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5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August

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Post by LondonTiger Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:03 pm

With England having won the series, I wonder what changes we will see to the teams.

England
The batting, barring Ian Bell, is misfiring. Too many times batsmen are getting in, but getting out for cameo scores. Prior is struggling a little with bat and gloves, but as the new boy and without a big innings, Jonny Bairstow is most at risk.
The wickets have been shared amongst the bowlers. Onions was unlucky to miss out at Chester-le-Street, but having now broken a finger is ruled out for two weeks. Monty's well publicised indiscretion will not endear him to the management and Steven Finn will probably be left to regain form and confidence with Middlesex. On his own ground, Chris Tremlett may get a run out, especially if they feel that Anderson or Broad need a rest.

all in all I suspect that changes are unlikely.


Australia
The good news is that they may have found an opening pair. The bad news is that the middle order is desperately fragile unless skipper Clarke scores runs. Khawaja and Smith are both batting at least two positions too high and unless he is able to bowl, Shane Watson looks a waste of a spot. Possible chances of recalls for Hughes or Cowan at 3 - and consideration has to be given to Faulkner lower down as an all-rounder.
Bowling has stood up well, but in another horses for course selection we may well see Starc replace Bird. Australia will be desperate for Harris to stay fit.




England have not played very well so far, especially the batters, yet are 3-0 up. Australia have shown they can compete but seem unable to win, even against a faltering team. If England can actually play well we could see a real thumping, but the money men at Ca will hope their team can sneak a win to create interest for the return series.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:05 pm

Apparently England have never won 4 tests in a home Ashes series, so they may never get a better chance than this one. Australia are there for the taking!

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:43 pm

Don't think England'll make many, if any, changes. Might rest Anderson to give Tremlett a run out might, possibly, give Taylor a bat, but I doubt it.
Australia may bring Hughes back or give Wade a go, possibly at the expense of Khawaja and/or Watson. They might bring Starc back as well, for Bird although, if it's likely to spin at the Oval, and if Watson's fit to bowl, might they risk giving Agar another shot?

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Post by VTR Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:23 pm

I would like to see England make some changes but don't think they will. There is a bit of a gap between Tests so they will probably feel Anderson will be ok and also give Bairstow one last chance (though I don't think pressure-free runs would prove much)

For Aus, they can do all the chopping and changing with the batting but it won't realistically improve things. Bringing in Hughes for example would just be re-instating a guy dropped for poor performances!

On the bowling front they should really not risk Harris now, they badly need him for the Winter. If Agar plays you would feel it would be for his batting more than his bowling which is pretty innocuous.

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Post by Guest Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:44 pm

I don't want any changes, bar resting Anderson for a Test and giving Tremlett a run out.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:55 pm

If I'm Australia I would bring back Starc for Bird, not only because I wasn't overly impressed with Bird bowling wise, but Starc is a handy bat as well.

England won't make any changes I doubt, only one I'd make would be Bairstow for Taylor, but I guess he should be given one last shot
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Post by trebellbobaggins Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:12 pm

Not sure about this warning from the coach.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/23681435
 
Could fire them up, could make them so scared they fail completely.

agree on the eng batting above and mostly the aussie.  The not sure on opening pair.  Just note sure Rogers can ride that luck every time like that.  Warner looks solid though.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:24 pm

Khawaja is not good enough. He didn't exactly excel at Derbyshire last year in County Champ Div 2 last year, and bar an innings here, he's look out of his depth. He got what about 400 runs last Aussie summer? At best he is number 6, he is never ever going to be good enough for number 3.

Someone like that Klinger playing for Gloucs would be a better bet, he also got Aussie domestic player of the year last year I think
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Post by msp83 Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:49 pm

With a bit of a break in between, England are unlikely to change too much around. If they had lost the last game, then Bairstow's position might have been in danger, but the win give them a bit more space to stick with him, they would have picked him seeing something special, they might not give up on that so easily. As for young Joe, he's a terrific player, but is struggling just a little bit at the top of the order. I just hope he plays his natural positive game, that would be the way to recover his touch I feel.
Since Onions is out, they are unlikely to rest Anderson, who doesn't usually fancy being rested from test matches.

