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Haye v Fury - Evidence shows that Fury has a great chance !!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:06 am

Look at Haye's wins at heavy................Looked stunning against the 6ft Chisora.............Looked imposing beating the 6ft 5 inch Audley but then again mcguigan would have looked imposing against a non punching bottler too..........

However supersized heavyweights like Wlad and valuev Haye looked anything but...........In fact he hardly engaged with them both.......

How many punches did Valuev throw at Haye and he lost by a very slim margin.....Hardly any...He didn't need to because Haye didn't engage more than sporadically...why because he was intimidated by Valuev's size..........

The other big guy Wlad more of the same only worse...........Haye was intimidated and basically bottled it...............

Wlad is 6ft 8 and 255 +..........

Valuev a non threatening giant is even bigger..........

Those fights show Haye respects size and as Fury is 6ft 9 and 255 +...........Then facts dictate that Haye will be in awe again.........It's in his DNA..

We also know Haye doesn't take a shot too well either and that If Fury lands it's over !!!!

Haye also has 16 months ring rust to figure in too.........

People look to the Chisora demolition and Audley as reasons to dismiss Fury's challenge....BUT IT'S FOLLY because Haye wouldn't have cause to be intimidated by them.........and Haye is a bully..

Best to look at Valuev and Wlad as a true barometer of the fight........Fury will intimidate Haye his size alone dictates that.............Can he follow through ?????

Who knows but it's crazy to rule Fury out.........Haye has speed but he did against Valuev...........and he refused to let his hands go......

Fury has a great chance..Forget Chis and Audley those wins are irrelevant..

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Post by Boxtthis Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:23 am

I don't agree with the Fury/Wlad example at all, because Wlad is so much better than Fury in so many facets of the game that there's no real comparison other than them both being big guys.

But, the Valuev fight might offer some insight. Haye fought scared that night, and - with Tyson being of a similar size to Valuev - there is a chance that Haye will try to do the same pot-shot tactics again. God knows Haye doesn't want to be on the ropes and have Fury lean on him, or worse, line him up for a right hand with a forearm in the face. So, yes, I think there's a chance that we'll see Haye trying something similar to the Valuev fight (I hope not though).

But the thing is, Fury is more mobile than Valuev (Frankenstein is more mobile than Valuev I suppose) and is likely to pressure Haye more often if he tried the hit and run stuff. People often forget how razor thin Haye's win over Valuev was, and if Valuev had landed just a few more punches he could've easily won. Fury could do the same.

I hope we see some aggression from Haye. Ultimately, I think we will. Fury is so easy to hit, and is so much slower, that Haye really should KO him.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:26 am

You not think the fact they both are big guys is comparison enough...........

What does it matter If fury doesn't fight like Wlad...If his size is enough to intimidate..

Which is the whole purpose of the article....

If Fury can intimidate him long enough to land a big shot then we have an upset..

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Post by AlexHuckerby Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:28 am

Thing is in both of those fights he caught Valuev big and he caught Wlad a couple of times, Fury doesn't have a chin in my view after being decked by two no punchers and wobbled about by a fat Chisora who isn't exactly a huge hitter himself. Fury has terrible defence and you have to think Haye has a great chance to land a big counter right on him. To Haye's credit he showed against Wlad that he has some form of a chin, took a few flush right hands and wasn't wobbled once also, so I don't think Fury can land just anything to take him out and he's never really struck me as a puncher either, though when you're that size I guess if you land your best you'll knock a guy out.

I'd say he has a punchers chance against Haye, but not a great chance personally.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:36 am

Everyone get hit in fights Mate even mayweather...........

The less likely to engage Haye is the more time Fury gets to land......16 months ring rust also could point to timing problems..

Against big opponents Haye is less likely to engage..


Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ...)

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Post by jimdig Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:44 am

Haye sat off Audley too. Was there even a punch landed in the first round? I really hope this fight isn't another stand off stinker.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:48 am

Fury comes forward...Audley backed off exclusively..

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Post by captain carrantuohil Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:53 am

Thing is that by the time Haye fought Wlad, Klitschko was well into his current run of invincibility, having swept aside heavyweights who were much better than the mixture of the feeble, the superannuated and the incompetent on which Haye had been feasting.

