Scotland v England, Murrayfield, Sat 8th Feb, 17:00

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start a thread to discuss next weeks game.

ENGLAND

England head coach Stuart Lancaster has kept faith with the side which lost to France and named an unchanged line-up for Saturday's match against Scotland.
Gloucester's Jonny May starts on the wing despite breaking his nose nine minutes into the 26-24 loss in Paris.
Courtney Lawes will be in the second row after his cheekbone bruising eased, while Danny Care and Owen Farrell form the half-back partnership.
"They're determined to put last week's result behind them," said Lancaster.
England will be hoping to avoid a third successive Test defeat, having lost to New Zealand in the autumn and France in the opening weekend of the Six Nations.
Scotland, however, were well beaten by Ireland on Sunday have not prevailed in the Calcutta Cup since their 15-9 win at Murrayfield in 2008.
"Scotland will be hugely motivated by their defeat in Dublin and, as we found two years ago, Murrayfield is a tough place to play," added Lancaster, who began his England reign with a 13-6 win against Scotland in 2012.
May is not expected to wear a protective face mask when he wins his third cap in Edinburgh.
Luther Burrell, who scored on his debut at the Stade de France, will make his second Test appearance at centre, while Jack Nowell takes up the right-wing spot for what will also be his second cap.
Wasps prop Matt Mullan will travel as the 24th man.

England XI v Scotland: Mike Brown (Harlequins, 22 caps), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 1 cap), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 1 cap), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 9 caps), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 2 caps), Owen Farrell (Saracens, 20 caps), Danny Care (Harlequins, 43 caps), Joe Marler (Harlequins, 16 caps), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 51 caps), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 44 caps), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 15 caps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 26 caps), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 24 caps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 21 caps), Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 6 caps)
Replacements: Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 11 caps), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks, 2 caps), Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby, 6 caps), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 16 caps), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, 13 caps), Brad Barritt (Saracens, 17 caps), Alex Goode (Saracens, 14 caps)

Scotland

Scots team:

1.grant
2.ford
3.low
4.swinson
5.hamilton
6.wilson
7.fusaro
8.denton
9.laidlaw
10.weir
11.lamont
12.scott
13.dunbar
14.seymor
15 hogg

Chequered and PSW, he still has that ridiculous haircut, although he has volunteered to have a high and tight (sucking up to SL here, I think) if The BT programme "Rugby Tonight" raise £50K for the Matt Hampson Foundation.

not alot of change for the team then, fusaro starts at 7, scott comes in at 12 and seymor on the wing

I Frak knew it. Ross Ford is starting

Tattie, I'm not sure just how match fit Scott is. However, he is a genuinely creative and exciting centre so a fit Scott should always start. Taylor might get the nod because he knows the English players and shouldn't be fazed by them, in a similar vein we may also see Cowan and Low, but wearing any numbers between 4 and 8, inclusive. You've got me started trying to think like Rab C. Now my head hurts, hence the bandage I suppose.

squad released on the sru twitter

1.grant
2.ford
3.low
4.swinson
5.hamilton
6.wilson
7.fusaro
8.denton
9.laidlaw
10.weir
11.lamont
12.scott
13.dunbar
14.seymor
15 hogg

I'm really not sure I follow the selection of Fusaro - SJ has concerns over is physicality at this level, so why give him his first cap against one of the most physical teams going?

Other main point of note is Gray jnr replacing Gray snr on the bench...

16.lawson
17.dickinson
18.cross
19.J gray
20.beattie
21.cusiter
22.taylor
23.evans

Brown dropped? Not often you see that

Interesting that Richie Gray has been dropped- didn't do a whole lot when he was on the pitch but Swinson and Hamilton both seemed to be auditioning for the role of the invisible man on Sunday...

Our front row subs are sh1te.

It's official......SJ is clueless.

I knew Jonny Gray was going to be a better player than his older brother, never thought it would be that early!

so kelly brown is out of the 23. who will be captain now?

disappointed ford is still in there - i know its not all his fault but he is alot to blame with the not being able to hook or throw very well

not sure what to make of dropping richie as would have liked him to start over hamilton because when they subbed last week someone else must have called the lineout and i actually thought it got a bit better

i will have to record this one because of work so at least i will have a fast forward button,, not optimistic now, and the pitch doesn't sound good

Fusaro inclusion is baffling, Barclay or Brown or even Holmes would make more sense.