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Post by msp83 Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:52 pm

For Australia, Phil Hughes has only one thing going for him, he's a bit of a favorite with the skipper. Otherwise he just isn't international class and it is an investment that has gone bust. Khawaja hasn't done the job either, and I would say if they are thinking of a change, then bring Cowan back in, he at least offers some decent stickability at the wicket. And if Watson isn't fit to bowl, then they have to bring Faulkner in, Harris can't be risked in a 4 man attack. And Mitchell Starc should be back in for Jackson Bird.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:04 pm

msp83 wrote:For Australia, Phil Hughes has only one thing going for him, he's a bit of a favorite with the skipper. Otherwise he just isn't international class and it is an investment that has gone bust. Khawaja hasn't done the job either, and I would say if they are thinking of a change, then bring Cowan back in, he at least offers some decent stickability at the wicket.
How about playing Wade as a specialist batsman? (Or, indeed, Haddin, and play Wade as 'keeper)

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Post by trebellbobaggins Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:20 pm

Reckon they will bring back Johnson down under?

He was good at his home ground last time.

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Post by msp83 Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:30 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:
msp83 wrote:For Australia, Phil Hughes has only one thing going for him, he's a bit of a favorite with the skipper. Otherwise he just isn't international class and it is an investment that has gone bust. Khawaja hasn't done the job either, and I would say if they are thinking of a change, then bring Cowan back in, he at least offers some decent stickability at the wicket.  
How about playing Wade as a specialist batsman? (Or, indeed, Haddin, and play Wade as 'keeper)
They both are decent wicketkeeper bats, but I don't think neither are capable of offering much more than the others in terms of specialist bats. Smith is a handy parttime bowler and a very good fielder despite that rather ridiculous drop in the last game, and Watson is, regardless of his down time in test cricket is a handy all-round option. Neither Wade nor Haddin have the technique or even for that matter the temperament to be good enough at number 3.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:35 pm

msp83 wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:
msp83 wrote:For Australia, Phil Hughes has only one thing going for him, he's a bit of a favorite with the skipper. Otherwise he just isn't international class and it is an investment that has gone bust. Khawaja hasn't done the job either, and I would say if they are thinking of a change, then bring Cowan back in, he at least offers some decent stickability at the wicket.  
How about playing Wade as a specialist batsman? (Or, indeed, Haddin, and play Wade as 'keeper)
They both are decent wicketkeeper bats, but I don't think neither are capable of offering much more than the others in terms of specialist bats. Smith is a handy parttime bowler and a very good fielder despite that rather ridiculous drop in the last game, and Watson is, regardless of his down time in test cricket is a handy all-round option. Neither Wade nor Haddin have the technique or even for that matter the temperament to be good enough at number 3.
Move Watson to 3? Wade/Haddin at 6?

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Post by msp83 Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:58 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:
msp83 wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:
msp83 wrote:For Australia, Phil Hughes has only one thing going for him, he's a bit of a favorite with the skipper. Otherwise he just isn't international class and it is an investment that has gone bust. Khawaja hasn't done the job either, and I would say if they are thinking of a change, then bring Cowan back in, he at least offers some decent stickability at the wicket.  
How about playing Wade as a specialist batsman? (Or, indeed, Haddin, and play Wade as 'keeper)
They both are decent wicketkeeper bats, but I don't think neither are capable of offering much more than the others in terms of specialist bats. Smith is a handy parttime bowler and a very good fielder despite that rather ridiculous drop in the last game, and Watson is, regardless of his down time in test cricket is a handy all-round option. Neither Wade nor Haddin have the technique or even for that matter the temperament to be good enough at number 3.
Move Watson to 3? Wade/Haddin at 6?
Australia seem to be looking to Watson to play more of an all-rounder role. From that point of view, it is better to have him batting in the middle order. He scored some runs at 6 only in the last game.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:05 pm