I would suggest that it was the combination of size and ability that overawed Haye, for all his pre-fight bombast, which in hindsight can be dismissed as nothing more than whistling past the graveyard. Against a living mummy such as Valuev, Haye's tactics were correct - going to the inside too often would have been ridiculous against a man whose bear-like grapple was virtually his only attacking option.

By contrast Haye clearly got it wrong against Klitschko, whose weakness may be that he really doesn't like intelligently applied pressure. Whether that's true or not, throwing only a dozen punches per round was never going to be sufficient to expose any fallibility that the champion possessed.

Fury, I think, represents a halfway house between Valuev and Klitschko. He is not as wooden as Valuev (mind you, nor was Pinocchio in his original form) and has a basic idea of the rudiments of the sport. However, his record is nothing like as intimidating as Wlad's, his jab nowhere near as authoritative nor his power as concussive. The fear factor, I believe, will be inadequate for preventing Haye from launching attacks as though he means them, rather than retreating and essaying the occasional Hail Mary swipe.

This is bad news for Fury, who has been troubled by far less proficient opponents than Haye, considerably smaller than himself. I'm not convinced that Fury really knows how to utilise his physical advantages, and would not be surprised if the fight is a brief one. If Haye opens up with serious intentions from the opening bell, which, as a heavyweight, I can only recall him doing against Ruiz (even Audley was granted two rounds of exploratory pawing), I believe that Fury will find himself in a world of trouble.


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Post by owen10ozzy Sun 01 Sep 2013, 12:05 pm

Captain as per usual has it spot on!

The key to this fight is whether Fury decides to utilise the advantages he has and that as you point out Truss is size. Yet given the fact that for the vast majority of his career so far Fury hasn't I don't see him doing so here.

The jab for me would be the key to this fight, Wlad showed how to fight against Haye, yet as has been pointed out Tyson's lacks authority and given he couldn't keep Cunningham at bay with it (though he rarely really threw it) I don't see him keeping Haye at bay with it either.

It's all well and good looking at Fury and coming to the conclusion that his sheer shize and frame will intimidate Haye; similar to Valuev and Wlad but then lets flip the coin and look at how Tyson fights.

He often chooses to engage in his fights, throwing the looping right hand, he does this on more than a few occasions without actually setting it up which leaves his left hand low. His footwork as well is questionable in terms of his spacing when coming in and out of attacks...something which Haye will expose very quickly with the manner in which he darts in and out of defence and attack.

Ruiz, Maccarenelli, Chisora, - all 3 of those came to fight in the same way I expect Fury to...and Haye had each and every one of them on queer street before finishing them off.

Audley - A man who whilst of course he didn't engage, had a questionable chin and poor footwork when back tracking. 2 traits which Fury can be accused of having. Again we all know the outcome of that one.

I can see Haye being very cautious in the opening rounds, which Fury will do enough to take just by simply throwing shots. However I fully expect Haye to see the weaknesses in Fury's game by the 3rd and then think he will expose them.

I have said since the fight was made that I see Haye taking him out in 5. I think he does it with a Hayemaker as well...after Tyson throws a lazy jab, shuffles in to throw the right leaving his defence open...taking a huge right from Haye who will be in a slightly ducking/crouched position...goodnight Vienna!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 12:11 pm

I respect the Captain's opinion but he doesn't have it spot on until they fight...

Captain may well be right but Haye for me is intimidated by size..


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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Sun 01 Sep 2013, 1:13 pm

Haye's style of fighting is not suited to bigger men at all. When facing a bigger opponent pot shoting (which is Haye's bread and butter style) is not very effective unless you land that bingo shot. Its always recomended to work the body which I can't remember seeing Haye ever do. Against Wlad Haye would hold on rather then employ some inside fighting and as a consequence he would fall to his knees in an attempt to avoid big shots. Haye was sniffing croch all night.

