Who cares about an Irish Grand Slam 2014

by Scratch Thu 13 Feb 2014, 4:03 am

First topic message reminder :

Having beaten the Champions 2 years in a row, and this year in a manner that sets Wales back further than they have been since 2009, I am quietly confident Ireland will win a Grand Slam this year and certain they will win the tournament. While most of the chat has been about Wales defense, England being on target for yet another Grand Slam, Scotland dissembling and France being, well, French, Ireland have been quietly going about their business, almost beating NZ and now dismantling Wales. This defeat is proof perfect that Gatland's Lions ambitions have directly affected Wales progress.

In Schmidt Ireland have found a tactician as much as a coach who clearly has his players full support and belief, and his game plan was so beautifully executed by a side that looks more cohesive and hungry than any other side in the competition. Unlike Wales, who have no game plan but a style, Ireland prove they can be versatile and i don't think i have ever seen a side play to their strengths and expose the opposition's weaknesses as much as they did last week.

The key to victory is POC and Sexton. The former is the foundation of a dogged tight five and Sexton is fast becoming a world class 10. I expect Ireland and England to be a humdinger of a forward battle, if Ireland try and maul England they may well come up 2nd best, but i expect Schmidt to try and expose the English wings as he did against Wales and the Irish set piece will more than manage the English. It will be close but as long as Sexton functions and marshals the game as he has done so far, i just don't think the English will live with them Twixenham or not.

As for France, if Ireland beat England their momentum and confidence will be unstoppable. In Fofana France have the standout back in Europe but i think Ireland's intelligence and leadership is so strong that they will again edge it in a tight game. The French pack is prone to being snuffed out if they do not get their way and Ireland - who have the most cohesive back division - will clearly not make the same mistakes England did.

So it's a huge call in a year when nobody believed a Slam was on but for me Ireland are now the team to beat. Some farewell for BOD.

by KiaRose Thu 13 Feb 2014, 11:27 pm

It is 42 years - yep, that's right FORTY-TWO years since Ireland won both their away matches in Paris and London. 1972 - I remember it well.

Some of youse lot weren't even born then.

Some of us can remember the gut-wrenching disappointment when we didn't win a slam that year (and some of us still remember why that was).

WE WILL NOT BE COUNTING ANY CHICKENS UNTIL AFTER THE GAME IN PARIS.

by SecretFly Thu 13 Feb 2014, 11:34 pm

Oh God, the black & white history putting even more pressure on us. Thanks for that and bloody 1972, Kia!

Where was I in 1972?? Was I born? Em, I think that was the year my older brother told me cruely that John Wayne had died (I was a big fan of his). I then nearly died from mourning so he came clean and told me it was a joke. That's 1972. And that was in colour!

by dragonbreath Thu 13 Feb 2014, 11:40 pm

Ireland will lose against both France and England. England will win the 6 Nations with 4 wins probably on points difference from France. Ireland will finish with 3 wins, Wales on 2, with Italy on 1 and poor old Scotland with 0

by Scratch Thu 13 Feb 2014, 11:44 pm

dragonbreath wrote:Ireland will lose against both France and England. England will win the 6 Nations with 4 wins probably on points difference from France. Ireland will finish with 3 wins, Wales on 2, with Italy on 1 and poor old Scotland with 0

England won't win. Ireland will. (I know)

And you rprediction does not compute, 15 games you have 14 results. Who is drawing their game?

by dragonbreath Thu 13 Feb 2014, 11:57 pm

Scratch wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:Ireland will lose against both France and England. England will win the 6 Nations with 4 wins probably on points difference from France. Ireland will finish with 3 wins, Wales on 2, with Italy on 1 and poor old Scotland with 0

England won't win. Ireland will. (I know)

And you rprediction does not compute, 15 games you have 14 results. Who is drawing their game?

