Boxing vs UFC

by **Pr4wn** Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:30 pm

First topic message reminder :

Afternoon all,

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, I really enjoy boxing but am not a devout follower in the way that some of you guys are. I am, however, a big fan of UFC and MMA fighting in general.

Do you guys feel that boxing would benefit from a more regimented structure such as that of the UFC? There is one champion at each weight, rather than the bizarre system of having multiple belts and boxing boards.

It's my opinion that boxing is losing many fans who simply cannot be bothered with the personal greed of promoters and fighters. Fans don't get to see the fights that they deserve because of personal issues, contracts, drug testing etc and this simply doesn't happen in the UFC.

Boxing has a fine, rich history but it's purity has been corrupted by money-grabbers. They'd better adapt quickly before boxing becomes a footnote below the UFC and MMA fighting in general.

What is the opinion of the boxing fans?

by **Pr4wn** Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:19 pm

Izzi wrote:If boxing is so in decline why has Mayweather been paid some scary amount of money for a contract of fights?

As others have pointed out you have no evidence to back up your claim, which quite frankly is either just a wum attempt or you clearly have severe mental issues regarding denial.

Fact is UFC gets nowhere near the gate receipts of boxing, nowhere near the money ppv channels throw at the fighters etc.

Produce some evidence or get on your bike back to mentallyunstableville

Is this guy serious? Calm down, son.

The fact that boxing still has higher gate receipts than UFC does not mean that it's not in decline. Maybe you should look up what "in decline" means.

Boxing is clearly in decline in the USA, the world's single biggest sports market. I don't need to provide evidence, look it up.

Again, this isn't a thread about which sport is better or more credible, so let's not follow Truss into the gutter. This thread is about what changes boxing can make to rescue itself.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:25 pm

Boxing isn't laden with characters at the moment...........

If a Tyson came a long he'd re-invigorate the sport like he did in the late 80s when it had a bit of a decline post Hagler.........

Personalities not titles means ratings.........Or else Eusebio Pedroza would have been PPV........

Boxing will get more personalities these things are cyclical..........

by **Pr4wn** Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:27 pm

You're saying Floyd isn't a personality? He has a huge personality.

Trouble is, his fighting style is as dull as dishwater.

by Steffan Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:29 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Trouble is, his fighting style is as dull as dishwater

???

Floyd is brilliant to watch

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:29 pm

He is one of the few..........and he is massive........

In the 80s there were loads and the sport thrived with three titles per division....

Cyclical.......

A lot of Boxing fans will like UFC but purists won't........and there is enough of them added to the UFC likers to remain a big sport..

by Guest Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:30 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Boxing isn't laden with characters at the moment...........

If a Tyson came a long he'd re-invigorate the sport like he did in the late 80s when it had a bit of a decline post Hagler.........

Personalities not titles means ratings.........Or else Eusebio Pedroza would have been PPV........

Boxing will get more personalities these things are cyclical..........

Don't let Mr Fury hear you say that. However, doesn't it concern you when a fighter's personality more than his ability seems to be the main concern of the powers that be? In an ideal world, a fighter like Ward gets showcased to a massive audience and the Chavez Jrs of the world get to fight on some Indian Reservation Casino after the pig tickling contest.

The altruism seems to be getting pushed aside in favour of something with pizazz.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:30 pm

Not to me and not to anyone I've spoken to about it.

I think he's one for the purists, just not to my taste.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:31 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Not to me and not to anyone I've spoken to about it.

I think he's one for the purists, just not to my taste.

Well that's it then.......Ultimate proof.........Say no more!!

by Guest Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:33 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He is one of the few..........and he is massive........

In the 80s there were loads and the sport thrived with three titles per division....

Cyclical.......

A lot of Boxing fans will like UFC but purists won't........and there is enough of them added to the UFC likers to remain a big sport..

The number of UFC fighters who have realised that they need to improve their boxing skills is growing rapidly and whilst you may think that the fans enjoy watching fighters rolling around the floor in their pants, the vast majority of them are more appreciative of the boxing elements of the contests than the groundwork.