You are basically playing with 7 forwards with him.

As an Ulster fan seeing guys like Luke Marshall and Tommy Seymour being selected to start test matches at the highest level is a really good advert for our Academy! Delighted for Tommy   

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Our front row subs are sh1te.

It's official......SJ is clueless.

You're right there, the subs for loosehead and hooker should be starting. Both in better form than the starters.

Just seen the team. Fecc me!!!
Hamilton and Ford keep their places. MacArthur not even in the 23. J Gray replaces his elder on the bench, which is a positive move. Hamilton and Ford must have been involved in some serious late night hanky panky with the SRU committee and still be in possession of incriminating polaroids, there is no other rational explanation.

On a slightly lighter note, the Scotland team announcement on twitter seems to be have gone done a strange route. On comment from a guy saying "it is basically my todo list" followed by the @bitextual handle. Which has led to some other interesting comments of a non rugby nature.

Scotland fans, you don't pull the wool over my eyes, I know all this doom and gloom talk is really to lull England in to a false sense of security............  

It's like a WUM team.

Lets watch another precession of poor lineouts.

Well i have to say from an England point of view...that side doesnt scare me.

England should have greater physicality in the pack...AND greater mobility.

Backs...well....anything could happen...

 

Wooden spoon please. No proper blind side, IMO not our best openside (Barclay), a hooker that can't hook or throw, a violent penalty magnet in the 2nd row, a winger who is as fast as a glacier and clearly no desire to sort out the shambles of Dublin.

England by 25

cakeordeath wrote:On a slightly lighter note, the Scotland team announcement on twitter seems to be have gone done a strange route. On comment from a guy saying "it is basically my todo list" followed by the @bitextual handle. Which has led to some other interesting comments of a non rugby nature.

Yeah quality. My rugby related tweet sandwiched in between a sausage appreciation party!   

Hmmm, the sooner Scott Quip King Johnson & his Ospreys mate Humpty Numpty leave the better.

beshocked wrote:If Brown does drop out, it's nice to see how Johnson the coach treats the player he picked as captain.

Kelly can always call Al Kellock on that score.

Well normally I have the up most respect for the Scottish team and really appreciate that dialogue between English and Scottish fans is mostly really good natured. So forgive me if, having seen that Scottish team the most constructive thing I can say is   

lostinwales wrote:Well normally I have the up most respect for the Scottish team and really appreciate that dialogue between English and Scottish fans is mostly really good natured. So forgive me if, having seen that Scottish team the most constructive thing I can say is   

Laugh away. We are an embarrasment. 

Well the team selection is a steaming pile of turd, but I am happy to see us go with a specialist openside and many congratulations to Chris Fusaro who has been knocking on the door for some time.

Brown should be outraged. Quite why he has been dropped and yet Ford and Hamilton retained is just plain wrong. He wasn't the worst forward by a long shot on Sunday and should have been shifted to his preferred position of blindside flanker. If Wilson is to start, it should be at number 8 - his preferred position.

I predict a disaster on Saturday.

Crikey. Main points for me:

Hamilton needs to have a huge (card clean) game to justify this start

That's a hugely inexperienced back-row but at least its balanced!

Our lack of depth at prop is a concern, but that's been clear for yonks - hence Nel and Blaaw coming in

Brown was warned about the competition at 7 - so while I feel for him, I'm pleased to see Fusaro given a shot

Richie Gray is unfortunate as I don't think he did anything wrong when he came on, but the coaches seem to have been extremely impressed by Jonny

Seymour and Scott coming in as expected, but Taylor and Evans on the bench seems a bit unbalanced to me. Tonks would have offered more cover

I am pleased for Fusaro. When they were both fit last year he did outplay Barclay and yet was overlooked. He has been close for a while now, so lets see what a genuine 7 can do. SJ in his video says that he is expecting a lot of ball on the ground and is looking for him to win it. The conditions and the pitch are going to be a factor and he does seem to have picked a team with that in mind.

So the mud lark Hamilton keeps his place and will be replaced by the equally solid and less flashy member of the Gray clan. Maybe his selection would have been different on a fast track, but that would be speculation.

I think just about everyone thinks Ford needed to be dropped, probably for his own sanity as well as ours! Here he is again however and McArthur gone instead, replaced by the bulkier Lawson, who does at least seem to know how to throw. I can only think that he does not feel that he can accommodate two relative lightweights against the English pack in a ward of attrition.

