Are England dodging Samoa?

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Thu 24 Oct 2013, 11:57 pm

Lot's of moans from Samoans on social media how no teams ranked above them are scheduled to play them this season,a lot directed at the All Blacks being world champs in all you would expect it, but what about the richest Union England?
Why don't they play Samoa?
Scared?
Lose to many precious ranking points if they lost?
Prefer a non binding game with Pacific Island 15?
Not enough money in it?

by quinsforever Fri 25 Oct 2013, 1:19 am

by lostinwales Fri 25 Oct 2013, 1:22 am

quinsforever wrote:

I know, - to be fair going by his previous incarnation he can be pretty funny, without, you know, actually meaning to be

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Fri 25 Oct 2013, 7:42 am

I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.

by nathan Fri 25 Oct 2013, 7:45 am

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.

i don't remember Wales having any glory at the World Cup.....

Why don't Wales play Samoa? Wales often put an extra international on to make an extra few pennies, would make sense as clearly Samoa and Wales both need it.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 25 Oct 2013, 7:47 am

Jean-Luc says:- picard

by **Biltong** Fri 25 Oct 2013, 7:49 am

Not sure why Samoa is complaining, they played in a tournament in June in SA against Scotland, Italy and SA.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 25 Oct 2013, 7:54 am

What Samoa are complaining about is that Australia and New Zealand are on their doorstep and yet have never sent a senior tour to the Pacific Islands. But that wouldn't make such a good thread for poor old deluded now would it.

by **Biltong** Fri 25 Oct 2013, 7:58 am

The only team I can recall that recently visited Samoa was Scotland.

So you can blame every other first tier team then, but then you can throw in plenty of teams that can complain about that

by aucklandlaurie Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:19 am

Biltong wrote:The only team I can recall that recently visited Samoa was Scotland.So you can blame every other first tier team then, but then you can throw in plenty of teams that can complain about that

Correct Biltong, but if anyone tried watching the game then you will know why the ABs will not play Samoa in Apia.

by whocares Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:26 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Biltong wrote:The only team I can recall that recently visited Samoa was Scotland.So you can blame every other first tier team then, but then you can throw in plenty of teams that can complain about that
Correct Biltong, but if anyone tried watching the game then you will know why the ABs will not play Samoa in Apia.

Was it on tv?
According to a friend who went there, there is barely one decent hotel there while the only regular flights used to depart from aukland at 6am. Some people might think its like going from london to dublin but it aint at all

by aucklandlaurie Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:34 am

Whocares
No it wasnt on TV, and thats the point, there isnt the facilities there to film/broadcast a live International, therefore there will not be any TV revenue.the main ground only holds about 15,000 people, and the facilities are hardly adequate.

by **Biltong** Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:34 am

I don't think it was televised much at all, I recall at the time only a few could watch it, we didn't get it in SA.

by aucklandlaurie Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:35 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Whocares
No it wasnt on TV, and thats the point, there isnt the facilities there to film/broadcast a live International, therefore there will not be any TV revenue.the main ground only holds about 15,000 people, and the facilities are hardly adequate.

by GloriousEmpire Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:40 am

The problem with Samoa is most of their internationals are bound to foreign contracts. NZ and Australia haven't visited Samoa on a "senior tour" is merely a technicality. The pacific nations cup regularly featured the NZ Maori or NZ A but in Samoa, Samoa could never name a decent line up and continually got handed their arses. There simply would be no point in NZ sending a full All Blacks team there to give them a 90 point hiding. Especially when Samoa can play the same game in Auckland, get more Samoan fans turn out and make more money.

Samoa have come on greatly in recent years and seem more impeded by an adjudication bias against their particular brand of hard hitting rugby. They can barely make a tackle in the NH without being penalised off the field. It's like the Bismark Du Plessis debacle but on a national scale.

The first step is to keep Polynesians in Polynesia by granting Samoa and their cousin islands places in super rugby rather than the endless Australian franchises that john O'neill wangled into existence. That would mean better availability to Samoa of NZ players (sorry "Samoan" players) and more likelihood of home games from
Big profile teams.

by aucklandlaurie Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:51 am

The trick would be for samoa (and perhaps even Tonga) to have a super xv franchise and base it in either Auckland or maybe Wellington.