msp83 wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:
msp83 wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:
msp83 wrote:For Australia, Phil Hughes has only one thing going for him, he's a bit of a favorite with the skipper. Otherwise he just isn't international class and it is an investment that has gone bust. Khawaja hasn't done the job either, and I would say if they are thinking of a change, then bring Cowan back in, he at least offers some decent stickability at the wicket.  
How about playing Wade as a specialist batsman? (Or, indeed, Haddin, and play Wade as 'keeper)
They both are decent wicketkeeper bats, but I don't think neither are capable of offering much more than the others in terms of specialist bats. Smith is a handy parttime bowler and a very good fielder despite that rather ridiculous drop in the last game, and Watson is, regardless of his down time in test cricket is a handy all-round option. Neither Wade nor Haddin have the technique or even for that matter the temperament to be good enough at number 3.
Move Watson to 3? Wade/Haddin at 6?
Australia seem to be looking to Watson to play more of an all-rounder role. From that point of view, it is better to have him batting in the middle order. He scored some runs at 6 only in the last game.
Yeah you're probably right. Just that, if Khawaja IS replaced, they haven't really got many options to bat at 3 other than Cowan or Hughes, neither of whom would exactly fill you with confidence.
Of course, if Watto ISN'T fit to bowl, they could move him up the order and bring in Faulkner as the all-rounder.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:06 pm

For England I feel they will go unchanged. Yup Taylor deserve a chance in place of Baristow. Though they will not experiment with opening but I feel a change is required there. Root no doubt a future but still opening seems difficult for him.
If we look at Australia, they are surely wanting a winning combo. One positive sign is their opening. Khwaja has not shown the temperament as a no. 3 batsman. Cowan should be back. I feel watson and smith should exchange their position. Haddin deserve one more chance. He was excellent behind the wickets. Regarding Harris he needs a special care as for the first time he has played three consecutive test matches. Bird and starc have shown similar type performance but still starc is ahead in batting. Spinners will not get much help here at Oval so I feel Ashton should be given a chance as a no. 8 batsman.
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Post by Duty281 Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:07 pm

I doubt the selectors will make many changes for the final Test, but I hope we go with this XI:

Cook, Root, Trott, Ballance, Bairstow, Taylor, Prior, Broad, Swann, Finn, Onions/Tremlett.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:14 pm

Duty281 wrote:I doubt the selectors will make many changes for the final Test, but I hope we go with this XI:

Cook, Root, Trott, Ballance, Bairstow, Taylor, Prior, Broad, Swann, Finn, Onions/Tremlett.
I don't find reqson of dropping Bell. He has a chance of equalling the record of four centuries in a series.
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Post by Hoggy_Bear Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:17 pm

5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August 1157611_10151800159014841_1761027099_n

Not there now, but pretty funny.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:26 pm

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I doubt the selectors will make many changes for the final Test, but I hope we go with this XI:

Cook, Root, Trott, Ballance, Bairstow, Taylor, Prior, Broad, Swann, Finn, Onions/Tremlett.
I don't find reqson of dropping Bell. He has a chance of equalling the record of four centuries in a series.
Rotate, not drop. He deserves a break, and I'd love to see Ballance given a go.

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Post by msp83 Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:41 pm

So has Ballance given up for good on Zimbabwe cricket? What a terrible shame!.

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Post by jimbohammers Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:33 am

Cook, Trott, Taylor, Pieterson, Bell, Root, Prior, Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Tremlett

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Post by Gregers Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:09 pm

Would it not be worth us bringing in Taylor, Woakes, Briggs (used as examples so could be other members of the lions) to get them experience? Rest kp, Anderson, Swann for a game which doesn't matter then have them back fit for the ashes down under/prepare their successors?