The backs look better, but doubts remain about Scott's fitness and as to whether they will get any ball. Seymour probably deserves his chance as well though, he looked decent in the summer and in the autumn and could get the chance now to put a marker down. Laidlaw needs a good game though or else we could be losing two captains in two games, which would be madness!

This may be horses for courses but it is still a way short of our best team. We will see more changes before this championship is done

The fact that we're so disappointed with this selection and the fact that everyone thinks we've not got a chance makes me think we might actually win this one - these seem to be the only times we actually beat England, or indeed anyone!

nickj wrote:That's a hugely inexperienced back-row but at least its balanced!

Only we could consider a backrow with Ryan Wilson playing blindside flanker as balanced!

There are two better blindside flankers available to Scott Johnson, Kelly Brown and Ali Strokosch. In my opinion both would do a better job than Ryan Wilson in that position. Were we choosing between the three on them for the number 8 jersey - I'd pick Ryan Wilson.

I don't mean to sound inflexible, but I'm fed up with Scotland coaches unnecessarily shoe horning square pegs into round holes.

RDW_Scotland wrote:The fact that we're so disappointed with this selection and the fact that everyone thinks we've not got a chance makes me think we might actually win this one - these seem to be the only times we actually beat England, or indeed anyone!

It's true. It reminds me of the bizarre selection of John Barclay at number 8 against Australia. Against all conventional wisdom and yet Scotland won (and Barclay had a decent game as we cleaned up on the floor).

Scotland 6 - 5 England

Pen: Laidlaw (2)

Try: Cole

MOTM: Ryan Wilson

The talk around Hamilton is always that he is picked as a lineout caller. Well on the back of last weekend that alone should've been enough to see him dropped. General optimism levels have fallen even further on seeing that team sheet, cheers SJ you clown!

+1

Completely embarrassing......verging on spiteful.

I would even have Hall there instead of Wilson, who is bollix BTW.

And this clown will be Director shortly!

  

Jeez! Big changes says Humphries- the culprits are still there and now we have Fusaro to add his diminutive presence to a back row that got driven off every loose ball last week! The selectors et al are on a different planet. Barclay , Grant and Rennie must have really peed off someone , Denton stands off most rucks and Wilson hasn't got the bulk or power to compensate for Fusaros lack of it. Surely Beattie should have been in there somewhere. Lessons learnt from last week- pull the other one.

If England cannot beat that Scotland side......

Is this just mind games from Johnson? On Saturday will he suddenly wheel out a decent backrow, a hooker who can actually throw and Maitland will be revealed to be fit?

I am willing to give the benefit to Ryan Wilson, who has continuously impressed for Glasgow as a heads up rugby player. Yes KB and AS may well be better defensively but they don't offer anything like the same threat going forward, which ultimately is where we need to be going. He is not a show pony number 8, who can't play a full 80 mins in the way that Morgan and Vinapolo are, albeit very effective whilst they are on. He has a very good work rate and on that basis should be able to play 8 or 6. Other than the specialist 7's, most modern day back rows can do both positions. He gives some pretty good lineout options as well if they can manage to hit him.

Ryan Wilson is a very good player and is at the beginning of his international career. He is definitely someone from last weekend who does deserve a second chance, unlike a few others who have been lashing it up for years!

BigGee wrote:I am willing to give the benefit to Ryan Wilson, who has continuously impressed for Glasgow as a heads up rugby player. Yes KB and AS may well be better defensively but they don't offer anything like the same threat going forward, which ultimately is where we need to be going. He is not a show pony number 8, who can't play a full 80 mins in the way that Morgan and Vinapolo are, albeit very effective whilst they are on. He has a very good work rate and on that basis should be able to play 8 or 6. Other than the specialist 7's, most modern day back rows can do both positions. He gives some pretty good lineout options as well if they can manage to hit him.

Ryan Wilson is a very good player and is at the beginning of his international career. He is definitely someone from last weekend who does deserve a second chance, unlike a few others who have been lashing it up for years!

Well let's just hope we don't have much defending to do on Saturday, which I'm sure will be the case....

I don't mean to do down Wilson at all. He's an excellent prospect at number 8, a nice balance of ball carrying and general workrate. He can clearly "do a job" at 6, but I'd rather have a specialist personally, particularly given that we have two very good and experienced specialists fit and available (including the captain....).