So I tend to agree with TRUSS that Haye is intimidated by size but I feel it has more to do with his lack of skills as a fighter then all out fear of the bigger man. I fully expect Fury to lean all over Haye when they sit on the ropes.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Sun 01 Sep 2013, 1:15 pm

The child agrees with his father, shock. :P

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Post by Lumbering_Jack Sun 01 Sep 2013, 1:27 pm

The Valuev fight wasn't close, he didn't lay a glove on Haye

Fury is an all together different prospect to a Wlad or Valuev. Yes he is a similar size but that is where the similarities end. Suspect chin and plods forward. The right hand is their to be landed an that's exactly what Haye will do. Haye ko 3.

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Post by OasisBFC Sun 01 Sep 2013, 2:11 pm

Boxtthis wrote:I don't agree with the Fury/Wlad example at all, because Wlad is so much better than Fury in so many facets of the game that there's no real comparison other than them both being big guys.

But, the Valuev fight might offer some insight. Haye fought scared that night, and - with Tyson being of a similar size to Valuev - there is a chance that Haye will try to do the same pot-shot tactics again. God knows Haye doesn't want to be on the ropes and have Fury lean on him, or worse, line him up for a right hand with a forearm in the face. So, yes, I think there's a chance that we'll see Haye trying something similar to the Valuev fight (I hope not though).

But the thing is, Fury is more mobile than Valuev (Frankenstein is more mobile than Valuev I suppose) and is likely to pressure Haye more often if he tried the hit and run stuff. People often forget how razor thin Haye's win over Valuev was, and if Valuev had landed just a few more punches he could've easily won. Fury could do the same.

I hope we see some aggression from Haye. Ultimately, I think we will. Fury is so easy to hit, and is so much slower, that Haye really should KO him.

valuev could have the best chin in history due to having a head the size of a beach ball and he weighs well over 300 pounds. whichever way you look at it, the fight wasn't going to be over soon. rushing in and getting hit from someone 7 stone heavier than you will do you no good at all.

fury is there to be hit and knocked over. i see a quiet few rounds, then it'll open up and turn into a decent fight while it lasts.

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Post by smashingstormcrow Sun 01 Sep 2013, 2:42 pm

I actually think Fury is worse than Valuev. At least Valuev had a fairly snappy jab, and didn't hit himself in the face.

Haye beat Valuev fair and square so why use that against him.

Wlad is way too defensively smart to get hit with one of those power punches which Haye kept trying to throw, but Fury... not so much.


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Post by tunes666 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 3:08 pm

I give fury a chance, Hays win against Chisora was a good finish but if he did not take Chisora out when he did he could have been in trouble as he was looking pretty tired. Ruiz was finished, Audley was useless, Valuev is a rubbish boxer but still kept it close, and Wlad gave him a boxing lesson.

While I dont think Fury can give him a lesson like Wlad did, I think Fury has more balls than Wlad and could get into more of a tare up with Haye, I dont think if Haye lands its all over like some are saying. Haye does not carry his power as much against the bigger guys because he his power comes from his speed, and against the bigger guys he has to lunge in more and looses a bit of his power.

I have always said this is like a 55/45 .. 60/40 fight in Hayes favor but if Fury gets his game plan spot on he is not going to be easy at all. I kind of see Fury doing what I was convinced Audley may do to Haye before he completely let everyone down.

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Post by Strongback Sun 01 Sep 2013, 3:19 pm

I agree with Trussy in that Haye will respect Fury's size. Haye cannot ignore that Fury does have the real potential to seriously hurt him if he connects with a plumb shot. In saying that though I can see nothing other than a Haye win. This fight is more about what Fury ends up doing. Like the leopard Haye will not change his spots and I can't see his M.O. being different to the Valuev/ Wlad fights.

Listening to Peter Fury he has repeated over and over again, through several interviews, that Tyson must not get careless. A mistake at world level can quickly lead to the black lights being switched on. Discipline is the crux on which Fury's chances balance. I believe Fury will fight very conservatively behind a long jab and will try and enact 'his' version of the Wlad blueprint for beating Haye.

Fury, though, has rarely (Johnson) shown ring intelligence and it seems unlikely to me he will be able to help himself from getting in a brawl. The minute Fury tries to turn it into a bar fight is the minute Adam Booth can blow out a sigh of relief. The end won't be long coming.