Cook
Root
Trott
Taylor
Bell
X - another fringe player
Bairstow (WK)
Bresnan
Broad
Woakes
Briggs

Rest: Kp (flower said we needed to manage his workload), Anderson (would surely appreciate a rest/pointless risking him), swann (see Anderson), prior (out of form and we need bairstow as back up wickie for tour of oz later this year)

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Post by Gregers Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:11 pm

For woakes read tremlett, not sure why I put woakes!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:13 pm

It's all well and good saying rest these players, but do they want to be rested? Do they heck. This is an Ashes series and they've got a chance of making history at The Oval if they win 4-0. They'd be some serious anger amongst Swann/Anderson and co if they were dropped
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Post by Gregers Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:17 pm

It would benefit us in the long run though, you can't deny that

Tremlett has to play regardless, bairstow instead of prior with the gloves and bring in Taylor (coming from a huge Matty p fan!)

Kp, Anderson, swann get kept in. Bresanan misses out?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:19 pm

Keep the side unchanged I say.

Why break up a winning team?

Those players you mentioned should be breaking into the side on merit, not because we fancy giving some players a rest (which is what the ODI's/T20's are mainly used for anyways)
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Post by Gregers Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:23 pm

Taylor has scores tons of div 1 runs this season...

We shouldnt use t20 or odi to bleed in players for tests, that's just thick really. Different formats, different squads I say.

Prior missing out would be justified, he has been poor all round this season (very unlike him)

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:26 pm

Taylor for Bairstow would be the only change I would advocate (I should've stated that).

Prior's just going through a bad spell, he'll come back to form soon. Quality players do. And in any case I don't think Bairstow has done anything to justify keeping his place ahead of him
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Post by Gregers Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:30 pm

Don't get me wrong I rate prior highly but its either him or bairstow to make way for taylor , for me going with bairstow could be the last chance saloon for him. Perform and we'll take you as back up wickie, if not then maybe as a backup batsman but Taylor is better

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Post by Duty281 Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:41 pm

At the very least, Anderson needs to be rested. He hasn't appeared to be fully fit since his heroics at Trent Bridge.

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Post by DouglasJardinesbox Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:13 am

JB has scored more than Trott and Cook. Drop them as well. Current form and all that. Or leave them all alone.

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Post by dummy_half Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:41 am

As with the last couple of matches, for all our speculation of changes I think we'll be unchanged unless someone has a niggle. Only thing I would say is that as this is the last Test of an already-won series, I'd be inclined to rest any of the seamers for even the slightest niggly injury - the sort of thing that they would play through normally. More important now that they are fully fit and firing in time for the reverse series.

As for the Aussies, I think Starc obviously comes back in for Bird - strengthens the lower order batting and looks a more threatening bowler. Other than that, it's really a lot of guesswork - Cowan back of Khawaja at 3? Hughes for either Smith or Watson at 5-6? Wade for Haddin? Do any of these changes really add to the strength of the side? All the batting options have been tried and largely found wanting...

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Post by Guest Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:02 am

Duty281 wrote:At the very least, Anderson needs to be rested. He hasn't appeared to be fully fit since his heroics at Trent Bridge.
This is the only change I want. If he gets an injury this summer and can't tour Australia, we go into the next Ashes with an unfamiliar bowling line-up. Now that the Ashes are won, let's give him a one-Test rest and give his likely replacement a game. Either Finn or Tremlett (I'd prefer Tremlett).

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Post by GSC Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:44 pm

Bresnan has a stress fracture in his lower back and will miss the rest of the season
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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:08 pm

GSC wrote:Bresnan has a stress fracture in his lower back and will miss the rest of the season
So will Finn be back? He has to be for sure!.

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Post by alfie Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:21 am

msp83 wrote:
GSC wrote:Bresnan has a stress fracture in his lower back and will miss the rest of the season
So will Finn be back? He has to be for sure!.
Maybe. But I suspect it will be Tremlett.

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Post by ShankyCricket Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:38 am

msp83 wrote:
GSC wrote:Bresnan has a stress fracture in his lower back and will miss the rest of the season
So will Finn be back? He has to be for sure!.
Really? His control is shocking.

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Post by dummy_half Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:19 am

Bad news for Bres after a very solid match last week. Onions out and Finn not really coming back to great form, I think Tremlett has to come back in to see how he goes before the away series squad is named.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:34 am

Tremlett and Kerrigan to be in the squad I suspect, with Tremlett playing.

