Scotland v England, Murrayfield, Sat 8th Feb, 17:00

by yappysnap Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:32 am

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start a thread to discuss next weeks game.

ENGLAND

England head coach Stuart Lancaster has kept faith with the side which lost to France and named an unchanged line-up for Saturday's match against Scotland.
Gloucester's Jonny May starts on the wing despite breaking his nose nine minutes into the 26-24 loss in Paris.
Courtney Lawes will be in the second row after his cheekbone bruising eased, while Danny Care and Owen Farrell form the half-back partnership.
"They're determined to put last week's result behind them," said Lancaster.
England will be hoping to avoid a third successive Test defeat, having lost to New Zealand in the autumn and France in the opening weekend of the Six Nations.
Scotland, however, were well beaten by Ireland on Sunday have not prevailed in the Calcutta Cup since their 15-9 win at Murrayfield in 2008.
"Scotland will be hugely motivated by their defeat in Dublin and, as we found two years ago, Murrayfield is a tough place to play," added Lancaster, who began his England reign with a 13-6 win against Scotland in 2012.
May is not expected to wear a protective face mask when he wins his third cap in Edinburgh.
Luther Burrell, who scored on his debut at the Stade de France, will make his second Test appearance at centre, while Jack Nowell takes up the right-wing spot for what will also be his second cap.
Wasps prop Matt Mullan will travel as the 24th man.

England XI v Scotland: Mike Brown (Harlequins, 22 caps), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 1 cap), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 1 cap), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 9 caps), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 2 caps), Owen Farrell (Saracens, 20 caps), Danny Care (Harlequins, 43 caps), Joe Marler (Harlequins, 16 caps), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 51 caps), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 44 caps), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 15 caps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 26 caps), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 24 caps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 21 caps), Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 6 caps)
Replacements: Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 11 caps), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks, 2 caps), Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby, 6 caps), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 16 caps), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, 13 caps), Brad Barritt (Saracens, 17 caps), Alex Goode (Saracens, 14 caps)

Scotland

Scots team:

1.grant
2.ford
3.low
4.swinson
5.hamilton
6.wilson
7.fusaro
8.denton
9.laidlaw
10.weir
11.lamont
12.scott
13.dunbar
14.seymor
15 hogg

by majesticimperialman Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:50 pm

Tom Youngs throwing into the line out, is absolutely terrible.

Who is third in line at Hooker for England? Is it Rob Webber, if it is surely he needs to be given a chance in the next game. In place of Tom Youngs.

by TJ Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:50 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Scotland, you have all the components for a team, but you need to play your 16, not Ford, and Cusiter and a 6,7,8! Good breakdown work in places, but with no lineout and a pitch that annihalated the scrum as a weapon, it's not enough

Can we have Lancaster please? He seems to have moulded a team. Many England fans did not want him and he has been to Scotland. I always thought he was good. To me he was the main difference here. England played like a team, the where well organised and took the right options. Scotland do not look like a team and in the first half especially did not contest the breakdown as they should have done nor did they defend aggressively.

by stub Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:51 pm

Ireland (and Wales) are going to be tough. Good that we've got them at home.

by stub Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:51 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Tom Youngs throwing into the line out, is absolutely terrible.

Who is third in line at Hooker for England? Is it Rob Webber, if it is surely he needs to be given a chance in the next game. In place of Tom Youngs.

+1

by ChequeredJersey Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:52 pm

Scotland were poor. We were sloppy but fine. Need to stop popping the ball back in rucks, it's not helpful!

by nathan Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:53 pm

stub wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Tom Youngs throwing into the line out, is absolutely terrible.

Who is third in line at Hooker for England? Is it Rob Webber, if it is surely he needs to be given a chance in the next game. In place of Tom Youngs.