Fury's only hope is to keep things cagey and survive into the second half of the fight where he might get to demonstrate his stamina.


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It is not possible to replace a boxing glove for the power of words but it's hard to unearth any other sport as essential and pure as boxing. Can Fury intelligently use his punches to tell his own story? Team Fury have to believe they can.


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 3:46 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:The Valuev fight wasn't close, he didn't lay a glove on Haye  

Fury is an all together different prospect to a Wlad or Valuev. Yes he is a similar size but that is where the similarities end. Suspect chin and plods forward. The right hand is their to be landed an that's exactly what Haye will do. Haye ko 3.
He'll have to plant his feet to land it...

one judge had Valuev even....I had it 7-5....and the other two had it 8-4...

Hardly a schooling....considering Valuev threw sack all...It proves my point about big men and Haye..

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Post by Lumbering_Jack Sun 01 Sep 2013, 4:28 pm

What point does it prove? That Haye can beat them (Valuev) or that he can lose to them (Wlad)... The judges clearly had a nightmare if one scored it even.

Genuinely shocked people think this will be competitive. I'll eat my hat if it goes past 4.

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Post by Strongback Sun 01 Sep 2013, 4:43 pm

I thought the Haye v Value was close because nothing happened.

That fight put a lot of casual's off picking up another PPV with Haye in it but not as much as the Wlad non event.

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Post by Lance Sun 01 Sep 2013, 4:52 pm

I agree with Truss that Haye will be slightly intimidated when he first feels Furys weight and size lean over him. I don't think Haye ever intended to be so negative against Wlad, but he just didn't have the self belief to plant his feet infront of him having realised how strong he was. but unlike Valuev, Fury can be hurt easily by Haye. (ive said many times Haye didn't rock Valuev, its clear to see Valuev stumbles before the punch lands.) Haye will wait on the outside and not commit himself until he awaits a mistake from Fury. if Fury fights a controlled fight I expect we will go to the judges

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Post by Nico the gman Sun 01 Sep 2013, 5:00 pm

Said it before Haye should emigrate in shame if Fury beats him.

Fury is a big 6ft 9inch heavyweight with no significant boxing skills,poor defence,suspect chin and not a  great puncher, I honestly don't know what people are seeing in him, got to be his size that's triggering peoples imagination.Very average fighter and that's been kind.

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Post by JabMachineMK2 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 8:17 pm

Makes me laugh when Truss says that Haye "bottled it" - I reiterate my previous sentiments in saying we didn't see a very good David Haye that night granted, but we saw a masterful Wlad who had trainer perfectly and didn't let Haye do anything. We can't take away from that, Wlad was amazing. His footwork, his jab was faster, his overall ability to read Haye, everything.

The hyperbole police will be after Truss again for saying what he does, I didn't see an intimidated man against Valuev. Not at all. I saw a guy who was wary of the sheer size, if he was intimidated he wouldn't be in the ring in the first place. We need to show a little more respect in that case. It was a thin decision because Haye found it difficult to reach Valuev properly, and when he did he wobbled him. First person to ever wobble the giant. Valuev has that bone marrow thing where his bones are thicker so hitting him hurts more than it would hitting a normal bloke, so that is some feat to wobble him.

Evidence suggests anyone with a punch can knock down Fury. Small guys, tall guys - doesn't matter. Fact is, Haye is a few levels above any previous Fury opposition and although Cunningham is a good boxer, he clearly wasn't able to muster up the power to finish Fury (who showed decent recovery)

The evidence suggests more so that Haye is a lethal finisher and once he smells blood its all over. Cunningham couldn't because he isn't at that level. Haye is, and Haye will smash him after he's down. Its all in the eyes. Look at Hayes eyes after he's knocked someone down. He wants them out of there.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 8:25 pm

Haye bottled it Mate...........Didn't do anything for twelve rounds except make sure he didn't get stopped...

Of course he threw the odd "Hayemaker"..

You probably think Bonecrusher didn't bottle it either.