Tests between the All blacks and Samoa should be played in Auckland,(Not to give the ABs home advantage) but to promote, and broadcast a quality product, the finanacial gain to samoa far outweighs doing anything up at Apia.

Samoans make up the largest group of non maori Polynesians in Aucklands population,the largest polynesian city in the World followed by Honolulu, Samoans are the backbone of rugby in the three Auckland unions (Auckland, North harbour and Counties/manakau).

by tigerleghorn Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:55 am

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.

and I remember Wales v just the Western part of Samoa in Cardiff at the world cup in 91, do you View? Are England dodging Samoa? 1347041234

by Guest Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:02 am

What happened?

by tigerleghorn Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:07 am

ebop wrote:What happened?

Wales 13 (just the Western bit Yahoo

) Samoa 16

Samoas first World Cup against Wales in CARDIFF ffs!!

by aucklandlaurie Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:09 am

tigerleghorn wrote:
ebop wrote:What happened?
Wales 13 (just the Western bit ) Samoa 16

Samoas first World Cup against Wales in CARDIFF ffs!!

But didnt I read somewhere the other day that home world cups were much easier?

by tigerleghorn Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:12 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
tigerleghorn wrote:
ebop wrote:What happened?
Wales 13 (just the Western bit ) Samoa 16

Samoas first World Cup against Wales in CARDIFF ffs!!
But didnt I read somewhere the other day that home world cups were much easier?

Oh yeah,.......I'll get me coat Doh

by Guest Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:14 am

They are Laurie, but only if it's NZ and SA. Otherwise it's really hard.

by tigerleghorn Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:20 am

tigerleghorn wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
and I remember Wales v just the Western part of Samoa in Cardiff at the world cup in 91, do you View?

Anyway, three years later, Wales out for revenge managed.......Western Samoa 34-9 Wales!

Well, this must have fired up Wales because in the next time they met in CARDIFF in 99.......Wales 31-38 Samoa!!

Glad you brought this up Deluded?

by No 7&1/2 Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:29 am

tigerleghorn wrote:
tigerleghorn wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
and I remember Wales v just the Western part of Samoa in Cardiff at the world cup in 91, do you View?
Anyway, three years later, Wales out for revenge managed.......Western Samoa 34-9 Wales!

Well, this must have fired up Wales because in the next time they met in CARDIFF in 99.......Wales 31-38 Samoa!!

Glad you brought this up Deluded?

Yeah but to be fair to them they did have the last laugh last year when it was Wales 19-26 Samoa.

by fa0019 Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:31 am

If I recall England last year or the year before gave their entire profits of a AI test match between themselves and AUS to help I believe the Samoan union who were struggling financially.

Anyone else done that???

by fa0019 Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:32 am

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.

You mean when the put on a Dan luger for 1 minute.... where he contributed zero carries and zero tackles in the match?

by Guest Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:35 am

But we're a tier 2 nation - hence why this world cup we're in a group with England and Aus. Why would Samoa want a tier 2 nation to tour them??? They want a tier 1 nation to help them prepare for the world cup, which precludes Wales from this argument.

Whistle

by fa0019 Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:40 am

Griff wrote:But we're a tier 2 nation - hence why this world cup we're in a group with England and Aus. Why would Samoa want a tier 2 nation to tour them??? They want a tier 1 nation to help them prepare for the world cup, which precludes Wales from this argument.

By RWC definition aren't you 3rd tier

AUS were in the first pot, England in the second. You were in the third with us Scots! Ah the joys of pro rugby....

by Guest Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:42 am

fa0019 wrote:
Griff wrote:But we're a tier 2 nation - hence why this world cup we're in a group with England and Aus. Why would Samoa want a tier 2 nation to tour them??? They want a tier 1 nation to help them prepare for the world cup, which precludes Wales from this argument.

By RWC definition aren't you 3rd tier

AUS were in the first pot, England in the second. You were in the third with us Scots! Ah the joys of pro rugby....

Yep, that's what I meant sorry. So yes, a tier 3/pot 3 nation. Why would Samoa want a tier 3 nation touring them???

And how can England lose so heavily to a tier 3 nation??? Run

(Sorry!)

by GloriousEmpire Fri 25 Oct 2013, 10:03 am

fa0019 wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
You mean when the put on a Dan luger for 1 minute.... where he contributed zero carries and zero tackles in the match?