+1

The thing is, it hasn't always been. He needs to go back to the Tigers and build his confidence again. We all know he can throw.

by ChequeredJersey Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:53 pm

TJ wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Scotland, you have all the components for a team, but you need to play your 16, not Ford, and Cusiter and a 6,7,8! Good breakdown work in places, but with no lineout and a pitch that annihalated the scrum as a weapon, it's not enough

Can we have Lancaster please? He seems to have moulded a team. Many England fans did not want him and he has been to Scotland. I always thought he was good. To me he was the main difference here. England played like a team, the where well organised and took the right options. Scotland do not look like a team and in the first half especially did not contest the breakdown as they should have done nor did they defend aggressively.

You're getting Cotter, I assume he will help

by quinsforever Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:54 pm

i think the ball was like a greased pig today. am actually fairly impressed at the handling.

by Manu's Boxing Coach Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:54 pm

Our back options on the bench are atrocious, we have the slowest set of reserve backs in world rugby. Dickson is slow, Barritt is slow, Goode is slow. They literally offer nothing that would scare a defence and Lancaster's insistence on using them is really detrimental to the team. They contributed to a poor last 20 from England, we really should have scored another but were too inaccurate.

We have got to do something about T. Youngs, his throwing just isn't functioning in this England team.

by Nachos Jones Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:54 pm

Tom Youngs is not an international quality hooker, that is clear. He is, however, very quick and excellent at the breakdown. A great impact player. I made a joke a few weeks ago that he could be an excellent impact centre but I actually believe that.

by quinsforever Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:56 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:Tom Youngs is not an international quality hooker, that is clear. He is, however, very quick and excellent at the breakdown. A great impact player. I made a joke a few weeks ago that he could be an excellent impact centre but I actually believe that.

i tell you what, i would rather see tom youngs come on than barritt in the centres. is an awesome late game impact runner. maybe barritt can throw the ball in?

by stub Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:57 pm

nathan wrote:
stub wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Tom Youngs throwing into the line out, is absolutely terrible.

Who is third in line at Hooker for England? Is it Rob Webber, if it is surely he needs to be given a chance in the next game. In place of Tom Youngs.

+1

The thing is, it hasn't always been. He needs to go back to the Tigers and build his confidence again. We all know he can throw.

Yes, fair enough. I'm sure we'll see him back with better confidence.

by TJ Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:57 pm

Scotland

by yappysnap Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:58 pm

So to be honest there were murmurs that after these two games SL would review the team and make any changes ready for Ireland in a couple of weeks.

I do not think the starting line up needs changing at all form wise. But if we're selecting a team based on the opposition I would toy with one of the locks being benched to bring Attwood in against the powerful Irish pack.

The bench needs a massive over haul though. Youngs, Barritt and Goode all need the boot. Youngs has been woeful. Barritt and Goode are not the way forward and while only average as starters they are terrible bench players. We should have Watson and Ford ready to take the bench with 40+mins of England game time under their belts but poor selection has ruined that, time to get them in now and hope it isn't decisive.

But the bench needs a massive over haul.

by Nachos Jones Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:59 pm

quinsforever wrote:
Nachos Jones wrote:Tom Youngs is not an international quality hooker, that is clear. He is, however, very quick and excellent at the breakdown. A great impact player. I made a joke a few weeks ago that he could be an excellent impact centre but I actually believe that.
i tell you what, i would rather see tom youngs come on than barritt in the centres. is an awesome late game impact runner. maybe barritt can throw the ball in?

I know its a very dumb idea that I have but I really think that it would work. His work in and around the breakdown when players are tired is quite impressive. He always breaks the gainline. I would have him in the squad purely based on the impact he can make.

by Scrumpy Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:59 pm

Scotland were so bad I think relegation has to be introduced to give the likes of Romania and Georgia a crack at getting into the 6 nations.

Scotland are going backwards

by nathan Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:01 pm

yappysnap wrote:So to be honest there were murmurs that after these two games SL would review the team and make any changes ready for Ireland in a couple of weeks.

I do not think the starting line up needs changing at all form wise. But if we're selecting a team based on the opposition I would toy with one of the locks being benched to bring Attwood in against the powerful Irish pack.

The bench needs a massive over haul though. Youngs, Barritt and Goode all need the boot. Youngs has been woeful. Barritt and Goode are not the way forward and while only average as starters they are terrible bench players. We should have Watson and Ford ready to take the bench with 40+mins of England game time under their belts but poor selection has ruined that, time to get them in now and hope it isn't decisive.