St Pierre used to train with Freddie Roach in a bid to improve his boxing and consequently became one of the more well rounded fighters in the sport.

by Lumbering_Jack Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:34 pm

UFC are a Ltd company I think which means they don't have to release PPV figures. I can't remember when it was but both boxing and UFC had a big card on the same night. UFC released the PPV figures saying it was 'about a million' which probably translates to a number far lower. Boxing main problem is itself, not UFC.

by Lumbering_Jack Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:37 pm

You've got to remember with MMA that boxing in a traditional sense is no good for them. Plant that left foot forward and you'll have you leg deadened with a couple of seconds.

by J.Benson II Fri 22 Nov 2013, 4:42 pm

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:
J.Benson II wrote:UFC has surely overtaken boxing in popularity in the USA. Most American's I have met don't give a damn about boxing anymore but are huge fans of MMA. The best American boxers (excluding PBF) struggle to sell out their local town hall.
In Europe though, the UFC hasnt really taken off and you rarely meet someone who follows it closely.
I enjoy MMA overall and appreciate the skill levels required. However, the UFC isnt without its problems. As SOF and LJ have already said, the big names can get favourable decisions and since the UFC was just one of several major MMA orginizations that have existed in recent years, the best guys never always fought each other either.

SOF mentioned the decline of the UFC in recent years, I think this could be due to the decline/retirement of Brock Lesnar. The UFC owe alot to Brock since he helped bring exposure to the orginization by attracting fans from wrestling. Since he's gone, some of these fans may have lost interest.
However, Dana White has done a great job with promoting the sport. White is a big boxing fan and corrected the flaws that were wrong with boxing. He knows that for a sport to have longevity it needs to keep the fans happy.
One thing though that I used to find amusing was when Dana White used to talk about drug testing in the UFC when Brock "gassed to his gills" Lesnar was the poster boy of the orginization.
Talking to a handful of Americans you come up with that!!??

Look at boxing in general, York Hall, Bluewater....PBF, Manny and co are at the top. The sport cannot be judged on other fighters not packing tens of thousands into a venue.

There are plenty of MMA cards outside of the BIG ufc events that scrape a couple of hundred. But because you spoke to a few Americans, that means nothing about which is more popular.

Personally I'd say boxing is far more popular in the US, not only do Floyd, Manny sell millions in PPV's and tickets, look at Marquez, Bradley, Chavez Jr.....blah blah blah. The rest are still selling 4000+ tickets every fight and these kind of fights are taking place every week. How do you think lower level MMA fighters would sell should they have their own headlined events??? I'd argue and say not very many. The fact the top guys are taking on each other helps sell "A" card, but the guys on the undercard who hold belts and aren't too well known couldn't ever sell tickets the way Danny Garcia, Devon Alexander and co could. They aren't big sellers, but they still do ok numbers based on their profiles.

There are thousands of MMA cards in the US, and the big UFC event is the only one that sells and they need tons of big fighters even to do that.

Its not just a handful of Americans, it seems to be a growing trend in America. Visit any American sports forum and you'll see that MMA gets discussed more than boxing now.
I'm a fan of both but prefer boxing over MMA. However, I'm not going kid myself into thinking that the general popularity of MMA (especially in the States) isnt on the rise compared to boxing.
Boxing still has a future of course, but I think its future will lie more in Europe (for the heavier weight categories), Latin America and Asia (for the lighter ones).

by jimdig Fri 22 Nov 2013, 5:31 pm

I think boxers at the higher levels are more empowered than UFC fighters. Maybe it's worse for fans, but on a 60 buck UFC ppv card, there is no one bar maybe Dana White getting paid, floyd or manny wages. Hell there is no one getting paid Danny Garcia undercard wages.
The marketing team has a great job with UFC, but it's a closed shop franchise, are the best mma guys in UFC? It's certainly marketed like that, but at least boxing isn't a closed shop, all pros are welcome, and the cream generally rises to the top.

UFC events remind me of wrestlemania events a little bit.

by Guest Fri 22 Nov 2013, 5:35 pm

jimdig wrote:I think boxers at the higher levels are more empowered than UFC fighters. Maybe it's worse for fans, but on a 60 buck UFC ppv card, there is no one bar maybe Dana White getting paid, floyd or manny wages. Hell there is no one getting paid Danny Garcia undercard wages.
The marketing team has a great job with UFC, but it's a closed shop franchise, are the best mma guys in UFC? It's certainly marketed like that, but at least boxing isn't a closed shop, all pros are welcome, and the cream generally rises to the top.

UFC events remind me of wrestlemania events a little bit.

People want VFM and sadly some boxing/UFC matches leave a nasty taste in the mouth despite the promotor's (can't believe I'm saying this) best intentions

by jimdig Fri 22 Nov 2013, 5:46 pm

Mma also isn't legal in all states, just been to New York, and it's not legal there, so no cards in Madison square garden. That probably adds to the ppv sales though.

by jimdig Fri 22 Nov 2013, 5:49 pm

Had to google vfm Dave, learn something new everyday.

by 3fingers Fri 22 Nov 2013, 6:27 pm

When a sport which relies on 'events' moves from terrestrial TV to a paid channel, such as Sky or boxnation, there'll always be a loss of fans with a passing interest in the sport. However, I think the loss of fans is over exaggerated. Boxing has gone from York Hall to football stadiums (..even Kevin Mitchell fought at West Ham's Ground) and PPV and purse records continue to be broken.