I was hoping nobody would notice that. Reboot. French GS, England on 4, etc etc

by Feckless Rogue Fri 14 Feb 2014, 12:36 am

We won a Slam in 2009. So I don't we're due another for about another 200 years or so. With our points difference advantage and Italy at home to come (I think we'll win that comfortably), we then only have to beat France and we have a good chance of winning the Championship.

Can't see us beating England in London, especially if it's wet, which it probably will be.

by Scratch Fri 14 Feb 2014, 5:35 am

Ireland are miles ahead of any other side. Slam for sure.

by RugbyFan182 Fri 14 Feb 2014, 10:59 am

Scratch, I'd love to know where your getting your confidence from bottle it and sell it. You would make a fortune. If Ireland beat England maybe, just maybe...

by Cyril Fri 14 Feb 2014, 11:18 am

The phony war is truly underway.

Plenty of folk being confident on behalf of the Irish (but not the Irish themselves).

by SecretFly Fri 14 Feb 2014, 11:27 am

We're guarded, Cyril. And honestly, I think both sets of fans are.
We both know we've shown potential to have a good 6N. We both have a relatively good set of results to show it. But this is the proving ground coming up. This is when one of the sides realises how good or bad they really are. This is a Back-to-the-Drawing-Board kinda game for one side or the other.

Losing in England won't be a disaster for Ireland though - as long as it isn't a rout. And that's to be decided.

by **rodders** Fri 14 Feb 2014, 11:33 am

Cyril wrote:The phony war is truly underway.

Plenty of folk being confident on behalf of the Irish (but not the Irish themselves).

The last time the Irish were confident it almost bankrupted western capitalism. Best keeping the powder dry this time.

by SecretFly Fri 14 Feb 2014, 11:37 am

rodders wrote:
Cyril wrote:The phony war is truly underway.

Plenty of folk being confident on behalf of the Irish (but not the Irish themselves).

The last time the Irish were confident it almost bankrupted western capitalism. Best keeping the powder dry this time.

But lots of people had lots of fun before we did. I say this is the beginning of the new age - a new Tiger Cub is being born. Hold on to your seats everyone - we'll financially torch the entire planet at the end of our next bout of over-spend! Yahoo

by Cyril Fri 14 Feb 2014, 11:39 am

It all started to go wrong with four Eurovision wins in five years.

by san Fri 14 Feb 2014, 11:57 am

Johnny Logan furious

by wrfc1980 Fri 14 Feb 2014, 12:20 pm

I know the reaction from the celts on these boaards if England had won 2 games and an englishman started a similar thread. The world 'arrogant' would have been used countless times. Its funny that other nations can have confidence (and quite righly!) but English fans can't.

by GunsGerms Fri 14 Feb 2014, 12:55 pm

wrfc1980 wrote:I know the reaction from the celts on these boaards if England had won 2 games and an englishman started a similar thread. The world 'arrogant' would have been used countless times. Its funny that other nations can have confidence (and quite righly!) but English fans can't.

Think the op is Welsh no? The championship is very much a four horse race as it was in the beginning. England are favourites v Ireland and Wales probably favourites v France in Cardiff. Therefore the odds are on all top teams having two wins after next weekend.

by SecretFly Fri 14 Feb 2014, 1:21 pm

wrfc1980 wrote:I know the reaction from the celts on these boaards if England had won 2 games and an englishman started a similar thread. The world 'arrogant' would have been used countless times. Its funny that other nations can have confidence (and quite righly!) but English fans can't.

Good try wrfc. What about the England v Ireland thread? That started off with a bit of a funny bang.
The English were quite confident with home advantage and playing well etc etc (and rightly so.) Fine. No problems.
The Irish were quite confident too, playing well and two wins. Over-confidence alert Big Time broke out!!!!! Wink

All good clean fun of course - but people in certain places can get touchy if the Irish say they're confident.... it's almost an insult to the opponents to suggest such a thing........ Wink

By the way...we're not 'Celts'...we're Irish. The Welsh speak for themselves and play for themselves, as do the Scots. We're Irish...we do our own talking and our own playing.

by whocares Fri 14 Feb 2014, 1:32 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:We won a Slam in 2009. So I don't we're due another for about another 200 years or so. With our points difference advantage and Italy at home to come (I think we'll win that comfortably), we then only have to beat France and we have a good chance of winning the Championship.