But the bench needs a massive over haul.

Youngs has only been woeful at lineout time, he's been fine elsewhere. He carries better than hartley, today the scrum was improved when he came on too. The only thing Hartley is better at is at lineout time

I think we should get rid of Dickson, for me he's poo

by yappysnap Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:02 pm

Could Tom Youngs play 6? He can tackle, run and loves contact plus he seems mentally aggressive. He is actually a 6.

by TJ Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:03 pm

27 missed tackles! 27!!! thats a stat to be ashamed of

Only Hogg, Seymour and Denton looked like they had any appetite. The team needed to fight for the ball and for each other and simply did not

by yappysnap Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:05 pm

nathan wrote:
yappysnap wrote:So to be honest there were murmurs that after these two games SL would review the team and make any changes ready for Ireland in a couple of weeks.

I do not think the starting line up needs changing at all form wise. But if we're selecting a team based on the opposition I would toy with one of the locks being benched to bring Attwood in against the powerful Irish pack.

The bench needs a massive over haul though. Youngs, Barritt and Goode all need the boot. Youngs has been woeful. Barritt and Goode are not the way forward and while only average as starters they are terrible bench players. We should have Watson and Ford ready to take the bench with 40+mins of England game time under their belts but poor selection has ruined that, time to get them in now and hope it isn't decisive.

But the bench needs a massive over haul.

Youngs has only been woeful at lineout time, he's been fine elsewhere. He carries better than hartley, today the scrum was improved when he came on too. The only thing Hartley is better at is at lineout time.

No he carries like a back, Hartley doesn't. Youngs is very visible but that doesn't make him better. Hartley does a lot in tight which England need, he also offloads and passes a lot when he gets the ball rather then die with it.

I wouldn't say the scrum was improved that much. It was still a mess. Also Scotland made changes and Attwood+Mako were on, difficult to just say the difference was down to Youngs.

by stub Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:05 pm

TJ wrote:Scotland

Yum!

by Cumbrian Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:05 pm

This is conjecture, but my mate has just told me that despite all of the rain the groundsmen had the sprinklers on the pitch for a long time yesterday and this morning. He says he read it in the paper, can anyone else confirm this? Frak frustrating if it is true.

by Nachos Jones Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:05 pm

yappysnap wrote:Could Tom Youngs play 6? He can tackle, run and loves contact plus he seems mentally aggressive. He is actually a 6.

That's actually a really good idea, certainly one worth looking at if you were in the England management.

by Scrumpy Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:06 pm

Scott Johnson on the beeb red button, jeez his one miserable Scott!

by englandglory4ever Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:09 pm

Youngs needs to be let go. Obviously not on form. Webber must be given a chance.

Pitch was a disgrace. Totally unacceptable for elite world teams to be playing on that quagmire.

by HammerofThunor Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:11 pm

And the SRU know this and they're putting a new pitch in.

by nathan Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:11 pm

yappysnap wrote:
nathan wrote:
yappysnap wrote:So to be honest there were murmurs that after these two games SL would review the team and make any changes ready for Ireland in a couple of weeks.

I do not think the starting line up needs changing at all form wise. But if we're selecting a team based on the opposition I would toy with one of the locks being benched to bring Attwood in against the powerful Irish pack.

The bench needs a massive over haul though. Youngs, Barritt and Goode all need the boot. Youngs has been woeful. Barritt and Goode are not the way forward and while only average as starters they are terrible bench players. We should have Watson and Ford ready to take the bench with 40+mins of England game time under their belts but poor selection has ruined that, time to get them in now and hope it isn't decisive.

But the bench needs a massive over haul.

Youngs has only been woeful at lineout time, he's been fine elsewhere. He carries better than hartley, today the scrum was improved when he came on too. The only thing Hartley is better at is at lineout time.

No he carries like a back, Hartley doesn't. Youngs is very visible but that doesn't make him better. Hartley does a lot in tight which England need, he also offloads and passes a lot when he gets the ball rather then die with it.