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Post by ShahenshahG Sun 01 Sep 2013, 8:38 pm

First person to hurt Valuev was the feather fisted bidenko - in bidenkos third fight no less. Chagaev dealt with Valuev comprehensively and even Grandma Holyfield gave him a run for his money. Valuev is awkward and thats all really. If he's the best barometer then Hayes had it. Chisora is his best win at the heavies and i'd expect the superior talent of Haye to win out but Valuev shouldnt really be used to judge any fighters record as he was a circus freak.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 8:43 pm

He's being used for the purpose of noting Haye's reluctance to engage.....As with Wlad....

Valuev, Wlad and Fury are intimidating presences because of their size....

Perhaps reading the article before posting would be an idea..

Or maybe not post at all.....Not sure anybody would mind either way..

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Post by ShahenshahG Sun 01 Sep 2013, 8:57 pm

Hug Poor truss, are your in laws around? You've been particularly bitchy lately

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 9:01 pm

I was just offering some friendly advice......

Your opinion does interest me..........

sometimes...Cool 

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Post by Strongback Sun 01 Sep 2013, 9:03 pm

Look at the punches that knocked Fury over. He walked hands down square on into an overhand right.

He isn't falling over because he received a concussive blow, its more to do with walking into good punches that knock him off balance. He's clear headed when he gets up.

Fury gets knocked over through stupidity as opposed to him having a glass jaw.


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Post by mikeymax71 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 9:04 pm

Not sure Fury has enough no how to beat Haye right now, no matter his size. Haye will not be one spot long enough for Tyson to lean on and any grappling will only take place when Fury is trying to tie David up after getting caught. If Haye is negative he pot shots his way to a clear UD, or if he is more adventurous I expect a fast start with some flash knock downs in the first couple rounds, before Fury is rescued after 6 rounds

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 9:05 pm

Just quantify that I pick Haye to win....but think Fury has a very good chance..

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Post by Nico the gman Sun 01 Sep 2013, 9:08 pm

Strongback wrote:Look at the punches that knocked Fury over.  He walked hands down square on into an overhand right.

He isn't falling over because he received a concussive blow, its more to do with walking into good punches that knock him off balance.  He's clear headed when he gets up.  

Fury gets knocked over through stupidity as opposed to him having a glass jaw.

Fury got knocked down because his defence is garbage not because he was off balance.

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Post by horizontalhero Sun 01 Sep 2013, 9:11 pm

A sample of two, especially the two in question here isn't a big enough sample to prove your theory for me Truss. I'm not dismissing it out of hand but don't think there's enough evidence; I thought that he was a clear winner against Valveu, and boxed a sensible fight, there simply isn't any evidence to suggest he was intimidated - he just stuck to game plan. Against Wlad the same tactic proved to be wrong, primarily because Wlads jab was very effective and Haye couldn't / wouldn't give a different tactic a go.
If he does the same thing against Fury, I would be more inclined to agree that he doesn't have the inner belief that me can actually fight with a bigger man, but I think that won't be the case here, not that I think that he'll take the fight to Fury, but that he'll have faith in his ability to Ko Fury with Sharp counter punching, and he'll do so at most opportunity he gets, and Fury will not be able to take those shots.
What I do disagree with is your suggestion that if Fury lands, it's over. Wlad is away better puncher than Fury, and Haye never looked like being stopped. Haye is the puncher in this fight, has at least as good a chin, is faster, more athletic, stronger, more skilled, better technician. The only thing that Fury has to trump him is size, and that shouldn't be enough.

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Post by Strongback Sun 01 Sep 2013, 9:15 pm

mikeymax71 wrote:Not sure Fury has enough no how to beat Haye right now, no matter his size. Haye will not be one spot long enough for Tyson to lean on and any grappling will only take place when Fury  is trying to tie David up after getting caught. If Haye is negative he pot shots his way to a clear UD, or if he is more adventurous I expect a fast start with some flash knock downs in the first couple rounds, before Fury is rescued after 6 rounds

You reckon Haye will be using this tactic again then:


Spoiler:

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:07 pm

captain carrantuohil wrote:Thing is that by the time Haye fought Wlad, Klitschko was well into his current run of invincibility, having swept aside heavyweights who were much better than the mixture of the feeble, the superannuated and the incompetent on which Haye had been feasting.