Can't see us beating England in London, especially if it's wet, which it probably will be.

if the rain keep pourring as it has been in the last few weeks, wet will be an understatement. better prepare your speedos.

by Scratch Fri 14 Feb 2014, 6:51 pm

wrfc1980 wrote:I know the reaction from the celts on these boaards if England had won 2 games and an englishman started a similar thread. The world 'arrogant' would have been used countless times. Its funny that other nations can have confidence (and quite righly!) but English fans can't.

Damn right arrogant angles

Point is, england have the T shirt printed most years after 2 wins and then, ahem, choke by the end - countless 2nds in 6 Nations but no Slam since 03!

Irleand are completely the opposite. Quietly hoping but they aren't gobbling off about it. If they beat England at twickenham swimming pool, the Slam is theirs. No joke.

by Engine#4 Fri 14 Feb 2014, 7:36 pm

Scratch wrote:
wrfc1980 wrote:I know the reaction from the celts on these boaards if England had won 2 games and an englishman started a similar thread. The world 'arrogant' would have been used countless times. Its funny that other nations can have confidence (and quite righly!) but English fans can't.

Damn right arrogant angles

Point is, england have the T shirt printed most years after 2 wins and then, ahem, choke by the end - countless 2nds in 6 Nations but no Slam since 03!

Irleand are completely the opposite. Quietly hoping but they aren't gobbling off about it. If they beat England at twickenham swimming pool, the Slam is theirs. No joke.

POC was a champion swimmer as a teenager, it's in the bag lads!

by Sgt_Pooly Fri 14 Feb 2014, 9:48 pm

I can honestly only see Ireland getting one more win from the remaining 3 games.

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 14 Feb 2014, 10:02 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I can honestly only see Ireland getting one more win from the remaining 3 games.

Jays I dunno if we can even get that Italy are playing well...

by Sgt_Pooly Fri 14 Feb 2014, 10:05 pm

Nah, you'll hump Italy.

If Ireland do win a GS they'll deserve it. Doesn't get tougher than England & France away.

by majesticimperialman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 4:22 am

Ireland do not like winning Grand Slams. the last one was in 2009 i think. The one before that was 64/65 years ago. So i do not think Ireland will win a Grand Slam this year. Even though it is BOD'S FINAL SIX NATION'S THIS YEAR.

by Nachos Jones Sat 15 Feb 2014, 7:35 am

I said at the start of this that there will be no GS this year and I firmly believe that. Cant see Ireland beating England at Twickers but I hope Very Happy

by Scratch Sat 15 Feb 2014, 7:38 am

FFS everyone, I KNOW they are going to win a GS. Get you money down now!

by asoreleftshoulder Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:44 am

Scratch wrote:FFS everyone, I KNOW they are going to win a GS. Get you money down now!

Way ahead of you,,the odds were much better a few weeks ago.20/1 on Betfair.

by The Saint Sat 15 Feb 2014, 1:09 pm

No chance. They'll lose to France and England. Schmidtball (stolen from SA) won't work against Les Bleus.

by Thomond Sat 15 Feb 2014, 1:13 pm

Saying the words grand slam in Ireland is sacriliegious. You should be saying ten Our Fathers and Five Hail Mary's to repent.

by **Notch** Sat 15 Feb 2014, 2:07 pm

The Saint wrote:Schmidtball (stolen from SA)

by asoreleftshoulder Sat 15 Feb 2014, 2:32 pm

The Saint wrote:No chance. They'll lose to France and England. Schmidtball (stolen from SA) won't work against Les Bleus.