I wouldn't say the scrum was improved that much. It was still a mess. Also Scotland made changes and Attwood+Mako were on, difficult to just say the difference was down to Youngs.

The scrum clearly did improve as it was moving forward which i don't think it did whilst Hartley was on. Youngs came on before those two entered the field.

As i said above, T. Youngs needs to be released to build his confidence again. he still has a place in this england team, just needs to get his confidence back and practice more with lawes and co.

Carries like a back? look i know it fashionable to say everything about him is rubbish but saying that is just a load of rubbish.

by yappysnap Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:11 pm

Will it be ready for next year?

by englandglory4ever Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:14 pm

Youngs has shown he is not up to test rugby. Great club player but that's it.

by HammerofThunor Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:14 pm

Yes

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/14/02/04/new-hybrid-grass-pitch-be-constructed-murrayfield

by Manu's Boxing Coach Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:18 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:Youngs has shown he is not up to test rugby. Great club player but that's it.

At the moment undoubtedly his throwing is not up to scratch but considering his lack of experience in the position significant improvement is surely possible? I wouldn't write him off yet.

by mystiroakey Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:25 pm

Youngs has been part of beating every team in world rugby( well the real teams) bar SA which he gained a draw.

Not up to international rugby. Yeah what ever... Lol

He isn't our best choice at the moment, but only due to one part of his game.. Good impact sub, and when he comes on he doesn't have to through the line out..

by flankertye Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:25 pm

Scotland were poor, conditions weren't great. As usual englands forwards dominant, apart from a few glimpses backs were pretty poor.
I know England have a lot of injuries, but THE BENCH OFFERS NOTHING.

by flankertye Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:33 pm

Okay, I was harsh on Englands backs. Twelvetrees seems pretty poor in attack.

by nathan Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:35 pm

flankertye wrote:Scotland were poor, conditions weren't great. As usual englands forwards dominant, apart from a few glimpses backs were pretty poor.
I know England have a lot of injuries, but THE BENCH OFFERS NOTHING.

were they really that poor though? taking into consideration the poor pitch i thought they did arlight. Shown more than last week.

by yappysnap Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:42 pm

Yea I thought Twelvetrees did well with what he was given, made some tough yards and cut out the horrible passes. Also kicked pretty well for territory. Perhaps he's growing into the shirt rather then being an instant test veteran?

by Cumbrian Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:45 pm

I like the lines that Burrell runs, he seems to be able to spot a gap and steam through it. I don't think Twelvetrees was that bad, he looked capable of making a break on occasion.

I am going to be controversial here, I liked the spike from Farrell and Brown. I don't want to sound paranoid, but everybody hates us and loves to see us lose anyway so I like to see a guy with a bit of vinegar. We had honest losers for years and people laughed at us anyway, I want to see our players get into their hostile little faces (to borrow a quote).

by mystiroakey Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:46 pm

nothing poor about it. its just a typical fan reaction to england.

And its pretty insulting to Scotland as well.

by englandglory4ever Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:47 pm

Youngs came on against NZ, France and now Scotland and played poorly in all 3 games. He's had his chance and should step aside for someone else. Preferably Webber. SL will be bottling it if he doesn't drop him for Ireland
It could be much closer against Ireland and another performance like he has been doing could lose it for England.

by lostinwales Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:49 pm

flankertye wrote:Okay, I was harsh on Englands backs. Twelvetrees seems pretty poor in attack.

I thought he was pretty good actually- didnt make many yards but looked dangerous enough given the conditions. Defense was good and most importantly passing was much improved. I think I only saw him take one kick but it did go a bloody long way.

I think the pitch had a lot to do with it but overall, apart from flashes from the usual suspects (Brown, BV, Nowell, Burrell and May) I thought England seldom got out of 2nd gear. Having said that my man of the match was Lawes. Fantastic in the line out and everywhere in a solid pack performance.

BV is so strong its ridiculous. He got caught one time when making a pick up of the back of the scrum, but just shrugged off the tackler and made the pass.