It smacked of arrogance that the English thought their team management were superior to the match officials on the day and that they could ignore standard professional match protocols just because they were England.

The referee should have awarded a penalty against England on field and the team administrators responsible should have been suspended.

Unfortunately the RFU wielded its political and financial clout and instead saw to it that a match official was sanctioned bizarrely for attempting to make England stick to the laws.

It was a sad and black day for rugby.

by fa0019 Fri 25 Oct 2013, 10:05 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
You mean when the put on a Dan luger for 1 minute.... where he contributed zero carries and zero tackles in the match?
It smacked of arrogance that the English thought their team management were superior to the match officials on the day and that they could ignore standard professional match protocols just because they were England.

The referee should have awarded a penalty against England on field and the team administrators responsible should have been suspended.

Unfortunately the RFU wielded its political and financial clout and instead saw to it that a match official was sanctioned bizarrely for attempting to make England stick to the laws.

It was a sad and black day for rugby.

The team official was suspended and they were fined.

Black day for rugby why? It didn't change the result, it didn't impact the game, it was a mistake, they got fined. Whats the big deal?

Has it caused unwanted issues subsequently in rugby since? No.

by ChequeredJersey Fri 25 Oct 2013, 10:29 am

tigerleghorn wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
and I remember Wales v just the Western part of Samoa in Cardiff at the world cup in 91, do you View?

Didn't we also win by 13 points?

by Duty281 Fri 25 Oct 2013, 10:34 am

This forum is absolute gold sometimes - more jealously of England!

by tigerleghorn Fri 25 Oct 2013, 10:39 am

fa0019 wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
You mean when the put on a Dan luger for 1 minute.... where he contributed zero carries and zero tackles in the match?
It smacked of arrogance that the English thought their team management were superior to the match officials on the day and that they could ignore standard professional match protocols just because they were England.

The referee should have awarded a penalty against England on field and the team administrators responsible should have been suspended.

Unfortunately the RFU wielded its political and financial clout and instead saw to it that a match official was sanctioned bizarrely for attempting to make England stick to the laws.

It was a sad and black day for rugby.
The team official was suspended and they were fined.

Black day for rugby why? It didn't change the result, it didn't impact the game, it was a mistake, they got fined. Whats the big deal?

Has it caused unwanted issues subsequently in rugby since? No.

Mate, don't make the mistake in assuming GE requires an intelligent response. It was just a fire and forget fishing post. Just another of the endless wums generated by the terminally tedious Baron Münchausen of Mayfair/ Cuba / NZ and indeed anywhere you or anyone else has been. picard

by GloriousEmpire Fri 25 Oct 2013, 10:58 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:
tigerleghorn wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
and I remember Wales v just the Western part of Samoa in Cardiff at the world cup in 91, do you View?
Didn't we also win by 13 points?

It's always the western part of Samoa.

by tigerleghorn Fri 25 Oct 2013, 11:17 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:
tigerleghorn wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
and I remember Wales v just the Western part of Samoa in Cardiff at the world cup in 91, do you View?
Didn't we also win by 13 points?
It's always the western part of Samoa.

by Breadvan Fri 25 Oct 2013, 11:54 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
You mean when the put on a Dan luger for 1 minute.... where he contributed zero carries and zero tackles in the match?
It smacked of arrogance that the English thought their team management were superior to the match officials on the day and that they could ignore standard professional match protocols just because they were England.

The referee should have awarded a penalty against England on field and the team administrators responsible should have been suspended.

Unfortunately the RFU wielded its political and financial clout and instead saw to it that a match official was sanctioned bizarrely for attempting to make England stick to the laws.

It was a sad and black day for rugby.

Almost as black as Engs classic away strip in 2011.

by The Saint Fri 25 Oct 2013, 2:43 pm

nathan wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
i don't remember Wales having any glory at the World Cup.....

Why don't Wales play Samoa? Wales often put an extra international on to make an extra few pennies, would make sense as clearly Samoa and Wales both need it.

We played them last year (cue jokes). We're playing Tonga this year. So Wales ARE helping...