Ah the oracle has spoken we're a shoe in now.

by The Saint Sat 15 Feb 2014, 2:45 pm

Notch wrote:
The Saint wrote:Schmidtball (stolen from SA)

by **Notch** Sat 15 Feb 2014, 3:58 pm

Seriously though, I think our style is very different to SA. South Africa have only recently started to contest the breakdown well, for years they didn't jackal at the breakdown they smashed and counter-rucked. They used power over guile. Remember Jake White? He once said “The only fetcher I need is my son when I ask him to fetch me a beer from the fridge.” Their style of play was based around the fact that their forwards were bigger and meaner than everyone else. Gert Smal was forwards coach under him with South Africa and under Kidney with Ireland and Smal totally failed with Ireland.

Irelands forwards are not bigger and meaner than other packs- they are light, skilful and very technically good in terms of body position and support play. Irelands style of play has always been based around technical breakdown play often exploiting aspects of the rules such as getting hands on the ball to force the referee to ping the opponents for holding on, or to hold up the ball carrier in a choke tackle to force the referee to restart the game with a scrum to the defending side. We've had to do this because we don't have the power athletes of South Africa, so we need to prioritise technique over power.

I think a big part of the reason the Kidney regime ultimately failed was Gert Smal was actually too South African in his outlook and having a forwards coach weaned on the idea of bigger is better didn't suit our light and mobile pack. We used the pick and go around the ruck as an attacking tactic a lot, but we didn't have enough ball carriers to gain momentum. Instead of clever lineout moves, our maul was your basic arm-wrestle- everything we tried to do relied on power and we didn't have a big enough pack of forwards to pull it off. We attacked where the defensive maul was strongest instead of trying to identify areas where they are weak. If he was still coaching the Saffer pack all those tactics would have worked.

by SecretFly Sat 15 Feb 2014, 4:01 pm

If people think that game against Wales is trademark SchmidtBall... they'll get a rude awakening in the next few years.

by SecretFly Sat 15 Feb 2014, 4:09 pm

Actually..LancasterBall is quite similar to SchmidtBall Leinster style. Wink

He must be a fan Wink

by Scratch Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:05 pm

Lancasterball is no different from RowleyBall or anyEnglandcoachexceptSirClive(hatetoadmititbuttrue)Ball

Big pack, dominate the set piece, kick for territory, some guys behind to run/tackle.

When England have centre combos they are devastating. But that is so rare, I mean since the 90s I only think Carling and Guscott and Tindall and Greenwood spring to mind.

by SecretFly Sun 16 Feb 2014, 10:50 am

Scratch wrote:Lancasterball is no different from RowleyBall or anyEnglandcoachexceptSirClive(hatetoadmititbuttrue)Ball

Big pack, dominate the set piece, kick for territory, some guys behind to run/tackle.

When England have centre combos they are devastating. But that is so rare, I mean since the 90s I only think Carling and Guscott and Tindall and Greenwood spring to mind.

Oh I see it as been quite a bit more dynamic than that.

by doctor_grey Sun 16 Feb 2014, 11:10 am

Scratch wrote:Lancasterball is no different from RowleyBall or anyEnglandcoachexceptSirClive(hatetoadmititbuttrue)Ball

Big pack, dominate the set piece, kick for territory, some guys behind to run/tackle.

When England have centre combos they are devastating. But that is so rare, I mean since the 90s I only think Carling and Guscott and Tindall and Greenwood spring to mind.

Tindall is still available for selection...............

by overlordofthewest Sun 16 Feb 2014, 1:06 pm

Ireland must be pretty much favourites for the championship but the slam is a big ask. I can see England winning this weekend by a small margin and wales beating France by a similar low score. Two wins each and Ireland with a much bigger points difference over England, France and Wales puts them in a good position for the title.

by alive555 Sun 16 Feb 2014, 3:33 pm

Dont kid yourselves , England are still favourites this weekend AND for the championship.