I would suggest that it was the combination of size and ability that overawed Haye, for all his pre-fight bombast, which in hindsight can be dismissed as nothing more than whistling past the graveyard. Against a living mummy such as Valuev, Haye's tactics were correct - going to the inside too often would have been ridiculous against a man whose bear-like grapple was virtually his only attacking option.

By contrast Haye clearly got it wrong against Klitschko, whose weakness may be that he really doesn't like intelligently applied pressure. Whether that's true or not, throwing only a dozen punches per round was never going to be sufficient to expose any fallibility that the champion possessed.

Fury, I think, represents a halfway house between Valuev and Klitschko. He is not as wooden as Valuev (mind you, nor was Pinocchio in his original form) and has a basic idea of the rudiments of the sport. However, his record is nothing like as intimidating as Wlad's, his jab nowhere near as authoritative nor his power as concussive. The fear factor, I believe, will be inadequate for preventing Haye from launching attacks as though he means them, rather than retreating and essaying the occasional Hail Mary swipe.

This is bad news for Fury, who has been troubled by far less proficient opponents than Haye, considerably smaller than himself. I'm not convinced that Fury really knows how to utilise his physical advantages, and would not be surprised if the fight is a brief one. If Haye opens up with serious intentions from the opening bell, which, as a heavyweight, I can only recall him doing against Ruiz (even Audley was granted two rounds of exploratory pawing), I believe that Fury will find himself in a world of trouble.
clap

Excellent Summary

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Post by Lumbering_Jack Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:29 pm

Fury knocked down because he was "off balance".

What a load of nonsense. He has been badly rocked at least 3 times.

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Post by Strongback Mon 02 Sep 2013, 12:06 am

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Fury knocked down because he was "off balance".

What a load of nonsense. He has been badly rocked at least 3 times.
I've never seen Fury's consciousness troubled yet.  He was knocked over by walking square on into a punch with his hands down.  That's different than losing control  of your senses from trauma to the head.  I made that clear the first time I wrote it.

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Post by SugarRayBray Mon 02 Sep 2013, 12:55 am

I agree with Truss - Haye did bottle it against Wlad and is intimidated by size. He knew Harrison inside out and we can hardly count him when analysing this, anyway. I don't get why so many people are predicting an easy Haye KO, this fight is going the distance for sure. These are probably the same people that said Wlad had a glass jaw and that Haye would shatter it. Haye has decent power at heavyweight, but not great - even Audley got to his feet.

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Post by mikeymax71 Mon 02 Sep 2013, 2:40 am

I would not say it's an easy KO for Haye but to beat Haye you have to nullify his power and not let him get off his best shots on you. Fury fights too open and unless his changes his style drastically will get repeatedly tagged and worn down. Haye may not get the clean KO, but will score hard enough and often enough to force the stoppage or score a comfortable decision.

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Post by Rowley Mon 02 Sep 2013, 7:27 am

The nearer this fight gets the more I am beginning to think it could be closer. Think a lot is being made of the Cunningham loss and it is fair to say if Fury allows himself to take shots like in the second off Haye it could spell disaster. However it should not be forgotten his trainer Peter was not with him for that fight and of all the positives Peter does bring to the table curbing Fury's innate desire to throw away the game plan and brawl is perhaps the most important and as Fury showed against Johnson with Peter there he can stick to a game plan.

Think the key for Fury is ensuring this goes late. Looking back at Haye's heavyweight career there is still scant evidence he can do 12 rounds at any kind of pace. Both Wlad and Valuev were positively glaical and you do have to wonder if Haye still has doubts over his stamina. Think if Fury can make this fight at a decent pace and ensure he is stil there at the half way stage it becomes interesting.

The difficultly for Fury is whether he has the skills to keep Haye aweay from him. Unlike Valuev Fury has shown enough weaknesses chin wise to encourage Haye to be a little less cautious and does not have the power Wlad had which will send Haye into his shell for the evening. Guess I would reckon on Haye catching him around the fourth or fifth but if Fury is still there after that point he has a real chance in this one.