Had SJ dropped Denton for Wilson, I'd have had more sympathy for the selection.

From a Scotland point of view it is disappointing to see players keep their place after some seriously below-par performances. Take note Ross Ford and Jim Hamilton. I can't say I was particularly enamered with Swinson's performance either.

There seems to be mixed opinions on Fusaro. I can't say i've seen anything of him what's he been like for Glasgow?

At the moment it looks like light rain so we can assume that will become hurricane force by Saturday. If Scotland manage to take out May or Nowell then I worry that we'll see any tries. We should have the pack to secure a boring win but i've seen Scotland come good many times before!

Our forward bench is very strong though with heavy carriers right through and some good fringe defenders in Attwood.

The worry with Fusaro is, and always will be, his size. He's very small for an international back row forward.

All I'd say is that Glasgow recently played Toulon in the HC, and Fusaro was outstanding. Toulon are not a small pack, in fact they are bigger than any pack in the 6 Nations I'd imagine. Whilst I think there are valid questions about the impact he'll have, I firmly believe he's deserved the chance to show what he can do. I don't think this is a premature promotion.

Good luck to him I say, and well done.

BigGee wrote:I am willing to give the benefit to Ryan Wilson, who has continuously impressed for Glasgow as a heads up rugby player. Yes KB and AS may well be better defensively but they don't offer anything like the same threat going forward, which ultimately is where we need to be going. He is not a show pony number 8, who can't play a full 80 mins in the way that Morgan and Vinapolo are, albeit very effective whilst they are on. He has a very good work rate and on that basis should be able to play 8 or 6. Other than the specialist 7's, most modern day back rows can do both positions. He gives some pretty good lineout options as well if they can manage to hit him.

Ryan Wilson is a very good player and is at the beginning of his international career. He is definitely someone from last weekend who does deserve a second chance, unlike a few others who have been lashing it up for years!

Whenever i've caught him play Wilson has looked pretty good at 8. The clear choice was to move Brown to 6 and Wilson to 8 with Denton on the bench. Johnson hasn't a clue about man management that's for sure. Destroying Brown's confidence is not the way to get the best from him. I think he could've gone really well against us there, with several of his Sarries colleagues in the opposing pack.

Bit harsh on Morgan and BV, neither I would say are 'show-ponies'. They're both hard carrying 8's and BV's work-rate has gone through the roof. It's questionable either could go the full 80 but neither have been given the chance. It also doesn't seem to be that necessary with either one covering on the bench.

OK so is Martin now no longer the least popular Manager/Coach of a national side with the surname Johnson?

Fusaro is definitely going to be the quickest forward on the pitch by a long way. Especially since Richie 'Usain' Vernon isn't playing.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Fusaro is definitely going to be the quickest forward on the pitch by a long way.  Especially since Richie 'Usain' Vernon isn't playing.

Hasn't Vernon been converted to centre?!

BigGee the thing is you'll need someone who can handle Billy and Morgan defensively. Scotland have left out the best backrower for that job. You need to stop England's momentum. The way to do that is take down England's most dangerous running threats.

Chjw131 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Fusaro is definitely going to be the quickest forward on the pitch by a long way.  Especially since Richie 'Usain' Vernon isn't playing.

Hasn't Vernon been converted to centre?!

Wing I think. He's even faster than Sean Lamont so I'm told.

There's an awful lot of negativity on these boards, so I think the time is right for me to don my spandex Mr Motivator pants and my dayglo-yellow headband and start pumping you folks up!

"Everybody say Yeah"

There is absolutely no point in picking players for their power when the muddy Passchendaele-esque pitch will just give way. A heavy player simply hits the ground harder when he falls (that's science, by the way), so it makes more sense to pick lighter forwards who are quicker around the park, less likely to be tired out by the surface, and who play with more guile and finesse. Fusaro is that. He is a complete b****rd to play against, he will not take a step back, and he is our best attacking openside (other than perhaps Rennie, who would need a quart of morphine and some PCP to play in this match). He scores actual tries for Glasgow. Like, real tries.

The time for Fozzy is now.

"Everybody say Yeah!"

The same goes for Ryan Wilson. He has more flair in his little finger than Kelly "quick, I'd better pass the ball" Brown and Al "I'd rather stab the ball than carry it" Strokosch. I'm happy with Wilson.

"Everybody say Yeah!!"