Granted, the UFC packs cards with good matchup's but I think the decline of boxing is over-egged especially by MMA fans. We all know the problems with boxing. As Rowley said if MMA continues to grow then other organisations/businessmen will want a slice of the pie, then the decline begins, with respect to the fans enjoyment. The WBC kept rivals away for a long time, how long can the UFC do the same?

Disgruntled fans are different to lost fans.

by **seanmichaels** Fri 22 Nov 2013, 6:49 pm

Spawn, you like the tight pants don't you? And the cuddling? We are liberal here, our leader Trussman even votes for labour.....

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 22 Nov 2013, 6:58 pm

seanmichaels wrote:Spawn, you like the tight pants don't you? And the cuddling? We are liberal here, our leader Trussman even votes for labour.....

by Hammersmith harrier Fri 22 Nov 2013, 7:35 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Not to me and not to anyone I've spoken to about it.

I think he's one for the purists, just not to my taste.

The 2.2 million who paid to watch him fight would beg to differ, when was the last time a UFC PPV got near that many buys?

by Lumbering_Jack Fri 22 Nov 2013, 7:40 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Not to me and not to anyone I've spoken to about it.

I think he's one for the purists, just not to my taste.
The 2.2 million who paid to watch him fight would beg to differ, when was the last time a UFC PPV got near that many buys?

Its not that simple though is it. How many did he get vs Guerrero?

UFC isn't as big a draw as boxing but it is probably comparable in the US.

by Hammersmith harrier Fri 22 Nov 2013, 7:41 pm

How is it comparable when the numbers don't compare?

How many UFC shows are there a year compared to Boxing which has a few each and every week. Boxing is still a worldwide sport but MMA is largely an american thing.

by Lumbering_Jack Fri 22 Nov 2013, 8:06 pm

MMA is certainly not an American this. It is huge is Asia, and South America too.

If you are looking for one off numbers then boxing is bigger, but as UFC does not publicise it's PPV figures we don't know how it compares. UFC shows do sell out pretty quickly though.

by Champagne_Socialist Fri 22 Nov 2013, 9:12 pm

Of the 7 shows that hit the 700,000 mark in North America last year based on cable industry estimates, 3 were boxing, 3 were UFC and 1 was WWE. But of the top 15, 10 came from UFC, 4 from boxing, and 1 from WWE

by 3fingers Sat 23 Nov 2013, 3:29 am

Isn't nearly every UFC (...155,156,157, etc) PPV?

I think UFC events should be likened to WWE's Summerslam and Wrestlemania events, whereby multiple good/(popular) figures are matched on the same show, therefore, naturally, obtaining good PPV buys.

A commodities worth is proportional to its rarity, boxing matches occur every week, and not under a unified body unlike PPV UFC event, a single body putting on a few quality cards each year is bound to generate interest....and this is where boxing fails.

In the past boxing has had huge success and the assessment of modern financial ledgers would certainly counter any assertion of a decline, however, as soon as multiple organisations come into the fray then the best fights are seldom made. This is where the UFC comes into it's own and trumps boxing because the best fights are made and with strong undercards, they are less often and have a single promotional body/belt.... boxing was once like this...but then it 'took off'............ this may yet happen to UFC?.... because after all it's still in it's embryotic stages unlike boxing.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 23 Nov 2013, 8:58 am

Mayweather vs Cotto selling 1.5mil with Pacquiao vs Marquez being the only other 1mil PPV is why boxing still trumps UFC comfortably.

by **ShahenshahG** Sat 23 Nov 2013, 9:05 am

How much viewers do non subcription events/channels get for either sport? That would probably be a better indicator of boxings apparent decline.

by **ShahenshahG** Sat 23 Nov 2013, 9:35 am

Wlad vs Haye did around 500 million worldwide - so there could be something in what prawn says. 4999999 won't be tuning in again! Heavyweights attract serious figures and no matter how dull the division is. I think that its mostly because other countries are shielded from the glamour and glitz so when its missing in the division they don't miss it too much - whereas in uk and Usa - the buildup and the outside events are necessary to compete with all the other sports on offer.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 23 Nov 2013, 1:01 pm

Peoples opinion on boxing is too inclusive to the US and the UK shah, look at boxing in Germany for instance it's never been bigger. Then you have the oriental market which varies so much from the western it gets forgotten, a bantamweight title fight to them is like a heavyweight fight to the germans.

by darrenr75 Sat 23 Nov 2013, 1:26 pm

I tried to get into UFC, but got bored of it.