Agree with all the comments on the bench players, sigh....

As for Scotland- Least said really - but can we borrow Hamilton please. I'd love it if we could play against him every week....

by flankertye Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:50 pm

Twelvetrees did carry well, kicked very well and made his tackles. But I expected more attacking play.

by **RDW** Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:54 pm

Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.

I'm off to get drunk.

We were lucky to get 0.

by Tiger/Chief Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:55 pm

I think actually England's Bench today offered exactly what was needed!

Eventually Jack Nowell will be a great Option at 23 covering Wing,Full Back and I personally think 13. Also Ben Youngs will come back in at 22 when his form returns. The only reason I say Nowell to 23 is that I see both Yarde and Wade as superior wingers but not superior players!

by Poorfour Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:55 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:Youngs came on against NZ, France and now Scotland and played poorly in all 3 games. He's had his chance and should step aside for someone else. Preferably Webber. SL will be bottling it if he doesn't drop him for Ireland
It could be much closer against Ireland and another performance like he has been doing could lose it for England.

That's not fair. Youngs' all round game was pretty good in all three games, but he's clearly not currently able to throw accurately from the bench. Therefore he's either a starter or not in the squad. Right now, Hartley is good enough that he should be starting, so England need a safer option on the bench. Youngs should be told that he has a role to play in the squad but needs to fix his throw or raise his game to displace Hartley, and Webber should come in as backup.

by Poorfour Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:56 pm

First posted on Comeallwithin, but here's what I think:

It's coming together for England.

If Danny continues in this vein he should be nailed on as starter. He looks increasingly like the playmaker that the England backline has missed.

Burrell looks like at worst a real challenger at 13 and quite possibly the answer at 12 - the sooner we can try him with Tuilagi, the better. That leaves Barritt or 36 as backup, which is not a bad choice to have.

If so we have a 1st XV / Backup line-up that could look like this:

15. Brown - Foden
14. Yarde - Nowell
13. Tuilagi - Barritt
12. Burrell (to be proven) - Twelvetrees
11. May - Wade (I'd have May ahead of Wade for now)
10. Farrell - Ford (to be proven)
9. Care - Youngs

1. Marler - M Vunipola (realistically, we can't count on Corbs. But if he's back, so much the better)
2. Hartley - erm. Webber? (Shame Buchanan got injured)
3. Cole - Wilson
4. Launchbury - Attwood
5. Lawes - Parling
6. Wood - Croft
7. Robshaw - erm, Wallace? Maybe Haskell
8. B Vunipola - Morgan

Read the second column carefully. Imagine if that took the field. Assuming the players in the 2 or3 uncertain positions come through, I'd back that combination against Argentina, Italy, Scotland or France (on a bad day).

For the starters, the starting pack picks itself. In the backs, DC needs to maintain his form, and Lancaster needs to find the best permutation in the centres. There are options on the wing. It would be chequered heresy to suggest that 15 is even remotely in doubt, but there are good backups available.

Residual concerns:
1) Can England put the same attacking game together against a faster and more intense team like Ireland?
2) Can they at last beat Wales?
3) Can they tighten up the error count and make sure they close their chances (tip: get the ball to Brown or Burrell) and stop letting teams off the hook (tip: don't have T Youngs as your hooker sub)
4) Is Cole vulnerable? He is less solid in the scrum since the engagement changed. Can Wig bring through a backup who gives an escape route? Alternatively, can Marler be developed into a scrummaging weapon? (Corbs is one, but isn't always available. Mako is boring in and will get found out - that needs to be fixed).

by tigertattie Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:56 pm

This is getting silly(er)

27 missed tackles is a joke. An absolute joke.

The only player on that pitch even trying was Sean lamont but his pace had totally gone.

And no one can say Denton had a good game. He was pants. Every time he got the ball he ran into the first English player he could see. Never offloaded. Never broke the gain line.

Next game ford, Hamilton, Denton need dropped. Brown, Beattie and fusaro start with Wilson on the bench. Swinson and Gray snr start with Gray jnr on the bench.