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Post by msp83 Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:49 am

ShankyCricket wrote:
msp83 wrote:
GSC wrote:Bresnan has a stress fracture in his lower back and will miss the rest of the season
So will Finn be back? He has to be for sure!.
Really? His control is shocking.
90 wickets in 23 tests at an average less than 30 and a fine strike rate of 48 isn't bad at all for a 'Lad with Shocking Control'!. Bresnan could be a reliable control option who can chip in with a few handy wickets, but Finn is a match-winner. He doesn't have Mitchell Johnson like control issues either, just that the recent management imspired tinkering with his run-up hasn't worked out for him. He has been among the wickets for his county since being dropped, and Chris Tremlett isn't quite trusted by even his county side to keep fit with a demanding workload as they are still carefully managing him even while playing in List A games. Graeme Onions is out injured as well, and James Anderson and Stuart Broad have had 4 demanding tests, England won't be able to manage Tremlett in a 4 man attack the way Surrey are managing him.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:08 am

Sad for Bres. He was doing well.

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Post by Guest Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:31 am

10 wickets in 3 Tests, I'm sure even Finn could top that. Of course, it's a shallow way to look at Bres's contributions, especially after his batting heroics, but I really want Finn or Tremlett to play this last Test.

And this means we can't afford to rest Anderson now Sad

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5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August Empty Re: 5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August

Post by VTR Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:34 am

Was going to make the same point as msp. I don't see how Tremlett can play in a 4 man attack with Anderson and Broad as there is no-one there who can be the "workhorse" with both of those 2 having bowled a lot of overs already.

I think Tremlett will be in the squad as that just seems to be how it is with a view to the away series, but would not be surprised to see a seamer other than Finn in there (as Finn is out of favour) - time for Woakes maybe?

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Post by msp83 Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:41 am

VTR wrote:Was going to make the same point as msp. I don't see how Tremlett can play in a 4 man attack with Anderson and Broad as there is no-one there who can be the "workhorse" with both of those 2 having bowled a lot of overs already.

I think Tremlett will be in the squad as that just seems to be how it is with a view to the away series, but would not be surprised to see a seamer other than Finn in there (as Finn is out of favour) - time for Woakes maybe?
Don't think they would have been all that impressed by Woakes in the ODIs though we could always say test cricket is different from ODI and all that. But the problem I found with Woakes was that his pace wasn't up to the level where he could consistently trouble quality batsmen and his 'Control' wasn't great either in the ODIs.
Think if they continue to undermine Finn, they might go for Rankin.

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Post by VTR Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:57 am

Rankin is a good shout - I could actually see that happening moreso than Woakes.

Personally I would like to see Finn back but he does seem to be out of form and favour. I would like to see him backed as he has all the attributes to be a world beater, there are not really any other English bowlers with his gifts. If he can get his control back, and he was very good at one point, there is a great bowler in the making.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:02 am

I suspect it will be Finn. They sent him away to get some county overs under his belt, this is probably to time for him to come back and show he's regained his form/confidence
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Post by Fists of Fury Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:05 am

Amazing how Finn becomes such an incredible bowler when he is out of the side...

Are you forgetting that he has a brainless approach to bowling, with an inability to pitch it up despite ball after ball being dropped in short and dispatched to the boundary?

Ok, perhaps a tad harsh, but that is exactly what he was doing at Trent Bridge. One of the worst bowling performances by someone in an England shirt for many a year.

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Post by VTR Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:16 am

Fists of Fury wrote:Amazing how Finn becomes such an incredible bowler when he is out of the side...

Are you forgetting that he has a brainless approach to bowling, with an inability to pitch it up despite ball after ball being dropped in short and dispatched to the boundary?

Ok, perhaps a tad harsh, but that is exactly what he was doing at Trent Bridge. One of the worst bowling performances by someone in an England shirt for many a year.
That is fair re Trent Bridge. I remember texting a few people who were in the ground at the time and I did use the phrase "Donkey Finn" in those messages!

So I'm not expecting him to come back with a world beating display, but would like to see him in the side now the series is won and start to reintegrate him into the team and hopefully rebuild that form and confidence.

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