Riddick Bowe - HoF Worthy?

Next year he will be eligible for the Hall of Fame.

He was a two time champ and unified at one point I believe with two good wins against Holyfield.

His fights against Golota were bad and he was well on his way to losing both before low blows gave him the wins and looked shot at that point.

I'm sure he will get in but what are other poster's thoughts on him?

The problem with this sort of thing is you have to see who is already in there........

Barry Mcguigan !..............Yep Riddick Bowe is deserving.

Hall of Fame of Duckers.

Belt / bin.....end of. FACT

That's right Truss, also the 'Gatti factor' has added a new benchmark.

I was actually for Gatti as he was a real blood and guts throwback fighter, a one off in today's boxing and I'm sure he brought many new fans to the sport so contributed greatly.

The problem is, his actual achievements, skill etc are not on par with most HoF and leaves an argument for debate.

It very much depends on what criteria we wish to apply. If we look at some of the woefully undeserving that are in there such as the aforementioned Barry M and Ingemar Johansen then why should Bowe not be in there. However as a firm believer the standard in the HOF should be raised not lowered I probably have to say no.

Fine fighter and had he fulfilled his potential we would not even be having the conversation but his peak was way too brief to put the debate beyond question and his subsequent fall from grace was about as ignominious as you would care to recall. Would not rule him out getting the call but he should not IMO, certainly not before the likes of Curry and Naz who are still inexplicably excluded.

Don curry is absent.............

Daniel Zaragoza is in!!!...........So what do you do apart from just think it's a whole pot of dog wash.......

Stallone ripped off Chuck wepner for Rocky and he's in...........Without Wepner there is no Rocky..

Let's chuck chucky in too........... 

By the lowest standards of entrant Bowe deserves to be in...................I mean Richard Steele is in.

Just out of interest anybody have an idea of who the other heavy champs are that are in.....

If we are talking Baer types then he deserves to be in..........

Always wondered how fighting a warrior like Holy instead of a guy soon to be trashed off Mccall......

Is considered ducking..

Without researching it properly Truss do not think there are many guys that are considered genuine heavyweight champions who are not in there outside of Hart and Carnera. As I mentioned Ingemar is in there as is Willard, which kind of shows where they are setting the bar. Baer and Braddock are also in, which should make Bowe a shoo in!

You're right Rowls.........

Think curry remains the only p4per number 1 not to be inducted..

I remember Patterson being in the Ring HOF in the 80s and Liston couldn't get in...

Curry did some time I believe over child support........Bad boys don't get in.it seems.......

No, in my opinion, as he was a waste of talent that never fulfilled his potential and should be forever hammered for binning the belt. Looked great fighting a roided up cruiserweight but got handily beat twice by a, by that era's standards, fairly average fully fledged heavyweight.

Agree there are already undeserving people in the HOF, but two (or more) wrongs don't make a right.

Totally agree re Curry Truss, taking out the boards in built desire to wind you up Curry should be an absolute lock. As you have said a genuine p4p claimant and undoubtedly the best at his weight for a good couple of years. Like you have Curry I have a similar bug bear about Naz’ exclusion. Accept he is a fairly horrible chap outside the ring, but worse than Monzon? If we look solely at their in the ring records can anyone really claim Barry M did more at featherweight than Naz did.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Curry did some time I believe over child support........Bad boys don't get in.it seems.......

Liston? Monzon?

I think Naz belongs...........I mean ten times better than Zaragoza in terms of achievement and talent...

Funny thing is the people that try to wind me up over Curry I know have probably never seen him fight..

Probably think he's a light heavy..

The Hall of Fame is a club. It's about personality and promoting the sport as well as fighting. McGuigan is in because he has continued to be a good spokesman for boxing, he was also well known in the States which helps.

There is an article on the net written by a committee member of the HOF were he describes Curry as surly and uncooperative. Naz is another man that is very much disliked within boxing circles if the autobiographies are to be believed.

The HOF criteria seems to be a good fighter, a good personality and most important of all paying dues and lip service to the hall itself.