Ireland remaining game are

England away (Eng fav)
Italy home (Ireland fav)
France away (France fav)

England remaining games are

Ireland home (Eng fav)
Wales home (Eng fav)
Italy away (Eng fav)

by Scratch Sun 16 Feb 2014, 9:08 pm

sadly no dan cole now, it's ireland's to lose

by Scratch Mon 17 Feb 2014, 2:14 am

Jonny is calling this the pivotal game in England's build up to RWC……huge pressure on the English.

by The Saint Mon 17 Feb 2014, 3:41 pm

The kicking game and breakdown strategy we seen from Ireland has occassionally been used by SA and France. It worked a charm against Wales, as it did for SA in the autumn. I don't see why Schmidt has been getting so much credit. I'd rather heap praise on the Irish players who's execution was almost perfect for the full 80. And if that is all 'Schmidtball' has to offer then I might skip watching the next Ireland game. Give me Gatlandball any day.

by Metal Tiger Mon 17 Feb 2014, 4:27 pm

RugbyFan182 wrote: Scratch, I'd love to know where your getting your confidence from bottle it and sell it. You would make a fortune. If Ireland beat England maybe, just maybe...

Even if you lose to England I still think this will likely be an Irish Championship year... Points difference is key at the moment. But the French pose something of a banana skin for any team.

by SecretFly Mon 17 Feb 2014, 4:34 pm

The Saint wrote:The kicking game and breakdown strategy we seen from Ireland has occassionally been used by SA and France. It worked a charm against Wales, as it did for SA in the autumn. I don't see why Schmidt has been getting so much credit. I'd rather heap praise on the Irish players who's execution was almost perfect for the full 80. And if that is all 'Schmidtball' has to offer then I might skip watching the next Ireland game. Give me Gatlandball any day.

AnyBall is always an amalgamation of other AnyBall theories that were in operation over the years. Again, if you don't know Schmidt and think Wales is the only variety he does then so be it.
BTW, GatlandBall isn't even Gatlandball. Big physical wings finding mismatches at pace ain't exactly his creation, he's just modified it to suit Wales.

by sportform Mon 17 Feb 2014, 4:40 pm

If Ireland and France can come through this week's games with victories then the Six Nations could be on for a thrilling finale with Ireland playing France in the final game of the competition on 15th March. That said, England will be difficult to beat this week and Twickenham could be as far as the Irish Grand Slam hopes get this year.

by Scratch Mon 17 Feb 2014, 4:44 pm

sportform wrote:If Ireland and France can come through this week's games with victories then the Six Nations could be on for a thrilling finale with Ireland playing France in the final game of the competition on 15th March. That said, England will be difficult to beat this week and Twickenham could be as far as the Irish Grand Slam hopes get this year.

No chance, Slam is on!! England are still figuring out their backs. Sexton, POC, BOD all leaders and reflective of Englnad when they had leaders all over the park……Schimdt will have a plan and Ireland will execute it

by SecretFly Mon 17 Feb 2014, 4:46 pm

sportform wrote:If Ireland and France can come through this week's games with victories then the Six Nations could be on for a thrilling finale with Ireland playing France in the final game of the competition on 15th March. That said, England will be difficult to beat this week and Twickenham could be as far as the Irish Grand Slam hopes get this year.

I think we're all more realistically thinking Championship rather than GS.
Afterall, Schmidt's first year - lots to get done, lot of players to become familiar with on a one to one level, and both England and France are at home.
Yes, the GS is theoretically still on for two sides but Ireland will be just trying to stay in the running (Schmidt's target is publically top two). He might be secretly thinking more than that but we're realistic enough to know it's a big effort beating England AND France away from home in one year.

by The Saint Mon 17 Feb 2014, 5:57 pm

Ireland are certainly a good bet for winning the championship after their two opening games, though they won't win it playing Schmidtball!

by SecretFly Mon 17 Feb 2014, 6:06 pm

I almost kinda hope he sticks to SchmidtBall Plan A Sub Section 3.4 now and win with it just to wind-up Saint. Wink

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