as a test opener, might be better at 4/5 long term.

That said, Bairstow doesn't look a test player period. If England do retain the ashes this test, I don't see a downside in swapping Taylor at 6.

Time to put the Champers on ice, England retain the Ashes.

 

If England do indeed retain the Ashes here, I don't get the almost sense of shame because we had rain here. We've won the 2 previous tests, one of them by miles. Nothing to apologise for.

Interesting debate on the beeb about home umpires.

Personally I don't see an issue with 1 from England and 1 from Australia. Heck, the current umpires are neutral and they aren't covering themselves in glory. The Ashes is the biggest series in the sport, and the standard of umpiring has not reflected that,

I think most people are forgetting the realty that most tests in England are weather affected..

Just because we had a full 5 days in the two before doesnt mean that its normal.

I think most realise that if you cant get a result in 4 days in england then its more likely you wont get a result.

Its the fact its the third test that will make it seem unjust to aus- But the fact is if they hadnt lost the first two they wouldnt be in this position!

They really 100% should never have declared first innings and maxed there resources! they may then have been able to follow us on and have got the win!

GSC wrote:I've yet to buy into Root as an opener tbh. Aus have a very good seam attack but he doesn't look all that confident yet. Not sure hes cut out as a test opener, might be better at 4/5 long term.

That said, Bairstow doesn't look a test player period. If England do retain the ashes this test, I don't see a downside in swapping Taylor at 6.

He needs to on the front foot better, especially being an opener, getting stuck on the crease is not good against a swinging ball. He's got the temperament for it though, which is good. Technical faults can be ironed out over time.

Agree on Bairstow. Had loads of chances to make a big impression now, and hasn't really. Taylor had one in a warm up and took it. Think he deserves a shot

I don't get this idea that we should all want the Aussies to win this one. I grew up in the 90's and honestly used to wonder if we would ever win the Ashes in my lifetime again such was the gulf between the sides and the way the Aussies kept churning out great players.

So I am enjoying giving some back and now want 4-0 not a close, exciting series! And I will take the rain saving us in this Test all day!

I think people want them to win because aus deserve the win. but actually do they?

no probally not..

guildfordbat wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:well its forecast for rain all day and has been lashing it down all morning, i'll repeat that ill be surprised if any play gets going today

Compelling and rich - you did me and my subsequent posts up like a kipper there!  

i was surprised when it cleared up and they got 20 overs!! but never doubt the Manchester weather

Why is root getting stick. Isnt he the only batsman to have done his job so far today??

mystiroakey wrote:I think people want them to win because aus deserve the win. but actually do they?

no probally not..

Yes there is that and this whole "for the good of the series" thing. I doubt any Aussies wanted us to win the third Test in 06/07 and rightfully so!

Yep us Brits are tame in these situations. Allways trying to say we dont deserve it, or they played better.. It isnt the same when it comes to other countries fans! They just want to win!

The Ashes, in her rightful place.

23 August 2009 - Present day

That's 1444 days and counting. Long may she remain in England's Green and Pleasant Land, the home of cricket!

  

So we've held the Ashes for 4 years. The Aussies had them for 16, but of course we should be feeling sorry for them and let them win them back. Wouldn't be surprised if Aggers BBC column rambles along these lines later (does he even support England?!)

On the off-chance that he's reading this, this is for you Michael Clarke:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTPNhNZSWFs

Funnily enough if we win this series then both countries will have won 31 series each with 5 drawn. Even more spookily it will be 17 series won by both at home and 14 won by both away.
But Oz have won 123 tests to England's 100.

oh the Aussie win is on hold then.  They surely had this. The game was a classic bat first and win and perfectly set for them so the rain is a shame.

But then rain had been coming and yet Clark batted on. I know you can't risk it really but having seen it all day yesterday I think he should have rolled the dice and declared much earlier.

England were struggling.  I think they have to look at dropping Bairstow and bring in a better option there.  Maybe even Compton and put Root back to 6 or Taylor at 6.

 Strange to see Trott suddenly getting in so much trouble too.


Having said that, not far off 400 in the second was a sign they are a lot better than their darkest days.  That team wouldn't have been contesting on day 5.  Makes me laugh when Alec Stewart is knocking these batsmen.  That lot have forgotten how bad they were.

Diggers wrote:Funnily enough if we win this series then both countries will have won 31 series each with 5 drawn. Even more spookily it will be 17 series won by both at home and 14 won by both away.
But Oz have won 123 tests to England's 100.

Alot of draws in England could be the reason-But yeah thats freaky!

Agree on the comments on Bairstow, looks like he could get out at any time. Needs to play some cricket and get back into form. So what about Ravi for the next Test  

VTR wrote:Agree on the comments on Bairstow, looks like he could get out at any time. Needs to play some cricket and get back into form.  So what about Ravi for the next Test  

Gotta be Taylor, if anyone, surely?

Ravi adds bowling and has not let Eng down of late but he's struggled in tests.

Same team for Durham? Yes, probably.

Yes of course, Ravi wasn't a serious suggestion. Good in ODIs but too loose outside off stump in Tests. Would be a walking wicket for accurate line bowlers like Siddle and Harris.

So I agree on Taylor at 6 for the next one.

This from the bbc

"
We will have another inspection at 1700 BST. And it will take the ground staff approximately 90 minutes to get the ground ready once it's stopped raining. (Which it hasn't). So whether or not Australia get back on the field, it's looking increasingly unlikely they'd have time to bowl England out. Ashes coming home?
"

Could they really play again at 18:30?  How long for?  I suspect light would come into it let alone rain.

 and 5 minutes after that the BBC confirmed they abandoned it.   So Eng retain.   Bit of fortune right there.   If it had held off of course it was Clarke with the good fortune to have these horrible conditions to bowl in.  It was a match winning coin toss for sure.  Overall a good test and these teams look even to me.  Expecting Aussie to win it back at home with more of their top seamers apparently coming back in (Cummings has been mentioned for one).

Play officially abandoned. England retain the Ashes. Want the series win now.

All over. Australia manage to triumphantly dominate this Test from first ball to last and still not win it.

"England have secured the series after just three matches for only the second time in history, the previous occasion being 1928-29."

Thanks to Cricinfo.

they had such perfect conditions and Clarke fired then they bowled well enough.  Do that and they are dangerous.

any risk eng were a bit complacent coming into this as press suggested?  I don't think so to be honest, I think aussie just batted really well.

Well, it is what it is.

Australia outplayed in the first two tests which could well have been rain effected but wasn't.

You could call this an escape for England, but that is just how the cookie crumbles, on another day it saves Australia.