Ford is a class act, a true expression of amatuer ethos in a professional world. He knows that, in the grand scheme of things, whether we beat Ireland wouldn't make a whole lot of difference to many people. He knew that if he tried to throw the ball to Galway, and tried to hook the ball forwards, he would lull the journos, the fans, and the pundits into a sense of Dante-inspired dispair. All this, before the real test against England. Make no mistake, brothers, Fordy has been saving himself for this match. Since 2009.

"Everybody say Yeah!!!"

Scott will mesmerise the Torygraph readers with his gliding runs, betwixt Twelvetrees and the other one, over Care, through Goode, and then straight past the lumbering bulk of Burrell. There will be headlines, my friends, all of them variations on the "Great Scott!" theme, but not as imaginative.

"Everybody say YEAH!!!"

And then we come to Jonny Gray. Just as the Baptist preceeded the arrival of the Almighty, so did Richie preceed the birth of a true legend-in-the-making in Jonny Gray. No frippery, no glitzy runs followed by inauspicious tumbles like a Sitka Spruce chopped at the base, no hair dye. What Jonny has is sheer Scottish grit. The kind that stormed the heights at Quebec, held the line at Balaclava and charged full pelt at El Alamein. This is the moment you will see a future Lions captain and tour winner take the field to the quiet Henley-accented quips of "Oh, he's rather a big chap.". Then he's going to kill.

"Everybody say HELL YEAH!!!"

I'm going to leave you with this thought:
"Fitness is a way of life"

Lets be honest we all know one this one is going to go Scotland were awful last week and England started poorly but put in a very encouraging performance despite losing.

Scotland will raise their game against the ‘Old Enemy’ and look like a different team England will struggle through out the game, but end up winning by less than 5pts.   

Good lord. Coming quite late to the party but it appears that the Scott Johnson selection clown car continues to rattle around the bends. I am not quite as down about this team as other posters seem to be but it's the inconsistencies in selection that continue to bewilder me.

1. SJ acknowledges that we're getting caned at the breakdown and so brings in a specialist openside. However, whether Scotland stands a chance in this game will depend in huge part whether they can stop England's power runners at source - Hartley, Launchbury, Wood, Vunipola and Morgan who did huge damage against the French. Apparently SJ believes that this can be done without a specialist blindside.

2. There are three No 8s in the squad. With Wilson and Denton regularly playing 8 for their clubs, what the smeg is Johnny Beattie doing on the bench? It should be Strokosch or Brown there to give us a Plan B if we're getting hulksmashed in the loose - both of those players have earned their stripes as daisycutters of big men - Stroker in particular.

3. You play one game and then your captain is cut from the matchday 22. Spare me the old scrote about 'captaincy units'. You're got one captain. You've just dropped him because you've decided that in the role you specifically selected him for, he's not the best available at it. That's correct but that was correct before the tournament even started. That's just bad planning, Scott Johnson. Plain and simple.

4. Not putting Jon Welsh on the bench is a mistake, although Cross has scrummaged well against the English in the past.

There are upsides, however:

- Tommy Seymour is the correct replacement for Maitland. He's had plenty recovery time now and is a rifleman, without a shadow of a doubt. He knows Hogg's game backwards as he plays with him every week.
- Jonny Gray on the bench is exciting and I'm thrilled for him. Plenty of England fans won't have seen him play before and they're going to get a shock. Clearly picking Gray who is massively mobile is a foil for Hamilton who is about as mobile as a life sized Lego re-enactment of Mount Rushmore.
- The honest truth about Ford has to be that you cannot get anyone else up to speed with a 15 lineout calls in 4 days. That's it. He can thank Oprah is still there and needs a Herculean performance to justify why he has any future as an international in his current position.
- The Return of the King - even Matt Scott at 80% is arguably more creative than any other option we have at 100%. Scott and Dunbar is a combination that we could use for the next decade.
- SJ could have panicked and dropped Weir. He didn't. Has Weir ever played two games for Scotland in a row?
- Fozzy and Robshaw had an enormous tussle when Glasgow played Quins in the pre-season - friends of mine were there and said that it was impossible to choose between them. Again, I think that a lot of posters on these threads won't have seen him play before. If he can get his tail up, he's a very, very effective openside.

So Brown gets given the captaincy, played out of position and dropped. Ford isn't skipper, plays a shocker in his natural position and gets to stay...

Not being funny but has Scotty been on the herbs?