Good job Ray Robbo wasn't surly and uncooperative..

Barker is a nice guy...chuck him in..

What nonsense.

If fights not fighters made the HOF, then the trilogy with Holyfield is a shoe in, but as it stands then no, he shouldn't.
The problerm for Bowe in my eyes is the perception that he avoided Lewis and thus the chance to avenge a lose that cost him the seal of a great amateur career. I agree with Truss that the ascertion that he ducked lewis is far too simple an explaination as to why they never fought as pros, but like it or not that is how most fans will remember it, and it costs Bowe dearly. The brevity of his reign would be all but forgotten if it included wins over Holyfield and Lewis.

No It costs Bowe dearly over here....Horizontal.......

Have to remember that...

Because the Yanks are quick to turn a blind eye to their failings and place more emphasis on nationalistic jingoism.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Because the Yanks are quick to turn a blind eye to their failings and place more emphasis on nationalistic jingoism.

We have to find some failings first..

Which proves my point.

Can't find something you're not looking for.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Which proves my point.

Can't find something you're not looking for.

Nonsense. I was looking for a pair of trainers the other day and found a CD I did not even realise was missing.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Good job Ray Robbo wasn't surly and uncooperative..

Barker is a nice guy...chuck him in..

What nonsense.

I wouldn't take it too seriously. It's a club and they host a fantastic weekend once a year were boxing greats and fans can mingle together and watch the weekends big fights.

On another note maybe the IBHOF are being homophobic in not letting Curry in, given the rumours.

Hahaha

EDIT: NB: this was in reference to Rowley's comment re trainers/CD.

PS: what's with the demotion Rowley? Adam n Hero finally realise how rubbish you were??

Will say that there is an awful lot of revisionism when it comes to the belt incident......and Lewis..

Brits regard Lewis as this all conquering hero and in effect he was .......But not back then..

He wasn't rated much back home and Bowe was a big favorite...........

Ko's head to head for what it's worth had  Angelo Dundee types picking Bowe easy........which is complete twaddle but an indication that Lewis was to make his name later on.....and gain respect in the future..

First he was to be outboxed by Frank and leathered off Mccall.......

Lewis was a no-name.......Bowe fought Holy for big bucks........

Lewis wasn't a world beater then and most including me saw Bowe knocking him out..

Whether we were right who knows..

Any one who thinks Americans perception of Bowe is that he is defined by a dustbin is way out...

I'm sorry to tell you..

Strongback wrote:I wouldn't take it too seriously.  It's a club and they host a fantastic weekend once a year were boxing greats and fans can mingle together and watch the weekends big fights.

I'm currently saving up to go over the next couple of years. Have spoke to a few people who have been and it does sound a fantastic weekend.

Bowe only really had one good fight as a Heavyweight champ, and that was the night he took the belt from Evander. He was inspired that night and outmuscled, outhustled Holyfield, rightly coming out on top. From that moment on his championship career was a joke.

He beat a shot Dokes and an undeserving, never had it anyway Ferguson as well as the idiotic belt in the bin episode where he blatantly ducked Lewis and deprived us of one of the best potential HW fights going. Then he lost to Evander in a fight he should have won.

Yes he may have beaten up his old foe Jorge Luis Gonzalez and also handed Herbie Hide his first defeat but come on - these guys were not exactly top drawer. Hide was effectively a cruiserweight and Gonzalez was very poor. You could argue the 3rd fight with Holyfield was a cracker but it was a non title affair.

By the time the fights with Golota came around he was finished as a Heavyweight contender. HoF? Not in my book.

Mr Bounce wrote:Bowe only really had one good fight as a Heavyweight champ, and that was the night he took the belt from Evander. He was inspired that night and outmuscled, outhustled Holyfield, rightly coming out on top. From that moment on his championship career was a joke.

He beat a shot Dokes and an undeserving, never had it anyway Ferguson as well as the idiotic belt in the bin episode where he blatantly ducked Lewis and deprived us of one of the best potential HW fights going. Then he lost to Evander in a fight he should have won.