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 25 Oct 2013, 2:53 pm

I don't understand why Tonga are getting to play against France and Wales but yet Samoa are only playing Ireland?

Also Fiji are only getting to play against Italy and a meaningless game against the Barbarians this year, in their centurion year.

This is their only time they can send out near full strength teams so its really dissapointing.

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Fri 25 Oct 2013, 4:50 pm

A thought, do England dodge the Samoans because it would be embarrassing for them when there Samoan player steps up for the wrong anthem?

Oh wait wait silly me can't be that because they would dodge South Africa,NewZealand and USA as well if that was the case.

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Fri 25 Oct 2013, 4:53 pm

Lots of scores being thrown around this thread regarding Wales v Samoa good to see Samoa getting some recognition for beating Last years Grandslam champs and this year Championship holders,
Maybe that why England avoid them?
They seen them beat a team that handed them their balls on a plate!

by tigerleghorn Fri 25 Oct 2013, 4:59 pm

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Lots of scores being thrown around this thread regarding Wales v Samoa good to see Samoa getting some recognition for beating Last years Grandslam champs and this year Championship holders,
Maybe that why England avoid them?
They seen them beat a team that handed them their balls on a plate!

Do you want to discuss Englands record v Samoa View or shall we just suck on a thoughtful tooth re Wales and anyone south of the equator?

by GloriousEmpire Fri 25 Oct 2013, 5:59 pm

This whole thread seems motivated by a desire to have a pop At my adopted home country of England. I for one am outraged!

by No 7&1/2 Fri 25 Oct 2013, 6:00 pm

tigerleghorn wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Lots of scores being thrown around this thread regarding Wales v Samoa good to see Samoa getting some recognition for beating Last years Grandslam champs and this year Championship holders,
Maybe that why England avoid them?
They seen them beat a team that handed them their balls on a plate!
Do you want to discuss Englands record v Samoa View or shall we just suck on a thoughtful tooth re Wales and anyone south of the equator?

Of all the things to pick to wum about England the Welshman picks Samoa! Doh

by tigerleghorn Fri 25 Oct 2013, 6:06 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:This whole thread seems motivated by a desire to have a pop At my adopted home country of England. I for one am outraged!

by Jhamer25 Fri 25 Oct 2013, 6:24 pm

nathan wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
i don't remember Wales having any glory at the World Cup.....

Why don't Wales play Samoa? Wales often put an extra international on to make an extra few pennies, would make sense as clearly Samoa and Wales both need it.

Oh got into a wrold cu final did you, sorry couldn't remember, what was it 10 year ago. What since.
3 Grands Slams
A six nations Championship
And quarter Final in the most current world cup
Oh no thats us sorry thumbsup

by tigerleghorn Fri 25 Oct 2013, 6:30 pm

Jhamer25 wrote:
nathan wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
i don't remember Wales having any glory at the World Cup.....

Why don't Wales play Samoa? Wales often put an extra international on to make an extra few pennies, would make sense as clearly Samoa and Wales both need it.
Oh got into a wrold cu final did you, sorry couldn't remember, what was it 10 year ago. What since.
3 Grands Slams
A six nations Championship
And quarter Final in the most current world cup
Oh no thats us sorry

Thunks fur yor risponss NEXT!!! picard

by tigerleghorn Fri 25 Oct 2013, 6:34 pm

Jhamer25 wrote:
nathan wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I remember Woodwards England fielding 16 players to scrape past Samoa in the 2003 glory cup.
i don't remember Wales having any glory at the World Cup.....

Why don't Wales play Samoa? Wales often put an extra international on to make an extra few pennies, would make sense as clearly Samoa and Wales both need it.
Oh got into a wrold cu final did you, sorry couldn't remember, what was it 10 year ago. What since.
3 Grands Slams
A six nations Championship
And quarter Final in the most current world cup
Oh no thats us sorry

Actually it was three World Cup finals son.

by The Saint Fri 25 Oct 2013, 6:37 pm

When was that? I forgets.

by tigerleghorn Fri 25 Oct 2013, 6:43 pm

The Saint wrote:When was that? I forgets.

Please Gareth, lets not start again. It was 91, 03 and 07 ok?

The posts here are directed towards View/Deluded, nothing anti- Welsh....move along chap (and take jhamer with you please)

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