If you've been brought up on boxing, it just stays with you.

A lot of the US people who are into it are young, and have not had a great era of glamourous heavyweight action to get hooked on.

Its a bit like banger racing. If you're a fan you just don't respect stock car racing.

by Mayweathers cellmate Sat 23 Nov 2013, 8:30 pm

Truth is the UFC fad has died. It used to make mainstream media when an 'event' was hosted over here, now we don't hear a bean.

UFC's is in terminal decline because it is run like WWE. It's all about short term entertainment and the management maintaining control over the fighters. Unlike your Floyd Mayweather's and Manny Pacquiao's in UFC you just get whatever chumps Dana White says are good. UFC is in effect a dictatorship compared to boxing's democracy.

What can boxing take from UFC? Not much. If Don King controlled the whole of Boxing it would be like UFC. Thank god he doesn't.

by Mayweathers cellmate Sat 23 Nov 2013, 8:41 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Boxing isn't laden with characters at the moment...........

If a Tyson came a long he'd re-invigorate the sport like he did in the late 80s when it had a bit of a decline post Hagler.........

Personalities not titles means ratings.........Or else Eusebio Pedroza would have been PPV........

Boxing will get more personalities these things are cyclical..........

If a Tyson esque act came along now it would get laughed out of town - it's not the 1980's anymore!!! The black shorts, the 'mean' look, the carefully scripted speeches that he'd always mess-up, it was straight out of a Rocky Movie. I much prefer Mayweather's more modern act.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 23 Nov 2013, 8:47 pm

Tyson wasn't an act though was he, it was more his in ring performances that got him noticed, an aggressive heavyweight with power in two hands would bring in mass interest.

by Mayweathers cellmate Sat 23 Nov 2013, 9:02 pm

I was talking about Tyson's supposed character, one that was obviously fabricated. His skills were undoubtedly good.

by Champagne_Socialist Sat 23 Nov 2013, 9:47 pm

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Truth is the UFC fad has died. It used to make mainstream media when an 'event' was hosted over here, now we don't hear a bean.

UFC's is in terminal decline because it is run like WWE. It's all about short term entertainment and the management maintaining control over the fighters. Unlike your Floyd Mayweather's and Manny Pacquiao's in UFC you just get whatever chumps Dana White says are good. UFC is in effect a dictatorship compared to boxing's democracy.

What can boxing take from UFC? Not much. If Don King controlled the whole of Boxing it would be like UFC. Thank god he doesn't.

Well the official PPV figures suggest the opposite. 10 of the last 15 highest PPV's have been UFC.

by Mayweathers cellmate Sun 24 Nov 2013, 12:46 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Truth is the UFC fad has died. It used to make mainstream media when an 'event' was hosted over here, now we don't hear a bean.

UFC's is in terminal decline because it is run like WWE. It's all about short term entertainment and the management maintaining control over the fighters. Unlike your Floyd Mayweather's and Manny Pacquiao's in UFC you just get whatever chumps Dana White says are good. UFC is in effect a dictatorship compared to boxing's democracy.

What can boxing take from UFC? Not much. If Don King controlled the whole of Boxing it would be like UFC. Thank god he doesn't.
Well the official PPV figures suggest the opposite. 10 of the last 15 highest PPV's have been UFC.

There are no official UFC PPV figures. Even their own exagerated ones suggest that no UFC PPV has had over 1million buys for 3 years. UFC total PPV's are down 30% over that time period. Whichever way you cut it UFC is in decline.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 24 Nov 2013, 12:50 pm

There are also no official boxing numbers.

by Mayweathers cellmate Sun 24 Nov 2013, 1:00 pm

Boxing PPV numbers are official. UFC's aren't because it's a privately owned company.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 24 Nov 2013, 1:06 pm

Where are these official numbers for Mayweather/Guerrero, the numbers are released by the promotional team not the channel.

by Mayweathers cellmate Sun 24 Nov 2013, 1:20 pm

The TV companies are public companies and therefore have to publish their PPV numbers by law. UFC doesn't because it's a privately owned.

I believe Mayweather v Guerro did 870k buys. Dissapointing yet still more than all but one UFC event over the last 3 years.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 24 Nov 2013, 1:27 pm

Could you give me a link to these official numbers because i've yet to find them.

by Mayweathers cellmate Sun 24 Nov 2013, 1:37 pm

I don't think Showtime publish their accounts on the internet. You could request a shareholder accounts release if you really wanted to.

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