Laidlaw needs to quicken his service or he'll be for the hook too.

by doctor_grey Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:58 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:Youngs came on against NZ, France and now Scotland and played poorly in all 3 games. He's had his chance and should step aside for someone else. Preferably Webber. SL will be bottling it if he doesn't drop him for Ireland
It could be much closer against Ireland and another performance like he has been doing could lose it for England.

OK, I didn't see either match today because my son was in a wrestling tournament which ended about an hour ago. I had to keep up on the iPhone 6 Nations app. I will watch once IPlayer has the match up. About Tom Youngs, he missed lineout throws again? If so, then playing him against Ireland could do him a lot of harm. It is likely the match will be close and we don't want him coming up to his first lineout throw being self-conscious. It would be a sure way to lose the match and also lose him as a player. However, if he was good enough to tour with the Lions, he can play for England. But he needs to fix part of his game asap. Unfortunately, that can't be done overnight. So we need to try another hooker. Besides, as England continue to build for the future, we need to see who will be playing if either Youngs or Hartley get hurt.

by Bristolian Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:59 pm

Think people are being too harsh on England. Given the (unacceptably poor) state of the pitch, Scotland's spoiling tactics and a ref who let them do it I think that was a pretty good effort.

Not like Moore to get distracted by try scoring, I thought Billy V should've been Man of the Match. Brown was very good though. May showed us what we missed last week for 72 minutes. Nowell still isn't ready, but is talented. Lawes was brilliant, and 36 improved from last week. Barritt and Goode. No thanks.

About Brown and Farrell's attitude, I agree with Cumbrian, we get booed everywhere anyway (even booing of our fans singing Swing Low, bit football for my taste) so why not have some venom? As long as it is controlled I have no issue with it.

I do wonder if people let club affiliations colour their views. Youngs was rubbish. Same as last week he threw away an attacking lineout 5 metres from the line. Not only his lineout, but no way did he carry better than Hartley. So what if he's a Lion? In '97 Nigel Redman was a Lion, at the age of 83. Tom Court is a Lion. Shane Williams, smoking in the Japanese 2nd division is a Lion. Glorified Barbarians.

Don't know what to say about Scotland. Denton was really good (why sub him? Almost as bad as Care last week), Laidlaw tried hard and Hamilton was spikey. Otherwise, they failed to score but were flattered but the scoreline.

by yappysnap Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:59 pm

Cumbrian wrote:I like the lines that Burrell runs, he seems to be able to spot a gap and steam through it. I don't think Twelvetrees was that bad, he looked capable of making a break on occasion.

I am going to be controversial here, I liked the spike from Farrell and Brown. I don't want to sound paranoid, but everybody hates us and loves to see us lose anyway so I like to see a guy with a bit of vinegar. We had honest losers for years and people laughed at us anyway, I want to see our players get into their hostile little faces (to borrow a quote).

Agree with both points there.

I see nothing wrong with a little bit of barb from Farrel, it just seems that lazy pundits like to go on about it ad nauseum. What's laughable is Moore winging about it! Fecking hypocrite! We've had limp players for years, I want players that are happy to get in the opposition faces and enjoy winning, they'll want to keep feeling that then!

What's painful to watch is guys like Phillips doing it while their team is getting pummelled around them. If England were losing and Faz was busy looking for a cheap dig then it'd be an issue.

by Cumbrian Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:01 pm

tigertattie wrote:This is getting silly(er)

27 missed tackles is a joke. An absolute joke.

The only player on that pitch even trying was Sean lamont but his pace had totally gone.

And no one can say Denton had a good game. He was pants. Every time he got the ball he ran into the first English player he could see. Never offloaded. Never broke the gain line.

Next game ford, Hamilton, Denton need dropped. Brown, Beattie and fusaro start with Wilson on the bench. Swinson and Gray snr start with Gray jnr on the bench.

Laidlaw needs to quicken his service or he'll be for the hook too.

As a supporter of the opposition I thought that Denton did pretty well, he seemed a real workhorse and generally made ground in the carry. He was one of the fw players I was apprehensive about carrying the ball against us.

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