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Post by bhb001 Mon 02 Sep 2013, 8:01 am

Strong points, Rowley, especially over Peter Fury. I do remember that the closer the Haye Harrison fight got, more and more people were saying that this could possibly be Audley's time. The point being, we all have a tendancy to hedge our bets the closer it comes to the first bell and this degree of second guessing makes boxing exciting. Do I think Fury has a chance? Yes. If I had a grand to bet on this fight, would I put it on Fury. No.

I'll stick to my earlier prediction of Haye by knock out in 6, as the difference in "class" is to great for me.

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Post by Boxtthis Mon 02 Sep 2013, 9:20 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You not think the fact they both are big guys is comparison enough...........
No, I don't. I think that's a very simplistic argument.

I think it was the combination of size and superior skill (notably footwork and judgement of distance) that made Haye fight the way he did against Wlad. With Fury, that skill isn't there. Audley was a big guy - is he comparable?

Haye will obviously have to respect the fact that Fury can hurt him/smother him, as he would with any bigger man. For me, that's where the Wlad/Fury comparison largely ends.

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Post by Rowley Mon 02 Sep 2013, 9:22 am

Very true bhb and I should add that I would not back Fury with one pound of my own money. However my stance is softening as it gets closer to the fight. If he gets everything right you can see an argument for Fury winning but personally think he lacks the self discipline to get everything he needs to get right in place.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 02 Sep 2013, 9:25 am

Boxtthis wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You not think the fact they both are big guys is comparison enough...........
No, I don't. I think that's a very simplistic argument.

I think it was the combination of size and superior skill (notably footwork and judgement of distance) that made Haye fight the way he did against Wlad. With Fury, that skill isn't there. Audley was a big guy - is he comparable?

Haye will obviously have to respect the fact that Fury can hurt him/smother him, as he would with any bigger man. For me, that's where the Wlad/Fury comparison largely ends.
Well that's then isn't it..............Wlad/Valuev comparison........He didn't engage much with either...

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Post by bhb001 Mon 02 Sep 2013, 9:38 am

Rowley, the arguement is definitely there to be made and Fury has surprised me before when I have predicted that he would be easily beaten. I just don't believe Haye is going to take him as lightly as, say, Chisora did. It will be interesting to see which one turns up the week after their fight to watch Wlad's defence and disrupt his press conference though!!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 02 Sep 2013, 9:41 am

Fact is Mate that the only opponents you can compare Fury with logistically are Valuev and Wlad...

Chisora and Audley were losers who were pretty much the same size......

Whilst Fury isn't in the same skill set as Wlad he is with Valuev and Haye struggled with him..

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Post by Guest Mon 02 Sep 2013, 9:52 am

Many talked about Haye's jump up in class being the difference maker when he lost to Wlad which was a fair assessment. I think the jump up in class for Fury is far greater than anything Haye had to overcome.

There's nothing about Fury to say he's a diamond in the rough unlike the young Mike Tyson. You could see he had to tools and the desire whereas, quite simply,, Fury doesn't. he doesn't punch his weight or utilise the basics well enough.

Haye had a really bad day at the office when he fought Wlad (not going to argue about whether or not is Wlad's tactics that made it a bad day or haye's approach) but I find it impossible to believe he's going to allow that to happen again. The potential humiliation he'd face will be enough to ensure he gets this one right.

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Post by compelling and rich Mon 02 Sep 2013, 9:59 am

still think this will be a one sided blow out in favor of haye, furys defence is poor and he'll walk onto a shot at some point that he wont be able to recover from as haye knows how to finish

if you line up thier attributes the only thing fury has better is size

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 02 Sep 2013, 10:00 am

16 months out..........and 33..........Some deterioration may have set in....for Haye..

When Fury caught Cunningham cheap shot or not.........He went down like he'd been shot..


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Post by compelling and rich Mon 02 Sep 2013, 10:02 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:16 months out..........and 33..........Some deterioration may have set in....for Haye..

When Fury caught Cunningham cheap shot or not.........He went down like he'd been shot..

think haye bit like mayweather wont suffer too badly with this as he clearly keeps himself in shape when not training

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