Yes he may have beaten up his old foe Jorge Luis Gonzalez and also handed Herbie Hide his first defeat but come on - these guys were not exactly top drawer. Hide was effectively a cruiserweight and Gonzalez was ver poor. You could argue the 3rd fight with Holyfield was a cracker but it was a non title affair.

By the time the fights with Golota came around he was finished as a Heavyweight contender. HoF? Not in my book.

So beating Holy who went onto regain the heavy title and draw with lewis in their third fight was nothing..........

Read it again. I said "Bowe only really had one good fight as a Heavyweight champ"

I wasn't referring to his career as a whole. I was referring to his championship fights.

I read it the first time..It's an in correct statement.......

Both Holy wins were great wins......Seldon ko1 went on to win a world title..

how many great wins did Louis have??

Mr Bounce wrote:Bowe only really had one good fight as a Heavyweight champ, and that was the night he took the belt from Evander..

Maybe you should read this again

But that's my point Truss. If Bowe never won the World Title we wouldn't even be talking about him. Fact is he beat Evander which was and should be credited as an excellent achievement. He then fought 2 stiffs and then lost his title in a fight he should have won.

It's hardly much of a championship reign is it? (I didn't count the WBO bauble as a major title back then - Hide wasn't exactly the world's best was he??).

If Bowe had won the rematch it would have been very different I am sure, but CHAMPIONSHIP-wise, his record is lousy.

And re my quote, perhaps I should have said "When he was the challenger".

Is okay I was being facetious.......Bouncey

I'm not arguing about his reign...........But consensus tends to have Lewis beating Holy for the undisputed heavy title as his best win.....

That came after Bowe 3.......Holy beat an undefeated in his comeback Tyson twice soon after.....

Now whilst I agree Tyson wasn't at his best..........Holy 3 becomes a top quality win considering what comes after..

We'll agree his reign wasn't great..........But more credit for Holy 3 which was a a very good win at least..

Absolutely Truss. It was a good and hard fought win. But a great champion? Nah.

He isn't but he is, on achievement and overall excitement he shouldn't get in, he has the Holyfield trilogy and that's pretty much it but if Braddock is in then so should he be.

On a side note, Gatti is an interesting case, on achievement he doesn't belong anywhere near a hall of fame but anyone who is involved in four fights of the year deserves some recognition.

By the IBHOF's lousy standards, then I guess Bowe maybe just deserves to creep in. If it were down to me, however, he wouldn't even come in to the reckoning, as wouldn't dozens of others who currently reside there!

I see the 'Dowe did / didn't duck Lewis!' argument is still rolling on! Never quite been one hundred percent on either side, to be honest, and suspect there's truth in both arguments.

Bowe and Newman always claimed that their issue was with Sulaiman and the WBC rather than with facing Lewis, who they wanted to accommodate. They were pretty public in stating that they considered the WBC and its president to be corrupt and a retardant to Bowe's career, and that it wouldn't have mattered who the WBC mandatory was at the time, they'd still have binned the belt in any case. As it was, it just happened to be Lewis.

They also did publicly offer Lewis a fight in 1993 - but only if Lewis ditched the WBC belt beforehand, with Newman stating that if Lewis was really so confident of beating Bowe, then vacating the WBC belt shouldn't have been a problem, as a win would see him pick up Riddick's WBA and IBF versions in any case. See Bowe and Newman's post-fight interview after the Dokes debacle, for instance.

Big talk by Bowe and Newman - problem is, there's no way of knowing how serious they really were about ever making the fight happen, as they must have known that Lewis would never give up his belt (and with it a nice bargaining chip) and allow them to dictate to him in such a way, hence why so many feel that this 'offer' from Bowe and his team was really just a smokescreen.

I do think that Bowe seemed to be easily rattled whenever faced with Lewis or even just questions about Lewis though, I must say. Doesn't necessarily mean he was baulking at the thought of fighting him, but I suspect he was a bit unsettled by Lewis in some ways. We know that Bowe's psyche could be fragile at times and who is to say how much the defeat in Seoul in 1988 was still playing on his mind, if indeed it was at all.